View Full Version : Rain Pants - are they needed?
Hi -
I am planning a 5 week thruhike (not on the AT, but CT - thought that's not fully relevant). I would like to hear from people who don't bring rain pants. I believe a rain jacket is important, but I can't convince myself either way about rainpants.
Also, if anyone has relatively cheap (no more than $150) UL rain pants recommendations, I'll greatly appreciate them. UL would have to be approximately 6 oz or less. (I have the marmot precip and some heavy event ones by rei)
THANKS!
mankind117
06-15-2015, 15:33
If you want cheap UL rain pants it is hard to beat frogg toggs. You get the jacket + pants for like 20$ the only problem is that the material is fragile but on a well maintained trail it should be fine, but not appropriate for bushwacking. As for whether to bring them or not you didn't say when you are going. I don't bring rain pants in the summer (June to August) but otherwise I bring them. If it is cold out and you get your pants soaked even though it is your legs that is good way to get cold really fast. I know because I've been there. I remember a bad day in the Virignia moutnains last march, when it was raining, windy, and in the low 40s. Lots of the trail was very overgrown and my pants got soaked because I had not put my raninpants on. I had stand around for a while to make sure people make the right turn. It is amazing how fast the wet pants without the microclimate of the pants sucked the heat out of you. That is the only time I have been worried about hypothermia. I would never got without them unless it was summer and I was really sure that getting my pants soaked will not be dangerous. Around here that is about 3 months of the year.
Traveler
06-15-2015, 15:33
Always a debate, however rain gear isn't designed to keep you dry as much as its designed to keep you warm or perhaps better stated, not let wind and precipitation force you into hypothermia. Light rain in protected areas are one thing, trying to move over a few miles of exposed ridge with a 40 kt wind driven rain is another.
bigcranky
06-15-2015, 15:35
Well, you can get the Zpacks for $165 (http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/wpb_pants.shtml), which is only 10% above your max. They are under 4 oz and look pretty tough.
My wife is one of those who hates rain pants except maybe in the winter. Last summer we were on a longish hike (4 weeks) and I had my homemade rain kilt, and she had nothing over her light nylon trail pants. There were a couple of occasions when she got cold enough that she wished for rain pants. Yeah, you still get wet (I got soaked thru in my rain shell and kilt), but I could manage warmth. She was unable to do so. I'm going to buy her the Zpacks pants, which she would likely wear by themselves, as I often do when it's warm.
So I guess I'm not the guy to argue against some sort of water resistant leg coverings. The CT gets pretty high with some good size thunderstorms.
WalkingStick75
06-15-2015, 15:36
Good points above but it also depends on what section your on and the time of year. You might be better off posting this on the CT thread.
colorado_rob
06-15-2015, 16:05
Always a debate, however rain gear isn't designed to keep you dry as much as its designed to keep you warm or perhaps better stated, not let wind and precipitation force you into hypothermia. Light rain in protected areas are one thing, trying to move over a few miles of exposed ridge with a 40 kt wind driven rain is another.Yep, this exactly. More for warmth (when high/windy and/or wet). And Frog Toggs work fine, though some hate them (user error?) and they are not very durable (you do carry a bit of duct tape, right?).
I ripped the Frogg Toggs the first time I ever put them on...I squatted down in them to put a tent stake in the ground, and ripped out the entire crotch area. I still bring the jacket every trip...and yes, it has a few duct tape strips in it.
Personally, I don't see the point of rain pants unless it's cold out. I just wear Columbia kayaking shorts, which are pretty much board shorts. They dry quickly and I don't have to worry about the extra weight! I will take my rain pants in the late Fall if rain is in the forecast.
I wear a rain jacket that goes halfway to my knees and either shorts or nylon jogging pants that can be wrung out and dry in 15 or 20 minutes.
K2 Travels
06-15-2015, 17:04
Have hiked a lot without rain pants. Biggest issue is not letting your underwear get wet (makes sleeping a bit uncomfortable).
Though I do now carry the rain kilt that ZPacks make. Very light and very good at keeping my knees and above dry (colder weather just roll your long underwear to the knee or above to keep them dry). The kilt also doubles as a ground cloth for your vestibule area or anything that you don't want getting wet (large enough unzipped that it can be a ground cloth and too cover for backpack etc). Great piece of gear.
K2
Starchild
06-15-2015, 17:05
Needed if the temp is low enough for warmth, not water-proofness (wet warm). For rain a rain skirt is better and dryer. Frogtoggs is a great entry level, test it out brand.
Needed if the temp is low enough for warmth, not water-proofness (wet warm). For rain a rain skirt is better and dryer. Frogtoggs is a great entry level, test it out brand.
This time of the year, you will sweat in most rain pants, but it could be a good emergency item if you get caught in freak storm at higher elevations. This time of the year, on the AT, I just carry lightweight nylon jogging shorts.
Most of the time in the Summer, it is better to get wet from rain than be soaked with sweat.
HooKooDooKu
06-15-2015, 17:19
I always take rain pants:
1. Extra warmth layer if needed.
2. Helps keep you dry if caught in a cold rain.
3. Keep the bugs off your legs in camp (if you don't like using deet).
colorado_rob
06-15-2015, 17:30
I ripped the Frogg Toggs the first time I ever put them on...I squatted down in them to put a tent stake in the ground, and ripped out the entire crotch area.Very common! Probably why most hate FT rain pants. I've found (after a couple ripped-out crotches) that simply hiking them up before squatting or making big step over something solves this sever weakness. Basically, they just have too low a crotch in the pant which make them do this. Plus, having the crotch ripped out doesn't really hurt their functionality, in fact, it ventilates them in the important areas.
hmmm...
so if rain pants are more for warmth than dryness, then why would i not want to wear my wool leggings in the rain (wet wool still keeps me warm)?
How do people feel about DWR coatings (home-sprayed or factory)?
colorado_rob
06-15-2015, 18:32
hmmm...
so if rain pants are more for warmth than dryness, then why would i not want to wear my wool leggings in the rain (wet wool still keeps me warm)?
simple answer: too warm and too heavy. Dri Duck pants (AKA Frogg Toggs) weight about 5.5 ounces. A pair of lightweight, quick drying hiking shorts and some Frogg Togg rain pants and you're good to go for legwear on the CT in the summer (I don't carry any other leg wear in CO in the summer, even climbing higher than the CT).
handlebar
06-15-2015, 18:38
Left my rain wrap home for last 200 mile chunk of AZT. Got to Patagonia and was ready to do laundry when I realized an important use: something to wear while my kilt is in the wash.
I prefer the the rain wrap to rain pants. It's not as much as of a sweat box. Mine is very light and packs about the size of a softball. It's fairly cheap from ULA. Served me well on 3 consecutive days of rain in PA one September.
simple answer: too warm and too heavy. Dri Duck pants (AKA Frogg Toggs) weight about 5.5 ounces. A pair of lightweight, quick drying hiking shorts and some Frogg Togg rain pants and you're good to go for legwear on the CT in the summer (I don't carry any other leg wear in CO in the summer, even climbing higher than the CT).
I am not a fan of shorts for hiking (or anything else for that matter), so would you say a pair of lightweight quick-drying hiking pants and a pair of Frogg Toggs would be sufficient? (I've never even heard of Frogg Toggs before now.)
Odd Man Out
06-15-2015, 19:30
I've not has much experience with those 40 deg wind and rain conditions and had the same question. I was wondering if water repellent wind pants would be a suitable substitute? Otherwise I am liking the rain wrap idea.
Now I am starting to wonder about rain-gear in general.... Someone, please correct me if any of the following is wrong. In my understanding anything that's UL and breathable (ex. OR Helium, Marmot Mica, whatever else...) is not really all that water-proof and wets out pretty easily. Basically, these are good as wind-breakers and for light rain, but not beyond that.
Anything that's GoreTex or Event or whatnot is much heavier, significantly more waterproof, and less breathable.
Is anything other than a good old plastic poncho actually legitimately waterproof in heavy rain?
I have no experience with cuben fiber clothing (or anything, for that matter - i am actually abotu to order my first cuben dry sack form zpacks). I understand it's completely waterproof, but is it breathable / comfortable?
My thought is that if it's super windy, wet, and below 40 degrees, I'd want "real" raingear. It doesn't need to be breathable, since I'd be wearing all sorts of layers and not exactly sweating much. I experienced this for several weeks hiking in above the arctic circle. I wore a down jacket under an event rain jacket and wool leggings under rain pants. I survived. But I am not expecting anything as absurd on the CT and I feel no need to carry all my heavy duty gear, since it is indeed heavy. Up until now I've always erred on the side of caution and carried more than the bare necessities. At this point, for health reasons, I really have to lighten my load... so I am trying to figure out what would be the best compromise. In my usual east coast summer hiking, I leave the rain pants at home. According to me, my pants will not be all that wetter from me sweating than from any potential rain. Plus, pants made out of magical fabrics do try pretty fast these days.
PS - Where to the FroggToggs fall on that scale?
Spirit Walker
06-15-2015, 20:44
I've hiked the CDT twice and the PCT. I never wore or needed rain pants on either hike. I wore convertible Supplex pants that kept me warm and kept the bugs off. I wore rain pants on my first AT hike, but sent them home once it warmed up because I sweat so much in them. I'd wear them for heavy snow (e.g. a Feb. start on the AT or a high snow year in the Sierras) but not for a summer hike.
LuckyMan
06-16-2015, 17:09
I had Frogg Toggs on my CT hike last summer and used them a few times. I was glad I had them during a snowstorm in mid-August up on Indian Trail Ridge. I wish I had brought rain mitts or at least latex gloves too. My Frogg Toggs are still in good condition after more than 1,000 miles of trail (true, had them on only occasionally).
I am making tyvak chaps to cover my legs
large garbage bag skirt , with elastic in duck taped rolltop . Cheap, durable, breathable, wind proof, easy to put on and take off. Affordable.
saltysack
06-17-2015, 11:26
+1 ULA rain wrap...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ripped the Frogg Toggs the first time I ever put them on...I squatted down in them to put a tent stake in the ground, and ripped out the entire crotch area.
Ha! This is exactly how I received my trail name.
Cayte03
"Hi -
I am planning a 5 week thruhike (not on the AT, but CT - thought that's not fully relevant)...."
But IT IS very relevant. The Colorado Trail is not at all like the AT. On the AT I never carried rain gear in the summer at all. I just let it rain on me (the rain is warm) and you dry off eventually. That is not the CT. You will be hiking at very high elevation in the Rockies. There is simply no time of the year when that cannot be dangerous and you might not need the rain pants. When a summer storm comes in at 10,000+ feet with driving rain and sometimes sleet and 50 mile per hour winds it gets really cold - the temperature will plummet often by 20-30 degrees and that is from a regular temperature much lower than along the AT. There are places up there on the trail where it is not possible to get down to lower elevation for many hours. If you are soaking wet in a high wind situation for hours up there it can kill you. The rain pants stop the wind and help keep you warm. They are essential. Do not go without them
Check Trailjounals for folks hiking the CT and review their gear lists. Or folks on the CDT in Colo as that is the same thing. Always be careful.
Many years ago I hiked the Weminuche Wilderness section of the CDT with a group. One of the women was advised (by a supposed expert hiker) that long pants/rain pants were not necessary, that one could just stop during the PM thunderstorms if necessary. She was MISERABLE until another hiker loaned her some wind pants that were water resistant. This was in August.
I would not go into the high country without leg protection for temps/wind/rain. These days I use a rain wrap - have found it to be both good wind and rain protection for about 4 OZ.
When in doubt, or if you have to ask, bring 'em.
My thought is that if it's super windy, wet, and below 40 degrees, I'd want "real" raingear. It doesn't need to be breathable, since I'd be wearing all sorts of layers and not exactly sweating much. I experienced this for several weeks hiking in above the arctic circle. I wore a down jacket under an event rain jacket and wool leggings under rain pants. I survived. But I am not expecting anything as absurd on the CT and I feel no need to carry all my heavy duty gear, since it is indeed heavy. Up until now I've always erred on the side of caution and carried more than the bare necessities. At this point, for health reasons, I really have to lighten my load... so I am trying to figure out what would be the best compromise. In my usual east coast summer hiking, I leave the rain pants at home. According to me, my pants will not be all that wetter from me sweating than from any potential rain. Plus, pants made out of magical fabrics do try pretty fast these days.
You will not be experiencing the type of temperatures on the CT in summer that you could hike in multiple layers of wool or down. While moving, a simple wicking layer, maybe a light wool layer and a wind/rain shell will keep you toasty warm in 99.5% of the daytime conditions. Keep any additional insulating layers for after the hiking is done for the day, or during breaks. Your wicking layers will get wet from perspiration, but like you said, they dry quickly. If possible, wear them dry each evening, if you get chilled, change into dry clothes and put the wet ones back on next day - initially miserable, but short lived misery once you start moving.
Rain gear is to keep the wind and driving rain off you, not for keeping you totally dry.
Thread is all over the place making me say but, also consider, what if, if that's so, good pt(s), and......:confused
Thread is all over the place making me say but, also consider, what if, if that's so, good pt(s), and......:confused
Unfortunately this is common here. For a variety of reasons. Foremost is that many folks do not carefully read the OP. For instance this OP is clearly not an experienced hiker and not familiar with the Rockies. If you don't notice that it is easy to give advise which does not help them. Also many posters here do not realize that what 'they' do does not in a great percentage of the cases turn out to be relevant to the actual question and what the poster needs. And others get sidetracked into side discussions which can go anywhere.
What is most important when answering questions posed by new and inexperienced posters is to give them advise which will keep them safe (within the limits of what their experience seems to be). Safety is always first, enjoyment second and whatever trips ones trigger next. Let them start there and then as they learn their way around they can adapt what they are doing based upon their own experience and preferences.
What a very experienced hiker who can hike really fast and knows how to keep themselves out of trouble can do is a long way from the kind of advise one should be giving to a new and inexperienced person. It is often amazing what new people do not know that just seems common knowledge to those who have been doing it so long they don't know they actually had to learn it once themselves. Thus often advise from the best hikers is way off the mark. I myself do many things which I would not tell a beginner about as I feel a responsibility not to get someone hurt by telling them to do something which is beyond their current capabilities. I always try to pretend I am giving advise to someone I care about.
People are infinitely capable of hurting themselves. For instance my wife and I just got back from a hike here in AZ with the temps just over 100F in the sun. And what do we see out there but 2 adults hiking together who had 2 1/2 miles to go to the cars with no water left. And a father and his 2 sons about 10 years old each and all of their water bottles were empty and they had 3 miles to go. None of them wearing hats to keep the sun off their heads either. The poor kids looked miserable. Just begging for trouble.
Left my rain wrap home for last 200 mile chunk of AZT. Got to Patagonia and was ready to do laundry when I realized an important use: something to wear while my kilt is in the wash.
I prefer the the rain wrap to rain pants. It's not as much as of a sweat box. Mine is very light and packs about the size of a softball. It's fairly cheap from ULA. Served me well on 3 consecutive days of rain in PA one September.
I use the ULA rain kilt. It rolls up into something about the size between an egg and a tennis ball.
Don't use rain pants in the heat anymore, use a rain kilt. Much cooler. In the winter though I will probably still use rain pants.
Here is a journal entry from the CDT for 10 June this year. The description is of their first day going north into the San Juans (southern Colo). Btw this was a 9 mile day not counting the getting lost. What kind of gear would you want to be carrying?
"Brutal. We discussed it and this is the hardest day on any of the trails. And it started from the second we woke up. We set up tents last night because the weather was predicting a thunderstorm. It didn't start to rain until our 430 alarm went off. So we reset the alarm for every hr and hoped that the rain would stop. It finally did and we hit the trail by 7. Within a mile we were in snow. This snow is different than the high Sierra much more wet and soft. Our feet were instantly frozen. We scrambled in and out of snow for the first 3 or 4 miles. Then we finally put on the snowshoes. One of the best investment s I've a ever made. After the 4 miles we accidentally started to follow the wrong ridge. Once we realized we had to climb a very steep 1000 foot slope over snow and snow melt streams. Once we arrived at thethe top we ended up finding a small cornice that we had to get on top of. Once on the ridge a storm blew in hail, rain, thunder, and lighting. We guickly dipped below the ridgeline to avoid lighting strikes and set out in the open while hail and rain pounded . Lighting bolts hit close to us and thunder exploded like a shotgun right next to your ear. We all were punching the air and tapping the feet to keep hypothermia from setting in. We sat there for an hr waiting on the storm to pass. We returned to the ridge in a thick fog that had been around all morning. At times you couldn't see 20 ft ahead of you. Once on the ridge a second storm rolled in. Pushing rain sideways at 30 MPH. We were in such a hurry to regain warmth that we misread the maps and took the wrong turn. This added an extra 4 miles to the days journey. 4 miles never comes easy in the snow. Once we realized our mistake and relocated the trail the sun shown itself for close to 30 secs and the third rainstorm moved in. We all have been soaked the entire day and doing our best to make it through the snow safely. Everything seemed to be against us. No breaks because we were to cold. The campsite we had planned was snow covered. We had to hike further on to the next available campsite. Even camp was hard. Tent blowing everywhere while trying to set up due to the crazy wind. Even had a hard time getting into my stupid Ramen packet. So glad to be in my sleeping bag with a hand warmer by my frozen feet. No way tomorrow can be harder. Snow is beautiful but no easy task. I'm so exhausted and can't shake the chill...."
bigcranky
06-17-2015, 19:05
What a very experienced hiker who can hike really fast and knows how to keep themselves out of trouble can do is a long way from the kind of advise one should be giving to a new and inexperienced person.
Yes, this. A thousand times this. The rain pants question comes up here on WB every winter, 99% of the time for beginning northbound hikers in March in Georgia. Those folks NEED rain pants, but the vast majority of replies are "I just get wet, you don't need them."
Then in this case we get lots of "well I don't wear them in the summer" with the assumption that the hike is on the AT, when in fact the CT does require rain shell pants in the summer.
My general feeling about this sort of question is, if you have to ask, you probably need it. :)
MuddyWaters
06-17-2015, 19:37
You dont need rain pants.......until you do.
Skurka admitted he made a mistake not bringing them on CT. That should convey something to you.
They spent afternoons holed up in tent during thunderstorms to stay warm, instead of hiking.
Result, is that to save a couple oz of wt, you carry lbs more food because you hike slower overall.
Driducks pants are 4oz. Silnylon can be 3 oz. You wont even notice the wt.
Thread is all over the place making me say but, also consider, what if, if that's so, good pt(s), and......:confused
Unfortunately this is common here. For a variety of reasons. Foremost is that many folks do not carefully read the OP. For instance this OP is clearly not an experienced hiker and not familiar with the Rockies. If you don't notice that it is easy to give advise which does not help them. Also many posters here do not realize that what 'they' do does not in a great percentage of the cases turn out to be relevant to the actual question and what the poster needs. And others get sidetracked into side discussions which can go anywhere.
What is most important when answering questions posed by new and inexperienced posters is to give them advise which will keep them safe (within the limits of what their experience seems to be). Safety is always first, enjoyment second and whatever trips ones trigger next. Let them start there and then as they learn their way around they can adapt what they are doing based upon their own experience and preferences.
What a very experienced hiker who can hike really fast and knows how to keep themselves out of trouble can do is a long way from the kind of advise one should be giving to a new and inexperienced person. It is often amazing what new people do not know that just seems common knowledge to those who have been doing it so long they don't know they actually had to learn it once themselves. Thus often advise from the best hikers is way off the mark. I myself do many things which I would not tell a beginner about as I feel a responsibility not to get someone hurt by telling them to do something which is beyond their current capabilities. I always try to pretend I am giving advise to someone I care about.
People are infinitely capable of hurting themselves. For instance my wife and I just got back from a hike here in AZ with the temps just over 100F in the sun. And what do we see out there but 2 adults hiking together who had 2 1/2 miles to go to the cars with no water left. And a father and his 2 sons about 10 years old each and all of their water bottles were empty and they had 3 miles to go. None of them wearing hats to keep the sun off their heads either. The poor kids looked miserable. Just begging for trouble.
Here Here +1. The most sagacious post I've had the enjoyment of viewing in awhile.
garlic08
06-18-2015, 07:34
I've been carrying a pair of homemade silnylon pants that weigh 3 oz on summer hikes for over ten years now. I'm a total klutz with a sewing machine and found a friend to design and make them for me. I hardly ever use them, but I've been in the Rockies long enough to not make the mistake of leaving them behind. I did not carry them during the summer on my AT thru, but I'll definitely bring them on a CT thru.
I agree that staying warm while wet is a special skill that has to be acquired with lots of experience. It can be done, but it should be done carefully, probably not in the Colorado backcountry on a remote thru hike.
I no longer use breathable gear in summer. As the OP surmised, once breathable fabrics "wet out" they no longer breathe and are basically plastic bags. And they can wet out from the inside from sweat especially in high humidity. There can be a problem in extremely low temps if condensation freezes on the inside. Breathable gear is really nice in certain conditions like intermittent showers in low humidity, and in the winter with knowledge of its limitations, but I can't justify the cost and weight for my hiking style and budget. Silnylon works fine for me, again with some experience and knowledge of its limitations.
bannerstone
06-18-2015, 08:32
I use ultrasil nylon set of lukeultralite.com though he makes pertex and event under your budget. Don't use often but mostly for wind protection.
To someone's comment about long waisted jackets, I was talking with Luke a couple days ago and he said he's been starting to get orders for custom long jackets that run down past mid thigh. I also like the idea of not having cold rain running down into my underwear.
David
Thank you everyone who has responded. I very appreciate your thoughts and advice.
Wülfgang
06-18-2015, 10:36
I use the ULA rain kilt. It rolls up into something about the size between an egg and a tennis ball.
Me too, it's awesome. Light as a feather.