View Full Version : Shoe choice for February starting Springer
denimlabels
05-28-2015, 23:11
Anyone have any Shoe ideas for February start? I am going to wear trail runners for most of the hike but I dont want to be walking in wet frozen feet when I need to trudge thru snow and ice. I am not a fan of boots. I am ok with being Cold. I am not ok with wet cold & numb feet.
Flounder940
05-29-2015, 07:27
I used trail runners in February on my thru attempt. No problems. Your feet get wet regardless of what ever precautions you take. Double up on socks. Your feet will syst warm as long as you are moving. Saw lots of people out there in the snow and rain in trail runners
Wet feet are not mandatory. There are trail runners that are not built entirely of mesh.
Traction devices would be most beneficial. Wool is best for cold, wet conditions.
Shoes are just the tip of the iceberg for winter travel at elevation. You need a complete system to travel and sleep comfortably. No, a 35-40 degree flimsy sleeping bag, thin foam pad and a handkerchief for a tarp won't do the job.
I wonder what the success rate for February thru hike starts is?
Good luck. Stay dry. Stay warm.
Wayne
Ashepabst
05-29-2015, 10:15
i don't do winter backpacking without waterproof boots.
Flounder940
05-29-2015, 11:00
The people I hiked with that were wearing waterproof boots still got wet. Their "waterproof" boots took a lot longer to dry than my trail runners. My feet never got numb and I hiked through lots of rain and mud.
First of all, the La Sportiva Nepal boot was supposed to be deleted. While your feet might stay dry in them, they are obviously overkill.
While not easy to find, there are trail runners and approach shoes (possibly better for winter-early spring) constructed of Nubuck leather and without Gore-Tex liners. Proper treatment of this type of shoe will minimize water saturation. Sorry folks, footwear destined for extreme conditions are not good to go off the shelf.
The La Sportiva Boulder X (http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Approach-Shoes-Reviews/La-Sportiva-Boulder-X) approach shoe deserves consideration until summer rolls around. Available from all the usual suspects.
30865
Wayne
bigcranky
05-29-2015, 12:36
Trail tunners with a Goretex liner. Winter is the only time I wear waterproof shoes. Add lightweight eVent gaiters if the snow is deep.
The waterproof Solomon speed cross 3 are a favorite of mine. Good traction And light weight
denimlabels
05-29-2015, 22:54
Thanks for the suggestions. I learned the hard way the importance of staying as dry as possible during the winter. Im looking at the La Sportiva Crossover 2.0. I dont have any experience with this shoe but really like my Wildcat trail runners. I may just take the Wildcats along as my 2nd camp shoe.
I am a fan Salomon as well but I used a pair up in Maine a couple years ago and found that shoe very narrow in the foot box. It seems they all run kind of narrow. The nice thing about La Sportiva is how those shoes really lock your heel into place.
So thanks for the suggestion on the Boulder X. Its a great looking shoe. I think I will call them and ask for some free samples.:)
kayak karl
05-29-2015, 23:25
whats a WATERPROOF boot?
MuddyWaters
05-30-2015, 06:21
Goretex socks w/ trail runners.
Or breadbags
denimlabels
05-30-2015, 11:34
What makes gore tex socks any better than a pair of say darn tuffs? The gore text still gets wet but stays warmer is that correct? I probably wont be using breadbags until my sock money runs out.
MuddyWaters
05-30-2015, 11:59
What makes gore tex socks any better than a pair of say darn tuffs? The gore text still gets wet but stays warmer is that correct? I probably wont be using breadbags until my sock money runs out.
goretex sock goes over your regular sock. Your feet will still be wet from sweat, but they will be a lot warmer than with a constant flow of 32F snowmelt trickling thru them.
denimlabels
05-30-2015, 20:07
I will give them a shot Muddy Waters, thank you. I also want to try out those socks made from Opossum by a company in New Zealand. (Not the North American species).:)
I froze my backside off one winter camping in Alaska during the late winter months almost 20 years ago and it scarred me for life. I swore I would never spend another day camping in freezing cold weather. But that was before they had all these wonderful fabrics that they do today. Of course, twenty years ago I didn't have money for anything but cheap beer and gear from Wally World Outfitters....At least now I can afford a cheap suit.
MuddyWaters
05-30-2015, 20:17
I will give them a shot Muddy Waters, thank you. I also want to try out those socks made from Opossum by a company in New Zealand. (Not the North American species).:)
Possum down is warm, but.....it is known for not being very durable at all. The gloves really dont last very long if you do anything wearing them. I dont know anything about the socks, but I wouldnt personally plan on them for anything but sleep socks. And I think sleep socks are stupid. Id rather have 4oz more of down in my quilt, or 2oz down booties, than carry a pair of sleep socks. Just me.
If you are serious and this isn't one of those "I'm going to hike the AT in 33 years...." posts.
This is what you want.... http://www.sealskinz.com/US/socks/thick-mid-length-sock
Paired with a set of trail runners and don't look back.
If you are serious and this isn't one of those "I'm going to hike the AT in 33 years...." posts.
This is what you want.... http://www.sealskinz.com/US/socks/thick-mid-length-sock
Paired with a set of trail runners and don't look back.
Wow, those are some nice socks!
I'm in the "quick drying trail runners" camp.
Might be helpful for those of us making recommendations to say what conditions and over what periods they've used our recommendations. Closest context for me was that I started the AT in late Feb in 2010, and was happy with trail runners throughout.
I might have used goretex socks (?) but consider them optional. Decent wool socks are key. I've used neoprene socks with mixed results (depending on conditions and thickness of neoprene). I wouldn't use them for long-term (i.e., thru-hike) use. I've been cold in neoprene in snow in conditions when I felt like I would have been fine in just wool socks.
I hiked through the Smokies in snow in March of last year too, doing the first month with a friend who was thru-hiking. Had a good deal of snow both times through there, definitely didn't use goretex socks (or neoprene) last year.
Certainly doesn't hurt to have goretex socks. Size them up, however, so they fit over a good set of wool socks. I'm nominally a size 10, wear a size 11-1/2 (4E) trail runner, and use size 12 goretex socks (Rocky brand). If it turns out it's not worth it, you can mail them home.
The problem is that it's one more thing to fiddle with in a morning when you're putting on frozen shoes. Which, btw, is one big advantage of shoes over boots: if/when your shoes freeze solid over night, you can crack them open and force in your foot. I imagine it would be a(n even bigger) challenge doing so with frozen boots. I find that if goretex socks fit overall about right that there's some effort involved in putting them on and taking them off. You might instead just carry a couple extra pairs of breadbags and use those if the snow is wet or just running melt water.
denimlabels
05-31-2015, 18:33
Thanks for the replies. It appears at least to me that wet feet are just gonna be part of the experience of starting in February. Waterproof boots, trail runners, bread saks, sealskin and Opposum skin socks....all good ideas but either your feet don't breathe and they become cold and wet or they get cold and wet from water seeping in. Take your pick. Just sounds like a case of hiker "Welcome to the suck".
Now that I have my shoe situation all figured out I guess I should decide wether to buy a cathole spade or pick up some lightweight pack out bags.
Brainle's advice about sizing for goretex socks - and his brand choice - are perfect. If you like your trail runners, you should just go buy another pair for the first part of your trip - big enough for really thick wool socks AND a pair of goretex socks. Pretty sweet light and dry walking.
CarlZ993
06-01-2015, 13:52
Lots of good advice listed above. I would use a non-GoreTex trail runner. It dries faster. But, I'd add an additional item that hasn't been listed yet: a waterproof stuff sack for your wet shoes. I used one for my wets shoes & socks inside & then slept with them inside my sleeping bag. It kept my shoes from being frozen solid. Each morning, I'd put on wet shoes & socks (it sucked) and begin hiking as soon as I could. I made sure that I always had dry socks to sleep in at night.
With a Feb start, I'd also recommend using some Microspikes (or similar) for traction control on icy trails. I saw a lot of fall on my March 21st start. I didn't bring mine & I wished I had.
Good luck.
booney_1
06-02-2015, 16:17
ditto: a plastic bag or waterproof bag is NEEDED to put boots/shoes in the foot of your sleeping bag. Putting on frozen shoes in the morning is not only uncomfortable (understatement), but if your feet get cold, it takes a while for them to get warmed up. This makes the difference between a miserable morning and a merely cold one.
Another Kevin
06-02-2015, 16:44
1azarus and BrianLe certainly have a viable way of doing things: lightweight and quick-drying trail runners waterproofed witn neoprene or Gore-Tex socks. I've hiked with 1azarus in Massachusetts in winter, and it works for him. But he has a legendary ability for running light over snow that has the rest of us wallowing. (He, and not Sarcasm, should have been called the Elf!)
I try to keep feet dry in winter come what may. In "shoulder season" here Up North - which corresponds, I suppose, to February in Georgia. I wear Timberland boots that have a Gore-Tex membrane. I don't sweat out my socks, because I wear very thin sock liners, then doubled bread or newspaper bags, and then my wool socks. The liners get all clammy, but I carry multiple pair of those and change them out. The point of the bags is that they're a vapor barrier to keep the socks dry from the inside.
In deep winter, I switch to Sorel pac boots, with the same arrangement of liner socks, doubled bags, wool socks. In the event that the felt pacs get wet, I try to field dry them with hot rocks from a campfire. Stand well upwind!
In both seasons, I use OR gaiters to keep snow from getting up my pant legs and down my boot tops. I live in Microspikes in the winter. They're on my feet essentially any time that I don't need snowshoes nor full crampons (Which, I'm told, you won't need Down South, but don't take my word for it because I've not been there.) About the only time I'll have my traction gear off is if the snow is balling so badly that I'm walking on six-inch snowballs when I have my spikes on.
In a February start, you won't be getting Up North in deep winter, so I don't have to get into the subject of snowshoes, crampons, ice axe, and so on. Winter hiking up here is ... specialized.
Harrison Bergeron
06-02-2015, 18:16
The idea of sneakers (gortex, "trail runner", or otherwise) and warm dry feet in snow, in February, at 5000' on the AT -- is exactly as ridiculous as it would sound to any normal person who has never heard of WhiteBlaze.net.
This is real easy. You will need a proper pair of hiking boots. Once you try a proper pair of boots you will discover that you like to hike in them just as much in July as you do in February, because they are not hot to hike in, weigh barely one pound more than a pair of sneakers, and cost about the same -- and they have the additional advantages of properly supporting your feet and ankles so that your feet don't hurt all the time, and they keep your feet dry even when hiking in the rain all day.
I recommend these: http://www.danner.com/453-5-5-dark-tan.html. Buy them one full size larger and use liner socks with thick wool hiking socks.
Another Kevin
06-03-2015, 11:32
The idea of sneakers (gortex, "trail runner", or otherwise) and warm dry feet in snow, in February, at 5000' on the AT -- is exactly as ridiculous as it would sound to any normal person who has never heard of WhiteBlaze.net.
This is real easy. You will need a proper pair of hiking boots. Once you try a proper pair of boots you will discover that you like to hike in them just as much in July as you do in February, because they are not hot to hike in, weigh barely one pound more than a pair of sneakers, and cost about the same -- and they have the additional advantages of properly supporting your feet and ankles so that your feet don't hurt all the time, and they keep your feet dry even when hiking in the rain all day.
I recommend these: http://www.danner.com/453-5-5-dark-tan.html. Buy them one full size larger and use liner socks with thick wool hiking socks.
I haven't been Down South in winter. But from other people's GSMNP trip reports I've read, I might want my pac boots!
Mostly, you and I are nearly in 'violent agreement.' For me, trail runners are not adequate in winter.
On the other hand, I've been hiking with 1azarus on the A-T in Massachusetts in winter - and he does not complain of wet or cold feet in his trail-runners and Gore-Tex socks. He also runs light over snow in which I wallow. (Memo to self: Don't believe him when he says snowshoes won't be needed. He won't need them Ordinary humans might.) His feet are not the same as mine. His answers don't work for me. But he can out-hike me any day of the week.
I'm of two minds about 'proper' full leather hiking boots, which I used for years. For me, they're something of the worst of both worlds, heavy and over-warm in summer, inadequate to keep the feet warm and dry in deep winter. I find that I'm all right in high-top Gore-tex boots in boot-deep snow as long as I have a vapor barrier inside, and wear gaiters. I'd wear gaiters in any case, since I hate getting snow down my boots or up my trouser legs. In heavy snow or deep cold, I want my pac boots. The full leather boots tend to get crowded out in the middle.
These are my feet. I don't assume that your feet are the same. But I'm not writing from inexperience - despite being a 'clueless weekender' because I don't do long-distance hiking. It's been about forty years since I bagged my first Northeast 4000-footer in winter. And I loved the Pivetta boots that I used for that trip. Nowadays, there's more than one way to do it.
kayak karl
06-03-2015, 11:46
I did January and February on the south part of the trail. got rid of the trail runners by January 15th. Went with mid-height New Balance shoes. they were Gor-tex that is the only thing I regret. They took days to dry. Snow height on average was 4 inches.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
As with so many things, there's no "one size fits all". Before I hiked the AT, a very experienced friend advised me that, while trail runners make sense on the PCT and CDT, boots are what a sensible person should wear on the AT. I didn't follow his advise and I was glad that I didn't. But another also very experienced (more experienced than I) hiked with me in the same conditions and for the early, snow-intensive part of the trip he switched to goretex hiking boots and HE was also glad of his choice.
So I definitely don't mean to put down those who opt for some sort of boot (!). And I'll go further and say that if you're going for quick drying trail runners, it would be a very (very) good idea to do some test hikes in different late spring (consolidated but sometimes melting spring snow) conditions before you commit to this for a long trip. Start with a day hike or base camp in such conditions, then maybe a week long trip somewhere that you can bail out of at need.
But again, I would also put more weight on comments by folks who have hiked long distances in such conditions. The issue for me is what do you do if your waterproof boots DO get wet inside. The dynamics of hiking for weeks in snowy conditions are different from those of hiking a couple or three days at a time in snow. I'll go with waterproof boots myself if I know that I can easily and completely dry my boots out every couple of days. Boots are certainly what I use in heavy snow around home.
I guess I should add to my last comment that I don't use trail runners in snow only because of the "what if your heavy footwear were to get wet?" issue. I'm just much more comfortable in trail runners, not only because of the weight but because the footwear breathes. And for long distance hiking, most of the time (and all of the time I've been on the AT) when you're hiking in snow, you're not *always* hiking in snow. Often you hike up into it and then back down to dry trail, or you go through extensive snow/no-snow patches. Thru-hikers are sometimes guilty of exaggeration and over dramatization, i.e. "It was all snow". The truth is that even on the parts of trail where there's lots and lots of snow to deal with --- I think that even the worst such cases (the whole state of Montana for me on the CDT) --- there's more mileage done with no snow than is hiked on snow. We just remember the snow more; it's slower and tougher going, and generally more interesting!
So, I also wear the trail runners for all of the non-snow parts of the trip. It's a trade-off that I still really appreciate.
The Solemates
06-03-2015, 14:49
feet are gonna get wet regardless of what you wear....just a matter of how you deal with it.
Harrison Bergeron
06-03-2015, 17:25
I'm of two minds about 'proper' full leather hiking boots, which I used for years. .
That's my point. A "proper" pair of modern boots is no longer made of leather. You wouldn't consider a pair of 70's vintage Converse Allstars to be proper hiking gear, the same way that I wouldn't consider a pair of 70's vintage waffle-stompers to be suitable hiking gear. Modern synthetics have changed boot technology much more than they have sneakers. If you still think boots are made of leather, you should take another look.
Traveler
06-04-2015, 16:31
For what its worth, I have moved into trail runners for three season hiking which seem to work better for me than boots these days and stopped a lot of knee issues I was having with boots. Once snow and ice start however, I move into a pair of Asolo TPS 520 GVs. No issues with moisture or warmth and I prefer the boots to use with snowshoes and walking in 5" or more of snow. I've used these boots for a considerable time (several pairs over the years) and have not ever had a problem with them. These are leather boots, which if properly cared for last about 1,500 to 1,800 miles before they have to be replaced.
The Solemates
06-05-2015, 14:20
I wear the same merrell ventilators all season. I've bought this shoe for years because it fits my foot well, is relatively inexpensive, and easily available. Its been around and stood the test of time, as evidenced by the fact that merrell keeps offering it. if I ever find a pair on sale I buy them whether I need them or not. Once a pair wears out I always have a spare. i have a non-goretex low cut pair and a goretex high top pair. I wear the "waterproof" ones in winter when snow is on the ground. generally my feet get wet anyways. thats gonna happen with snow on the ground.
bannerstone
06-05-2015, 15:54
Thanks for the replies. It appears at least to me that wet feet are just gonna be part of the experience of starting in February. Waterproof boots, trail runners, bread saks, sealskin and Opposum skin socks....all good ideas but either your feet don't breathe and they become cold and wet or they get cold and wet from water seeping in. Take your pick. Just sounds like a case of hiker "Welcome to the suck".
Now that I have my shoe situation all figured out I guess I should decide wether to buy a cathole spade or pick up some lightweight pack out bags.
I would beg to differ, that you don't have your shoe situation figured out until you've tested your system in conditions. Subtle things like shoe sizing can be critical in cold weather. Also how you take care of your feet when you stop makes a big difference.
David
denimlabels
06-05-2015, 19:37
Lots of great suggestions. I wont have a chance to test anything in the cold again until December so I am putting it off until then. That will give me some time to check out store products as well. Im still interested in the La Sportiva crossover 2.0. They call these a Winter trail runner. I could add the right sock combo and some micro spikes and probably be ok.