water pump

[Trail Yeti]

Ok, so Ragin Hampster got me thinking after I saw his little "homemade" filter pump thingy....
his weighs 10 oz which is only 1 oz less than a sweetwater or a pur hiker.
So my question is this...does anyone know how to make a small little handpump that is light (of course) and sturdy?
I thought if you made one yourself you could cut some weight, maybe pump through a safewater inline.....
thoughts? suggestions? comments?
Life is Good, Wear a Kilt!
yeti

[Footslogger]

Ater reading RagingHamster's note I drug out (and dusted off) my PUR Hiker. I pulled out the filter element and popped it on the scale -- 8 oz ...and that's with the acorn, hose and a small baggie full of coffee filters. He may have a point there. I remember several places along the trail in 2001 when it was just about impossible to dip a nalgene or other type of container into the water but a pump would have done the trick. I'm using Aqua Mira this year anyway so a filter is a lesser concern. Another nice thing about going sans filter element is that the device won't get heavier from trapped water. It'll start at 8 oz and end at 8 oz. What the heck, I can alway mail it home or stash it in my bounce box if it gets to be a nuisance.

[RagingHampster]

I'm going to look at the hardware store. I know they have lightweight plastic pumps for siphoning gasoline from a gas tank. I'll see if they are any lighter. Remember, my 10oz also includes 3 replacemnet filters for the SiltStopper 5Micron Filter, and the 2oz aquamira kit. So in actuality the pump/filter setup weighs 7oz. I just feel safer knowing that I have 3 replacemnet filters with me, and can justify the 1oz. I also considered coffee filters, but then I decided to use the synthetic mesh pre-filter that came with my first need, and added the siltstopper to remove everything but bacteria and virus'. It also makes the chlorine-dioxide's work much more effective when everything is small, and there are no clumps.

[DebW]

I have the pump from one of the original First Need filters. The pump with a piece of hose weighs 3.4 oz. Adding a siltstopper brings it up to 4.6 oz. This differs from RH's setup in that there is no hose attached to the pump inlet - you have to hold the end of the pump in the water. And I shortened the outlet hose to 2 feet. This pump is probably not available except used. Maybe there's a way to make something like a ketchup pump work.

[Footslogger]

I just got back from the Ace Hardware in search of a light weight pump. Only thing they had was a little siphon. I thought "Ace was the Place" but I guess I'll have to check out the True Value now.

[Streamweaver]

I have a Coghlans(sp) filter pump that cost me 20 bucks at sports authority. I used it on alot of day hikes and overnighters so its pretty sturdy(not sure about daily use but it seems pretty strong) the pump with a 23" inlet hose and a 12" outlet hose weighs 3ozs its about 8"long by 2.5" at its widest part(the pump handle) and it pumps water pretty fast!! Sportsauthority has a website and I think they still sell em(www.thesportsauthority.com) might be worth checking out.
Streamweaver

[Footslogger]

Thanks Streamweaver ...I just checked it out on-line and you are correct. Sports Authority has it for $19.99
But then I did a Google search on Coughlans Water Filter and came up with at leat 4 other reputable ".com" stores that sell it for $14.99 with $4.88 shipping/handling. Looks like that might be the better way to go.
Again ...appreciate the tip. That little pump may be all I am looking for in cases where the water supply is too shallow to dip a nalgene.

[Trail Yeti]

If you live near a K-Mart then you won't have to order one at all!
They sell them for 14.88....
Thanks for finding that StreamWeaver, it looks like what I was envisioning! And at 3 oz!!! yippee!

[Footslogger]

Well, I called the local K-Mart and they didn't have any of the Coghlans filters in stock. So, I did the next best thing ...ordered it from K-Mart on-line for $14.99. Of course I got clipped with a shipping charge but I would have had to pay that anywhere I went. Just aren't that many option out here in Laramie, WY when it comes to hiking/camping gear. I'm thinking this little bugger of a pump may be just what I was looking for.

[Trail Yeti]

I think I am gonna go to Lowes and see if I can make one. It will give me something to do beside study. Find some pvc pipe and some o-rings.....can't be that hard

[max patch]

The Coghlans Water Filter will not meet your needs and should be avoided at all costs. It is without a doubt the worst filter ever made.

To protect against giardia and cryptosporidia requires fine pores capable of trapping particles as small as 0.2 microns. The absolute (or largest) pore size should be 1.0 microns or less. The Coghlan filters to 2.0 microns.

The design of the Coghlan is also unacceptable. Rather than inserting a hose into the water you actually insert the entire filter head into the water. Until you try this you can not begin to imagine the how this design flaw complicates pumping water. This design flaw also contributes to clogging despite the large pore size of the filter.

Last years Backpacker magazines annual gear guide reviewed 19 water pumps. The Cogland was not one of them. You can not buy the Cogland at REI. There is a reason for this. The filter just plain doesn't work and is not a piece of equipment that one should count on in the backcountry.

Footslogger wrote: "That little pump may be all I am looking for in cases where the water supply is too shallow to dip a nalgene". Actually, the design flaw which requires you to dip the filter head into the water source is not conducive to getting water from a a shallow source. I find that a flexible coffee cup works best for scooping water from a shallow source.

My comments come from experience; I purchased a Coghlan when I first started backpacking and didn't know any better.

[Footslogger]

Thanks MaxPatch ...I guess. Really rained on my parade. But hey, if the thing doesn't work I'm glad to know that up front. Just curioys though if the pump could be modified just a bit to allow for an extended input hose rather than having to dip the entire mechanism in the water. Remember, I'm not considering the use of this as a water "filter" per se ...only as a light weight pump.
Thanks again though for the first hand report. I'd much rather hear it straight from someone who has used the product.

[DebW]

A few comments on the last post:

(1) people are talking about using the Couglan's pump, not it's filter. However, the 2 micron filter should remove cysts (definitely not bacteria) and therefore chemical treatment can be effective with shorter contact time.

(2) I has used extensively the original First Need pump which, like the Couglan's, requires that the pump end be insterted in the water. Though this is often somewhat awkward, requiring that you squat over water, it is doable and gives you control over exactly where you are sucking up water from - ie. you can avoid the algae on the bottom. One could also attach a hose to the inlet if desired

(3) The Couglan's pump would probably not be used at every water fill up - just where the source is shallow or murky (to allow use of siltstopper filtration) and therefore should serve this occassional purpose.

I haven't used the Couglan's myself, but it or something similar seems worth a shot for the purpose being discussed here.

[Footslogger]

DebW ...appreciate your comments. I actually have one of the Coghlan pumps/filters on order and I intend to follow through and experiment with it on my own. You're correct that my intent is to use this only in situations where the water source is to shallow for dipping a nalgene or cup. So ...the vote is still out. I'll post a comment after I get the pump and have played with it a bit.

[max patch]

Yes, my comments above regarding the Coghlan as unacceptable are for its use as a water filter. It should work as a water pump.

However, and this all comes down to personal preference, does use of the Coghlan as a water pump only make sense? In my opinion it doesn't. If I am going to dedicate the bulk and weight of a water pump in my pack it makes sense to carry a filter that will do the job that it is intended to do. And if I'm not going to carry a filter then I'm not going to carry just the pump; I'll get my water from shallow sources by scooping it with a multi-use cup.

[Footslogger]

maxpatch ...you make a good point and I haven't really decided yet whether carrying a pump is really worth it. In 2001 I hiked tha AT with the PUR Hiker and after a while I just packed it away and used PolarPure. This year I'm going with AquaMira so I'm covered on the chemical side. Even if I do like how it works, the pump will definitely be one of those items laying out on the living room floor for "consideration" ...after I get everything else in my pack. Then I'll decide whether it's worth the extra 3 - 4 ounces.
Thanks again for the feedback

[Streamweaver]

I used the cohglans filter/pump for well over a year and it worked just fine! At the time I bought it 2.0 microns was the standard for water filters according to the info I received from many sources! But ofcourse as with everything else somebody comes along saying 2.0 aint good enuff and everybody wants to jump on that bandwagon .As far as Backpacker Mag is concerned they just reject anything that aint in their price bracket! Streamweaver

[RagingHampster]

I think you lost sight of the end-goal here. The pump setup is used along with a pre-filter to make water extraction easier, and make the aquamira's job much more effective (and quicker). It's use in my setup is not meant to provide a sole source of water treatment. There isn't a single filtration system on the market that stands up to alot of use. Ceramics do, but must be scrubbed, crack easily in the cold, and don't filter virus' what so ever. The PUR hiker apparently kicks the bucket atleat once or twice along the length of the AT. It may be free to replace the element, but I don't feel like being 5 or 10 miles into the woods, and having to turn around on a side trail and head into town. All of these filters also retain a large amount of water, making them even heavier.

With my setup you have pump assissted pre-filtered water down to 5 microns, a chemical treatment which zaps all cooties inluding virus', 3 replacement pre-filters, and the ability to treat just with chemicals if the water is crystal clear and plentiful. It also weighs an ounce less than the PUR Hiker setup, even less after the PUR retains a few ounces of water.

[tlbj6142]

I know this is an old thread, but I have a couple of questions...

Footslogger;

Have you had a chance to use the Coghlan pump in the field yet? Do you have to put the pump in the water, or can use a longer inlet hose?

Early in this thread you mentioned using your PUR hiker without the filter. Does that actually work? When I looked at one in the stores, it seemed as though the inside of the filter was an intragal part of the pumping (suction) action.

I really RH's idea of pre-filtering (when needed), but I still need to find a pump.

[Presto]

Has anyone used the siltstopper? I tried it out once on our thru-hike using in conjuction with a pur hiker. Couldn't find replacement filters for it anywhere and it clogged fast (less than 2-weeks). I guess if you are using chemical treatment I don't see the need for a filter. To pump water and use a chemical just seems like way too much work. Maybe a person would be diligent about doing it but remember you are talking mostly about mountain spring water. Many don't use any treatment for this water-not that I would reccomend doing that, but my point is there is typically not much suspended solids. In our entire thru-hike, I only encountered water too nasty to drink one time and no filter or chemical treatment would have gotten me to drink that water- many people used chemicals the whole way and found no problem getting water from shallow sources. I used a pur hiker until the very end when I got sick of replacing filters and went to aqua-mira. If I were to do it again, aquamira would be the only purification equipment I would bring with. Just my 2 cents.

[tlbj6142]

I, too, have often thought that to pump and treat seemed like too much work. I don't plan to pump unless the water is just too silty.

Some have stated, I think even in this thread, that at some points the water was fairly murky. So, some screening/silt removal may be required.

Besides, I don't plan to just hike the AT. Many of the trails in my area have some silty streams or pools. So, I'd like to find a solution for this situation.

Also, if your siltstopper clogged, doesn't that mean there were solids in the water?:D

[DebW]

Pumping water through a siltstopper is MUCH easier than pumping through a 0.3 micron filter. Replacement siltstoppers are readily available and weigh about 1 oz for a package of 3. For small or shallow water sources, I think pumping would be quicker than scooping. I've seen plenty of these types of tiny puddles so I will carry some sort of pump, at least in late summer and fall when water is hard to find.

[Presto]

It is a lot easier to not stir up the bottom of a puddle when you skim the water off the top using a cup. I have found it is near impossible to not stir up water when using a pump. Therefore I would argue that it is partially the method of intake when using a pump that would cause high amounts of silt in the filter. I am not saying that filters are not a good option. I used one for a long way. All I am saying is that for hiking the AT, I belive that redundancies of using a pump AND chemical is overkill. The weight you could save and the simplicity of using one option or the other is highly desirable if you are going to thru-hike.

[tlbj6142]

You bring up a good point about the intake being the cause of a lot of silt in shallow water.

I guess this means I'll have to take a cup. Its a good thing I have plenty of time to hone my techniques before I head off to do thru.

[DebW]

Ironically, the cheap and harder-to-use pumps like the Coughlans or the old First Need can be used without stirring up sediment because they have no inlet hose - you pump while holding the end of the pump itself in the water. Thus, you have excellent control over where you pump from and whether you upset the sediment. Of course this may put you in a rather unbalanced or awkward position while pumping. Everything has trade-offs.

[RagingHampster]

Right now I've been using a plastic funnel, cone style coffee filters, and my coockpot for pre-treating water. We have so much clean water right now from the snow that I usually just chemically treat. I still have my siltstopper and pump system on hand though for later this year when water may become scarce...

[tlbj6142]

I like the idea of using coffee filters and a funnel to help remove the "big chunks". I wonder how well that would work in silty water? If it works well enough, maybe I don't even need a pump/siltstopper thingy.

Back to the pump thing...

I just thought of something else that could be used as a pump to draw water through a siltstopper. How about one of the larger syringes? I know I have seen 200-500ml piston type syringes (for hobbies and/or medical purposes), but I can't seem be able to find a good picture of one online. If I can find one cheap/light enought it might we worth a try.

I figure you could attach a small hose and the siltstopper/screen to the intake. Then draw water into the syringe. Once the syringe is full, just pull the plunger/piston out and pour the "screened" water into a container. When you place the plunger back into the syringe you get a "free" back flush of your filter.

I know this seems combersome to a few of you, but let's face it, you have plenty of time on the trail. If you are willing to wait an extra 10-20 minutes to cook a meal with an ion stove/cozzy combo, what's wrong with taking a few extra minutes to filter/treat water if doing so saves you weight?

Besides as RH pointed out, most of the water doesn't even need to be screened. Just treated. So, this method would only be used rarely.

[RagingHampster]

I need to see how well my coffee filter/funnell system works when water becomes real dirty. If it works well enough I will be taking this sytem over the siltstopper/pump combo.

I can't wait! 5 months left of 50-60hrs/wk and I'll have 12 months off to travel and hike! May 16th I'm taking a vacation though and attempting a thru-hike of the CT/MA/NH Metacomet Monadnock Trail.