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10-K
06-25-2015, 11:55
Suggestions for dealing with paper maps when it rains - particularly when it rains for more than a day at a time and everything seems to get damp/moist/wet?

Ziplocks are ok but at some point you have to open them to turn a map over or insert a new section....if you need a new map and it's pouring down rain well.... that's a problem.

At this point I'm looking at a waterproof map case that you can wear around your neck. Bonus point for looking cool with my Tilley hat. :)

Just Bill
06-25-2015, 12:05
http://www.rei.com/product/609319/map-seal-liquid-aquaseal-8-oz

Used it for a long time as a younger fella when all we had were paper maps.
Write on it first if you're going to, although I remember a space pen still working through/over the sealer.
Test it in a corner or test print first- everyonce in a while it made the ink run but it always worked on the USGS maps.
We taped wax paper down on a bigger table- seemed to work better than seran wrap.
Might want to pick it up in person if possible- it's not too popular anymore so who knows how long it's been sitting on the shelf.

It won't make them good enough to work as a rainfly, but it does solve the damp/moist/wet problems.
You'll still want a map case or ziplock, but you won't wreck them fliping pages or re-folding with wet hands.
Many map sets made for BWCA, local trips, Porkies, etc- they hold up.

tarditi
06-25-2015, 12:06
Laminate them or scan them and print them on waterproof/tear-proof paper.

I've used map cases before and they're a bit heavy

HooKooDooKu
06-25-2015, 12:29
http://www.rei.com/product/609319/map-seal-liquid-aquaseal-8-oz ...
DITTO !!!

This stuff is great.

The paper retains the ability to fold it, and doesn't leave the paper with a waxy feel. It even strengthens the paper and improves it's resiliency to abrasions.

I've been creating some back-country versions of some popular board games (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/112222-Sorry!) for my kids to play at the end of the day when we're in the back country. The bulk of the stuff is paper or card stock and I use Aquaseal on all of it to protect the paper from the harsh humidity we face in the GSMNP.

10-K
06-25-2015, 13:24
The only thing about a liquid sealant is that I have lots-and-lots-and-lots of paper maps for the CDT. I've already got them sorted and packaged but I'd guess over 200 pages total for Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.

Laminating would work but that would really be heavy (and take a long time to do).....

rocketsocks
06-25-2015, 14:16
The only thing about a liquid sealant is that I have lots-and-lots-and-lots of paper maps for the CDT. I've already got them sorted and packaged but I'd guess over 200 pages total for Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.

Laminating would work but that would really be heavy (and take a long time to do).....go to a store where they sell beds and mattresses. At the foot of most please find a heavy gauge zip-loc where price and info are inserted making updates to prices and inventory easy...what you do next is on you :)

car dealers may also have something like this, might even get a free car ride. :D

Starchild
06-25-2015, 14:26
I've used silicon spray in the distant past. It works reasonably well. On the AT I used a passport and document roll top drybag (clear on one side), Walmart under $10, about $20 elsewhere. Was just careful when I had to change pages, however on the AT it was not always needed to change pages as following the white and memory of what's ahead is often enough.

Slo-go'en
06-25-2015, 14:30
Tompsons's water seal works real well. Just brush it on and hang the maps to dry.

Another Kevin
06-25-2015, 14:51
Try any product you use on a corner of the map first. Sometimes the solvents make the ink run.

Oh by the way, I see REI has a 9x12 inch map case for less that $4 at the outlet, if you happen to be a couple bucks short of free shipping on an order for something else.

Dogwood
06-25-2015, 17:29
Ahh, I was wondering how you were going to navigate on the CDT. For the CDT I also printed out some 200+ topos on 8.5 x 11 paper. WP paper, hand Aquaseal Map Sealing(Yes, decent WPing but for a smaller number map set IMO), spraying with silicon, spraying with Vo5 hairspray(be careful, as AK said, this can bleed or yellow your copies!), and laminating(expensive AND, as 10-k said, can get bulky and heavy with a large map set) seemed rather unduly expensive and/or time consuming based on the sheer number of maps I needed printed. My CDT planning already was consuming much time and a considerable expense while still holding down two jobs to pay for it all. Plus, I didn't think I needed that level of protection for my SOBO CDT thru-hike with my maps.

I've been getting many of my stacks of color topo maps printed out rather cheaply, 10 cts a copy, a color printing bargain IMO, on a expensive high end laser printer at a local library yet usually on rather middle grade non WP copy paper. From what I can tell, although I'm no electronics or printer geek, a big part of getting more bleed resistant/water resistant copies begins by printing on a high quality printer like a laser jet at Office Depot, Kinkos, Staples etc or using a expensive laser printer. That's what I did for the CDT. I even manipulated my maps at the library from the CDT Ley Mapset to have the barest of margins. I then placed multiple 8.5x11 topos based on CDT segments into somewhat thicker mil clear plastic sheet protectors bought at Staples, Office Depot etc that MOST IMPORTANTLY had a little 1/4" or so FLAT STIFF flap on the ONE open top that STAYED FLAT and a sealed bottom. Reducing the need for fumbling/sorting through topos once on trail I placed one topo face up on one side of the clear plastic sheet protector(obverse) and the NEXT corresponding topo face up on the reverse side of the clear plastic sheet protector. This way I got to view two topos seamlessly, about 14- 22 consecutive trail miles total, without ever having to unduly fully expose maps to the elements. I just had to turn over the sheet protector. If printing topos double sided print appropriately if you desire to do the same. ie; map57/pg 57 on one side of the copy paper map59/pg 59 on the opposite side of the same copy paper. I often had other 8.5x11 topo maps sandwiched between these two outer maps inside the sheet protector. I had these maps prepared that way the night before when under a tarp or when in clear weather. I review my maps every night in camp for the next day's anticipated mileage as part of my in camp routine. At some pt on longer mileage days I only then, and almost always only once, changed those two topos that faced outward in the sheet protector on both sides to the next seamlessly corresponding too. I always had these maps inside the sheet protector in the side pocket of my backpack along with my WP Wolf trail guidebook, WP Writing Journal, WP Space Pen and, when needed, other non 8.5x11 folded maps(you may need a lot of these for a long CDT section or thru-hike!, especially if you're using map and compass navigation as I usually am). I aimed for the maps in the sheet protector to always be nearest the backpack with these other WP materials on the more exposed outer side of the side pocket. The little tight fold side of the sheet protector was always top. On a few rare days of a non stop deluge I did leave my sheet protector protected topo maps inside my pack. I had zero issue with bleed.

I used the exact same map printing regimen for a Sierra High Route thru. Everything being the same. On one particularly cold night I spread out all my 8.5x11 topos on the ground layered above a polycro ground sheet for a tiny bit of needed insulation while in cowboy/bivy mode. During the night I got some light rain and the winds picked up. In the morning many of the topos had blown into a partially iced over stream becoming drenched through. Fortunately, I found all my topos. What amazed me was that none of them bled and that was with the topos not in the sheet protector. What did happen is that they were easily torn. I got them all to dry out without losing one bit of the topo though.

BTW, WP paper may be preferable for topos in extreme wet environments compared to some spray/wipe on WPing aerosols/liquids as WP paper has fibers in it that, as Tarditi said, make the paper not only WP but more resisting to tearing than simply WPing regular copy paper. If I ever get my arse up to it I'll likely go with WP paper for thrus of the Great Divide Tr and PNT.

burger
06-25-2015, 17:37
I have a vastly simpler solution: get an umbrella. On the CDT none of my maps ever got wet, despite many days of rain.

10-K
06-25-2015, 18:03
I'll have my umbrella for sure. But, water runs down your (my) arms, splashes, etc. - I can't imagine as clumsy as I am being able to hold an umbrella with one hand and fiddle with maps in the other without water getting on the maps, inside the ziplock, etc.

I think I'm just going to buy the durn waterproof map protector gadget and wear it around my neck.

And like I said, it'll be like a fashion accessory for my Tilley hat..

10-K
06-25-2015, 18:04
BTW, WP paper may be preferable for topos in extreme wet environments compared to some spray/wipe on WPing aerosols/liquids as WP paper has fibers in it that, as Tarditi said, make the paper not only WP but more resisting to tearing than simply WPing regular copy paper. If I ever get my arse up to it I'll likely go with WP paper for thrus of the Great Divide Tr and PNT.

This is the right answer I think but I'm too far into it now to redo everything on WP paper.

Next time.. :)

garlic08
06-25-2015, 19:22
You can use this stuff (http://www.riteintherain.com/). One of my CDT buddies used it.

10-K
06-25-2015, 19:56
You can use this stuff (http://www.riteintherain.com/). One of my CDT buddies used it.

I actually bought a small spiral bound notebook w/ pencil from these folks a few days ago.

Dogwood
06-25-2015, 20:00
Rite in the Rain 8.5 x11 WP printing paper and a laser copier create good WP maps. Get the right Rite in the Rain paper for your printer and print job! It's what I use many times.

Rite in the Rain also is the maker of my WP Writing Journals I use on thru-hikes and sometimes on the job outdoors in wet environments. Beware though with the WP Journals write in it with pencil or appropriate WP Pen/Writing Instrument like this company also manufactures. After losing two thru-hiking journals because the non WP writing ink incoherently bled because I used an inappropriate non WP writing instrument I learned this. These types of appropriate writing instruments also take better to the Rite in the Rain paper. I just organized my Trail Journals. I must have at least 15 of them alone all written in Rite in the Rain WP Journals.

imscotty
06-25-2015, 20:57
I used the Rite in the Rain Paper in the Tropical Rainforest of Costa Rica. Great stuff, normal paper just melts. But it is expensive.

Venchka
06-25-2015, 23:03
Get a clear double sided map case a bit larger than your maps. Put two maps in back to back. If it rains longer than it takes you to hike across two maps, wet maps will be the least of your problems.
Wearing a map case around your neck is a shunning offense in most societies. GRINNING.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Dogwood
06-25-2015, 23:47
I have a vastly simpler solution: get an umbrella. On the CDT none of my maps ever got wet, despite many days of rain.

Actually, I find my way rather simple. It's my relating what I do in writing that often becomes complex.:p:D

burger
06-25-2015, 23:50
If you already have an umbrella, then you're just making extra work for yourself. If you hold your umbrella properly, you can easily keep rain off your maps. A few drops of water on your maps as you switch between them will not ruin them.

burger
06-25-2015, 23:50
I think it's funny how some people make backpacking much more complex than it has to be.

Dogwood
06-25-2015, 23:58
hey, it's just walkin, right

nsherry61
06-26-2015, 00:24
Personally, I'm curious how a waterproof map case makes changing maps any easier in the rain than using a ziplok bag. And, being from the Pacific NW,half my hiking is in endless rain, and I get along very well with plain paper in ziplok bags with occasionally damp maps, but never damaged to the point of being a problem to use.

rocketsocks
06-26-2015, 07:21
much as I dislike cutting maps, you may find this useful.https://ia700809.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/17/items/milmanual-fm-3-25.26-map-reading-and-land-navigation/fm_3-25.26_map_reading_and_land_navigation_jp2.zip&file=fm_3-25.26_map_reading_and_land_navigation_jp2/fm_3-25.26_map_reading_and_land_navigation_0189.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0

10-K
06-26-2015, 07:37
hey, it's just walkin, right

And asking questions ... Have to find some way to kill time for the next 2 weeks.

Asking how to keep my maps dry didn't mean that my maps are going to be ruined if a forum post doesn't save me because I'm too stupid to figure it out without help.. Certainly I can figure out how to keep my maps dry - but it was something I was wondering about and figured I'd ask. It's a way to pass the time.

While I'm at it... should I take Jacket X or Jacket Y? :)

Traveler
06-26-2015, 09:42
I use zip lock baggies for maps, when they have to come out to refold the map I can hover over the map and keep it reasonably dry. I have used several small maps in baggies, which weigh very little and swapped them out as I needed them. Different sized baggies can be used for different maps and can be folded, though the ziplock will be a little bulky.

Slo-go'en
06-26-2015, 09:44
Seriously, try the Thompson water seal. You can get it at any hardware store and if it don't work out you can always seal your deck with it :)

Tipi Walter
06-26-2015, 09:55
Another option is to take pics of your maps with your digital camera (esp if the camera is a waterproof Olympus/Pentax/Ricoh) and then look at the maps and zoom in with your camera. Often these maps can be pulled right off your computer and taken out in the field---see---

http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/5/b/d/3618237/DSC00032.jpg

Colter
06-26-2015, 10:11
I printed up the Ley maps on standard 8x11 paper. A hiker goes through maps fast enough that usually rain isn't going to be an issue for an individual map. If it was just sprinkling or raining sporadically I'd step under a tree or protect the map with my body to check it. If it was really rainy I liked a gallon Ziploc for the current map.

Another Kevin
06-26-2015, 11:15
Another option is to take pics of your maps with your digital camera (esp if the camera is a waterproof Olympus/Pentax/Ricoh) and then look at the maps and zoom in with your camera. Often these maps can be pulled right off your computer and taken out in the field---see---

Uhm, yeah, I guess. I put maps on my smartphone all the time (the pan/zoom on my camera display isn't terrific), but they're usually maps that I made myself. The phone has a waterproof case, so no problem hauling it out, except that I usually avoid using the screen to spare the battery and pull out a paper map instead.
I haven't made a lot of effort to map as far south as what you're showing, but at least the software kicks out something. https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/karl.html?la=35.2454&lo=-84.1908&z=15 (https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/karl.html?la=35.2454&lo=-84.1908&z=15)
It looks better over by Fontana, where more data seem to be available: https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/karl.html?la=35.4391&lo=-83.7562&z=13 (https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/karl.html?la=35.4391&lo=-83.7562&z=13)

Venchka
06-26-2015, 13:34
And asking questions ... Have to find some way to kill time for the next 2 weeks.

Asking how to keep my maps dry didn't mean that my maps are going to be ruined if a forum post doesn't save me because I'm too stupid to figure it out without help.. Certainly I can figure out how to keep my maps dry - but it was something I was wondering about and figured I'd ask. It's a way to pass the time.

While I'm at it... should I take Jacket X or Jacket Y? :)

Jacket Z. Definitely Jacket Z. Jackets X & Y are terrible. I read many online reviews. Jacket Z was clearly better than X or Y.

How's that for killing time? Waiting for the finish of Tour Divide 2015 sometime this evening. The 3 leaders are in/near Silver City, New Mexico now.

10-K: Take a hike!

Wayne

Hoofit
06-26-2015, 14:40
Seriously, try the Thompson water seal. You can get it at any hardware store and if it don't work out you can always seal your deck with it :)
beginning to think that your last name is Thompson.....

Dogwood
06-26-2015, 14:41
What's the Best shoes for hiking the CDT?:p

??????

Another Kevin
06-26-2015, 17:36
What's the Best shoes for hiking the CDT?

The ones your feet feel good in. :p

Sheriff Cougar
06-28-2015, 23:24
I have used the clear sticky back shelf lining paper. Stick the sides together with the paper in between. It is just like laminating but less expensive. You may have to overlap the paper depending on the size of the maps. I used it to laminate pages from my hiking guides among other things.

Tuxhiker
06-29-2015, 12:27
I'd take Y.
Don't ask me Why!