Yet another "Looking for advice on trail shoes" thread!

[HeatGeek]

Hello all!
thanks in advance for good advice.

I am getting back on the trail after years of being busy with work. I was brought into the hiking world with there thought that the heavier the boot, the better. I've also followed that advice for work with the use of good sturdy boots. I am aware of the general thrust of the advice here and elsewhere on using trail runners over boots. In light of me being out of the loop for years I am willing to take that advice to heart and give trail runners a try, but I wanted to narrow the field before I lay out the cash- i hate wasting money on poor choices!

so-

I run about a 10.5 to 11 US
my feet run slightly wider than average, but it's not crazy. Think brooks over nike- I've never,ever been able to wear nike shoes. I think I'm a "light" D width. I've worn New Balance in the past for running shoes.

the other thing- a few years ago I "rolled" my left ankle pretty badly. I've never fully recovered even though most of the time it's fine. It's just ever once in a while I will plant my foot wrong and zing! that same ankle rolls to the outside and it's weeks or more until I'm in ok shape to walk without a twinge.


With that in mind, what do the august members of WB suggest? If you guys keep me out of the worst choices and more into the better footwear, that's all I can ask. Thanks!

See you on the trail!!

PS- It's hard to let go of the idea that shoes/boots don't provide ANY ankle support, but I also understand that you don't strengthen what you don't use...

[MuddyWaters]

All boils down to fit.
Peoples feet are different.
You have to try a bunch
Running warehouse and zappos have free shipping and return shipping
Try all you want, costs nothing but gas to ups store

[HeatGeek]

Muddy- I get what you're saying, that being said I will be buying at least THIS pair locally, but even so, I would like help in narrowing my focus a bit. That's the point of the post.

I'd like to not try the whole damn shoe store on, LOL!

[OCDave]

There is a REI in Boulder. They carry several La Sportiva trail runners. They run small and you will end up in a full size larger than any other brand. I have been very happy with a set of Raptors but, there are several models from which to choose. REI also carries Vasque, Merrill and Keen brands. Buy something before Monday and save 20%.

Good Luck

PS: I don't work for REI but I am a member

[HeatGeek]

That's OCDave.

I'm aware of Rei, and am a member. We also had EMS (eastern mountain sports) years ago too. Lots and lots of gear stores around boulder to be sure. That's helpful info on the La sportiva line. I also hear that the salomon shoes run narrow, does anyone know if that is true?

[HeatGeek]

arrrgh!

sorry all.. I hate that I'm making all kinds of typos!! Where's the edit button around here??

[OCDave]

What have you tried so far? What have you ruled out?

New Balance has several Trail Runners. If their shoes have worked for you in the past, they will likely work for you in the future. You will only KNOW what works when the shoe is on YOUR foot.

[burger]

I have to agree with a few people above that looking for suggestions for specific models is silly because fit is so individual. You are wasting your time if you think that someone here can find the perfect shoe for you based on your description.

Here's what you should do: go to the biggest outdoor store you can find near you, and try on everything. You will know when you find something that fits and feels right. If nothing works, keep looking.

For my last thru-hike, I exhausted all the stores in my local area and ended up having to travel to NYC before I found something that worked. That shoe turned out to be perfect, and I used the same model for the entire trail. But I must have tried on 20 different types of shoes before I found the one shoe for me. Don't expect the internet to do the work for you.

[MuddyWaters]

Muddy- I get what you're saying, that being said I will be buying at least THIS pair locally, but even so, I would like help in narrowing my focus a bit. That's the point of the post.

I'd like to not try the whole damn shoe store on, LOL!

Im totally serious.
Try shoes from every mfg that meet your weight, tread, breathability, drop, cushioning requirements. The ones that fit you best in the heel and foot, with roomy toes are what you want.

What are your requirements?
If all you can say is " a trail runner", you need more definition. There are a lot out there, BUT, it narrows dramatically when you put constraints on it like weight, drop, aggressive tread, rock plate, etc. You can narrow it down to half dozen shoes and order them. Just looking at pictures and specs will tell you a lot and help you narrow it down.

For instance i like very deep aggressive tread for longevity. This is actually rare. Many are made to wear out 200 miles with 1/8 " deep tread. They are intended to last a couple months of recreational weekend running. They might last longer on soft dirt, but rock trail wears them out fast. Its got to last thru at least 500 miles of rocky trail.

Then, it has to fit, weigh under 14 oz, minimal cushioning, low stack height, very breathable mesh, have a toe rand for protection, have a high enough toe box thst toes dont rub on top, moderate drop. Bam...only a couple models to evaluate.

The low toe box height is a major downfall of la sportiva btw.

And when you find one you love, buy several pr, because in a few months it will be gone, never to be made again.

[HeatGeek]

It might have gotten lost in the original post, but let me re-focus MY question:


among brands that TEND to run to the wide fit, what are your favorite brands?


I'm NOT, nor did my post EVER presume for you to pick out my exact shoe. That's kind of the point of not ordering via the internet.


At most I thought somebody might spit out a list a FEW of their favorite shoes that fit feet that run a little wide. You aren't picking my shoe, at MOST you are giving suggestions of shoes that run wide and have worked for you.

Thanks for the input so far :)


PS- durabilty is always a good quality! I guess another thing I hold in the balance is relatively good ventilation, 'cus my feet sweat more than average. peeeee-u! That's another reason what I am willing to try trail runners. I will be trying out a couple of different darn tough sock designs (cool max and some of their wool hiker designs)

[Smokestack]

Nobody ever seems to mention the brand, but I have found the Saucony Xodus to be the best FOR ME. Actually, the toe box is a bit too roomy for my feet; but good tight heel, great arch support, light weight, aggressive tread and top of class for ventilation. My hiking is in extreme heat and humidity (Florida) and standing water. The Saucony is great for debris rejection and drainage, and the tread does great on everything but wet flat rock.

Other factors to consider. I have high volume feet with a long arch. I do not know how these shoes will perform for people with more -er- convention feet. I don't care; I have about 700 miles on my current pair of Xodus. Very little noticeable wear with no separations or tears. For me, they have outperformed several flavors of Merrells, NB, Brooks, Hi-Tech and Keens. Best of all, you can get "last year's" editions at many locations for about $50.

[Wyoming]

Just to jump in a bit here.

The hiking boot criticism is not really valid anymore though it certainly once was. Hiking shoes are an option now and it pays to put them on your list of considerations.

I have hiked in everything from keds, to NB, hiking shoes, to combat boots, working boots, to actual mountaineering boots so I am not directing you anywhere but just pointing out the full options to consider.

It is a mistake to only consider running and trail running shoes for some of these reasons. The hiking specific shoes of today are NOT 'boots' in any sense of the word. My two favorite hiking shoes (made by Vasque) weigh exactly what many of the trail running shoes weigh. And they are far superior shoes to trail runners. They have much harder soles and virtually eliminate foot bruising and pain and they are no more likely to give you blisters than running or trail running shoes (I have at least 5000-7000 miles in them without any blisters at all for instance). Also unlike with running shoes my feet do not end up swelling a lot and then not fitting the shoes like happens a lot with running shoes. Also hiking shoes are made for the bio-mechanics of walking while all the other light shoes are designed for running. This does make a difference. Injuries to the feet and lower legs are much less common with the walking shoes than with the lighter shoes and this might be a point to consider as well.

Plus there is the factor that most will not need shoe inserts like Superfeet which cuts costs a lot. They are FAR more durable than trail running shoes. I had one pair last 2000 miles of walking on the AT and here in AZ where I live now I get at least 750 up to 1000 miles on them in our really bad rocky terrain. So overall they cost about 1/3 as much as trail runners and running shoes (out here many people only get around 200 miles on running shoes and not much more on trail runners. And no running type shoe goes beyond 500 miles before the inner sole cushioning is worn out.

REI has a number of companies walking shoes and several have wide models in addition to regular models. Try a few on and see what you think.

[namaste7]

Has anyone hiked in vibram's five fingers? I hike all over in them, but always in warm weather. I'm anxious about hiking in the cold with them, but can't find and boots or shoes that feel good on my feet. I've been wearing five fingers now for about 5 years. The good part is they dry very fast, the bad part is they're useless in snow.

[peakbagger]

Since the recall, I don't see many five fingers on the trail anymore. Some folks were using them in the whites but they were few and far between. I perceive they were a fad of the year and the folks following the fad have moved onto the next one long ago.

[peakbagger]

To the original poster, be aware that you feet will get wider if you start doing significant hiking.

As for ankle rolls, if you have structural issues in your ankle, boots may be required. For the vast majority of folks, conditioning of the ankles will reduce sprains. I used to sprain my ankles frequently with boots and once I switched to trail runners, I found the number and severity of sprains dropped quickly. I have been using trail runners in the whites for about 15 years.

[gsingjane]

Welcome to WB Heat! I do understand what you're looking for... just a few suggestions rather than philosophical overload... got it. How about Brooks Cascadia? They're great for wide feet like yours and mine, and lots of people use them with good success. I have hiked and backpacked probably close to 500 miles in mine and they're holding up great (I also got an earlier edition on eBay so I didn't have to pay the fortune a new model would cost). At least give them a spin!

Jane in CT

[BirdBrain]

To the original poster, be aware that you feet will get wider if you start doing significant hiking.

I wonder why my feet have not changed over the years. I am not disputing your claim. I have seen it in other people. My hiking partner for Maine had his feet grow a half size just going across Maine. I have a good pair of dress shoes that I have had for 30 years. They fit the same as the day I bought them. I know I am doing many things wrong. Must be doing something right on my feet. Either that or good genes. I wear NB for long hikes and sandals for many of the short walks.

[rickb]

It might have gotten lost in the original post, but let me re-focus MY question:


among brands that TEND to run to the wide fit, what are your favorite brands?


I'm NOT, nor did my post EVER presume for you to pick out my exact shoe. That's kind of the point of not ordering via the internet.

New Balance.

The have have multiple wide widths are decent quality and seem to be designed to fit all kinds of feet pretty well.

Added bonus, the company stil manufactures some of their shoes in this country -- probably not the ones you want, but still.

[BirdBrain]

Sorry for my thread drift. I agree with rickb. New Balance. I tried many more expensive and "better" shoes, but only New Balance felt great straight out of the box. It is hard to describe. Other shoes are too supportive for my taste. New Balance shoes feel the closest to not wearing shoes. I like that comfort.

[bgillomega]

I've heard lots of good things about Brooks Cascadia and La Sportiva Wildcats. I'm happy with my Vasque Mindbenders and Salomon Sense Pros. You'll have to find a shoe/ sock combo that works for you though. Good Luck.

[Singto]

"I have to agree with a few people above that looking for suggestions for specific models is silly because fit is so individual."

I have to disagree about it being silly. Finding out from people about specific models is EXACTLY where someone should start their search as more likely than not, a lot of time can be saved and a solution more forthcoming. No doubt that each person is different and different brands fit differently but calling silly the concept of finding out what others are using and what they are experiencing is disingenuous at best.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Everyone here will tell you to find some over-priced sneakers that you can only find at an outfitter, which will be labeled "trail runners".

If you're 20-something (or Grandma Gatewood), you could just as easily pick up a pair of Walmart knock-off Keds. In fact two weeks ago, I passed a southbound section hiker who was doing a 200 mile section BAREFOOT. She was about 18. For the rest of us, I would suggest buying proper footwear.

Here's what I saw on the trail -- practically everyone who was over 40 and hiking in sneakers complained endlessly about their feet. The guy I wound up hiking with had planned to thru-hike, but he got off at Fontana with me because his feet hurt so bad that he thought he had a stress fracture. He was hiking in a fancy pair of Nike "trail runners".

Instead, I wore an excellent pair of Danner 453 GTX hiking boots. They weigh (for both) exactly one pound more than my Merril Moab Ventilators, at 3.3 lbs (for both). I started with serious Plantar Facsiitis in my left foot. It was gone by the end of my hike. My feet never hurt, they stayed dry even hiking all day in the rain, and I only got one blister, when the the top of my sock got wet while eating lunch and it wicked down to the back of my heel without my realizing it.

The Danner insoles are excellent (they make the boots for our G.I.'s and know what they're doing), but I used Sol Sole insoles for a little more solid arch support for my plantars. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered changing them.

And don't listen to the one-pair-of-socks folks, either. You need a thin pair of high-top liners under thick marino wool ankle-length hiking socks, or you will get blisters, in any shoe. Roll the liners down to keep debris out of you boots. And take three pair so you never have to wear them more than twice.

Nothing will kill a long hike faster than sore feet. Get the proper tool for the job -- and it's not a pair of sneakers.

[BirdBrain]

For the rest of us, I would suggest buying proper footwear.....
Instead, I wore an excellent pair of Danner 453 GTX hiking boots........
Nothing will kill a long hike faster than sore feet. Get the proper tool for the job -- and it's not a pair of sneakers.

Such blanket declarations should be ignored. No one thing works for everyone. I would not survive 2 days in boots. I never get blisters and I always use trail runners on long distance walks. Trail runners, body glide, and Darn Tough socks work for me. I don't pack any 1st aid items for my feet. Never had a need for them. Some people prefer boots. My brother in law always hikes in boots. Most don't these days. Nothing works for everyone.

Notice I did not say that boots are not a choice for hiking. It is for some. That number seems to drop as time passes though. Who knows? It might be the rage again in 10 years.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Such blanket declarations should be ignored. No one thing works for everyone. I would not survive 2 days in boots. I never get blisters and I always use trail runners on long distance walks. Trail runners, body glide, and Darn Tough socks work for me. I don't pack any 1st aid items for my feet. Never had a need for them. Some people prefer boots. My brother in law always hikes in boots. Most don't these days. Nothing works for everyone.

Notice I did not say that boots are not a choice for hiking. It is for some. That number seems to drop as time passes though. Who knows? It might be the rage again in 10 years.

The chorus in favor of hiking in sneakers is so loud that firm statements are required to even be heard above the din.

I merely report what I witnessed, and what worked for me on a long, actual AT hike. I've tried three different pairs of "trail runners" over the years. Some were comfortable on a flat Texas trail but all failed miserably on difficult mountain trails. Ever read AWOL's book? Remember how many sneakers he went through looking for a shoe that didn't hurt? And it never occurred to him to try a pair of boots!

All I know is that my feet normally hurt all the time, but they quit hurting when I spent three weeks on my feet hiking difficult terrain in a proper pair of hiking boots. Meanwhile, virtually everyone I met on the trail was hiking in sneakers, but when the subject of feet came up, it was always complaints.

The OP asked for advice, so gave mine, based on my experience, rather than the prevailing religion. Sorry, I'm just a hopeless agnostic.

[BirdBrain]

I believe you HB. I am happy that you have found something that works for you. You and I both know that you are not alone in your choice. I live in Maine. Most of my hiking is in Maine. I have done Maine and NH and 42 of their 4000' hills. I am doing the Long Trail this year. My New Balance trail runners are not expensive and work great for me. My choice is based on actual hiking. The numerous hikers with foot problems have not figured out what works for them yet. Some might need boots. Some might need trail runners. Some might need better socks. Some might need better insoles. Some might need Body Glide. Some might need to learn how to care for their feet better. You know what works for you. I know what works for me. Saying trail runners or boots are the fix is too broad a declaration.

[burger]

"I have to agree with a few people above that looking for suggestions for specific models is silly because fit is so individual."

I have to disagree about it being silly. Finding out from people about specific models is EXACTLY where someone should start their search as more likely than not, a lot of time can be saved and a solution more forthcoming. No doubt that each person is different and different brands fit differently but calling silly the concept of finding out what others are using and what they are experiencing is disingenuous at best.

Why would you bother limiting your choices to just what other people suggest? That's not just silly--it's stupid. There are more and more kinds of trail runners available every year, but if you post on a forum like this you're only going to get a handful of suggestions. You can try on a pair of shoes in 2 minutes. In a 45-minute trip to a store like REI, you could easily try on every model of trail runner they sell. Why limit yourself when it's so easy to sample what's out there and there are so many options?

On my last thru-hike, I used a model that was brand new. There were no reviews available from any thru-hikers--just a few comments on trail running blogs. If I'd gone fishing for suggestions here or another hiking site, I never would have even considered the shoes that ended up being the best for me.

The ONLY reason to seek out comments from other people on shoes is too watch out for lemons--bad models that have some flaw (like the boots I bought several years back where the sole kept falling off). But nowadays you can easily scan through reviews on REI or zappos or elsewhere to look for evidence of any problems.

[DaveRowell]

My feet sound similar to yours without the ankle issue. That alone would direct me at a mid height shoe. I have a pair of Zamberlan crosser mids that I love. Super light and comfy. That said most of my summer hikers are now low shoes. Brooks cascadia,Altra's, Keen's, all fit my feet great. My favorite is Salewa Firetail the best gripping shoe on wet rock I have ever had.

[Wyoming]

Everyone here will tell you to find some over-priced sneakers that you can only find at an outfitter, which will be labeled "trail runners".

If you're 20-something (or Grandma Gatewood), you could just as easily pick up a pair of Walmart knock-off Keds. In fact two weeks ago, I passed a southbound section hiker who was doing a 200 mile section BAREFOOT. She was about 18. For the rest of us, I would suggest buying proper footwear.

Here's what I saw on the trail -- practically everyone who was over 40 and hiking in sneakers complained endlessly about their feet. The guy I wound up hiking with had planned to thru-hike, but he got off at Fontana with me because his feet hurt so bad that he thought he had a stress fracture. He was hiking in a fancy pair of Nike "trail runners".

Instead, I wore an excellent pair of Danner 453 GTX hiking boots. They weigh (for both) exactly one pound more than my Merril Moab Ventilators, at 3.3 lbs (for both). I started with serious Plantar Facsiitis in my left foot. It was gone by the end of my hike. My feet never hurt, they stayed dry even hiking all day in the rain, and I only got one blister, when the the top of my sock got wet while eating lunch and it wicked down to the back of my heel without my realizing it.

The Danner insoles are excellent (they make the boots for our G.I.'s and know what they're doing), but I used Sol Sole insoles for a little more solid arch support for my plantars. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered changing them.

And don't listen to the one-pair-of-socks folks, either. You need a thin pair of high-top liners under thick marino wool ankle-length hiking socks, or you will get blisters, in any shoe. Roll the liners down to keep debris out of you boots. And take three pair so you never have to wear them more than twice.

Nothing will kill a long hike faster than sore feet. Get the proper tool for the job -- and it's not a pair of sneakers.

Well let us just say that you need to work on how you give advise.

It is certain that your advise on boots is wrong for near 100% of long distance hikers. Boots are almost always the wrong choice and for near 100% of hikers with similar issues to yours hiking shoes with hard soles would work exactly the same and save 1.3 to 1.5 lbs.

As to your comment about wearing socks you are just flat wrong. I wear women's ultra light smart wool socks that are as tight as I can get on. I learned this from the outfitters in Damascus on my thru hike. I have about 7000 miles on this way of hiking and have never gotten a blister. Others that I know who do this never get blisters either. I have never in my life worn two socks except in extreme cold and this includes for hiking, climbing, work, in the service, etc.

There are many reasons for people to consider doing the above. Blisters are caused by the presence of 3 things; friction, heat and moisture. Wearing two socks with one of them thick guarantees a greater build up of heat. A very thin sock guarantees the least heat possible. A thick sock arrangement also guarantees that it will take longer for all the moisture to exit the shoe than with a thin sock. A third reason to wear a thin sock is so that you can fit the shoe properly as a combination of thick socks and thin socks means you have to buy a larger shoe and a larger shoe than your correct size and this means more foot movement in the shoe and thus lots of friction or more blisters. Thick socks are for cold weather primarily for the above reasons. The minimal cushioning found in thick socks is not sufficient to make any difference. We should not forget that in jungle environments that many soldiers do not wear socks at all in their boots.

There is no right answer on footwear for the general hiker and we need to keep in mind here that this place is mostly to help beginners to figure out what is right for them. Don't tell people what to do. Provide them with options to help them learn what works for them.

[Another Kevin]

Everyone here will tell you to find some over-priced sneakers that you can only find at an outfitter, which will be labeled "trail runners".

If you're 20-something (or Grandma Gatewood), you could just as easily pick up a pair of Walmart knock-off Keds. In fact two weeks ago, I passed a southbound section hiker who was doing a 200 mile section BAREFOOT. She was about 18. For the rest of us, I would suggest buying proper footwear.

Here's what I saw on the trail -- practically everyone who was over 40 and hiking in sneakers complained endlessly about their feet. The guy I wound up hiking with had planned to thru-hike, but he got off at Fontana with me because his feet hurt so bad that he thought he had a stress fracture. He was hiking in a fancy pair of Nike "trail runners".

...

Nothing will kill a long hike faster than sore feet. Get the proper tool for the job -- and it's not a pair of sneakers.

I got my New Balance MT610v3 trail runners at a discount shoe place for less than $40 a pair. I'm not sure, the Superfeet insoles that I put in them may have been more expensive than the shoes. While I'll likely never be a thru-hiker, I did a 70-mile section in them last fall with no problems with blisters, fascitis, stress injuries, or any such thing. My only foot problem was a black toenail - that needed lancing - which happened when a bog bridge collapsed under me. I'd have had to be wearing steel-toed boots to avoid that problem, and I'm not ordinarily about to go hiking in big clunky construction-worker boots!

And don't say that it's because I'n a 20-something. I'm a year younger than you.

I happen to agree with you on the sock liners - but that's what's right for my feet. If I'm in a situation where debris in my shoes is going to be an issue I wear gaiters. And in the mesh-topped trail runners, my merino socks dried quickly. On the trip last fall, I must have stepped in water several times every day, but I could walk my socks dry in about half an hour, because my shoes weren't waterproof from the inside. (That's the problem with the water-resistant ones: they resist water both ways.)

But I've said many times - it's what works for YOUR feet. Ultralightweight trail runners with green Superfeet insoles work for MY feet in warm weather. In shoulder season, I switch to my Timberland boots, and in deep winter to Sorel pac boots.

I'm happy that you have success with your Danner boots. If it works for you, stick with it! I'm sticking with what works for me until and unless it no longer works.