View Full Version : Going Stoveless Without Mail Drops
I have been reading about the various techniques backpackers use in order to go stoveless and it seems to me that a large majority tend to rely on mail drops rather than buying food in towns. This makes sense since certain items that can be easily re-hydrated and provide good nutrition are specialty type products. For example, I rarely see instant dehydrated refried beans or hummus powder in small town grocery stores. I realize that it would be possible to supply out of small grocery stores and simply purchase more "lunch" type foods and eat them for dinner. Things like tortillas, peanut butter, hard cheeses, jerky, etc. But I think that my chances of going stoveless and enjoying it hinge on having something a bit different for my trail dinners than for my lunches.
I am experimenting this week with rehydrating common trail dinners like Idahoans, Couscous, etc along with some things that aren't available except in better grocery stores (Whole foods bulk bins, for example) that would probably have to be sent ahead.
I plan to try a number of stoveless items on hikes this summer and fall and, if all goes well, I can ditch the stove for my planned PCT SOBO next year where going fast and light will be a big priority. Weight savings from no stove is just part of it; time savings from not cooking, especially in the morning, may be equally valuable.
I had zero trouble going stoveless for 50% of the PCT without mail drops. It's not hard at all.
One of my favorites was to put macaroni in a quart Gatorade bottle half full of water to rehydrate a few hours before I stopped hiking for the day. Add a couple of mayo packets, the cheese packet, some bacon bits and a packet of chicken fixed it right up. (note: This doesn't sound so good now... :) )
Idahoans are actually pretty good cold and watered down so much you could drink them through a straw.
Also, freeze dried food rehydrates a lot quicker than dehydrated.
I'm hoping to avoid meals that require several hours of rehydration because I'm thinking that the extra water weight I'd be carrying (assuming I'm hiking while rehydrating dinner) would partly (or maybe fully) offset the weight savings.
Well... I get that. But you know... carrying an extra 2 cups of water for an hour or so at the end of the day isn't the same as carrying it all day or an extra burden that requires a lot of effort.
You might also try instant white rice. It rehydrates pretty fast too. You can do a lot with rice - sweeten it, spice it, etc.
Starbucks Italian Roast Via. Cold.
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe a solar heater on top of my pack above treeline. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............
Wayne
Starchild
07-01-2015, 16:18
Stoveless is not necessarily a weight saving option, it can be, but also can a stove hike as well. It depends on the foods you will bring, which for a long distance hike tends towards changing tastes and variety.
Time saving, perhaps, even likely, but again it depends on your prep time needed for primarily rehydration times.
It goes more into HYOH, don't like cooking, go stoveless, your prep time is cut down stoveless and that's what you want to do, go for it, but it is more the foods you chose that will qualify if it's a time or weight savings and not going stoveless in itself.
This goes into 'base weight blindness' when one carrying less base weight is offset by higher consumable weight carried.
Dochartaigh
07-01-2015, 16:26
Just going to put this out there....and just making sure that you know there are stove systems out there that weigh under 3 ounces, right? My Foster's pot and lid, with a Caldera Cone windscreen and pot stand, along with an Esbit stove with mini Bic lighter comes in at 2.94 ounces. Add in half an ounce of fuel per boil of 2 cups of water and you're really looking at minuscule weight. Takes about 6 or 7 minutes to boil water if my memory serves (which is probably shorter than it takes to break down or setup camp).
Just going to put this out there....and just making sure that you know there are stove systems out there that weigh under 3 ounces, right? My Foster's pot and lid, with a Caldera Cone windscreen and pot stand, along with an Esbit stove with mini Bic lighter comes in at 2.94 ounces. Add in half an ounce of fuel per boil of 2 cups of water and you're really looking at minuscule weight. Takes about 6 or 7 minutes to boil water if my memory serves (which is probably shorter than it takes to break down or setup camp).
Yes, this is what I use.....
The trouble with the alcohol setups is two-fold: First, fire bans seem almost perennial out west these days and I suspect that alcohol stoves would be illegal for a large part of the hike. Second, I'd have to locate alcohol fuel frequently or carry a large amount which would offset the weight savings of the stove setup itself. Part of my motivation is to avoid having to locate and buy fuel along the way. However, I have considered experimenting with alcohol stoves and might give it a try.
I'm currently making Couscous in a freezer bag with cold water for part of my dinner ... will be interesting to see how that goes. I'm giving it 30 minutes to rehydrate.
As for morning coffee, I'm going to experiment with the Starbucks cold vias. I'm not a fan of flavored coffee but willing to give it a try. I've tried regular via cold and didn't like it.
I've played with rehydrating couscous cold at home recently and been very happy with the results. Especially with the flavor packs and some added oil for calories, it's a winner. As for coffee, if you're only looking for the caffeine you might try caffeine gum. I usually chew it while getting up in the morning and packing up.
I've played with rehydrating couscous cold at home recently and been very happy with the results. Especially with the flavor packs and some added oil for calories, it's a winner. As for coffee, if you're only looking for the caffeine you might try caffeine gum. I usually chew it while getting up in the morning and packing up.
Can't believe it ... only 15 minutes and the couscous tastes just fine. Granted this is relatively warm room temperature water but I'm sure 30 minutes would do the trick with colder water!
garlic08
07-01-2015, 18:24
One of the reasons I like hiking stoveless is it makes resupply easier--no need to look for fuel. For my diet, shopping tends to be easier, too. Rural C-stores often have plenty of snacks but may be light on stove meals. So if your diet requires you to do maildrops in order to go stoveless, that eliminates one of the benefits of going stoveless, in my book.
Yeah... the advantage to stoveless (for me) isn't that I don't have to deal with water to eat. For me the main reasons are:
1. No stove to futz with.
2. No fuel to buy and store.
3. 2 less things to keep up with.
Carrying 8 extra oz of water for an hour or 2 while I hike in order to rehydrate a meal that's going to taste good and be filling and rewarding after a hard day hiking is well worth it to me.
I will be using esbit on the CDT - I already have it packaged up in my resupply boxes.
The main reason: Coffee in the morning and a mid-afternoon coffee break. I do like a cup of hot coffee.
If I can't handle cold Vias, I'm thinking of a tiny esbit setup just for coffee where esbit is legal (I guess it has the same restrictions as alcohol. zPacks has a very light one. http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/esbit_stove.shtml
I have an Esbit stove in the original box with the original fuel tabs. It might be time to open the box and give it a try. Probably 40+ years old.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
On winter hikes this past year I took a couple of esbits to use as fire starters. Ended up never starting a campfire so I still have the entire box. It looks like an interesting solution for hot coffee only. The tiny esbit "stove" platform plus a very small ti mug should be pretty light. The mug could probably serve dual duty for cold meals as well, maybe eliminating the empty peanut butter jar, if I got a mug with a secure lid of some sort.
I dont think of it as stoveless as much as I think of it as cookless. Foods which can be eaten as is. For me the idea is not to "cold cook without a stove", it is to eat other foods entirely. When thought of as "no cook" instead of "no stove", shopping is easier.
I'm comfortable going stoveless but I doubt I'd do it again on a long hike. My esbit/caldera cone setup is easily within a weight limit where the benefits of having a way to boil water outweigh the weight penalty.
I just can't get past that hot cup of coffee. I'm out there hiking like a fiend all day and am supposed to be having a good time but I won't allow myself something that I really and truly enjoy?
I don't know which I enjoy most - the first cup of coffee of the day before I get out of my bag or the cup I have in mid-late afternoon usually sitting in a scenic spot enjoying the view. It's a way I force myself to take a break and it makes the last 8-10 miles of the day a lot more fun.
Sorry for the topic drift.... :)
Sorry for the topic drift.... :)
Not a drift at all ... hot coffee is the biggest impediment to going stoveless for me (obviously, given my trail name!).
Dochartaigh
07-02-2015, 09:36
I would also do a detailed study of exactly the kinds of foods you're going to be eating. Sure, you said resupply won't exactly be at a full-fledged grocery story so your selection will be limited (and partially unknown until you're at that exact store), but we all know basically what a lot of the most common foods will be at convenience stores and smaller corner store markets.
I would then compare that with the weight of dehydrated/freeze-dried backpacking type food you would get via resupply. I'll bet you the weight savings of those type of foods, even paired with an esbit stove and esbit fuel supply for your hike, might just come out with the backpacking food + stove being lighter than the no-cook + convenience/corner store type of food. ....I'm just saying this now because if you HAVE to have a stove setup for hot coffee, why not go all the way and have nice hot meals too?
I'm just saying this now because if you HAVE to have a stove setup for hot coffee, why not go all the way and have nice hot meals too?
Yeah this is the key question. If I have to carry something for coffee then maybe boiling water for simple hot evening meals could be an option. I could still go with cold breakfasts to limit the time required to get up and going in the mornings. But if I can go with Vias intended for cold use then that changes things. I'll have to experiment with this locally before doing any longer hikes.
saltysack
07-02-2015, 10:39
Now tall got me thinking.....esbit may be good idea for jmt....is it allowed? Easy to plan amounts for resupply.....2 tabs per day...no guess work....thoughts....hot coffee w carnation breakfast in morning is a must....
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Going stoveless is not really about weight savings (though, with the right food, it can be) . It is about flexibility , ease of resupply and logistics.
Something I wrote earlier: http://www.pmags.com/going-stoveless-cold-food-for-thought
The short version is that is not the "best" solution for every person and all situations. But it is another great tool to have in a person's kit IMO.
.esbit may be good idea for jmt....is it allowed?
The JMT is a patchwork quilt of different land management agencies like most longer trails.
Without opening that can of worms again too much, safe to say different agencies have different interpretations of what constitutes a legal stove during certain conditions or even in general. Even individual officials have different interpretations at times. Gotta love bureaucratic rigmarole. :)
Best to call ahead...or not worry about potential red tape and go stoveless or use a a canister. I'm lazy, so that is what I do.
Going stoveless is not really about weight savings (though, with the right food, it can be) . It is about flexibility , ease of resupply and logistics.
I'm not sure that having a stove doesn't offer even more flexibility and makes resupply even easier because you have more choices. (for me, YMMV).
Basically it frees me up from having to think about fuel and having less gear to keep track of.
The bit about dry camping doesn't exactly apply to me because I'll carry a bit of water to make coffee and I don't mind carrying some water while I'm hiking to rehydrate food.
Then there is the matter of where the next water source is relative to where you're camping - if you're still 10 miles from the next water source you're going to be carrying water when you camp, even if you don't cook, so you will have some to drink the next morning on the way.
Not a drift at all ... hot coffee is the biggest impediment to going stoveless for me (obviously, given my trail name!).
Or one could adapt to drinking cold coffee. Frappe! It has the same amount of drugs in it :)
BirdBrain
07-02-2015, 15:44
Or one could adapt to drinking cold coffee. Frappe! It has the same amount of drugs in it :)
That logic lead me to try caffeine pills intead of drinking coffee. That experiment lasted one 10 day walk. At the resupply the coffee returned.
One of these days I will try the cold option.... maybe.
That logic lead me to try caffeine pills intead of drinking coffee. That experiment lasted one 10 day walk. At the resupply the coffee returned.
One of these days I will try the cold option.... maybe.
Funny you mention it.. I tried No-Doz too. Concluded the same thing.. Pills out, coffee back in. :)
I do carry several Gu Shots with 100mg caffeine each though. Nice pick-me-up without stopping.
BirdBrain
07-02-2015, 16:09
Funny you mention it.. I tried No-Doz too. Concluded the same thing.. Pills out, coffee back in. :)
I do carry several Gu Shots with 100mg caffeine each though. Nice pick-me-up without stopping.
I have concidered these. I use NUUN for my electrolyte. Now if only could get caffeinated NUUN..... :D
LuckyMan
07-02-2015, 17:11
I've found that couscous, even the whole-wheat version, tastes fine after only 5 minutes in cold water. I add olive oil or ghi or salted butter, smoked paprika and other spices, bits of sundried tomato, rehydrated vegetables, bacon or tuna, etc. it's surprisingly good. No stove for me in the sierras this summer. Another staple is dehydrated pates I made: chicken and white beans and salsa; hummus; tofu and curried vegetables, etc. these taste much better than cold instant mashed potatoes, but I'll be eating some of those too in places I don't send a resupply box.
Starchild
07-02-2015, 17:41
I have concidered these. I use NUUN for my electrolyte. Now if only could get caffeinated NUUN..... :D
I believe one of their flavors (and only one) is caffeinated.
BirdBrain
07-02-2015, 17:56
I believe one of their flavors (and only one) is caffeinated.
Well what do you know?
http://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/nuun-energy-tabs
Too late for my weekend hike... but maybe the Long Trail.
I'm comfortable going stoveless but I doubt I'd do it again on a long hike. My esbit/caldera cone setup is easily within a weight limit where the benefits of having a way to boil water outweigh the weight penalty.
I just can't get past that hot cup of coffee. I'm out there hiking like a fiend all day and am supposed to be having a good time but I won't allow myself something that I really and truly enjoy?
I don't know which I enjoy most - the first cup of coffee of the day before I get out of my bag or the cup I have in mid-late afternoon usually sitting in a scenic spot enjoying the view. It's a way I force myself to take a break and it makes the last 8-10 miles of the day a lot more fun.
Sorry for the topic drift.... :)
Amen!!!! I reckon an Esbit rig is "going stoveless."
The things Y'all make me think of. Who knew.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
bikebum1975
07-03-2015, 12:46
Not a drift at all ... hot coffee is the biggest impediment to going stoveless for me (obviously, given my trail name!).
Hot coffee is a requirement. I haven't done hiking in a long time personally I'm not into the whole going stoveless thing. I like cooking anyways speed is never an issue for me regarding meals in the woods. Time to slow down and enjoy it. But hey hyok if it works for ya don't let me stop ya each their own
GreenThumb
07-22-2015, 21:34
The trouble with the alcohol setups is two-fold: First, fire bans seem almost perennial out west these days and I suspect that alcohol stoves would be illegal for a large part of the hike. Second, I'd have to locate alcohol fuel frequently or carry a large amount which would offset the weight savings of the stove setup itself. Part of my motivation is to avoid having to locate and buy fuel along the way. However, I have considered experimenting with alcohol stoves and might give it a try.
I'm currently making Couscous in a freezer bag with cold water for part of my dinner ... will be interesting to see how that goes. I'm giving it 30 minutes to rehydrate.
As for morning coffee, I'm going to experiment with the Starbucks cold vias. I'm not a fan of flavored coffee but willing to give it a try. I've tried regular via cold and didn't like it.
You could sacrifice the extra 3 ounces and go with the alcohol stove, even if you don't carry alcohol with you all the time, you can at least use your stove once in a while if you get your hands on a little alcohol at a resupply point. Luxury? Probably.
lonehiker
07-30-2015, 11:32
I've yet to find a c-store or grocery store that hasn't carried Heet both on the AT or the PCT (and everywhere in-between). So the argument that it is difficult to find fuel doesn't hold much weight with me. If you want to cook, cook. If you want to go stove-less, go stove-less.
To get back to the thread subject, I think that you can go stove-less just as easily by buying in towns as you could by relying on mail-drops. However, as least as I am understanding the PCT as you get further north, it appears that you may need to rely on more mail-drops anyway so may be a moot point? Will be researching this as I plan my next years PCT section (Echo Lake to Ashland or so).
I've yet to find a c-store or grocery store that hasn't carried Heet both on the AT or the PCT (and everywhere in-between). So the argument that it is difficult to find fuel doesn't hold much weight with me. If you want to cook, cook. If you want to go stove-less, go stove-less.
That's not my experience.
Of course, we all have different experiences.
Out of habit, I still check grocery stores, gas stations and such in CO towns for HEET (and occasionally NM and UT)
Not always there.
And if a person is on foot, esp on a non-alphabet soup route that does not have ample guide books, a regular hiker culture/business and smart phone apps, looking around even a small town is not easy.
So while it may not hold much weight for you, it does for myself and others. :)
If cooking can become more of a "nice to have" rather than an "essential" part of a trip, then fuel availability is less of an issue. My big hang up remains hot coffee in the morning and I feel like a very light Esbit setup with a single wall ti cup is going to be the best solution. At times when fuel is available, I could also use this setup to freezer bag cook. Or not when fuel isn't available. For example, both couscous and mashed potatoes can be prepared with hot or cold water. Both are far better hot, but edible cold. If those are the dinner items on a segment of a trip, fuel is optional rather than required. If I carry caffeine pills as a backup to coffee, hot water for coffee is optional, not required. This adds flexibility to a trip which I like.
That's not my experience.
Of course, we all have different experiences.
Out of habit, I still check grocery stores, gas stations and such in CO towns for HEET (and occasionally NM and UT)
Not always there.
I'm not sure I've -ever- seen HEET available at a grocery store here.
10-K - you are a great hiker!
Have been hiking the AT for 9 years, was hoping to finish my 1st long distance backpacking journey this fall but my son had surgery and I need to be here for him
That said, the 9 years taught me a lot.........have ample extra gear to prove it, YES, including the requisite orange trowel, really?
Nobody should ever buy one of those ever again, the company should shut down tomorrow
FOOD = CALORIES
That's it.............once I got this food became like 5th on the list
Ramen uncooked, great stuff
When you walk into a store think calories then food
NUTS
INSTANT OATMEAL - ADD WATER
RAMEN - EAT AS IT IS OR HYDRATE
SARDINES
TUNA
SPAM
PEPPERONI
CHEESE
DRIED FRUIT
PRETZELS
PEANUT BUTTER
TORTILLAS
BAGELS
I love "stove-less" NO COOK mode. Can camp anywhere, simple, I am done dinner before most have finished cooking. No stove, no fuel, no clean up
lonehiker
07-31-2015, 13:56
So while it may not hold much weight for you, it does for myself and others. :)
I'm sure......
I just finished my first stoveless 10 day trip. OMG. I am totally a convert!
As for morning coffee, I'm going to experiment with the Starbucks cold vias. I'm not a fan of flavored coffee but willing to give it a try. I've tried regular via cold and didn't like it. I agree with you about the flavored coffees. I had a good experience with Nido and regular Starbucks Via cold. I found it worked well to make the coffee and let it sit for 10 mins so the coffee fully dissolves. I wanted the Nido/coffee for calories more than caffeine. I also took a No-Dose one day and skipped coffee and that worked well, too.
PS. I took my pot with the plan to buy Esbit if I really hated being stoveless. I resupplied at Echo Lake Chalet and they did not have Esbit. I also LOVED, LOVED, LOVED being stoveless and missed hot coffee for about 27 seconds one morning. So it all worked out.
One of the most surprising things to me was the times I was most glad to be stoveless. I thought I would miss hot food when it was cold and/or rainy. I was so glad to just be able to quickly eat and go to bed. I mostly ate "lunch" things, so I had no cleanup nor washing of pot in the rain/cold. But I often eat lunch food for dinner at home. (In 108 degree Visalia taking care of parents. :()
Thank you to Mags and all who have gone stoveless and wrote about it.
That logic lead me to try caffeine pills intead of drinking coffee. That experiment lasted one 10 day walk. At the resupply the coffee returned.
One of these days I will try the cold option.... maybe.
Never thought about caffeine pills...hmmm....naw.
I am a big coffee drinker when at home and in town. But for some reason when I am hiking I don't seem to care about it. I have taken the tea bag coffee things a few times but did not care for them and now I just don't worry about it. But there is lots of caffeine in chocolate and some of the energy bars so it is not like I am not getting some. I actually like cold coffee but then I lived in Greece for a few years and cold coffee in the summer is a staple there.
PS. I took my pot with the plan to buy Esbit if I really hated being stoveless. I resupplied at Echo Lake Chalet and they did not have Esbit. I also LOVED, LOVED, LOVED being stoveless and missed hot coffee for about 27 seconds one morning. So it all worked out.
One of the most surprising things to me was the times I was most glad to be stoveless. I thought I would miss hot food when it was cold and/or rainy. I was so glad to just be able to quickly eat and go to bed. I mostly ate "lunch" things, so I had no cleanup nor washing of pot in the rain/cold. But I often eat lunch food for dinner at home. (In 108 degree Visalia taking care of parents. :()
Thank you to Mags and all who have gone stoveless and wrote about it.
Just in case it was not mentioned (I did not read the whole thread). I am not using a stove either. One can rehydrate things like ramen, instant potatoes and those kind of dishes without hot water. I find that I don't have to buy anything different than I was before as I have always stayed away from items which require any cooking time. So when I decided to try and stop cooking I went in the kitchen and put all the different meals in zipo lock bags and poured cold water in them and they checked the time on how long it was till they were ready. Not long at all. Simple solution and it gets rid of significant weight.
The only time I might be tempted to do otherwise is if one was going to be in snow for several days or more and there might be a need to melt it for water. If you have to have water and all that is available is snow or ice and you have no stove that is an issue. If there is no way to focus the sun well enough to cause melting the last option is body heat. And that sucks big time.
Man can not live on cold food :-))))
I carried a stove for a few days, and decided to go without a stove on the AT. Had no issues with resupply and no maildrops from GA to PA. Mixed oatmeal in my peanut butter jar. Quick starts in the morning.