View Full Version : Is this dumb: A 40 degree bag plus polyester blanket?
newToThrough
05-16-2015, 04:38
I'm just trying to save myself money on a 20degree bag, so I'm wondering if anyone thinks it's a safe idea to use a backpacking 40degree bag PLUS a polyester military-style "woobie" or blanket. This thing here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USGI-Military-USMC-Woodland-Digital-MARPAT-PONCHO-LINER-Woobie-Blanket-NEW-/390867972622 It's strictly a money thing, I have no philosophical arguments in my favor. I do sleep pretty warm and my hope is to purchase a decent 1 person backpacking tent, although I haven't found one yet and might do something else if it's cheaper. I plan to start my hike the second or third week in June if that helps. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Starchild
05-16-2015, 06:16
It will add warmth and weight and cost, I don't know how much of either it will add.
You might consider a fleece blanket, I used one during the summer months on my thru, NY to NH section (no sleeping bag). Much cheaper, may be lighter IDK.
You might also consider the cost and weight of a low end new synthetic bag of desired temperature rating compared to your 40F. This is especially true if your 40F bag is not all that light to start with.
Finally know what you can do if it gets too cold, what you can use and what you have. In shelters I occasionally wrapped my tent around my 18F bag (nighttime temps in single digits), made a huge difference and kept snow off of it. When it was getting chilly in the summer heading north and just had the fleece I got under the bathtub floor in my tent. And spooning can be fun depending on who is next to you.
bemental
05-16-2015, 07:52
I use the exact poncho liner in the same manner you described. Can't say for sure what 'degrees' it adds, but it sure does make a difference.
I'd give it at least a 10 degree rating, in a sleeping bag.
garlic08
05-16-2015, 08:51
Some people have a problem layering in or over a sleeping bag. If you cram too much in there, the insulation gets compressed, you can't move around and you end up colder. If you throw something too heavy over the bag, the bag insulation can get compressed and might not breath correctly and get damp. Loft and ventilation are critical for any insulation system. Some people make it work just fine though.
As with anything new you bring into the backcountry, it's best to test it first and/or have a bail-out plan if it doesn't work.
bemental
05-16-2015, 08:58
Some people have a problem layering in or over a sleeping bag. If you cram too much in there, the insulation gets compressed, you can't move around and you end up colder. If you throw something too heavy over the bag, the bag insulation can get compressed and might not breath correctly and get damp. Loft and ventilation are critical for any insulation system. Some people make it work just fine though.
As with anything new you bring into the backcountry, it's best to test it first and/or have a bail-out plan if it doesn't work.
Definitely. For my setup I wouldn't put much else in other than my poncho liner, although now that we keep talking about it, it does run a bit heavy... might have to do some research and get me an actual silk liner :-D
WalkingStick75
05-16-2015, 09:09
Might consider using an emergency blanket inside your bag. They are lightweight and cheap. While hiking the International AT a few years ago my 40 degree bag was not keeping me warm at night so I covered my bag at night with my rain jacket which proved to be sufficient to keep me warm.
Like Bemental said, the poncho liner inside the bag will take a 40degree bag down to about 30, plus there will less space for your body to heat. I've done it.
terryg49
05-16-2015, 11:08
Check on ebay for a warmer sleeping bag. I found a very nice 20 deg Big Agnes Mistic bag and pad for less than $100. Very warm, roomy and about 3 pounds.
Silk liners are nice but kinda pricey (at least for me) ..
so instead I got some fleece fabric for 12 bucks and had my mom make me a liner based upon my bag's shape...
her fifteen minutes using sewing machine and my 12 bucks have done well the last three years...
newToThrough
05-17-2015, 03:37
Thanks for all the replies but I guess I was really wondering whether I'm dumb from a temperature standpoint. Meaning: do you think I'll be warm enough on the CT starting mid-June with the 40 degree synthetic bag and the poncho liner?
garlic08
05-17-2015, 08:41
Does "warm enough" mean surviving the trip or being nice and comfortable every night? Has your bag been tested to EN 13573 standards? Do you have the experience to keep your bag and liner dry in all conditions? Will you be well hydrated, and well fed every night, and not exhausted and depleted? Will you have the endurance to continue hiking down to a lower elevation if needed? Will you pay attention to weather forecasts and "bail out" if needed? There are too many variables for someone else to answer your question.
Personally I would not hike the high country in CO without a 20F bag tested to industry standards, but that does not mean you can't make your system work. It sounds like others have.
Soggybottom
05-17-2015, 08:44
My thoughts about 40 degree nights or cooler with dampness in the air you will be cold. I take a hat, gloves, socks, baselayers top and bottom to sleep in. I would recommend the new Sierra backcountry bed sleeping bag. You can use it for really warm nights down to 20. Also get yourself a x-therm sleeping pad the added heat bouncing back is awesome. Plus you can slide the pad into the bottom of the bag so it doesn't allow you to lose the pad in the middle of the night. This doesn't address money concerns but to do that become a member at Rei. They offer 20-25 percent off coupons at least once a year. I always get something nice with that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
San Juan Ron
05-17-2015, 09:44
Last year, I switched from a 20 degree bag to a 32 degree bag (Western Mountaineering SummerLite @ 1 lb 3 oz). I was never cold in my 20 degree bag on the CT over a 5 year period as I just put on my long johns, coat, hat and gloves on colder nights and be more than warm enough.
To save weight and backpack space, I switched to the 32 degree bag last year. There were a couple nights that I woke up a bit chilly from 4-5 AM even with the long johns, hat, gloves, etc.
As with anything on the CT, it's about trade-offs. This year, I will stick with the 32 degree bag as the weight reduction and smaller bag size is more important than being a bit chilly on a couple mornings. The more compact sleeping bag has allowed me to reduce backpack size and save more weight. But, everyone is different and I am typically a warm sleeper. My wife would NEVER hit the CT with a 32 degree bag.
I have no idea how much the polyester blanket would reduce that temp rating from your 40 degree bag,
Ron
Of all the things I personally wouldn't skimp on, a warm, comfortable night's sleep is it. Scrimp, save, be nice to Grandma, whatever it takes to get a good bag.
StubbleJumper
05-17-2015, 16:37
If you have a 40-degree bag, you'll definitely want some sort of supplementary insulation. A 40-degree bag will probably not be comfortable at 40-degrees, but likely will only be good down to something like 48-degrees. It will go below 48 on most nights in Colorado (the first couple days out of Denver are warmer). In fact you should plan for night time temps to go down to the low-30s on a couple of occasions.
If you have enough clothing, add your polyester blanket and use the hot water bottle trick, you can definitely extend your temperature range but I'm not sure how you'd do at 35 degrees. You might wake up at 4am and need to break camp and start hiking just to warm up.
newToThrough
05-18-2015, 04:21
If you have a 40-degree bag, you'll definitely want some sort of supplementary insulation. A 40-degree bag will probably not be comfortable at 40-degrees, but likely will only be good down to something like 48-degrees. It will go below 48 on most nights in Colorado (the first couple days out of Denver are warmer). In fact you should plan for night time temps to go down to the low-30s on a couple of occasions. If you have enough clothing, add your polyester blanket and use the hot water bottle trick, you can definitely extend your temperature range but I'm not sure how you'd do at 35 degrees. You might wake up at 4am and need to break camp and start hiking just to warm up. Thanks. Yours and a couple other replies were very helpful. It sounds like the general feeling is that my idea is borderline dumb. So I'll look into my options, maybe hope for something on local craigslist. I really appreciate the responses even if it didn't work out how I'd hoped.
newToThrough
05-18-2015, 04:23
My thoughts about 40 degree nights or cooler with dampness in the air you will be cold. I take a hat, gloves, socks, baselayers top and bottom to sleep in. I would recommend the new Sierra backcountry bed sleeping bag. You can use it for really warm nights down to 20. Also get yourself a x-therm sleeping pad the added heat bouncing back is awesome. Plus you can slide the pad into the bottom of the bag so it doesn't allow you to lose the pad in the middle of the night. This doesn't address money concerns but to do that become a member at Rei. They offer 20-25 percent off coupons at least once a year. I always get something nice with that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That bag costs more than my entire gear budget!
A good 20 degree bag would be ideal, but assuming it really is a 40 degree bag and you have some camping skills and a decent shelter your plan won't be a safety concern. I've used the sleeping bag plus poncho liner idea too, and the poncho liner added significant warmth. If there's enough room in the bag I'd put the liner inside, if there isn't, over the top. I sewed my poncho liner into a sleeping bag configuration so I could "double bag."
Sleeping in a warm balaclava, long underwear and warm socks and also your warm jacket (if that works for you) will all add significant warmth. If you get cold the hot water bottle idea will allow you to sleep but I'd expect to sleep warm most nights without it.
Again, get a 20 degree bag if you can afford it, but your plan will work if necessary.
a sleeping bag is not where you want to save on cost. A warm comfy nites sleep is crucial to a successful hike!
newToThrough
05-23-2015, 05:56
Sleeping in a warm balaclava, long underwear and warm socks and also your warm jacket (if that works for you) will all add significant warmth. If you get cold the hot water bottle idea will allow you to sleep but I'd expect to sleep warm most nights without it. Do you bring a balaclava on summer hikes? I wouldn't think to bring a balaclava if the temperature is over zero Farenheit, usually. For head warmth, I was just going to bring one of those headband/earmuff thingies. And as far as a warm jacket goes, I was planning on a fleece vest, fleece zip-up, and windbreaker/rain jacket. Am I doing this wrong? I only have about $250 to spend on gear, including sleeping, tent, rain clothes, and warm jacket. I think I have almost everything else, including a food budget for the trip.
MuddyWaters
05-23-2015, 08:29
Do you bring a balaclava on summer hikes? I wouldn't think to bring a balaclava if the temperature is over zero Farenheit, usually. For head warmth, I was just going to bring one of those headband/earmuff thingies. And as far as a warm jacket goes, I was planning on a fleece vest, fleece zip-up, and windbreaker/rain jacket. Am I doing this wrong? I only have about $250 to spend on gear, including sleeping, tent, rain clothes, and warm jacket. I think I have almost everything else, including a food budget for the trip.
When you are cold, wet, and borderline hypothermic, you will want WAY more insulation than you think you need right now.
If your insulation is marginal, it can take hours to warm up when you are cold and chilled.
If your insulation is a bit overkill, it is much much quicker.
I have a down hood I use with my quilt, only usually when temps are below 30. But when you are cold and chilled at 45F, its a furnace for my head. Worth the weight even if I dont think I need it.
Do you bring a balaclava on summer hikes? I wouldn't think to bring a balaclava if the temperature is over zero Farenheit, usually. For head warmth, I was just going to bring one of those headband/earmuff thingies. And as far as a warm jacket goes, I was planning on a fleece vest, fleece zip-up, and windbreaker/rain jacket. Am I doing this wrong? I only have about $250 to spend on gear, including sleeping, tent, rain clothes, and warm jacket. I think I have almost everything else, including a food budget for the trip.
A lightweight balaclava is part of my sleep system. A balaclava might be the most warmth for the weight of any item you can a carry because it can cover your head and neck and part of your face depending on how you wear it. I wear it for sleeping on cold nights and have worn it countless times on cold mornings or cool evenings, especially if I've been wet all day. If hiking in the warmest part of summer at low elevation I might not take it, otherwise it's a standard piece of gear for me.
Starting in CT in June you should be fine warmth-wise with what you're planning to bring especially if you add a balaclava. If you're going all the way to the end you'll have time to tweak your system. Although I think Grandma Gatewood is not the example for wise gear choices, she did show that you don't need fancy and expensive backpacking gear.
newToThrough
05-26-2015, 05:43
A lightweight balaclava is part of my sleep system. Thanks to you and everyone again for the great replies. What would you (and the previous poster) think about a light fleece balaclava? Do you think that would cover the bases both while sleeping and in any cold weather that might arise? It's not like a mountaineering wool balaclava but I do have one and it sounds like it might do the trick? Or would a wool cap (tuke in canadian-speak) be better, even though it doesn't cover the face?
That bag costs more than my entire gear budget!
"That bag", if treated right, will last for decades. The cost per night becomes insignificant. The benefits of sleeping well are HUGE. Add a good, comfortable, light, WARM pad underneath and you'll be good to go in most summer conditions. Proper sleeping attire is a given in any sleep system.
I bought a quality down bag from REI in the mid-70s. I used that bag at elevation in Colorado on several trips over the years. My granddaughter will be using it for the second year in the Grayson Highlands next month. Quality down bags are very inexpensive over the long haul.
Pay me know or pay me later. Buy quality once.
Wayne
What would you (and the previous poster) think about a light fleece balaclava?
A light fleece balaclava is what I carry.
"That bag", if treated right, will last for decades. The cost per night becomes insignificant. The benefits of sleeping well are HUGE. Add a good, comfortable, light, WARM pad underneath and you'll be good to go in most summer conditions. Proper sleeping attire is a given in any sleep system.
I bought a quality down bag from REI in the mid-70s. I used that bag at elevation in Colorado on several trips over the years. My granddaughter will be using it for the second year in the Grayson Highlands next month. Quality down bags are very inexpensive over the long haul.
Pay me know or pay me later. Buy quality once.
Wayne
Oh! Oh! Oh! Over here. Pick me !!! Pick me !!! LONG WINDED ANSWER ALERT "Why, back in my day..."
Yes. What Wayne said. And others. Beg, borrow, or steal your way into a good bag rated lower than expected temps.
On the side of Pike's peak, I got caught out in a sudden below zero howling wind rain one night. Yes, it was my fault. Whatever.
I had a Marmot Always Summer. It's rated at 45 (I think). But with the tent(maybe an old Kelty ? ) shoving my legs inside my backpack, long johns and a fleece tobaggin/stocking cap, and socks on my hands, it went okay. It sure wasn't fun though.
I did the exact same trip with my Western Mountaineering bag (Extreme Lite Ultralite rated at 20) bought used here for the same price as the Marmot was new and it was colder temps that night (below 0) but I slept good.
I use a silk liner. Sometimes, when I can remember it. Not so much for warmth. (It does help) but keeping from stinking that bag up so bad that even I don't want to get in it at night. The liner will air out while breaking/setting up camp quicker than a bag.
Then there was this last time I was coming out of Canada in December. I was in my pickup. It was nasty cold. I couldn't get a hotel due to the holidays and got caught between motels all being full. I pulled that Phantom 0 out made by Mountain Hardware. (also bought here used), climbed in the back seat of the truck and went right to sleep. A midnight bathroom run was freezing immediately on the ground it was so cold. Took the money not spent on a motel room and bought a Soto Micro regulator stove a couple of days later though.
I have somehow managed to freeze my ass off all over this world. Listen to these guys. Buy quality. Don't want to dick with getting goose down wet? Look at a Cat's Meow or similar. But until I trust the synthetics to do what that Western mountaineering bag does, I'll just keep double bagging mine to keep it dry. If the Phantom wasn't so damn bulky and heavier, I'd carry it all the time.
If the bag you get is quality, in good shape.( most of them have a no question asked warranty) it'll bring a premium price back if you want to sell it later. It's an investment.
Ditto on the pad also. The only engine that is making heat is you laying there. No air conditioning, space heater, or fireplace. You. And that handful of nuts you ate and a water bottle full of hot water either curled under your toes or football clutched into your gut right before bed. With heat being sucked away from the biggest surface touching which is underneath you, a pad isn't about the soft comfort taking away from the cowboy hard ass mentality, it's the insulation. Get that potato chip bag crinkling one I got. I swear if it would only pop one damn hole it would be outta here! it just won't though. Quality. And hatefulness. Just keeps on tormenting me. But that's better than listening to somebody shivering and tossing and turning in a tent close to you at night all night long. Hard to sleep that way. Spooning would help probably but sometimes it just doesn't seem as fun as it sounds...
Told ja it was long winded. With the high waters here, I wimped out of my overnighter after running into the biggest batch of mosquitos ever seen this evening and am back in the cabin drinking beer and living vicariously through all of ya'll.
Rolex
Rolex reinforced one way to get quality gear below retail: buy low mileage gear at forums like Whiteblaze and others. Or be patient and wait for really good sales, either at stores or online. It happens.
Good luck.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
newToThrough
05-27-2015, 22:02
Yes. What Wayne said. And others. Beg, borrow, or steal your way into a good bag rated lower than expected temps. I appreciate the feedback. But what people don't seem to be hearing is that I can't afford a better pack. My hike starts in a few weeks (or never) and sure I'm checking local craigslist but unless I luck out and find what you're recommending, I've got to go with what I can get my hands on or just not-go. Although I have no desire to freeze to death, it's certainly preferable to begging, borrowing, or stealing. What I'm here to determine is how likely that is and whether that likelyhood is high enough to cancel the through-hike and feel like a loser for the rest of my life. Now that I write that, I realize that maybe that, too, is worse then freezing to death. But not worse than getting frostbite and having to live with it, I suppose.
hikeandbike5
05-27-2015, 22:31
Since no one else has said it, yes, it is dumb.
Mr. Bumpy
05-27-2015, 22:41
I got this for my son as a summer/fall bag. It is part of a 4 piece system and is rather big and roomy, but is compact. It is probably a thinsulate type of material. It is better than a cheap bag should be. If I were in a tent wearing a base layer and toboggan I wouldn't be afraid to take it into the 20's. With a fleece or other layer you could take it rather low. They are available from multiple sources and I remember getting mine for under $30
http://www.amazon.com/Military-Outdoor-Clothing-Previously-Repellent/dp/B00GCHKTLA/ref=pd_sim_468_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1X1RRXZRNCMAW468T1SK
I appreciate the feedback. But what people don't seem to be hearing is that I can't afford a better pack. My hike starts in a few weeks (or never) and sure I'm checking local craigslist but unless I luck out and find what you're recommending, I've got to go with what I can get my hands on or just not-go. Although I have no desire to freeze to death, it's certainly preferable to begging, borrowing, or stealing. What I'm here to determine is how likely that is and whether that likelyhood is high enough to cancel the through-hike and feel like a loser for the rest of my life. Now that I write that, I realize that maybe that, too, is worse then freezing to death. But not worse than getting frostbite and having to live with it, I suppose.
I hear you. Been there. Done that. Still blaming myself and saying, "Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda."
Several folks on other forums have said good things about inexpensive 30 degree down bags from Walmart. Check it out.
By all means, "Just do it!!!"
Good luck and all the best to you.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
I started in Denver with a 20 deg quilt. The first week of so I thought that it was too much. However, as I got into the higher sections and colder night time temps, I was appreciative that I had it.
newToThrough
06-01-2015, 04:19
Since no one else has said it, yes, it is dumb. :) Thank you for your honesty. Saves time.
newToThrough
06-01-2015, 04:20
I started in Denver with a 20 deg quilt. The first week of so I thought that it was too much. However, as I got into the higher sections and colder night time temps, I was appreciative that I had it. That's good to know. Exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, in addition to lots of other thorough replies, which I appreciate. Okay, I'll keep scouring craigslist and hope for the best.
newToThrough
06-01-2015, 06:18
I hear you. Been there. Done that. Still blaming myself and saying, "Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda." By all means, "Just do it!!!" Thanks for the encouragement! I'm pretty well set on doing it. At this point, the question is whether I'm going to have to carry 50lbs in order to stay alive and comfortable (other than the 50lbs, that is.) :)
Birdogsid
06-01-2015, 09:12
Here is what you do. Pretend you are standing out in 0 degree weather. What clothes do you need to stay alive? Choose several layers--ideally 2-3 thin layers, a puffy insulating layer (down, primaloft, fleece) and then a shell (like goretex.) Lose everything cotton (remember "cotton kills") that you have and go with synthetics or wool/silk (because they will still insulate when wet.) If the bag does not keep you warm, wear all of your clothes. Remember that you have all of the clothes. Hopefully this helps. I hate being cold.
Thanks for the encouragement! I'm pretty well set on doing it. At this point, the question is whether I'm going to have to carry 50lbs in order to stay alive and comfortable (other than the 50lbs, that is.) :)
50 pounds: Been there & done that too. Wore the T-shirt yesterday for a 6 mile workout.
Best thing you can do in Colorado is carry high and sleep low. You'll be warmer that way.
I once cycle toured through Utah, Wyoming & Idaho in mid-July. To save weight, I left my down bag at home and carried a healthy, high-tech sleeping bag liner, wool arm and leg warmers, down vest, hat and gloves. I was fine except for a damp night in Yellowstone. Merely uncomfortable, not life threatening.
Avoid the really high places at night. You'll be fine.
Wayne
newToThrough
06-01-2015, 15:12
Here is what you do. Pretend you are standing out in 0 degree weather. What clothes do you need to stay alive? Choose several layers--ideally 2-3 thin layers, a puffy insulating layer (down, primaloft, fleece) and then a shell (like goretex.) Lose everything cotton (remember "cotton kills") that you have and go with synthetics or wool/silk (because they will still insulate when wet.) If the bag does not keep you warm, wear all of your clothes. Remember that you have all of the clothes. Hopefully this helps. I hate being cold. Oooh, that's smart. Thank you for that.
MaryandMarc
07-03-2015, 17:39
I have had success sleeping in a 40F bag wearing a down coat and fleece pants and a balaclava. I shelled out for a thermarest neoair xlite last year and was amazed at how it trapped my warmth. It helps I have a husband who generates a lot of hot air in the tent, as well.