View Full Version : Just Aquamira?
astafford
05-23-2015, 08:59
Planning on hiking from Katahdin to NY August 1st of 2016. Any problems with taking just Aquamira and no filter?
Nope, AquaMira is just fine.
Most of the water sources are clear. It's conceivable that you may want to filter some water through a bandanna if not filtering, but that would be very unusual on the AT.
Without a pump, it is very occasionally useful to have some type of dipping cup for filling your water containers from a shallow pool. A quart ziplock, folded over at top to make a "rim" works well in a pinch. Other folks will cut the top off of a plastic soda bottle and use the bottom portion as a free, extremely light dipping cup.
Most of the time, you can easily fill any water bottle directly.
Rocket Jones
05-23-2015, 09:38
I've always taken just Aquamira. If the water has crap in it, I pre-filter it through a coffee filter or clean(ish) bandana.
garlic08
05-23-2015, 13:17
On my AT thru I only carried AM and used about 1/3 of a set on the whole hike (treated about 10 gallons from GA to ME). The water I saw that year was excellent in quantity and quality.
I think I've had the same 2 bottles of AM since 2009... :)
Rocket Jones
05-23-2015, 17:45
LOL The stuff does have an expiration date on it, but as long as it still turns bright yellow it's ok.
Another Kevin
05-23-2015, 20:00
LOL The stuff does have an expiration date on it, but as long as it still turns bright yellow it's ok.
The expiration date is mostly because sodium chlorite will eat its way through the plastic bottle in time. (It might also leach nasties from the plastic, but I'd sooner imagine that they'd oxidize to fairly harmless stuff.) They don't want to be responsible if the stuff leaks and ruins your gear.
I take a small amount of AM, prefer the Sawyer squeeze............fresh cold water when I need it - not 30 minutes later.
Try to get to water supplies empty.
Hangfire
05-23-2015, 23:15
The aquamira should work fine but you may find yourself looking at some shallow creeks depending on how dry it is out there this summer. I was a bit freaked out by the brown water in New York, it guess it was from the tanen in the leaves or something along those lines. Also had to scoop some weird water in New Hampshire with a cut down water bottle, aquamira got it smelling better...
As a section hiker for the past 4 years, I started out with a filter, but I have switched to Aquamira.... Since the switch, I have only had one time that I needed to filter the water through my bandana first. The water on the A.T. is much cleaner than that of the NCT in Michigan.
I use aquamira but always bring some tablets along with it since it can spill or you could put the cap on the bottle wrong and have leakage.
tablets have more aftertaste but basically weigh zero
CarlZ993
05-28-2015, 15:21
I used AM exclusively on my 2013 AT thru-hike. Worked great for me. Sometimes the water will have a tint to it (tannin). Just gotta be sure you screw the lids on tight. Also, save the extra fill-caps when you resupply your AM. I typically carry one more fill-cap than I have for the number of water containers/bottles that I plan on filling (in case I lose one; which I haven't.... yet).
I frequent the NY trails and have never had a problome with just AM drops.
"Most of the time, you can easily fill any water bottle directly."
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you dip your bottle into a water source aren't you getting potentially infected water onto the lip of the bottle? This water won't get treated by the AM or any other method. My personal theory is if you are going to dip the bottle don't waste time or money trying to treat the water.
double d
06-01-2015, 12:32
AM is a great product, its lightweight, works very well (as directed) and is affordable.
CarlZ993
06-01-2015, 13:41
"Most of the time, you can easily fill any water bottle directly."
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you dip your bottle into a water source aren't you getting potentially infected water onto the lip of the bottle? This water won't get treated by the AM or any other method. My personal theory is if you are going to dip the bottle don't waste time or money trying to treat the water.
For most of the hike, I used the Gatorade Sport bottle lids on the old-style (wide mouth) Aqaufina bottles. I'd dip my water bottle into the water source, apply the Aquamira, & screw the lid back on. With the quarter-turn to open lid in place, my mouth never came into contact with potentially contaminated water. When those bottles bit the dust, I just simply used my bandana to wipe off the threads of the bottle before I put on the cap.
Another Kevin
06-01-2015, 14:04
"Most of the time, you can easily fill any water bottle directly."
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you dip your bottle into a water source aren't you getting potentially infected water onto the lip of the bottle? This water won't get treated by the AM or any other method. My personal theory is if you are going to dip the bottle don't waste time or money trying to treat the water.
A few drops of contaminated water is likely enough reduction in total microbial load that your body can handle it. You're talking about 10,000x fewer bugs ingesting a few drops as opposed to a whole litre.
Another thing is that you'll get rid of a few nasties simply by having the AM-treated water come in contact with the few drops of contamination, and some of those are the ones that would make you really uncomfortable. The recommended Aqua Mira concentration will get 99.99% inactivation of rotavirus, norovirus, coxsackievirus type A, enterohemorragic E coli, and shigella in less than a minute of contact. The long treatment times are because Giardia and Cryptosporidium are harder to kill.
double d
06-01-2015, 15:38
A few drops of contaminated water is likely enough reduction in total microbial load that your body can handle it. You're talking about 10,000x fewer bugs ingesting a few drops as opposed to a whole litre.
Another thing is that you'll get rid of a few nasties simply by having the AM-treated water come in contact with the few drops of contamination, and some of those are the ones that would make you really uncomfortable. The recommended Aqua Mira concentration will get 99.99% inactivation of rotavirus, norovirus, coxsackievirus type A, enterohemorragic E coli, and shigella in less than a minute of contact. The long treatment times are because Giardia and Cryptosporidium are harder to kill. Now that is a great answer, thanks for posting more detailed information, very cool!!!
I was on the AT a few weeks ago. Top of Tenn and into Va. In that area, about 1/4 of the water sources were the type you had to scoop water up from basically a puddle, though the water was flowing slightly. Most common method I saw, and I was using was a gravity or squeeze filter. It was a fairly small sample though, maybe 20+. Also saw one person using a steri pen. I bring tablets as a backup to my filter. Lots of ways to do it. Just have to pick one and stick to the instructions.
Berserker
06-02-2015, 11:59
I use a Steripen, but thought I'd add a few things that have worked for me since this kinda morphed into an additional discussion on pre-treatment. I use my cook pot to scoop water out of the source, and pour it into a 2 liter Platypus bag that has a nozzle on top. the nozzle has a piece of a metal coffee filter that I glued into the bottom of it so that I can pour the water from the platy back into my cook pot for treatment. This gets rid of a lot of crap. As a matter of fact, I almost exclusively use this method. If I come up on a source that's a real stinker (cloudy water), which a saw a few of in NY, then I'll use a biodiesel filter that I purchased from DudaDiesel. The 1 micron filter gets a lot of smaller stuff and typically clears up the water a bit.
A few drops of contaminated water is likely enough reduction in total microbial load that your body can handle it. You're talking about 10,000x fewer bugs ingesting a few drops as opposed to a whole litre.
Another thing is that you'll get rid of a few nasties simply by having the AM-treated water come in contact with the few drops of contamination, and some of those are the ones that would make you really uncomfortable. The recommended Aqua Mira concentration will get 99.99% inactivation of rotavirus, norovirus, coxsackievirus type A, enterohemorragic E coli, and shigella in less than a minute of contact. The long treatment times are because Giardia and Cryptosporidium are harder to kill.
It's taken me awhile of researching to get some more information on this topic. Here is what I have found:
-There is surprisingly little research on the amount of Giardia cysts required to make you ill. But (Cox, 2002 and Rose, 1991) it seems that as few as 20
cysts may give you a 50% of becoming infected. That may sound like a reduction from a larger exposure but in reality you only have about a 50% of getting
infected from a very large exposure as well (Wilkerson, 1992).
- Next, you will NOT get rid of any parasites by having treated water come into contact with untreated water unless you wait the prescribed amount of time to let the
treated water actually treat the dirty water. All you do by mixing the two is dilute the number of cysts per ml. But with an exposure as small as 20 cysts to infect
that is unlikely to do you any good.
- Parasites are unlikely to be killed off by chlorine dioxide (i.e. Aquamira) in just a few minutes. The cysts are especially hardy and can survive for a long time
in water. It takes awhile for them to be treated.
- Finally, by far the most common way to get Giardia is by hand to mouth contamination, not drinking water (Welch, 1995).
In summation- If you are concerned about truly treating all of your water then do not dip your drinking bottle into an untreated source. If you dip your bottle in you might as well drink the water untreated.
Cox 2002- Cox FEG history of human pathology. Clinical Microbial. Rev. 15(4):595
Wilkerson 1992- Wilkerson, James A., MD: Medicine for Mountaineering and other wilderness activities. The Mountaineers, 4th edition, 1992
Welch 1995- Thomas R. Welch, "Giardiasis as a threat to backpackers in the United States: a survey of state health departments," Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 6 (1995), 162
Another Kevin
10-20-2016, 15:36
It's taken me awhile of researching to get some more information on this topic. Here is what I have found:
-There is surprisingly little research on the amount of Giardia cysts required to make you ill. But (Cox, 2002 and Rose, 1991) it seems that as few as 20
cysts may give you a 50% of becoming infected. That may sound like a reduction from a larger exposure but in reality you only have about a 50% of getting
infected from a very large exposure as well (Wilkerson, 1992).
- Next, you will NOT get rid of any parasites by having treated water come into contact with untreated water unless you wait the prescribed amount of time to let the
treated water actually treat the dirty water. All you do by mixing the two is dilute the number of cysts per ml. But with an exposure as small as 20 cysts to infect
that is unlikely to do you any good.
- Parasites are unlikely to be killed off by chlorine dioxide (i.e. Aquamira) in just a few minutes. The cysts are especially hardy and can survive for a long time
in water. It takes awhile for them to be treated.
- Finally, by far the most common way to get Giardia is by hand to mouth contamination, not drinking water (Welch, 1995).
In summation- If you are concerned about truly treating all of your water then do not dip your drinking bottle into an untreated source. If you dip your bottle in you might as well drink the water untreated.
Cox 2002- Cox FEG history of human pathology. Clinical Microbial. Rev. 15(4):595
Wilkerson 1992- Wilkerson, James A., MD: Medicine for Mountaineering and other wilderness activities. The Mountaineers, 4th edition, 1992
Welch 1995- Thomas R. Welch, "Giardiasis as a threat to backpackers in the United States: a survey of state health departments," Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, 6 (1995), 162
We may be in violent agreement here. I'm mostly saying that I like chemical treatment over filtration because (1) viral and bacterial gastroenteritis are both more common than Giardia or Cryptosporidium, (2) the residual chlorine dioxide gives me at least some protection against recontamination and against biofilm formation in my water containers.
We both agree that hand-mouth transmission is a much more common vector, and that hand washing is a much more significant correlate with gastroenteritis than water treatment. (Studies are mixed on whether they find any significant correlation at all.) And by that I mean hand WASHING. Gelled-alcohol hand sanitizers have near zero effect on norovirus and sapovirus, two of the most common pathogens Out There.
Moreover, Giardia is something of a fashionable diagnosis. Giardia and Cryptosporidium both have a 7-10 day incubation time. If you got tummy trouble on a trip faster than that, either the protozoa were innocent or you caught them in town. And a doc who starts you on a nitroimidazole (e.g., Flagyl, Albenza, Alinia, Tindamax) empirically before lab results have confirmed the presence of protozoal infection is little short of committing malpractice.
If you're concerned about having near-100% effectiveness against both parasites and viruses, then you need to boil, use UV, or use two methods. Filtration is very effective against protozoa, but entirely ineffective against viruses; while the chemical treatments are at best only moderately effective against protozoa. I'm personally much more worried about the bacteria and viruses.
turtle fast
10-20-2016, 16:01
Interestingly I too feel the same way about the bacteria/virus concern. At one point PUR I believe had a filter with a chemical impregnated pretreated resin that was originally touted as a combo for the very same problem. The problem was that the resin was iodine based and thusly had to remove the claims. Concieveably one could filter and Aqua Mira treat the water getting the best of both worlds. ...or just carry more fuel and boil everything.
Aqua Mira with two caps so I can treat two separate liters at a time.
It's taken me awhile of researching to get some more information on this topic. Here is what I have found:
-There is surprisingly little research on the amount of Giardia cysts required to make you ill. But (Cox, 2002 and Rose, 1991) it seems that as few as 20
cysts may give you a 50% of becoming infected. That may sound like a reduction from a larger exposure but in reality you only have about a 50% of getting infected from a very large exposure as well (Wilkerson, 1992).
...- Finally, by far the most common way to get Giardia is by hand to mouth contamination, not drinking water (Welch, 1995).
Rose, 1991, estimated a 2% chance of infection with a single cyst. That is the definitive infectious dose paper, based on the Rendtorff study. From a very large dose a person is likely to get infected, but might have only a 50% chance of getting sick, although they would become a carrier for a while.
Dr. Welch might be the greatest source of misinformation on backpacker giardia on the internet. His proclamation that most backpacker giardiasis cases are hand-to-mouth is not backed up by the data and is almost certainly untrue. There have been CDC-confirmed backpacker waterborne giardiasis outbreaks, and no confirmed hand-to-mouth outbreaks to the best of my knowledge. Giardiasis is primarily a waterborne disease. (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/giardiasis-outbreaks-in-the-united-states-19712011/7C6DE5EA1BEFF0285ED72B75F5646C1B)
Outbreaks are, of course, the tip of the iceberg. Many scientific papers directly related to backpacking are here (http://bucktrack.com/water.html).
For most water sources I use only Aqua Mira. For the very worst looking stuff I will sometimes use my Sawyer filter then treat with Aqua Mira.
Interesting to note that Welch is not a reliable source. That said, my conclusion was certainly NOT that we should be drinking untreated water. I think treating is so efficient and inexpensive that it's a given. My conclusion was that dipping your bottle into a water source, treating the water, and then putting your mouth on the untreated lip of the bottle is just as much of a risk as drinking untreated water. If you are serious about treating water then you need a "dirty" container to collect water and then pour into a "clean" container.
cmoulder
10-21-2016, 09:15
Interesting to note that Welch is not a reliable source. That said, my conclusion was certainly NOT that we should be drinking untreated water. I think treating is so efficient and inexpensive that it's a given. My conclusion was that dipping your bottle into a water source, treating the water, and then putting your mouth on the untreated lip of the bottle is just as much of a risk as drinking untreated water. If you are serious about treating water then you need a "dirty" container to collect water and then pour into a "clean" container.
If you're worried about untreated water around the lip of the bottle and cap, the answer is super-simple: Unscrew the cap a bit and turn the bottle upside down and let some of the treated water flush the threads of the cap and bottle. Done.
Feral Bill
10-21-2016, 12:34
If you're worried about untreated water around the lip of the bottle and cap, the answer is super-simple: Unscrew the cap a bit and turn the bottle upside down and let some of the treated water flush the threads of the cap and bottle. Done.
That is what we did when iodine was in fashion. It is dead easy.
Another Kevin
10-21-2016, 16:04
If you're worried about untreated water around the lip of the bottle and cap, the answer is super-simple: Unscrew the cap a bit and turn the bottle upside down and let some of the treated water flush the threads of the cap and bottle. Done.
With the caveat that you then have to allow the full contact time after you've done so... but since you're waiting for the water anyway, that shouldn't be a hardship.
just Aquamira. Fewer complicated gadgets the better.
MuddyWaters
10-22-2016, 00:22
Dr. Welch might be the greatest source of misinformation on backpacker giardia on the internet. His proclamation that most backpacker giardiasis cases are hand-to-mouth is not backed up by the data and is almost certainly untrue. There have been CDC-confirmed backpacker waterborne giardiasis outbreaks, and no confirmed hand-to-mouth outbreaks to the best of my knowledge. Giardiasis is primarily a waterborne disease. (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/giardiasis-outbreaks-in-the-united-states-19712011/7C6DE5EA1BEFF0285ED72B75F5646C1B)
.
It is quite confirmed that 25% of the population are asymptomatic carriers, and that it is a common infection in childcare centers. It 100% certainly does not come from drinking water in those places . Pretending fecal-oral route doesn't exist is ....not sensible.
The number of confirmed backcountry cases is very small, Cases scientifically traced to any specific source....negligible percentage.
Kc Fiedler
10-22-2016, 07:13
Planning on hiking from Katahdin to NY August 1st of 2016. Any problems with taking just Aquamira and no filter?
I used only Aquamira for years. Now I use bleach (not kidding) and have never had a problem with either.
I would not hesitate to use only chemical purification, but that's just my experience.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
It is quite confirmed that 25% of the population are asymptomatic carriers, and that it is a common infection in childcare centers. It 100% certainly does not come from drinking water in those places . Pretending fecal-oral route doesn't exist is ....not sensible.
The number of confirmed backcountry cases is very small, Cases scientifically traced to any specific source....negligible percentage.
At no point did I pretend fecal-oral giardiasis doesn't exist and I didn't even mention child-care centers. Child-care centers and wilderness backpacking are dramatically different situations in any case.
To the best of my knowledge, in 100% of the wilderness-acquired confirmed giardiasis cases among backpackers in which the CDC has identified the source of infection, the source has been drinking water. That certainly doesn't mean that ALL backpacker cases are waterborne, but Welch's claim that most backpacker giardia is NOT waterborne is... not sensible. It is based on the logical fallacy of "Argument from Ignorance."
If giardiasis is known to be primarily a waterborne disease, and backpacking is where people in developed countries are most likely to drink untreated water, and 100% of source-confirmed backpacker cases are waterborne, it makes sense to conclude that backpacker giardiasis is primarily waterborne.
I am highly skeptical that 25% of the population are asymptomatic carriers. The CDC references Prevalence of enteric pathogens among community based asymptomatic individuals in which 1.6% of people were found to be infected. The CDC estimates 1.2 million cases occur per year, of which only about 16,000 are lab confirmed and reported.
Traveler
10-22-2016, 09:40
At no point did I pretend fecal-oral giardiasis doesn't exist and I didn't even mention child-care centers. Child-care centers and wilderness backpacking are dramatically different situations in any case.
I am highly skeptical that 25% of the population are asymptomatic carriers. The CDC references Prevalence of enteric pathogens among community based asymptomatic individuals in which 1.6% of people were found to be infected. The CDC estimates 1.2 million cases occur per year, of which only about 16,000 are lab confirmed and reported.
I think the child care centers were an example of how human asymptomatic carriers can spread the parasite, which can be extrapolated to hikers and common food preparation areas. One asymptomatic carrier can potentially infect a lot of people, who will likely blame it on a water source they used a few days prior to getting symptoms when its more likely to have occurred from contact with contaminated surfaces.
I think the child care centers were an example of how human asymptomatic carriers can spread the parasite, which can be extrapolated to hikers and common food preparation areas. One asymptomatic carrier can potentially infect a lot of people, who will likely blame it on a water source they used a few days prior to getting symptoms when its more likely to have occurred from contact with contaminated surfaces.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't possible some backpacker giardia is non-waterborne. I AM arguing that the data shows that verified backpacker giardia cases are waterborne and therefore most non verified backpacker giardiasis cases are also likely waterborne. The CDC clearly agrees. That's why they stress poor hygiene as the primary cause in child care centers and nursing homes, and untreated water as the primary cause among backpackers. It's based on data, not speculation.
Getting giardiasis from contaminated surfaces is rare. For backpackers, any non-waterborne cases are likely caused by dirty hands in shared food.