Land Nav

[FlyFishNut]

This is an off-shoot of the missing hiker thread, RIP.

There was some discussion about Land Nav and going off trail -

VameLungeon suggested this book
http://www.amazon.com/Be-Expert-Map-Compass-Orienteering/dp/0020292651/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1433928617&sr=8-2&keywords=expert+map+compass

It came in yesterday and I've been enjoying this quirky little book. Thanks for referring it, Vame.

LandNav is just like any other skill - you need to practice it. I'm going to brush up on it and maybe even do some off trail drills soon just for fun.

QUESTION: I still have my old Military style compass that does just fine - but was curious if any of y'all had a preference for a good compass?? I like the look of the clear base style ones and this one is pricey, but I like the different scales on it

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cammenga174-D3-T-Tritium-Protractor-Compass/1827125.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D4294738599 %26Ne%3D4294738599%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dcom passes%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_l%3D Header%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26WTz_st%3DSearchRefinements%26form _state%3DsearchForm%26search%3Dcompasses%26searchT ypeByFilter%3DAllProducts%26x%3D10%26y%3D6&Ntt=compasses

I also like the basic clear base ones by Silva....

My Old Man was a map junkie and we would be canoeing the Broad or Catawba river and he would whip out his 7-1/2min map and compass and puff is chest out and say, "I can tell at any moment where I am within just a few yards. Hell, I could call in an air strike or artillery right now" - at 9 years old, I was never sure who our enemy was on the Catawba River, but I'm sure the Old Man would have called in close-air-support had we needed it.

It's so damn hot out right now, I'm enjoying dragging my maps out - planning some trips for when the heat breaks.

[RockDoc]

The clear base ones by Silva or Brunton are better because you can lay them on a map and measure or plot bearings using the protractor built into the clear base. Being able to plot/measure bearings is a great advantage to find your location in emergencies. I look for compasses that can be accurately sighted at eye height. Some have a mirror so you can read the bearing while sighting, and this is an advantage is you do much orienteering. (the last time I discusses this, Outside stole my info and published it as their own ideas). Hi, Outside IP steelers!

[FlyFishNut]

Agreed - we were issued a compass with the wire and flip up magnifier to see the compass face and a separate protractor for plotting etc. I like the idea of clear with built in protractor, too.

[Another Kevin]

Clear baseplate and adjustable declination are the features that I tell people to look for. A sighting mirror is nice to have, but in the East the sight lines are seldom long enough that you need that accurate a sight. Generally in the East, if you have distant known objects to sight on, you know where you are, unless you've quite forgotten which mountain you were climbing! The arid West is quite different, and a lensatic or mirror sight comes in very handy.

I also recommend carrying an altimeter. Some fairly cheap watches, like the Casio SGW-400, have surprisingly accurate ones. Or there's the venerable Sun 203/204 analog altimeters. An altimeter makes any contour line into a handrail or backstop.

And don't forget the ranger beads.

[Rolex]

Clear baseplate and adjustable declination are the features that I tell people to look for. A sighting mirror is nice to have, but in the East the sight lines are seldom long enough that you need that accurate a sight. Generally in the East, if you have distant known objects to sight on, you know where you are, unless you've quite forgotten which mountain you were climbing! The arid West is quite different, and a lensatic or mirror sight comes in very handy.

I also recommend carrying an altimeter. Some fairly cheap watches, like the Casio SGW-400, have surprisingly accurate ones. Or there's the venerable Sun 203/204 analog altimeters. An altimeter makes any contour line into a handrail or backstop.

And don't forget the ranger beads.

I have one of mine that is a Silva Huntsman which is the closing one with the mirror and the scale along one edge to use. It doesn't have adjustable declination which like Kevin said is a strong plus. It has the declination written on the cover with a fine tip sharpie for the West Coast (for the PCT) and for the east Coast (for Vermont and Long Trail) Something like -14 West to +14 East. (that could be backwards. That's WHY I wrote it on there!) Been that way for 10-15 years. Anywhere in the country in the middle, I guesstomate.

[Offshore]

I look for three things (in order of importance) - 1. declination adjustment, 2. baseplate for use on maps, and 3. a sighting mirror, ideally with a bubble level, for projecting a course or sighting direction to a landmark. My personal preference is for a 0 - 360 vs. a quadrant dial, but that comes from years of field geology and is only a personal preference. The Silva Rangers (available in 0 - 360 or quadrant dials) meet all the criteria, weigh ~2.5 ounces, and have a MSRP of about $55.

[rocketsocks]

http://www.thecompassstore.com/baseplate-compasses.html

[rocketsocks]

I like this one, but do not own it.

http://www.thecompassstore.com/dakar.html

[Another Kevin]

I like this one, but do not own it.

http://www.thecompassstore.com/dakar.html

Nice feature set. That said, I've hated lensatics ever since my doc inflicted trifocals on me. How well made is it?

[RangerZ]

And don't forget the ranger beads.



I'm so old school that I just tie/untie knots.

[FlyFishNut]

I had to pick up my Mt Bike from REI for repairs just now and got this one -- and I used my points:

http://www.rei.com/product/890930/suunto-m-3-d-leader-compass

has adjustable declination and a nice baseplate with multiple scales - metric and imperial.

[rickb]

I look for three things (in order of importance) - 1. declination adjustment...

I respect your style, but I expect most people would be better served by getting one without (or forever ignoring the one that the compass may have) and just drawing lines pointing to the magnetic north -- either literally or in the minds eye-- on the map.

Especially if you are a bit dyslexic.

[Another Kevin]

I respect your style, but I expect most people would be better served by getting one without (or forever ignoring the one that the compass may have) and just drawing lines pointing to the magnetic north -- either literally or in the minds eye-- on the map.

Especially if you are a bit dyslexic.

Hmm, I'd have thought that the dyslexics among us would do better setting the declination once on the compass and then forgetting about it that they would trying to remember "timid virgins make dull company at weddings" or "Chicago dead men vote twice at elections."

[peakbagger]

I definitely like declination adjustment. Suunto makes a good compass. I use a sighting compass http://su.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/35091-103477/suunto-marine-compass.html?cid=80683&chid=4272&gclid=cltotoibmmycfcgxhwodlwsa8g for bushwhacking and following the lines on my AT boundary section, unfortunately it doesn't have declination adjustment but for running long lines, its hard to beat.

[Offshore]

I respect your style, but I expect most people would be better served by getting one without (or forever ignoring the one that the compass may have) and just drawing lines pointing to the magnetic north -- either literally or in the minds eye-- on the map.

Especially if you are a bit dyslexic.

Then its just one more thing to remember (or forget) or just mess up in the field. With declination ranging from 5 - 15 degrees from true north in the areas along the the trail, it can make a big difference.

[FlyFishNut]

Do y'all typically go to NOAA for declination and are you pretty religious about it for every hike/location??

[fudgefoot]

I carry one of my orienteering compasses while backpacking. Here is a link to an O' gear vendor:

http://home.comcast.net/~galeso/O_Gear.html

The Moscow, Suunto and Silva models are very popular, particularly the thumb style. You wear them on your thumb and can place them flat on the map to check direction, take bearings, etc. To me, one of the key compass features is it must have good needle dampening. Most models use an oil filled system to achieve this. Over longer time frames (typically >1 year or more), air bubbles can accumulate inside the housing but the compass will still generally be usable as long as you keep any bubbles away from the needle.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

........a map, a compass, and the skillset to use them. Years of field geology also puts me in the map/compass support group. I see little point in having a compass without an adjustable declination, either. Keeping track of declination is part of the "skillset to use them", above.

AO

[rickb]

Then its just one more thing to remember (or forget) or just mess up in the field. With declination ranging from 5 - 15 degrees from true north in the areas along the the trail, it can make a big difference.

Of course.

This is why you orient your map to Magnetic North.

Most maps already have magnetic north shown in the compass rose. If you want to be precise, you can draw additional lines on your map pointing to magnetic north, against which yo can align the base plate of your compass. if you want to be more precise still you can adjust your lines a wee bit for the age of the map.

But why not just keep it simple? Just make sure the pointy thing in the plastic thing is pointing in the same direction as the arrow labeled magnetic north on your map.

[peakbagger]

I used to have to teach boy scouts map and compass, in my area its 17 to 18 degrees, it made one heck of a difference when a scout did it backwards. The NPS AT boundary maps use both magnetic and true bearings in different spots, when I am running boundary with my sighting compass I have to check myself a couple of times in the morning to make sure I am not off 36 degrees.

When I surveyed years ago, I did an occasion look up for the declination that lined up with the year of the survey but for the vast majority of the surveys that level of accuracy was not needed as the original surveys were frequently done with field transits that weren't that accurate. About the only time it makes a difference is when a surveyor is trying to force a line in one direction.

[peakbagger]

One other odd detail is that most compasses are weighted to be used in certain part of the world. There are universal compasses but folks who go to the other side of the equator sometimes find out their compass wont work right as the needle is tipped into the baseplate

[FlyFishNut]

One other odd detail is that most compasses are weighted to be used in certain part of the world. There are universal compasses but folks who go to the other side of the equator sometimes find out their compass wont work right as the needle is tipped into the baseplate

Yup - the "Global" version of my compass was a bit more expensive. I do plan on going to S of the equator again.... i guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it...

[Another Kevin]

Do y'all typically go to NOAA for declination and are you pretty religious about it for every hike/location??

Nope. I don't go that far afield. 13 degrees west for Helderbergs, Catskills , Gunks and Harriman, 14 degrees west for Adirondacks and Taconics. Take compass readings in Harriman, Hudson Highlands, or Taconics with a grain of salt because there's a lot of iron mine tailings around and compasses do wacky things. I have 13 1/2 degrees in my compass, and I'll only need to reset if I hike farther from home than I do.

[Offshore]

Do y'all typically go to NOAA for declination and are you pretty religious about it for every hike/location??

I pretty much set it once for a season and leave it unless I change latitudes enough to make a couple of degrees difference. My compass is really just a backup and there are other factors that affect the accuracy of the reading more than declination being off a degree or so.

[Offshore]

One other odd detail is that most compasses are weighted to be used in certain part of the world. There are universal compasses but folks who go to the other side of the equator sometimes find out their compass wont work right as the needle is tipped into the baseplate

That also happens as you get closer to the magnetic poles where the magnetic field becomes more vertical relative to the earth's surface. The needle gets pulled downward into the baseplate. This can be counteracted by magnets on the needle and special bearing designs. My recreational compasses aren't international. The one I use professionally is this: http://www.brunton.com/products/international-pocket-transit-0-90 Nice compass, but far too heavy to be carried for recreation.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

That also happens as you get closer to the magnetic poles where the magnetic field becomes more vertical relative to the earth's surface. The needle gets pulled downward into the baseplate. This can be counteracted by magnets on the needle and special bearing designs. My recreational compasses aren't international. The one I use professionally is this: http://www.brunton.com/products/international-pocket-transit-0-90 Nice compass, but far too heavy to be carried for recreation.

My beloved Brunton Pocket Transit, acquired as a graduation gift in 1978, still gets extensive recreational use, but not for backpacking or paddling outings. But let us head off on a day hike or a truck-borne exploration, and the old Brunton is right there with us as a familiar, comforting presence.

AO

[Offshore]

My beloved Brunton Pocket Transit, acquired as a graduation gift in 1978, still gets extensive recreational use, but not for backpacking or paddling outings. But let us head off on a day hike or a truck-borne exploration, and the old Brunton is right there with us as a familiar, comforting presence.

AO

LOL - Mine was a graduation present from 1982!