View Full Version : Campsite and widow makers
Hi All, I'm new to the forum and have a question about choosing a campsite. I was curious if there is any thing specific to look for when choosing a campsite to avoid widow makers. Or if it's just a hope for the best type of deal. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks,
Tipi Walter
06-18-2015, 13:02
My rule is to not set up under a dead tree no matter how good the campsite. Then again, I have pushed over many dead snags or sawed thru many small campsite dead trees in order to use that campsite. Sometimes you can use cordage to sway a dead tree to topple or you can push it over with your hands or use a folding saw etc.
We've had a massive hemlock dieoff here in the Southeast and extra care needs to be practiced when setting up in these hemlock graveyards. They begin by shedding their parts---limbs and tops---and eventually the whole giant trunk falls. You don't want to be underneath.
Otherwise, just don't set up under an obviously dead tree.
And of course, even an apparently healthy living tree can fall so have fun out there.
Starchild
06-18-2015, 13:03
Basically look up for dead and hanging stuff, badly slanted trees also, pitch tent outside the designated landing zone for them.
Tipi Walter
06-18-2015, 13:16
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2005/Nine-Days-With-Johnny-Be-Trip/i-QjktG64/0/M/45-23%20%20jb%20at%20wild%20bird%20camp-M.jpg
Here's an open campsite on the BMT near Tapoco before a giant living oak tree fell and obliterated the campsite. Luckily it happened without our participation.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2007/Ken-Jones-and-the-Crosscut/i-Qrk5QzD/0/M/DSC00548-M.jpg
Here's the same spot ofter the big oak fell into camp. It's sitting just where we put our tents in the above pic.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2008/With-Troll-and-Pulling-the/i-WJgsf9x/0/M/TRIP%2080%20033-M.jpg
Here's a campsite completely divided by a fallen locust tree and it landed exactly where I used to place my tent.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Cranbrook-School-Backpacking/i-KdhScHj/0/M/TRIP%20120%20227-M.jpg
Here's the same spot a few years later and shows how the blowdown cut the campsite in two.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/15-Days-with-a-Red-Hilleberg/i-KFJNpB9/0/M/TRIP%20105%20095-M.jpg
Here's a popular campsite on the BMT at Cold Spring Gap with a new blowdown landing just where we usually put our tents.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/23-Days-with-Hootyhoo-Sgt-Rock/i-CvJkDZP/0/M/TRIP%20115%20188-M.jpg
Here's an example of an old rotted snag interfering with my campsite so I push it over and it breaks into several pieces.
BirdBrain
06-18-2015, 14:22
Living in Maine and having cut down a few trees, we have a different definition for widow makers. I was surprised to see what others are posting as widow makers. A widow maker up here is a.small branch that is bent and held in tension by a larger object, usually the fallen tree. If the small branch held in tension is cut at an end, it can snap like a whip. Many a lumber jack has fallen victim to one of these small branches. It was the man of the house that was killed while working. Thus the term widow maker. Lumber Jacks, as a rule, were not killed by dead trees falling in the middle of the night. Most every child that has learned to cut down a tree has been told about the hidden danger in the small branches. I was taught about widow makers when I first started cutting wood for the stove as a young boy.
Like others I avoid setting up under dead trees and branches as much as possible but beyond that it is a game of statistics as any tree can fall especially in storms.
Maui Rhino
06-18-2015, 15:08
When I select a campsite, I always start by looking up and checking for whole trees or tree limbs that are snagged or dead and could fall. I also look carefully at the ground to evaluate drainage patterns, to make sure I'm not putting my tent up in a depression that could fill with water in a sudden shower. I also consider wind direction and strength when deciding where to pitch my tent.
Tipi Walter
06-18-2015, 15:52
It's always sobering to be hiking along a trail and see a vertical straight limb sticking up out of the ground and buried a foot deep from the weight of gravity. These limbs are unnoticed in a campsite because they are high up and when they snap they come down butt first and impale the ground with tremendous force. Fun to be sleeping and have one cut thru a tent.
Traveler
06-18-2015, 16:11
It's always sobering to be hiking along a trail and see a vertical straight limb sticking up out of the ground and buried a foot deep from the weight of gravity. These limbs are unnoticed in a campsite because they are high up and when they snap they come down butt first and impale the ground with tremendous force. Fun to be sleeping and have one cut thru a tent.
That never ceases to impress me, along with how far some of these limbs penetrate the ground.
Thanks for all the input!
Siestita
06-18-2015, 17:41
Thanks Birdbrain for your interesting explanation of what widow makers are in wood harvesting contexts.
Another Kevin
06-18-2015, 19:45
Living in Maine and having cut down a few trees, we have a different definition for widow makers. I was surprised to see what others are posting as widow makers. A widow maker up here is a.small branch that is bent and held in tension by a larger object, usually the fallen tree. If the small branch held in tension is cut at an end, it can snap like a whip. Many a lumber jack has fallen victim to one of these small branches. It was the man of the house that was killed while working. Thus the term widow maker. Lumber Jacks, as a rule, were not killed by dead trees falling in the middle of the night. Most every child that has learned to cut down a tree has been told about the hidden danger in the small branches. I was taught about widow makers when I first started cutting wood for the stove as a young boy.
Hmm, I always heard 'widowmaker' for a dead branch or tree hung up aloft, threatening to drop on you if you try to fell the tree it's caught in or a neighbouring one. I heard 'fool killer' for the springy birch or beech that will whip back and kill the fool who frees it. Then there are 'barber chairs.' Lumberjacks have many colourful ways to kill themselves.
Cardiologists call the left anterior descending coronary artery the widowmaker. Get one of those plugged up, and you're a goner in minutes.
imscotty
06-18-2015, 20:33
I never really trust White Pines. I have seen too many that fail catastrophically.
Another Kevin
06-19-2015, 12:29
In the West, lodgepole pines are the worst for that sort of thing. Where the other trees will bend, sometimes to the ground, and then spring up once the load is off them, the lodgepoles stand like prim Quakers: "We will not bend, even though we break," and break they do!
Around where I live, Callery pear (http://www.invasive.org/eastern/midatlantic/pyca.html) is also turning out to be a problem tree, collapsing without warning (and growing in thorny thickets, because the unwanted hybrids recall that they're in the rose family.)
Farr Away
06-19-2015, 13:04
...
Around where I live, Callery pear (http://www.invasive.org/eastern/midatlantic/pyca.html) is also turning out to be a problem tree, collapsing without warning (and growing in thorny thickets, because the unwanted hybrids recall that they're in the rose family.)
Hmm, Bradford pears are a _very_ popular ornamental around here. They seem to be all over.
Another Kevin
06-19-2015, 13:07
Hmm, Bradford pears are a _very_ popular ornamental around here. They seem to be all over.
They're surely not the first noxious weed to be introduced as an ornamental!
Last year in June we were somewhere near Erwin NC. Checked for obvious widowmakers, then set up our hammocks. About 1 am a big storm came through and took down a bunch of trees. One big perfectly live tree landed right where my daughter had considered hanging her hammock. Thank god she changed her mind. In the morning there were big trees snapped off 25 feet up. Scarry night .
Tipi Walter
06-19-2015, 14:37
Last year in June we were somewhere near Erwin NC. Checked for obvious widowmakers, then set up our hammocks. About 1 am a big storm came through and took down a bunch of trees. One big perfectly live tree landed right where my daughter had considered hanging her hammock. Thank god she changed her mind. In the morning there were big trees snapped off 25 feet up. Scarry night .
Carrying a small radio helps on a backpacking trip as when it pings with wind or tornado warnings you can pack up and move to a safer spot.
One time I was on a Tennessee ridge at 3,500 feet and my radio reported "100mph winds coming east from the Nashville area" and it spooked me so I packed up in the dark at 8pm and hiked 2 miles down 2,000 feet to a creek valley and avoided the hell storm.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Brushy-Ridge/i-vkNb5vw/0/M/TRIP%20119%20283-M.jpg
Another time in April 2011 our area got hit with a series of tornadoes and I was atop Flats Mt at 4,000 feet and so knowing what was coming I bailed about 8 or 10 miles to Bald River valley and set up next to this rock ledge which would protect me from falling trees.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2002-2004/Citico-Wilderness-2002/i-6VPcvpF/0/M/trip%202.14-M.jpg
Another technique is to set up next to a big blowdown which offers some protection from falling trees and gives you a couple feet of headroom if a tree falls and strikes on top of the blowdown.
Traveler
06-20-2015, 08:26
The most frightening tree damage I ever saw along the AT was in MA just north of Walling Mountain to Finerty pond in October of 2009. There must have been a hell of a wind storm that took the tops off of most of the trees that didn't fall for about a mile or so of trail, including a camping area. There was literally not a square 10 feet of ground that didn't have a tree top, huge branch, or full tree laying across it. I cannot imagine being in there when that was going on.
new2hiking
06-22-2015, 00:23
I was going to ask this exact question. I have a healthy fear of falling trees/branches, a perfectly healthy tree in my backyard fell on my house years ago. Right into my living room on 'my spot' of the couch. Would have most likely killed me had I not been up doing something. This is probably my biggest fear every time I'm out in the woods and for some reason lately the anxiety has increased. Glad the OP asked and happy to see all the replies
MuddyWaters
06-22-2015, 00:35
Do your best not to set up under dead tree or dead limbs, or where an obviously leaning tree or snag may fall.
Then hope for the best.
Reality is......trees and limbs fall all the time in the woods, and there isnt a lot you can do about it. Chances are very slim it will happen to you. It DOES happen to people from time to time though.
You can accept the risk, or stay home. Not much in-between.
Another Kevin
06-22-2015, 07:33
Listen as well as look. I often hear widowmakers rubbing and creaking overhead before I see them.
Easiest way to avoid widow makers? Don't get married.
Pedaling Fool
06-22-2015, 07:50
I had to walk thru this area in Maine on a very windy day and I heard a lot of rubbing and creaking...very unnerving. http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/9/3/6/09-28-061509_original.jpg
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/9/3/6/09-28-061509_original.jpg
Pedaling Fool
06-22-2015, 07:51
Easiest way to avoid widow makers? Don't get married.Damn good advice :D
FWIW I agree with this University of Maine definition: Widowmakers are trees with broken or dead limbs or dead trees hung up in other trees that may fall on you
The first thing I look for is dead branches already on the ground, indicating more may fall. Then I look for dead branches above the campsite, or weak, dead trees within falling distance. The windier it is the more careful I try to be.
The overall danger is very low, but it's worth taking simple precautions.
Carrying a small radio helps on a backpacking trip as when it pings with wind or tornado warnings you can pack up and move to a safer spot.
One time I was on a Tennessee ridge at 3,500 feet and my radio reported "100mph winds coming east from the Nashville area" and it spooked me so I packed up in the dark at 8pm and hiked 2 miles down 2,000 feet to a creek valley and avoided the hell storm.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Brushy-Ridge/i-vkNb5vw/0/M/TRIP%20119%20283-M.jpg
Another time in April 2011 our area got hit with a series of tornadoes and I was atop Flats Mt at 4,000 feet and so knowing what was coming I bailed about 8 or 10 miles to Bald River valley and set up next to this rock ledge which would protect me from falling trees.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2002-2004/Citico-Wilderness-2002/i-6VPcvpF/0/M/trip%202.14-M.jpg
Another technique is to set up next to a big blowdown which offers some protection from falling trees and gives you a couple feet of headroom if a tree falls and strikes on top of the blowdown.
Wow - these are some really good ideas!