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jthue
05-25-2015, 16:30
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.

Sarcasm the elf
05-25-2015, 16:34
I know people who think seat belts are dorky. I don't pay them much mind.

Probably 80-90% of long distance hikers use trekking poles.

Red Cinema
05-25-2015, 16:37
No one has given me any grief as you describe over hiking poles. Leather armor, curved blade, battle scars, hob-nailed boots...yeah, people call me Orky then.

Cotton Terry
05-25-2015, 16:44
What Red Cinema said. Trekking poles help me on the up hills, down hills, uneven terrain and the many times I've tripped or lost my balance. I would never consider hiking without them and no one ever even mentioned them - most people had them on my recent AT section hike. That being said, don't make a gear decision based on what others might think is cool.

Offshore
05-25-2015, 16:46
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.

Why would you even care about "gear peer" pressure, especially at age 28? Who cares what others think about your choice of gear? If you find poles useful, then use them and stop worrying about the opinion of others. I see more day hikers with them that without, but that in itself is not a reason to use or not use them. HYOH

Lone Wolf
05-25-2015, 16:48
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.

i never have and never will use them. i guess i look dorky

Walkintom
05-25-2015, 16:57
Anyone calls me a dork too many times while I'm sporting trekking poles may find out that the pointy bit smarts.

billnchristy
05-25-2015, 17:29
We want some, but haven't bought any yet because I want to get all three of us some at the same time. We just pick up a stick every time we go into the woods right now.

peakbagger
05-25-2015, 18:09
Lots of orks finishing up on Katahdin with poles. I found that I used them less down south but far more up north. Since I live up north in the whites, I use them all the time. The rare occasios I don't use them like bushwhacking, I feel it.

Tuckahoe
05-25-2015, 18:25
Orks with poles
30821

IdgieNC
05-25-2015, 19:23
The only people that give me a hard time about trekking poles are the ones that have never backpacked. They are worth their weight in gold I think I don't leave home without them

ZenRabbit
05-25-2015, 20:15
They do help you with movement through difficult, rock strewn, wet or muddy inclines or declines.

Plus, half or more of the tents that are in the UL category use a trekking pole as the tent poles.

Not orky.

Sallymon
05-25-2015, 20:32
I started using poles when I was 23 on my first long trail experience. I love them. I have better balance, can hike faster and it feels much easier on my knees. I'm 28 now, so like, super old. ;) Back then I didn't see anyone hiking without them my age.

kayak karl
05-25-2015, 20:44
if you think you're orky with poles, you are probably orky without them too. just something to think about ;)

saltysack
05-25-2015, 21:24
They have saved my arse countless times....it might look dorky walking down a paved city road using them but I would never hike a trail without em......also my shelter is supported by them....I'm not concerned what anyone else thinks....non hikers might not understand there functionality but anyone that knows anything about hiking surely understands....


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jthue
05-25-2015, 22:51
Hey I never said they were dorky. I was just curious to see if anyone else has had backlash. I like the poles so much I went and bought my first pair today. To hell with the haters.3082430824FD

Tuckahoe
05-25-2015, 23:44
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.


Hey I never said they were dorky. I was just curious to see if anyone else has had backlash. I like the poles so much I went and bought my first pair today. To hell with the haters. FD

I have go ask... Push back, backlash and haters? And who from?

jthue
05-26-2015, 00:12
The backlash is from my brothers and close friends. I hike with them a lot but they don't hike as much. I was just curious. I guess this forum was the wrong place to ask.

Traveler
05-26-2015, 03:43
The only push back you are likely to get is out of ignorance. People who do not hike much in difficult terrain likely do not see the value in trekking poles as those who do. Easily 80% or more of long distance and difficult terrain hikers use these poles as standard gear.

egilbe
05-26-2015, 06:29
The backlash is from my brothers and close friends. I hike with them a lot but they don't hike as much. I was just curious. I guess this forum was the wrong place to ask.

Was it the wrong forum to ask because you didn't get the answer you wanted? I started off not using hiking poles, but became a convert fairly quickly. Just way too handy to have on the uneven trails we have in Maine. You won't hardly ever see experienced hiker not using poles.

FreshStart
05-26-2015, 07:21
Started with poles from day one, will NEVER hike without them. For those steep hills they save the knees. Also many other uses around camp.

Offshore
05-26-2015, 08:26
Hey I never said they were dorky. I was just curious to see if anyone else has had backlash. I like the poles so much I went and bought my first pair today. To hell with the haters.3082430824FD


Good for you - now bring the haters out on some increasingly more technical hikes and they'll see the utility soon enough. They'll grab some poles and you'll all have fun. Then you can show one of these old school sticks http://www.brazos-walking-sticks.com/categories/Walking-Sticks/ and really give them something to talk about!

saltysack
05-26-2015, 08:35
Was it the wrong forum to ask because you didn't get the answer you wanted? I started off not using hiking poles, but became a convert fairly quickly. Just way too handy to have on the uneven trails we have in Maine. You won't hardly ever see experienced hiker not using poles.

I guess Lone Wolf is one of a kind!!!


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q-tip
05-26-2015, 11:07
Hyoh!!!!!!!

Trance
05-26-2015, 15:35
IMO you'd be a fool not to use them at any age.... I'm 38 and my knees thank for me it.

jthue
05-26-2015, 15:38
Once again, I'm not the one that called them dorky. If I thought that I wouldn't had bought my own pair. I enjoy using them. Sorry some of you didn't like the question. It wasn't my intent to annoy

daddytwosticks
05-26-2015, 16:14
At 56 years of age, I no longer care if people think I'm dorky, geeky, or nerdy. Within reason, I simply do what makes me happy. By the way, my wife and kids think I'm very cool. :)

Lone Wolf
05-26-2015, 17:21
IMO you'd be a fool not to use them at any age.... I'm 38 and my knees thank for me it.

it's just walkin'. don't need no crutches

HDLV
05-26-2015, 17:25
I started using them recently and will never go back.

handlebar
05-26-2015, 17:37
it's just walkin'. don't need no crutches

For my 70 year old knees, poles are a necessity. HYOH. Maybe in another 14 years or so, you'll find yourself using them too, LW!:-?

Lone Wolf
05-26-2015, 17:43
For my 70 year old knees, poles are a necessity. HYOH. Maybe in another 14 years or so, you'll find yourself using them too, LW!:-?

nope. i'll never use 'em

Shooting Star
05-26-2015, 18:48
Before I used hiking poles, I would take a tumble most every trip. In the
years that I have hiked with poles, I've only had 1 ass over tea-kettle fall.
They really help with knee wear and tear on downhills too and with stream
crossings. You are almost a 4 legged animal with poles.

BirdBrain
05-26-2015, 18:57
I doubt any there is any gear that would make me look cool on the trail. Therefore I settle for gear that is functional. Let the rookies look cool. Seek stuff that works and don't worry what others think.

Deadeye
05-26-2015, 20:20
Hey I never said they were dorky. I was just curious to see if anyone else has had backlash. I like the poles so much I went and bought my first pair today.

Well of course you look dorky... you bought the wrong poles. Duhhh.
:)

bgillomega
05-26-2015, 23:09
Be a leader not a follower. If they work for you use them... if not don't. It's that simple.

jthue
05-27-2015, 00:03
Deadeye, are you telling me Black Diamonds weren't the right buy? I bought that brand because the reviews were good haha. I'm a rookie here. Till now I've hiked my whole life without poles.

Offshore
05-27-2015, 07:14
Deadeye, are you telling me Black Diamonds weren't the right buy? I bought that brand because the reviews were good haha. I'm a rookie here. Till now I've hiked my whole life without poles.

I think Deadeye is teasing you. BDs are perfectly good poles (I have 3 pair myself, including a loaner pair for those that see the light.) Here on WB, you'll find people arguing that a handle needs 0.25 degrees more incline or the flick locks need to be adjusted to a precise torque, or poles must have sustainable ultralight artisanal cork handles to even be considered usable on the trail.

Stop second guessing yourself about your poles - get out and use them.

Old Hiker
05-27-2015, 08:43
The backlash is from my brothers and close friends. I hike with them a lot but they don't hike as much. I was just curious. I guess this forum was the wrong place to ask.

Aaaaahhhhh, brothers and close friends. JUST the people who will ALWAYS be nice to you and never, EVER tease you just to get a rise out of you.



Questions:



Which is more important to you? Face planting on the Trail and possibly getting damaged or looking “non-(d)orky" to someone who is only putting you down for your choices?
Why is the word “hater” ALWAYS used when someone disagrees with YOUR choices?


I have several sets of poles: two sticks, two bamboo poles and two AL trekking poles. Don’t care about what other people think. About anything I CHOOSE to do. Scroom.

Decide for yourself. Ditch the people who put you down.

Francis Sawyer
05-27-2015, 09:03
Although I have been able to use my legs to move about since approx 1 yr of age I do use poles when I hike due to the high-centered weight. My only issue is that folks seem to think that poles are no good unless they cost lots of $. Bollocks to that! Sticks are free!

rojotide
05-27-2015, 09:35
They save your knees and keep you stable and are good at holding up your tarp..many purposes!

rojotide
05-27-2015, 09:36
I like Black diamond adjustables with the flick lock. I've had them for 3 years and have not failed me

Harrison Bergeron
05-27-2015, 14:40
From my recent experience, I do not think it is physically possible for a typical person to hike the AT without poles, and certainly not anyone over 40. In the three weeks I just spent on the GA-to-Smokies section, I saw exactly three people attempt to hike without poles. Everyone else thought they looked like dorks -- especially after they tried to make their own from sticks in order to relieve the pain of trying to hike the AT without proper hiking gear.

Lone Wolf
05-27-2015, 14:45
From my recent experience, I do not think it is physically possible for a typical person to hike the AT without poles

i've only done 5 thru-hikes without poles

Sarcasm the elf
05-27-2015, 14:46
i've only done 5 thru-hikes without poles

When was the last time someone described you as "typical?"

atraildreamer
05-27-2015, 14:55
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.

If you don't want to have push-back, then get the poles without the shock absorbers. :D :banana

thecyclops
05-27-2015, 15:01
Man up son! Someone says something,stick up the middle finger,say something rather nasty about his/her mother and dare them to come do something about it...Well thats how I would handle it.

saltysack
05-27-2015, 15:28
Man up son! Someone says something,stick up the middle finger,say something rather nasty about his/her mother and dare them to come do something about it...Well thats how I would handle it.

Haaaaaaaa......my thoughts exactly![emoji482]


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Namtrag
05-27-2015, 15:39
Only Chuck Norris should hike without trekking poles...

Seriously, I am not sure why anyone would not use a tool that helps so much. It's kind of like hiking in Chuck Taylor's when you can wear Salewa trail runners. Sure, you can do it, but it's not as easy.

Lone Wolf is excepted from this comment! :)

thecyclops
05-27-2015, 15:54
Haaaaaaaa......my thoughts exactly![emoji482]


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We would hike well together me thinks
http://www.highreshdwallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Drinking-Cheers.jpg

Harrison Bergeron
05-27-2015, 17:38
i've only done 5 thru-hikes without poles

Yes and Ray Jardine was the first to free-climb El Capitan. Then he went on to hike the triple crown and did the CDT with less than 12 pounds on his back -- and then got rich advising lesser mortals to do likewise, thereby probably proving the mortality of many of the lesser men who followed his advice.

Lone Wolf, you and Ray are legends, not a "typical persons". We lesser mortals require trekking poles (not to mention shelter, clothing, water, and food) when hiking long distances in the mountains.

Back on the trail
05-27-2015, 17:46
Those that are "pushing back" I would bet have little experience hiking long distance. Would I bring them doing a day hike with only lunch on my back to the pond and back; no. I just did my first 25+ day: would I do that without them; No.

The Splitter
05-27-2015, 20:44
Who gives a damn if they're dorky. I thought they were for old women and tourists at first until I saw someone I respected used it them and tried them. They're not for me and don't fit my style but I certainly see they're advantages and could see my self using the. In the future depending on the terrain.


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Lone Wolf
05-27-2015, 21:07
Lone Wolf, you and Ray are legends, not a "typical persons". We lesser mortals require trekking poles (not to mention shelter, clothing, water, and food) when hiking long distances in the mountains.
bullcrap. he's just a man like me that do our own thing. we ain't sheeple.i started walkin' the AT before books, movies, internet and Iphones. it's just walkin'

thecyclops
05-27-2015, 21:45
bullcrap. he's just a man like me that do our own thing. we ain't sheeple.i started walkin' the AT before books, movies, internet and Iphones. it's just walkin'

You started walking the AT before books and movies???? How old are you????????????????????????????????????

BirdBrain
05-27-2015, 21:49
You started walking the AT before books and movies???? How old are you????????????????????????????????????

He left out dirt. Guess he didn't want to brag.

Fredt4
05-27-2015, 22:00
Sticks are free, good poles are worth the money & weight. Sticks don't make good tent poles or collapsed very well. Haters are gonna hate, and dorks will look like dorks.

Deadeye
05-27-2015, 22:52
Deadeye, are you telling me Black Diamonds weren't the right buy? I bought that brand because the reviews were good haha. I'm a rookie here. Till now I've hiked my whole life without poles.

Well until this moment, I didn't know you had Black Diamonds, Offshore was right, I was teasing. Now that I know you bought BD... well, you shoulda bought Lekis!

Seriously, I find poles helpful on steep descents, but a hindrance the rest of the time. I often hike without, with just one, or a cane.

shelb
05-27-2015, 23:06
At first, I used them because my husband said it would help me. I never knew just how much they helped me until I accidently left them somewhere on the trail! That sucked! Then, I had another set have one brake on me. One did not cut it!

However, I realize everyone is different!

LittleRock
05-28-2015, 08:07
At first, I didn't use poles because I thought they were dorky. Then I blew out my knee on my first AT section hike. Now I use them every time, and have not blown out any more knees since.

Nooga
05-28-2015, 09:01
Aside from the benefits of using trekking poles when hiking, particularly on down hills and stream crossings, I use them as support poles for my tent. In 2012, I hiked with a friend who started out without trekking poles. He eventually picked up a couple of wood poles as he was having an issue with his hands swelling.

Rolex
05-28-2015, 11:05
They have saved my arse countless times....it might look dorky walking down a paved city road using them but I would never hike a trail without em......also my shelter is supported by them....I'm not concerned what anyone else thinks....non hikers might not understand there functionality but anyone that knows anything about hiking surely understands....


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Me too on the arse saving. Going down a steep grade or water crossing on a tree or submerged rocks my "kickstand" has saved me so many times. I'm one of the single extendable stick/staff guys though so I might be half dork.

In my defense I have a pair of Lekis and have tried them. But every time I get in a rhythm, My mind starts making swoosh swoosh sounds like snow skiing. It disturbs the other voices in my head.

saltysack
05-28-2015, 11:15
Me too on the arse saving. Going down a steep grade or water crossing on a tree or submerged rocks my "kickstand" has saved me so many times. I'm one of the single extendable stick/staff guys though so I might be half dork.

In my defense I have a pair of Lekis and have tried them. But every time I get in a rhythm, My mind starts making swoosh swoosh sounds like snow skiing. It disturbs the other voices in my head.

The first set I bought were a ultra light wt carbon Black diamond...I slipped at night heading up Kinsey creek trail and snapped one in half...it kept my face out of the mud though!! BD actually sent me a better stronger set for free...love my carbon cork poles!!!id never go with out them.......Like them so much my 8yr old has his own....http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/28/d0af55128d26f26aa23300cc5ce01c3e.jpg


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bill1980
05-28-2015, 11:15
Don't worry about looking dorky. I got the same objection from my adult son when I took him hiking and recommended (in addition to permethryn) that he tuck his trousers into his socks, as he had no gaiters. He thought that would make him look dorky until he read about lyme disease.

BirdBrain
05-28-2015, 11:18
The first set I bought were a ultra light wt carbon Black diamond...I slipped at night heading up Kinsey creek trail and snapped one in half...it kept my face out of the mud though!! BD actually sent me a better stronger set for free...love my carbon cork poles!!!id never go with out them.......Like them so much my 8yr old has his own....http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/28/d0af55128d26f26aa23300cc5ce01c3e.jpg


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Problem solved. In order to not look dorky with trekking poles, one must first look cool with or without them... like the above cool kid. :D

Scrum
05-28-2015, 12:44
Her is Scott Jurek on the the first day of his AT record attempt. Notice what he has in his hands? Ask your brother and friends if they think he is a dork of a hiker.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/webkit-fake-url://FCBEF948-7A2F-4FF5-B81F-2826C9F81B96/url.jpg

Scrum
05-28-2015, 12:46
Her is Scott Jurek on the the first day of his AT record attempt. Notice what he has in his hands? Ask your brother and friends if they think he is a dork of a hiker.



Sorry - looks like the photo did not show up - here is a link. http://blog.scottjurek.com/post/120066906809/appalachian-trail-day-1-in-the-books-departed

barefooter333
05-28-2015, 14:29
if I am going hiking I don't leave home with out them

saltysack
05-28-2015, 14:54
Problem solved. In order to not look dorky with trekking poles, one must first look cool with or without them... like the above cool kid. :D

Haaa...he loves the AT...he's hooked. He's finishing 3rd grade now....hoping to thru with him after his high school graduation....counting down...lil ways to go!


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virginiagunny
05-30-2015, 21:20
I am 63 soon to be 64, and I started using just one pole last year and have now got the sense to use a pair of them, I also so far more hikers with poles then those without. Most of the ones I see without pole are day hikers, but then that group of hikers don't have a pack with them.

MuddyWaters
05-31-2015, 04:49
Here is jenn shelton and krissy moehl on their JMT record attempt last summer. Using poles as well. (Krissy was sick and slowed them down, they started off above record pace at the time)

This photo is interesting because its exactly where a few days later, i met another female 3 time hardrock champion who had a low key record attempt going, who was bailing out because she was already behind the pace, and needed to see a map of the bailout route.

She didnt have poles.

30877

squeezebox
05-31-2015, 05:39
poles saved me from a tumble a lot of times.
and they seem to help keep up my pace.

No Directions
05-31-2015, 05:48
bullcrap. he's just a man like me that do our own thing. we ain't sheeple.i started walkin' the AT before books, movies, internet and Iphones. it's just walkin'

I'm surprised you would walk the AT or any other established trail. Adhering to a path that was determined by someone else. Following blazes would seems too much like conforming for you. I figured you would strike off into the woods making you own path. No tools to guide you, just your own keen sixth sense of direction. Superhiker.

Lone Wolf
05-31-2015, 06:46
I'm surprised you would walk the AT or any other established trail. Adhering to a path that was determined by someone else. Following blazes would seems too much like conforming for you. I figured you would strike off into the woods making you own path. No tools to guide you, just your own keen sixth sense of direction. Superhiker.

yes, i am Superhiker. king of Blue Blazing

Offshore
05-31-2015, 12:37
yes, i am Superhiker. king of Blue Blazing

Yeah, but a blue blaze is still a blaze...

Francis Sawyer
05-31-2015, 12:54
Don't worry about looking dorky. Do what suits you and eff everyone else. This isn't middle school. You don't have to be "cool" to fit in.

MuddyWaters
05-31-2015, 13:11
Of couse, heres what Andrew Skurka has to say as well:


Trekking poles might be considered 6-oz arm weights, but in fact they make me a more powerful hiker by allowing my arms to assist with forward and upward propulsion, and with braking on descents. With them, I feel fresher at the end of the day, I can hiker further, and I help avoid overuse injuries. I did not start the Appalachian Trail with trekking poles but within a few days I was envious hikers who had them. When I reached the Nantahala Outdoor Center, I promptly bought a pair — and have never gone on a serious hike without them since.

Another uber-hiker, Nimblewill Nomad, also uses trekking poles..

Harrison Bergeron
05-31-2015, 13:37
OP, to answer your original question, yes, trekking poles are "dorky". In order to be a "cool" hiker, you must not use them.


But be advised -- when you grow up, you will look back on all the "cool dudes and dudettes" that you met in your life who are now on welfare with three fatherless kids, or whining for a raise in their minimum wage, or strung out on drugs, or dead, or in jail -- and you will realize that "cool" is merely a synonym for "dumbass".

JumpMaster Blaster
05-31-2015, 15:18
I always use poles. Found out I had been using them "incorrectly" the majority of the time. I started using the "nordic" technique on relatively even, level ground, and it has made me hike faster and easier. Someone said "if you don't get some kind of upper body workout while hiking you're doing it wrong". Did a day hike yesterday with a 7 pound pack, and I can feel it in my shoulders & arms, but I was scootin.

If you feel comfortable using poles whene you hike, do it. If you feel comfortable carrying a little yellow rubber duckie, do it.

Another Kevin
05-31-2015, 16:13
I always use poles. Found out I had been using them "incorrectly" the majority of the time. I started using the "nordic" technique on relatively even, level ground, and it has made me hike faster and easier. Someone said "if you don't get some kind of upper body workout while hiking you're doing it wrong". Did a day hike yesterday with a 7 pound pack, and I can feel it in my shoulders & arms, but I was scootin.

If you feel comfortable using poles whene you hike, do it. If you feel comfortable carrying a little yellow rubber duckie, do it.

Some of us old farts also need poles for stability on dodgy footing, or to cushion the knees on downgrades. Allowing the upper body to power you along on level ground or gradual ascents is part of it, but only part.

I heard from a gym-rat co-worker once that it's really hard to get a good triceps workout. I recommended to him hiking with poles.

Theosus
05-31-2015, 20:04
Have you ever been viewed as a dork for using trekking poles? I see the value in them, but I'm getting some push back.

I see very few hikers without them. I see you're from Utah, maybe they're just less common out west? I hike around SC/GA/NC/TN. Lots of standing water, mud, slick rocks, stream crossings. I wouldn't dream of going without poles. After a 13-15 mile day, walking around camp without poles sometimes feels weird!

I wouldn't let someones opinion of my gear influence me. Then again, I'm the only one in my group that wears a kilt, too. I've gotten a few snarky comments from guys, but the women they're with usually smile when alpha male guy isn't looking.

Polgara
05-31-2015, 20:39
I haven't hiked in decades and I am just about to start again. You can bet I will be investing in a good pair of trekking poles. In my younger years I hiked in the back country of Yosemite and parts of the Sierra's where there is snow in June. I sure wish I had poles then. Why would you care what other people think?

bill1980
06-01-2015, 12:13
I always use poles. Found out I had been using them "incorrectly" the majority of the time. I started using the "nordic" technique on relatively even, level ground, and it has made me hike faster and easier. Someone said "if you don't get some kind of upper body workout while hiking you're doing it wrong". Did a day hike yesterday with a 7 pound pack, and I can feel it in my shoulders & arms, but I was scootin.

If you feel comfortable using poles whene you hike, do it. If you feel comfortable carrying a little yellow rubber duckie, do it.


Jumpmaster: can you explain the "nordic" technique?

squeezebox
06-01-2015, 12:34
Consider the "crutch tip" kind of things, much better on rock surfaces.
And what about bringing the snow basket things for snow or muddy areas?

BirdBrain
06-01-2015, 12:47
Consider the "crutch tip" kind of things, much better on rock surfaces.
And what about bringing the snow basket things for snow or muddy areas?

I have done a considerable amount of hiking in muddy areas. I find the baskets to be useless in real mud. The poles still sink out of sight and baskets make wonderful suction cups when you go to lift the poles out of the muck. Baskets also make it difficult to use the poles with precision to accomplish how I prefer to use them in muck. I use them much like a blind man would a cane. I tap, tap, tap looking for obstacles. If I find a solid one, that is where I step. Furthermore, there is no need to take your own baskets. You will find plenty littering up the trail. Use the lost ones you find and throw them away at the next town.

Just my blunt opinion. :D

lbbrown
06-01-2015, 12:49
Try www.pacerpole.com. Embrace the technology!!! Read about the biomechanics of efficient walking.

Theosus
06-01-2015, 12:56
I have done a considerable amount of hiking in muddy areas. I find the baskets to be useless in real mud. The poles still sink out of sight and baskets make wonderful suction cups when you go to lift the poles out of the muck.
Just my blunt opinion. :D

Agreed! My z-poles have very tiny baskets on the bottom, and they work fine. They still sink in the mud, but one side is cut for when you stow the poles, so the suction cup effect isn't bad. They'll sink right down in thick mud, though. My last set of REI poles had larger baskets, and they were always getting caught on the brush trailside. I took them off and threw them out.