GPS Tracking Section Hike

[jarofkla]

Just curious, how many others are utilizing a GPS tracker on their hikes.

I've been using a SPOT Messenger for 5 years. It works fairly well, but under moderate tree cover, it is "spotty". Are there other devices that are more reliable or do all have trouble in foliage?

BTW, I'll be on the trail tomorrow and through the weekend hiking Craig Creek Road to Bobblet's Gap. Track me at http://www.hikeforhomes.org!

[bemental]

By their very nature, GPS devices are receivers and require line of sight (LOS) with their satellite counterparts, unless additional radios (cellular, WAP) are built in.

Most of the devices we as hikers use (SPOT, DeLorme) are very passive in nature to save on battery, and as such have the same difficulties as others with trees and foliage.

You'll notice that your average smart phone, with a cell connection, may give you a better GPS position in foliage at times, or in urban jungles as well, due to its ability to use multiple sources (cellular radio, wifi, GPS, etc.) to determine location, instead of relying on one source alone.

Finally, changing the frequency of which your GPS updates its location (every minute versus every 10 minutes, or better yet, 'active' location updates), while a huge drain on the battery, should give you better location data to one degree or another.

[linus72]

i know this is not what its about, that being outdoors should be an escape from our technological addictions. and for the most part for me it is. ie i dont bring a tablet to watch movies in my tent, i listen to the owls and coyotes and read! but i confess i love tracking my hikes. but the battery issue is a struggle. i usually do it on my phone app. It's not 100% accurate but it gives me a general idea of my progress and i enjoy having the gpx files at the end because i keep a log of the hikes for nostalgia and record-keeping. i have a goal zero which helps charge it once or twice but any section longer than that and i'd need a trip to town to charge the charger. i tried a garmin unit but that was bulky, kept getting jostled in the pack and changing screens and not properly recording the track so i gave up on that since i didnt use it for much else, let alone loading maps. I hike the AT and other new england area trails which are quite well blazed and always just a few miles from a road, not backcountry large parks where getting lost can be a real danger. i recently got a sunnto ambit which seems like a really cool device so far and got a good price since i exchanged the handheld garmin unit . I have not had the opportunity yet to try it on a section but plan to next month. anyone have experience with it? im trying to make it more of a background thing where i push a button at start and push one at end and save the file for later export. i want to save my phone battery for photos and calls for rides or emergencies. does a spot do this - record tracks with the usual info - elevation changes, avg speed, distance, and a track of where i went as gpx files i can save and export? if so, maybe the watch is overkill and i can stick to my cheap timex that's done me no wrong. i like gadgets but no matter how fancy they are i will not use them if they are overcomplicated and have 100 features i need just to use one that i do need/want.

[jarofkla]

i know this is not what its about, that being outdoors should be an escape from our technological addictions. and for the most part for me it is.
- linus72

I agree, I keep the devices to a minimum. My SPOT is very passive in that it only transmits my coordinates to those following me. I just push the OK button and everyone gets a blip on google maps saying I'm still alive. From the trail, there is no sound, no display, just serenity from the natural world. I get the history of my blips in a GPX, but that's about it.

I like to take my tracker data and my photos and superimpose them to make a slide show displaying pictures on the track in a slideshow. I typically upload it all to http://www.everytrail.com/my_trips.php?user_id=526229.

Nice way to reminisce.

[linus72]

cool thanks! is the basic annual fee of $50 enough for decent tracks? i keep all mine archived on alltrails, which has a great tracker too when i want to use my phone to track, but as i mentioned that drains it fast.

so, it works with a website where it saves the files and i can pull them down as gpx if i want? how does it handle multi-day/ie if i went out for 4 days - do i hit a 'start tracking' button at beginning and 'stop tracking' at end and it will then save the file to the site for me and i dont have to worry about running out of batteries? that appeals to me a lot. as long as the data is even mostly accurate. the data on your samples looks good enough for my purposes. im in new england and the area of trail i do are mostly heavily forested. do you find it to be reliable in those conditions. the reviews i read are quite varied from glowing to all out bashing it. havent tried to track with my ambit yet but it has a lot more features than i need.

[linus72]

and can you change batteries if they run out mid-track and it will pick up where it left off?

[jarofkla]

I think I pay $100 annual for basic ($150 if you want auto-tracking, where it will ping your location every few minutes).

Yes, the info is not stored on the device. SPOT has a website (http://www.findmespot.com) that captures your pings stores them in your profile data for a certain length of time. Not sure when the data disappears, but it's designed to allow for a long excursion. I've seen people use this device to paddle around islands and go on long treks. They recommend you download your information after your trip to save for posterity & upload elsewhere.

So batteries are interchangeable. My device takes 3 AAA lithium and I've never had to change fresh batteries on a extended weekend hike.

My experience with tree cover has been mixed. I recently downgraded my plan to the basic coverage. My thought is to just use the OK button to send a ping when I find clearing and time it to when I need a break. This way I get the major sections of my day tagged and I can verify I got a clean send with my pack off. The device needs a clear line of sight and be pointing up (obviously). I find it a bit challenging to keep the device affixed to my pack in a good position while I'm moving.

Glad you liked my tracks. I took the raw GPX data and massaged it a bit added my picture along the trail and published them on everytrail. I find that that site can be up and down a lot. Not sure if there is a better site devoted to storing GPX/Photo data. If you know of one please let me know. I'm nervous that everytrail will one day go down and not come back up.

[Traveler]

When I want to use a GPS device, I use a Garmin 60CSX hand held. It has a pretty good antenna built into it, its rare to have connection issues but I have had a few under very tall old growth trees and heavy canopies that I have found in the Olympic Penninsula or North Cascades National Park. Compared to the SPOT device, the Garmin has less signal loss and tends to track very accurately. I have it set for a refresh rate of about once per minute and can get two days on two AA batteries.

Downside of course is another bit of gear to lug around. For section hiking or point-to-point hiking I will typically use the mileage from the trail maps, but for going off trail or onto new trails I will bring it along for accurate accounting of miles and total assent footage.

[linus72]

i have read such good things about my ambit watch and it was pretty user friendly to set up, but i have yet to track with it so i will see what its like before making any changes but i crave simplicity and low maintenance so i can focus on the trail and sights before me! thanks for the feedback. if anyone has any ambit advice or experiences please chip in!

[upstream]

I use a garmin etrex legend hcx, and have it save tracks to sdcard, set on 2 second record. A set of rechargable delco AA that don't loose charge when not in use lasts me 2+1/2 days, if I keep the backlight off, and remember to turn it off when I get into camp.

I usually wear it on a lanyard around my neck, but contrary to what was said earlier, it does keep a fairly accurate track, even if it is in my pack or my pocket. I keep it in a waist pack for orienteering, and it keeps a good track in there, and I keep it in a waist pocket of my daypack when peakbagging. I keep it on the lanyard for backpacking and mapping trails and roads.

[shelb]

I apologize if this was mentioned,.... do the iphones help out in this area?

[Traveler]

I apologize if this was mentioned,.... do the iphones help out in this area?

Smart phones can be a GPS source, but a lot depends on the location and signal reception, how much battery you are willing to lose per hour, and the accuracy level you want of mileage/verticality measurements. Myself, I only use my iPhone GPS for light duty stuff like walking for about an hour due to battery drain.

[Buttercup01]

I run maverick pro on my samsung s5 smartphone. With the phone in high accuracy mode, it creates repeatable GPX tracks. The phone also records data every 5 meters. Although the GPX tracks can become rather large, these high resolution tracks are useful for manipulating on GIS software.

If bluetooth and WiFi turned off, the battery will last about 12 hours.

[Another Kevin]

The discussion here seems to be addressing three separate things:



Telling you where you are and where you came from while you're out there (navigation - hopefully as a backup to map and compass!)
Capturing tracks of your hike for later use (drawing maps, sharing on sites like EveryTrail, uploading to OpenStreetMap [PLEASE!], ..)
Sending tracks in real time while you're on the trail (ensuring domestic tranquility)


Standalone GPS units are good at #1 and #2, but can't do #3.

Satellite messengers like SPOT or InReach do #3. Most of them don't have a display to tell you #1. #2 depends on a third-party service and is less reliable than doing it on board the device. The more expensive devices can pair with a phone and send tracks to the phone's display. (But then, why not just use the phone's GPS?)

There are a handful of smartphone apps that can do all of the above. Using the smartphone GPS is something of a battery hog, so they all have limited battery life. #2 is the least expensive, since it just needs the GPS receiver. #1 is surprisingly expensive, because the display takes a lot of power to run. #3 will be a real pig and unreliable, since with a smartphone it will depend on cell network connectivity. Normally when using a smartphone as a GPS, I sacrifice that part. (In fact, I'm not sure whether the app I use even does it!)

I don't actually know what the original poster wanted.

What do I use? Mostly a smartphone, in "airplane mode" with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth turned off but GPS enabled. I'll leave BackcountryNavigator in the background recording tracks, but try to limit strictly my use of the display (maybe cross-check my navigation on it every half-hour or hour, unless I'm really in doubt).

On one long section last year, I carried a SPOT to placate the wife. The emergency function of a SPOT doesn't do much for me. I carry a real PLB for that, whenever I'm going solo, or off-trail, or traveling in winter.

[linus72]

my alltrails app on my phone does a good enough job for me but it does pull on the battery a lot. ive been watching vids on this ambit sport 3 i bought and it seems pretty rad. going to give it a real test when im out there next, with the phone running too as a backup source for the track until i really get to learn and suss this thing out. worst case, got it at REI! ill keep it in good shape and return it if i don't like it and get something else i need.

[Another Kevin]

Oh, I probably ought to mention. If I'm hiking a trail that isn't on OpenStreetMap.org, I put it there, which means that I may have the GPS running for an entire hike to get the track. That means I've done 65-mile sections with a 14000 mAh battery pack so that I could keep the phone charged. So I'm the wrong guy to ask about lightweight GPS gear. :)

[linus72]

dont need #3, they'll just have to trust my skills by now :). in fact, #1 isn't all that important either. i bring maps, and for the trails i hike its pretty easy to follow. if i really need to know where i am exactly on gps i can fire up my app momentarily. its really #2 - that i want. Ive never gotten my tracking app to work with airplane mode. it seems to drop the signal and the track. the handheld device was overkill and bulky for me, and so i got the watch, which i look forward to trying. ive been reading tips to maximize battery on it during gps like pause and restart next day, check location only every 60 seconds, and dont look for POD or POIs whatever - points of interest? any other tips please let me know. I want a no hassle, in the background most of the time way to track the hike to keep and have a timepiece and compass, and altimeter as well all in one place. im mostly on the A.T. and sometimes other local lower new england trails all close to civilzation

[iAmKrzys]

dont need #3, they'll just have to trust my skills by now :). in fact, #1 isn't all that important either. i bring maps, and for the trails i hike its pretty easy to follow. if i really need to know where i am exactly on gps i can fire up my app momentarily. its really #2 - that i want.
If you really only care about tracking then why don't you pick up a used older Garmn eTrex on eBay? I'm sure there are plenty for sale as people upgrade their gps units to newer models. eTrex series is lightweight and run in excess of 20 hours on 2 AA batteries (rated for 25hrs) so you won't need to compromise your safete by draining your phone batteries.

I routinely carry two of my GPSes as I like to collect as much data as possible for marking trails on http://openstreetmap.org - eTrex 30 is my current favorite while my older eTrex Vista HCx sits in my backpack pocket quietly recording extra tracks.

You didn't say what kind of phone you have. I have been using OsmAnd+ on my Android phone (I think they have a version of this app for iPhone as well nowadays) and this program has an option to record tracks in sleep mode. You may want to take a look at this thread for more info: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/111009-Suggest-GPS-App-for-Android

[jarofkla]

Great input everyone.

I appreciate the detail of breaking down the needs of the hiker:




Telling you where you are and where you came from while you're out there (navigation - hopefully as a backup to map and compass!)
Capturing tracks of your hike for later use (drawing maps, sharing on sites like EveryTrail, uploading to OpenStreetMap [PLEASE!], ..)
Sending tracks in real time while you're on the trail (ensuring domestic tranquility)



Personally, I'm not too concerned with the navigation aspect of these technologies. I like maps even if they are old school. I use my SPOT for #2 & #3.

I just got back from a section hike near Troutville, VA (http://www.hikeforhomes.org) and it did a pretty good job when I manually clicked the OK button with a clear view of the sky. In years past, I used the tracking feature, but it was not very reliable especially in tree cover.

I also like the passive nature of the SPOT. I use it to send a ping and that's it. It doesn't get in the way of my (or others) experience in nature. I'm not looking at a screen, I'm enjoying the views.

[linus72]

iphone 5c with Alltrails app. Did my first track on my ambit yesterday, and exported the gpx file. pretty darn cool! all on my wrist. was just the town parade - will trail test it up in salisbury in 2 weeks. i had a garmin oregon 600 but it was bulky and kept getting knocked around in the pack and screen/mode switching and screwing up my tracks.

[rojotide]

I think map and compass are the way to go

[Another Kevin]

I think map and compass are the way to go

Of course. But recording/sharing tracks is "nice to have," particularly if I'm bringing my smartphone anyway. And it's always good to have as many cross checks on navigation as you can.

I also carry a map measurer/protractor printed on a little bit of acetate film (about 2 grams), and of course a notebook and pencil. And an altimeter, which I depend on rather more than I ought to.