5 weeks with a 5 year old

[B4its2late]

Hi all,
My husband and I are new to the forum. He is an experienced hiker and backpacker. I grew up in VA and have hiked a lot of the trails in Shenandoah, but I have never done any backpacking. Before you roll your eyes, please know that we go into this with a bunch of research and a solid back out plan.

We are hoping to do as much of Shenandoah over 5 weeks in July/August as we can. Currently we have a few abort mission plans, the main one being that we will never be more than a 90 minute car ride from a friend or family member that can pick us up. We have also discussed taking both cars and "hop-scothcing" with them. I'd prefer not to do that, but am open to most options. The plan right now is to go out for two weeks, come home and then go out for another 3.

We plan on hammock camping, husband has built hammocks and tarps for us all, including the dog. They have all been vetted in thunderstorms. We figure this is best since we may not make it to a shelter every night.

We have both read the buddybackpacker blog and have gotten several good tips off of there, but if anyone has anything additional to add, we would appreciate it.

Thanks, we are all looking forward to our great adventure.

[Feral Bill]

I'm guessing from your title that you are taking a five year old that's not the dog. If you do not plan one even moderate miles, you should be fine. At worst, you spend a while waiting for that rescue ride from family. Expect to spend many productive hours examining every bug, rock, and stick that catches juniors eye. You can't beat that.

[FlyFishNut]

Sounds like a great plan! Keep us posted and throw some pics up as well.
Good Luck!

[B4its2late]

I'm guessing from your title that you are taking a five year old that's not the dog. If you do not plan one even moderate miles, you should be fine. At worst, you spend a while waiting for that rescue ride from family. Expect to spend many productive hours examining every bug, rock, and stick that catches juniors eye. You can't beat that.Oops, yes our son will turn 5 while we are on this adventure. We figure we will follow his lead and his pace. I'm exploring apps right now to see if there is a bug one where you can take a picture and it identifies the insect. There are ones for flowers and birds that I have already gotten.

[Just Bill]

My fella will be five in November.
Not sure how much walking you have tried with your son- it could go either way.
We've been walking since he has- started small with just walking around the block and went from there.

On easy terrain, he can do 3-4 miles at a crack, which is pushing. Not that hard to get him to walk two miles without a break.
But that doesn't mean it's all over, we can do that cycle a few times a day if he's feeling frisky, but at worst he can do a morning trip and an afternoon.

Forget the apps- bring some books- much more fun and reliable for a kid. You put a phone in my kids hand and all that will happen is that he'll want to play the games on it- not check out bugs. The books go better. Same with a deck of cards and some dice. You can make up lots of little games with those things. Save the battery on the phone for the odd meltdown- store a show or a game he likes. Sometimes a half hour of something "normal" is needed to balance out all the new experiences.

It will be hot- bring a tarp for afternoon shade and naps. The hammocks will help.

Hit the trail- find out how your son does now. My son likes hiking, and likes camping, and likes backpacking. But not really everything all at once. It may turn out that a car camping trip down the trail will be a better balance. Or he could love it, or hate it- better to get an idea before you plan the whole trip.

My son's best day is a 20 mile day. Sorta, he walked about 7 of that, slept in the pack about 7 of it, and laughed and slapped his "horseydada" while he rode in the pack. Having a pack to haul kiddo is helpful- gets hard to carry a kid for too much more than a mile or two- and sometimes you can't pull over and camp anywhere you want.

He did a 10 on his own- 4 rounds of hiking over about 12 hours. 45 minutes a mile isn't too uncommon.

Otherwise sounds like you guys are in great shape- got it covered- and providing there is an interest on your son's part- you will have a great trip.

Get the kid out, see how they do. I wouldn't be horribly surprised though to find you will get
further than you think. 5 miles a day would put you down the 100 miles of the AT in 20 days- add 50% and you still have 30 days.

[Bronk]

I'd wonder whether a 5 year old will want to get up and walk all day every day...for five weeks. The second thing I'd wonder is if a 5 year old should be sleeping in a hammock by himself...kids are all different, but do you think your son will feel safe and secure in a hammock by himself? Will you be ok with it? Not knowing if he has got up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and wandered off and got lost...or other less benign scenarios. If I had a small kid with me I'd want to be sleeping in a tent. Be prepared to end the first two week hike early and subsequently cancel the second one...and to blame yourself when that happens, not the kid.

[Monkeyboy42]

I'd wonder whether a 5 year old will want to get up and walk all day every day...for five weeks. The second thing I'd wonder is if a 5 year old should be sleeping in a hammock by himself...kids are all different, but do you think your son will feel safe and secure in a hammock by himself? Will you be ok with it? Not knowing if he has got up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and wandered off and got lost...or other less benign scenarios. If I had a small kid with me I'd want to be sleeping in a tent. Be prepared to end the first two week hike early and subsequently cancel the second one...and to blame yourself when that happens, not the kid.

A little harsh i think... I'm the other parent in planning this crazy adventure, so...

About the hammocks - It is very easy to rig two hammocks side-by-side from the same tree, and under the same tarp. One of us will always be within 18" of him at night. His hammock is a DIY Hennessey with integrated net that he has to unzip. Mine has a fronkey style net. this means that for him to get out he has to unzip his net, which will make noise and bump into me. My fronkey style net allows me to hop out without doing anything.

Long answer short I'm not really worried about it, and we're testing it out this week to be sure.

Having hiked the AT through Shenandoah before I feel that the hammocks will allow for easier pitching at a moment's notice when we've only gone 2 miles, and can't find a site immediately.

If we end the hike early we end it early. I actually hesitate to even put a time frame on it, because of this possibility. This is why we are planning easy bailout scenarios.

Why would we blame the kid for the ending early? Really, why would we blame any of us for anything? If it's not right for one of us then it's not right for any of this.

[Just Bill]

That's a decent point on the hammock- if your husband is making them- my son has done best thus far in a bridge hammock that I made for him. It is more stable and easier to get in and out of for little folks. With their low weight it can be pitched almost on the ground. Dutch has the double hammock stuff too so you can hang two hammocks side by side easily.

But yar- you have to know your kid won't wander off and that he will wake you up. I sleep like a drunken corpse- you can tie some bells on the hammock which wakes me up at least. My son hates sleeping with us generally- that trick stopped working last season. Little a-hole started insisting on putting himself to bed lately too so sharing a tent/bed isn't always a winner either.

Practice at home, but a tent maybe best.

[Monkeyboy42]

I should add that he has decent endurance. Where we live is not mountainous by any stretch though. I'm actually taking him camping at Shenandoah this week for three nights. We'll be car camping, but I'll taking him out on lots of day hikes to see how he handles the terrain and the experience. I don't want to just throw him into section hiking.

He's pretty darn excited about the whole thing though. We'll see how it works.

[Monkeyboy42]

That's a decent point on the hammock- if your husband is making them- my son has done best thus far in a bridge hammock that I made for him. It is more stable and easier to get in and out of for little folks. With their low weight it can be pitched almost on the ground. Dutch has the double hammock stuff too so you can hang two hammocks side by side easily.

But yar- you have to know your kid won't wander off and that he will wake you up. I sleep like a drunken corpse- you can tie some bells on the hammock which wakes me up at least. My son hates sleeping with us generally- that trick stopped working last season. Little a-hole started insisting on putting himself to bed lately too so sharing a tent/bed isn't always a winner either.

Practice at home, but a tent maybe best.

Our's is the opposite. He won't let us sleep if he wakes up. We're trying to condition him to entertain himself when he wakes up at 5:00 am most days. Largely he's conditioned us instead to wake up at the drop of a pin.

[Just Bill]

My mom has been rubbing her hands together for years waiting for me to have my own kids while she cackles in the background, "Payback is a bitch"
No matter how much whisky I give mine the night before he's up at 6:00 AM every day.

Overall I think you guys will do damn fine. Other than all your fancy hammock talking :rolleyes: you both sound prepared and ready for this. It's the shennies- there's waysides, lodges and a damn highway running though the park- couldn't pick a better place for it. Worst case it's hot and you Aquablaze for a week.

Welcome to WhiteBlaze BTW!

And most importantly- Good for all three of you.
Take your children outdoors as often as possible.

[naturlred]

I say go for it and make the most of the adventure no matter how long or short it lasts. When you become parents you learn over time to adjust and adapt. Everyone has different parenting styles and family routines. If sleeping in a hammocks as a family sounds fun....go for it. If hiking for days exploring what mother nature has to offer....go for it. Your son will remember this experience forever....good or bad.....and maybe someday give his children the same experience.

I would love to hear how this turns out when it's over. I often blog about what parents should try with their children but rarely do they ever put forward the effort to do anything like this. I am delighted to hear that you and your wife are attempting this adventure. Good luck!

naturalred.wordpress.com

[lemon b]

Started bring my youngest (now 20) out when he was still in diapers. My partner and helper was his older brother (now 28). First couple of times we set up a base camp at Sperry Road Campground on Mt. Greylock and went off hiking circuit routes each day., that way I kept my weight down so that when necessary he could go on Daddies head. As he got older we shared the weight more, beginning with simple concepts such as you carry your own food and water, added on as in sleeping bag, shelter, etc. By the time he was five the three of us would average in the 4 mile range. Be prepared for many stops, usually caused by curiosity more so than fatigue.
The three of us had loads of fun as I'm sure you all will. As of note sometimes the two of them would venture out on their own side hikes. Limited to about a mile. The older one was well educated in the use of map and compass, therefore I always knew pretty much where they were.
Good times, and as they have grown older the two have become very different people, but the love of the woods remains within both.

[gsingjane]

Hello B4,

One thing I noticed from your initial post, that doesn't seem to have been addressed here, is that while your husband is an experienced backpacker, you yourself haven't gone at all yet. Two weeks, or three weeks, or five weeks, is a long long time for a first trip. And, as someone who takes out kids (mine and other people's) all the time, I have to say that taking a child, any child, along adds a level of stress and tension that can, at times, feel pretty overwhelming. I wonder, not to disrespect your plans at all but, whether a quick overnight or weekend trip, at least to prepare a bit for this, might be in order (whether with or without your son or husband). I just know how I would have felt, when I was first getting my feet wet in backpacking, if I had been responsible for my child in addition.

Just a thought, no eye rolling!

Jane

[Mr. Bumpy]

We started backpacking with our son when he quit crapping diapers. I took a watch and set a timer for 15 minutes or so. Every time it beeped meant time to take a break and play with the bugs. It kept him motivated to keep moving during the long part of the day, and kept us on some sort of pace/schedule. We never had him out for more than 4-5 days at a time when he was that young, but now he is 12 and he still looks forward to a week long hike every summer. Enjoy your trip!

[bigcranky]

My mom has been rubbing her hands together for years waiting for me to have my own kids while she cackles in the background, "Payback is a bitch"
No matter how much whisky I give mine the night before he's up at 6:00 AM every day.

You're doing it wrong. The whisky goes in the parent.

[bigcranky]

We started our kid on dayhikes when she was maybe two, and her first overnight at 4 (the Cold Mountain loop in Virginia).

I guess my first reaction is that I'd want to start with a couple of overnights and maybe a long weekend before taking a two week hike. But that's up to you, the rest is just logistics.

Shenandoah is a fine place for a backpacking trip. One thing to note, though, is that some parts of the park have limited water along the AT route - in the southern third it's basically just at shelters, which are roughly 13 miles apart. Once you get into the central section there are picnic areas and campgrounds where you can get water, as well as springs at the shelters. So it might be difficult to plan to pull up short of a shelter if there is no water.

Our daughter had her own hammock at age 12 (she swiped mine). If your five year old is happy with it, great.

Good luck and have fun.

[B4its2late]

Thank you all for the information we are quite excited. You brought up some points that we hadn't considered, and others we had.

Grateful to be a part of this community.

[Spirit Walker]

You might want to check out Cindy Ross' book, "Kids in the Wild" She and Todd began backpacking for 6-8 weeks at a time with her kids when they were still in diapers. They section hiked the CDT with the kids. I know she had some good advice about going out with young children and dealing with short attention spans, etc.

SNP is a good place to begin backpacking because the trails are cleared and easy to follow. I met a 5 year old once who was hiking through dense overgrown trail. She was really upset because all the brush was at her face height. All the wildlife makes it interesting too.

[B4its2late]

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A few pictures from this past weekend's adventures. First foray into hammock camping, hiking, and rock climbing. He can't wait to go back. We can't wait for our adventure. It would have been even better if he hadn't gotten sick.

[lemon b]

Priceless.

[LittleRock]

Sorry to hijack the thread. My son will be 2 in April and I'd love to start taking him out for some day hikes on local trails (easy to moderate terrain) next spring. Any suggestions on what to plan for distance, what to expect for pace, how often to stop, what to bring, etc.?

If it helps, he is very active and loves being outdoors. Right now he will play outside in our yard for 2 hours straight and sometimes still throw a fit when we try to bring him inside.

[squeezebox]

Do keep Plan B and your bail out plans warmed up, just in case.

[Just Bill]

Sorry to hijack the thread. My son will be 2 in April and I'd love to start taking him out for some day hikes on local trails (easy to moderate terrain) next spring. Any suggestions on what to plan for distance, what to expect for pace, how often to stop, what to bring, etc.?

If it helps, he is very active and loves being outdoors. Right now he will play outside in our yard for 2 hours straight and sometimes still throw a fit when we try to bring him inside.

No worries about the hijack, OP has not returned since starting the thread.

Start with walks around the block... despite the energy actually focusing on walking down the trail is a different matter. A kid that can do anything for more than an hour is generally impressive. I think by mid 2's my son finally made it a mile at a crack, but we started with simply walking around the block after dinner. When weather permits if you have sidewalks or a safe place he also enjoys barefoot walking which helps both of us.

As far as miles- He's pretty much "hit his birthday" since two... as in by the time he was turning three he could do 3 miles max at a somewhat steady pace. Same with turning 4. Pace is all over the place from .5 MPH to 5 MPH- don't plan on anything happening, just go with it.

I'd strongly suggest a kid carrier. It's not hard to get them out for a couple of hours at a crack, but rests, snacks, and naps make for a more enjoyable day for all. Thier batteries are all juiced up, but they burn down fast, and recharge almost as fast with an hour's break.

A few weeks back we did a 16 ish mile out and back trip, he turned five a week later. That's his longest trip so far, but it's still a crapshoot; for both of us.

We started about 10 am or so, we took all day with me carrying him some in the middle to do 9-10 miles. Plus the trail is a bit of a green tunnel when you're only 3' tall, lol. A perspective to keep in mind as sometimes there ain't much to see down there, and sometimes they see things you don't from way up there. We had a great time the first few hours, there was a nice break spot three miles in, but by mile two and half he'd completely crapped out and I pushed him a bit to finish out the stretch.

It was a bit of a dreary day that was supposed to clear up, but never quite gave up a light mist nor got much past 50. We packed SUL as I could so I didn't have much extra anything along. I should have had another bit of clothes for him, so I have to admit he was a hair underdressed for the day. He didn't want to put too many other clothes on cause Daddy didn't, but he was a bit chilled, and I should have made him wear another layer earlier on as the day wore on him. He had a bit of a typical toddler meltdown at the end of the day, didn't want to eat his favorite food- buttered noodles. And was a bit grumpy and missing mommy, he told me he wasn't having fun and my heart sank.

The next morning after a lazy breakfast and a slow pack up we meandered and goofed for about 3 miles over 3+ hours. But we watched a great blue heron catching fish and encountered several other wonders. Kids are good rose smellers. We took about an hourish break, then he ripped off 3 miles in well under an hour, running at least a full mile of it because we were playing a game chasing each others shadows. He laughed for a mile straight and I thought he was going to explode. We were back to the car by 1pm and after speed hiking at record setting pace he still wanted to play at the park before we drove to get breakfast.

I told him I'd treat him to breakfast after the trip so we stopped on the way home. The two of us sat for a while chatting then fell into silence as I waited on him to finish off the adult breakfast he likes to order. As I stared off in space and reflected on our trip a good 10-15 minutes went by. I was wondering about pushing a bit the first day, if it was too late in the season, and how much fun my little guy had or if I'd just dragged him along. I wondered if I'd ruined it with a bit too ambitious trip as I'm still prone to do.

Suddenly a little thump hit my shoulder and two little arms wrapped my back and chest. He didn't say a word as I turned to him and smiled. He just nodded his head once and smiled back.

When I got home I talked the trip over with my wife, who is a professional mommy (has a degree in early childhood development and has run several programs.) She told me something worth telling- Little ones live in the moment, with unformed emotions that don't always mean what they appear to. The important part- don't take it personally. I was pretty down about that first night, but it was just a blip on my son's radar. He was asleep ten minutes after he said he wasn't having fun. And since talking with him since, the only lasting emotion and memory he has is the same one he mustered up when he slapped that big bear hug on me. As far as we're both concerned- it was the bestest trip ever and we should go again yesterday.

So... just get out and see what happens.
Every kid is different, every mile is different. It won't go perfect. It may even be unpleasant.
With the kiddos it's not the smiles, the miles, the roses, or the occasional tears in between, but the hug at the end that matters.

And the most important point my wife makes is the simplest- kids just want to be with those they love- the rest is just details.
They don't actually form memories as much as we tend to think, they form associations, relationships, and bonds.
Somewhere way back in their heads they will associate the woods in there too, so no worries about that either.
It doesn't matter where you go, what you do, for how long, how many miles or if you mess it up. You just need to go.



(and probably you should get an osprey poco plus, put in spare clothes, snacks, and some of daddy's special juice (gatorade), fishies (swedish and gold) to cover all your bases and be prepared in the meantime)

[LittleRock]

Thanks Bill! Quite an interesting experience. Glad your son ended up enjoying it and hope he continues to enjoy it!

Right now, I'm planning to stick to car camping with my son until he is at least 8. Mostly because I am a small person and carrying him, his gear, and my gear would destroy my back. I'm hoping by the time he's 8, he will be able to carry a school-size backpack 5 miles - then we will try some overnight hikes.

We're already walking around the neighborhood - he already knows to stay out of other people's yards and to get on the sidewalk whenever a car is coming. But going to the neighborhood entrance and back (about 1/2 mile round trip) takes at least 30 minutes, since he is like a puppy and wants to stop and explore everything. And half the time he still wants to be carried up the hill on the way back.

Right now I have the Beco carrier, which I used frequently and loved until my son was about a year old, upon which time my son decided he would never be still unless he was either asleep or watching TV. Now I just carry him in my arms when he gets tired, because within 5 minutes he always decides he wants to get down and walk again. Getting in and out of the carrier several times was actually slowing our pace.

I live near a small lake with a 1.5 mile trail going around it, so including the neighborhood walk would put us right at 2 miles. I am hoping to try this with him next spring after he turns 2. Planning for a 2-3 hour trip sounds about right - the only thing that still has me worried is changing a diaper on the trail.

[Just Bill]

You're more or less doing what we did/do. (we have an 18 mo too now)
Our neighborhood pond has a 1 ish mile loop trail and the walk to it and back rounds it out to 2mi.
There is also a "prairie" trail there too. Plus numerous paved bike trails that let us step up the distances as he grew. Doing a walk with a playground/picnic break in the middle is another way to make the roundtrip work as well. Though be prepared for them to crap out on the way home.

As we can... most of the time we bring the stroller for the diaper bag. Though a few wipes in the baggie and laying down your jacket works fine as a changing table in a pinch.

The Poco Plus has a good sized pack underneath it... so worked great as an off road stroller and still works for backpacking a Tipi sized load. Our last trip (water is bad) had me around 30+lbs since I started with a gallon of water and then tossed in the boy and was close to 70lbs. I like that pack because going solo dad it is big enough to hold everything and strong enough to carry him and gear when needed. It also has grown very well and handled 12 month olds up to 5 year olds thus far. That said- I am seriously beyond the load rating so take it with a grain of salt and that kind of hauling sounds beyond what you'd care to do.

That said- the bulk of our trips are car camping trips and it's hard to go wrong there. We are starting to give my son a pack and working on that. Plus you can take as many dayhikes as you like while car camping and even "backpack" that way with backups in the car if needed.

My son is cautious and careful, my daughter is a reckless crazy bitch. Point being- learning about crossing streets, stopping, holding hands, and listening are just as important on the trail- so good skills to work on either way. My son also take 'sponsibility as a big brother seriously and watches out for our daughter which is handy.

The curious puppy effect won't fade for many years, lol.

[OCDave]

Two years old is ideal for using the backpack kid carriers. While they are a bit spendy ($200-$300), they are rentable at REI. With the kid carrier, there is less need to restrict your own hiking goals. We used the kid carriers to facilitate longer hikes to scenic back-country sites. Simply pop the kid in and out based upon their energy level. I recall the kids hiking/walking occurred mostly during breaks and at destinations and trail highlights (especially steps and blue berry bushes). At 2, their hiking will be measured in minutes not miles. Depending on the size of your kid, you might get a year to a year and a half use out of the carrier.

Good Luck