View Full Version : Internal or External frame for AT section hike?
Hi;
I want to hike the AT from New York to Vermont in the fall (mid October start).
I am kind of strapped for cash, so was thinking of trying an external frame pack, since they seem to run less expensive than internals.
I am male, about 6ft tall, and weigh about 150lb. I guess you could consider me kind of "lanky", although, as an ultramarathon runner, my legs are strong.
I haven't purchased much of my gear yet - I do have an old Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0F sleeping bag, which weighs about 4lbs, but I don't know if I will use it.
I don't have the tent I will be using either, but plan to go not higher than 3.5lbs total weight.
I will be traveling solo.
Any suggestions?
Arden
nsherry61
07-10-2015, 20:43
So 200ish miles?
15ish days?
1-3 resupplies?
35ish pounds total weight?
Grandma Gatewood did the whole hike with a small duffel bag . . . for about 10-20 lbs total weight.
Does a trampoline style stretched fabric frame pack like an Osprey Exos count as an internal or external frame?
It's only a couple weeks of your life. Either option will work if it fits well. Either option will suck if it doesn't fit well.
I would argue that your pack is the last thing you want to skimp on. What's a few dollars on a pack you will hopefully use for the next decade if you buy wisely. The old classic external frame packs almost don't exist any more for good reason . . . they work, but not as well as modern packs . . . except for maybe hauling super big,heavy and/or awkward loads like for hunters hauling large loads of meat.
Most people use internal frame packs these days because they carry well, weigh less, and are less awkward on narrower trails and/or rough terrain. The AT isn't narrow, but it can be rough in some places I hear.
Anyway. Go shopping at gear store with a good selection and knowledgeable staff. You'll be throwing your money away if you buy a bag that doesn't fit both you and your needs.
MuddyWaters
07-10-2015, 20:54
JPD did her first thru hike with her brothers old external frame scout pack that was too small for her, and a mop handle for a hiking pole.
Grandma Gatewood used a laundry sack
Lots of early thru hikers used frameless ruck sacks.
the gear doesnt matter much really.
REALLY, you've been a member of this forum for 5 years and you don't own a backpack?
Zach ADK
07-10-2015, 21:11
i started backpacking with an external frame pack that was given to me that was a little too short for me and had an unpadded 2" wide hip belt. It was rather uncomfortable so for about $30 including shipping I got an oldish Kelty Ridgeway external frame that has some adjustments for different heights and widths of person and is quite comfortable though not very light. I have used it for short backpacking trips and last year also began using it to carry a canoe overhead. I have not tried an internal frame pack yet so I can't make a comparison.
Zach
The Cleaner
07-10-2015, 22:29
I started backpacking in the late 70's and back then internal frame packs were more expensive and only mountain climbers used them.From 1980 to 1990 I hiked a little over 4K miles with loads of 40-50 lbs as resupply was more of a problem then.After trying 3 different internal frame packs,I went back to my Camp Trails external frame pack.I do mostly cold weather hiking and it takes more space for the extra gear needed.External frame packs let you pack and carry your load a bit higher.I have some back issues and the internal frame packs I tried just made it worse.The last few trips with my external frame pack got rid of this.Also I like to set my pack down on breaks and prop it up with my single Leki hiking pole.Most internal frame packs are like an egg and just roll over when you try to do this.Anyway the fit is most important so make sure any pack you buy has some way for a little wiggle room for tweaking the fit as you hike.
Starchild
07-11-2015, 07:18
I like external frames for heavier loads, really over 25 lbs or so minimum carry weight (usually on the way out) and for anything exceeding about 30 lbs at any time. I find it just distributes the load better. Once pack weight comes down jumping to a internal seems to give more freedom of movement and is lighter in itself.
I like external frames for heavier loads, really over 25 lbs or so minimum carry weight (usually on the way out) and for anything exceeding about 30 lbs at any time. I find it just distributes the load better. Once pack weight comes down jumping to a internal seems to give more freedom of movement and is lighter in itself.
+1 Own an REI Wonderland Trekker with a history similar to The Cleaner. Still carried it when load was more than 35#'s. Under 35#, I would suggest ULA Circuit and under 30# would go with the ULA Ohm or similar; along with cuben fiber choices. I am using the OHm 2.0 full time now for any overnight trip.
REALLY, you've been a member of this forum for 5 years and you don't own a backpack?
I did own a Gregory Wind River (medium size) pack until a few years ago when I sold it on Ebay. It was an excellent pack, but far too heave and large for my needs. I was always struggling with pack that weighed around 50lbs. One reason it was so heavy, is that I had purchased a two-man Mountain Hardwear NightView tent. It weighs 8lbs total.
I don't know what I was doing when I purchased that gear, except that I thought I was going to do a lot of winter backpacking. I never did, and got more into long distance running, so I sold the big pack.
The total distance for my proposed hike would be about 345 miles, if I start at the Peekskill NY train station and hike up the Camp Smith trail to Anthony's Nose where it meets the AT, and hike through to the VT/NH line. The plan is to take Amtrak home from White River Jct.
If I want to add another 18+ miles to the trek, I can start at the southwest corner of Harriman Park, in Suffern NY. I can take a train to that point, and buy my cooking gas at Davis Sport in Sloatsburg NY, as I am not supposed to carry it on the train. If I go to Peekskill, I'm not sure where I would buy the gas.
I have to agree with you guys who recommend an internal frame, if only for the reason that the stores probably won't have any external frame packs to try on.
couscous
07-11-2015, 16:18
I did own a Gregory Wind River (medium size) pack until a few years ago when I sold it on Ebay. It was an excellent pack, but far too heave and large for my needs.
I've kept my 7# Gregory Wind River (Med) so when the snow flies I can put (2) 40# salt bags in it and exerience how Tipi Walter hikes. It's only other uses are as a strap-on suitcase when flying and car camping.
Feral Bill
07-11-2015, 16:38
I have to agree with you guys who recommend an internal frame, if only for the reason that the stores probably won't have any external frame packs to try on.
Campmor has all sorts of packs to try on, and is in Northern NJ. I can't address the quality of their sales staff, but it sounds like you know enough to find what fits you.
Campmor has all sorts of packs to try on, and is in Northern NJ. I can't address the quality of their sales staff, but it sounds like you know enough to find what fits you.
They're the ones I trust most, and close to me. We also have Dick's Sporting, REI, and Ramsey Outdoor. There used to be an EMS store next door to Campmor (and Campmor needed to have security personnel out in their parking lot to make sure no one parked in their lot and walked to EMS), but that store is gone now. Closest one to me is Broadway at 76th st in midtown Manhattan.
I bought a Jansport Carson external frame at Dicks sporting goods in 2004 and hiked the whole trail. That said there are less external frame options now.
So yeah if money is a huge deal get over to Dicks(cheapest that I know of) and get a pack that's inexpensive and feels good whether external or internal. The hiker makes the hike, not the pack. (Though lighter packs are nicer if you can afford them of course!)
keep in mind getting enough room for your winter gear...vermont can get nippy in Nov.
Campmor has all sorts of packs to try on, and is in Northern NJ. I can't address the quality of their sales staff, but it sounds like you know enough to find what fits you.
Are you sure the store is still carrying external frame packs? The online store only has one adult x-ternal frame pack I believe. I got a Kelty Trekker from Campmor for $89 a few years back but even that pack is $160 now and Campmor does not carry it.
Slo-go'en
07-15-2015, 11:19
You can find old frame packs at yard sales and thrift stores for little money. Most will be the cheap department store type from the 70's, but still serviceable.
The real problem is the time frame of the hike. It's gonna be getting cold and stormy. Days are getting short with daylight savings kicking in the end of October. Because of that how far you can go in a day will suffer. You could very well run into snow or worse, freezing rain as you approach Vermont in November. I seriously doubt you'll make it to the Vermont/NH line. Hiking in Vermont in mid to late November is not for the faint of heart or ill prepared.
Your old 0 degree bag may no longer be up to stuff. See how much loft is left in it. If it doesn't fluff up to at least 3", it's history. Your gonna need some warm clothes, good boots and good rain gear. I'm not sure how you can pull this off not having any gear yet and being kinda strapped for cash.
Well, I was kind of hoping that GLOBAL WARMING would help me out and winter wouldn't kick in until January at the earliest <vbg>.
I do have a pair of Kolflach Degre boots and a set of 12 point crampons to fit them. I've also got an ice axe - but I doubt it would be required until reaching the Whites - which I do not intend to do. I've got lots of warm fleece. I have my 0 degree bag hanging in my closet, not stuffed in the sack, so it may have held its fluff. I'll have to be doing some shorter hikes in Sept and Oct to test out the gear I have, and what I will buy.
I think I can save enough money to buy the better - right - pack.
I will have many options on this hike for bailing out and getting on a bus or train home.
There is another option as well - hike south instead of north. From the west edge of Harriman Park (Harriman train station), I could hike south to VA or WV where winter shouldn't be such a problem in Nov.
I think I'll see what the long range weather patterns look like by mid October. It's not as if I was making reservations, so I can go either north or south.
My original plan was to go to Georgia and hike north, but I decided that it was silly to start my first section hike so far from home - to spend a total of $250 just to get to Amicalola Falls SP, when I could put better use to that money by spending it on gear and starting my hike much closer to home.
Slo-go'en
07-22-2015, 00:38
Head south from NJ. Heck, your already there.
Head south from NJ. Heck, your already there.
From NJ, not to NJ. I would head south to Harpers Ferry.
Actually, my plans have changed. I can now leave as early as Oct 1. That should get me to NH before the wx gets too bad. Either way, Harpers Ferry or VT/NH line - there's a train that will take me back home.
Kraken Skullz
08-03-2015, 11:11
Hi;
I want to hike the AT from New York to Vermont in the fall (mid October start).
I am kind of strapped for cash, so was thinking of trying an external frame pack, since they seem to run less expensive than internals.
I am male, about 6ft tall, and weigh about 150lb. I guess you could consider me kind of "lanky", although, as an ultramarathon runner, my legs are strong.
I haven't purchased much of my gear yet - I do have an old Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0F sleeping bag, which weighs about 4lbs, but I don't know if I will use it.
I don't have the tent I will be using either, but plan to go not higher than 3.5lbs total weight.
I will be traveling solo.
Any suggestions?
Arden
If you are still looking for a pack, I have a frameless Six Moon Designs pack with a thermarest z-lite support that would fit your needs perfectly. From my experience with the external frame packs, they aren't worth the weight penalty, especially if you get your gear down to 35lbs or less.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I have been around long enough to have found that sometimes a style is dominant because the profit margin is better. I am a long time bike rider and in this area, lots of expensive stuff is sold for that reason. I look at what most people buy figuring they also do their research, then just buy what I like best. Price is really not a concern for me. I have both internal and one external pack. The external is a Kelty Trekker. There are internal packs that weigh more and many that weigh less. If I was bushwhacking or steep rock climbing I would use an internal. On the AT either will work. There are aspects of both that I really like. The last AT hike I went on was with an external as I find it very comfortable, lot's of air flow. I have not decided what I will use when I start on my thru hike.
How are you getting to the trailhead and back home? With an external frame pack, you are typically going to have stuff lashed to the frame (tent, sleeping bag), and you are likely to want to put the whole thing in a bag for transport. With an internal fame pack, where you don't typically have a lot of dangling gear, you put a pack cover over the side that faces your back (to cover the straps), and the pack is ready to ride the bus, train, or plane.
I have used both types of packs. When climbing hills, going around bends, maneuvering through rocks and boulders, etc., the external tends to swing from one side to another. I don't care how I adjust it, it moves from side to side on my back just a bit and is annoying and uncomfortable to me. An internal frame hugs your back and is more comfortable, but it can get hot. I'd definitely say go for an internal frame.
CrumbSnatcher
08-04-2015, 22:25
wear what ya like, but to me its External on the Appalachian Trail.
my favorite is the Kelty Super Tioga
good luck & Happy Hiking :-)
Heliotrope
08-23-2015, 13:00
Hi;
I want to hike the AT from New York to Vermont in the fall (mid October start).
I am kind of strapped for cash, so was thinking of trying an external frame pack, since they seem to run less expensive than internals.
I am male, about 6ft tall, and weigh about 150lb. I guess you could consider me kind of "lanky", although, as an ultramarathon runner, my legs are strong.
I haven't purchased much of my gear yet - I do have an old Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0F sleeping bag, which weighs about 4lbs, but I don't know if I will use it.
I don't have the tent I will be using either, but plan to go not higher than 3.5lbs total weight.
I will be traveling solo.
Any suggestions?
Arden
Sounds like a great trip. I would be thinking of starting in VT. The colors will be at their best if not slightly past in mid October. Then you can ride the color wave south to NY. If possible start on October 1st. Have an awesome trip!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I walked most of the AT with an ancient Camp Trails external-frame pack. Did the final 1/3 using a more modern (2007) internal frame. It took me forever to find an internal frame pack that agreed with me, but having found it, there's no going back. The newer pack doesn't squeak or shift around, helps me maintain balance and clear obstacles by fitting closer to my body.
Due to family issues, I'm going to have to modify my hiking plans drastically. I am no longer planning a thru-hike from NY to VT. I will take several shorter hikes - perhaps starting where I left off each time, if I can get there by public transportation.
Still, I will hopefully be doing a lot of multi-day hiking in the Northeast starting in October.
I don't think that affects the pack I buy though. I am going to go shopping after Labor day. I expect that prices will be lower then, and I will have done enough research to feel comfortable in the store. I get very anxious when I walk into a store full of gear and don't know what I'm looking for. I could depend on the sales person, but those stores sometimes hire people who have never hiked a day with a full pack.
Casey & Gina
11-04-2015, 13:27
I have never tried an external frame pack, but envy some of what they seem to give you - ease of lashing all sorts of bulky items (CCF pads, for instance) to the outside, a sturdy support that can take the abuse of being set on the ground rather than the fabric bottom of your pack, ability to lean it against something or lean against it in a stable fashion, etc. Downsides often seem more characteristics of a poorly-made product than the choice of using an external frame - things like insufficient frame rigidity, failure points like weak pins that hold the shoulder straps to the frame, noise of the frame, etc. My internal frame pack weighs more than most external frame packs, and there are some downright light external frame packs out there. My wife carries a child carrier which uses a tubular aluminum frame - not the size of a typical external pack frame but no complaints about the comfort once the straps were adjusted correctly for her torso size (when not properly adjusted, she did complain).
I really do not believe that external frame packs are a bad choice at all, and have to fight temptation to order a Kelty Tioga 5500 to try one out for myself. The problem is that they are simply in lower demand and there are less on the market to choose from these days. There is more profit in selling internal frame packs and more social pressure to buy them. They offer an advantage in some instances where a thinner pack helps you get through an area easier. In 99% of the scenarios you are likely to encounter, I believe an external frame should work equally well, provided it carries the weight you need to comfortably.
Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 14:10
It depends on where you hike. I can't believe I used to carry a external frame pack here in NH and Maine. It made the trail a lot more difficult and in many areas down right dangerous. Once into Vermont you really, really want an internal frame pack.
This just hit my email inbox. Unaweep-arguably the best of both worlds. External/internal frame hybrid.
http://store.seekoutside.com/pack-system-builder-unaweep/
Favorably reviewed all over the internet. Ligght at 3 pounds, + or -. Load capacity: All you can stand.
Wayne
Zach ADK
11-04-2015, 14:49
I have an older Kelty Ridgeway external frame that I bought on eBay for $15 several years ago. I have not taken it on long backpacking trips but it has been fine for loops of up to 20 miles or so, and I think it would work for longer trips. The last two summers I have also been using it to carry a wood strip canoe. I took the top bar off and made a couple of little Y shaped things that slide down into the sockets that hold the top bar. The canoe goes on top of these, upside down. I have carried a canoe a few miles in a day with this, and if I wanted to use it for regular backpacking again I could just slide the Ys out and put the top bar back in. With the canoe plus paddle, life jacket, food and all of my stuff to camp for a couple of days I am carrying 60-80 pounds and the pack does not seem to complain. The same cannot be said for me.
Zach
Casey & Gina
11-06-2015, 01:19
I have never tried an external frame pack, but envy some of what they seem to give you - ease of lashing all sorts of bulky items (CCF pads, for instance) to the outside, a sturdy support that can take the abuse of being set on the ground rather than the fabric bottom of your pack, ability to lean it against something or lean against it in a stable fashion, etc. Downsides often seem more characteristics of a poorly-made product than the choice of using an external frame - things like insufficient frame rigidity, failure points like weak pins that hold the shoulder straps to the frame, noise of the frame, etc. My internal frame pack weighs more than most external frame packs, and there are some downright light external frame packs out there. My wife carries a child carrier which uses a tubular aluminum frame - not the size of a typical external pack frame but no complaints about the comfort once the straps were adjusted correctly for her torso size (when not properly adjusted, she did complain).
I really do not believe that external frame packs are a bad choice at all, and have to fight temptation to order a Kelty Tioga 5500 to try one out for myself. The problem is that they are simply in lower demand and there are less on the market to choose from these days. There is more profit in selling internal frame packs and more social pressure to buy them. They offer an advantage in some instances where a thinner pack helps you get through an area easier. In 99% of the scenarios you are likely to encounter, I believe an external frame should work equally well, provided it carries the weight you need to comfortably.
Well, I gave in to temptation and just ordered another pack I cannot justify at all - a Vargo Ti-Arc (http://www.vargooutdoors.com/ti-arc-backpack.html). It's not the sturdiest external frame pack and probably won't do well with the amount of weight I need to carry, but I want to test it out myself. It is innovative and very light, at 2lb 6oz.
The cuben fiber version (http://www.vargooutdoors.com/ti-arc-cf-backpack.html) is under 2lb, but lacks the 2 upper side pockets.
Revisiting this thread after a long hiatus...
I wound up purchasing the Osprey Atmos 65 online from Campmor.com. Although I live very close to the Campmor store, I chose to buy online because they offered 20% discount online only. That even beat my NY/NJ Trail conference discount of 10%, so I couldn't refuse.
Only problem is that I bought a large when I probably should have bought the medium. I have small hips, and the pack has been slipping down my hips, putting more stress on my shoulders. i needed to pull the hip straps to their absolute minimum length, with the hip belt adjusted to its smallest size. The shoulder harness had plenty of adjustment left. I am 5-11, so the height isn't a problem.
On my first trek - 4 days - I was adjusting the hip belt about once per hour, then finally gave up and let it "hang" on my shoulders. It wasn't really uncomfortable, but I felt that my torso was taking too much of the weight, when the pack was designed to put most of the weight on the hips. I tried re-packing the pack but that didn't help.
After that trek and I was back home, trying to think of some way of making the hip belt more secure. Note that I had the same issue with my first pack - the Gregory Wind River, which I bought in the store (Campmor) in a medium.
I did some Google searches, and found that I was not alone. Several articles I read pretty much concluded that if you don't have some sort of protrusion at the hips, then any pack isn't going to stay put.
So, I was thinking that, if I could effectively add to the circumference around my hips, then I would have more adjustment in the hip belt, and be able to pull it tighter.
I decided to purchase a weight lifting belt, which I hoped would add the bulk around my hips while remaining in place itself.
The concept worked, but every time I took the pack off, then went to put it back on, I needed to position the lifting belt, as the act of shouldering the pack caused the belt to slip up. After all, the weight lifting belt was intended to be worn around the lower abdomen, not the hips.
After my first trek of 3 more days using the lifting belt, I returned home and to the "drawing board". I had decided that I needed to secure the lifting belt to the pack's belt, so that it wouldn't slip on its own, or allow the pack to slip over it. I ran (literally, a 5K run in each direction) to REI and picked up a set of small velcro straps. I fitted these straps around the pack's hip belt - towards the back of the hip pockets - on the side with the trekking pole loop the straps goes under the elastic cord - and pulled them tight. This appears to hold the lifting belt in place on the hip belt, although it does cross over the very edge of each hip pocket, so that will restrict what I can put in those pockets by a bit.
I have put the pack on with about 20 lbs weight and it seems to work well, but I am waiting for my next trek - probably in a couple weeks - to give it the real test.
I suppose that had I purchased this pack in the medium size, it would have fit better, but I am not sure if it wouldn't have slipped down my (non-existent) hips anyway. The addition of the weight belt might add some friction. If the pack still slips over the belt, I may just add some rubber tape to the belt. Of course, if I could reduce the weight of the pack - I have carried 40 lbs on both treks - then maybe it wouldn't be such a problem. But I am still carrying the bear canister - almost 3 lbs empty - because I like the convenience and safety it provides. I will not however, be carrying my Yaesu FT60r amateur radio HT and its extra battery on my next trek. That reduces the pack weight by 2 lbs.
Arden
Casey & Gina
12-06-2015, 22:20
So the Ti-Arc didn't work for me - it simply couldn't handle as much weight as I need to carry (40 pounds, more with food). I have since purchased a Kelty Super Tioga from a forum member, and though it is a monstrous beast of a pack, it feels very comfortable. It carries weight very well (I stuffed it to the brim with about 55lbs to test it out), and I really like being able to lash stuff to the frame. I think it very well may be the pack that ends up coming with me on my thru hike, surprisingly enough. I wish that I could go to the store and choose from a wide selection of modern external frame packs like I can with internal frames as to me it seems there are clear advantages, but sadly it is not so.
I will report back after I get some miles in on a shakedown hike with it.
This just hit my email inbox. Unaweep-arguably the best of both worlds. External/internal frame hybrid.
http://store.seekoutside.com/pack-system-builder-unaweep/
Favorably reviewed all over the internet. Ligght at 3 pounds, + or -. Load capacity: All you can stand.
Wayne
Love my Unaweep. Still my favorite pack I own.
LoneStranger
12-07-2015, 08:00
@Arden Some of the Osprey packs have belts that are easily swapped out, but I'm not sure if the Atmos is one of them. Either way you might want to contact Osprey and see what they can do to help.
@raptelan I used a Super Tioga for most of my trips the last two years and really liked it, especially for heavier loads. Carrying the load higher on the frame let me keep it closer to my spine and had the added benefit of being cooler on the lower back. It does raise your center of gravity a bit so watch out for that when traversing ledges or climbing steeply :)
@egilbe Spent the last few months on the Seek Outside web site and calling them on the phone to discuss options. Finally narrowed my options down to exactly what I wanted, went to the website to order and found they have changed things heh. Time for another phone call, but I'm pretty sure the Unaweep is going to be my new favorite as well. What configuration did you get for yourself?
At the time, they made it in a Cuben Fiber Hybrid. I have a 6300, no side zip with 4 inch extensions to the lightweight frame. I have a base talon and a mesh talon and after they discontinued the cuben hybrid, I asked them to make a top pocket/ pouch for me in the same cuben. They searched around until they found enough scraps to make me one. Great customer service. Zpacks makes their pouches from the same cuben hybrid so it matches up nicely, haha. You can attach just about anything between the pack and talon. Makes a very versatile pack. I could probably pack like Tipi Walter if I was that much of a masochist :D
LoneStranger
12-07-2015, 11:30
I haven't had time to call them yet today, but it seems they may have discontinued the top packs as they aren't available as options on the web site any more. Losing that will impair my organization a bit, but I'm guessing between a 6300 and talon I should still have plenty of room. Hoping to get three weeks of food loaded so that shelf space might be needed at the start ;)
I just checked. I have the 4800, not the 6300. The 6300 is the packbag for the Evo only. The Unaweep frame is lighter weight. The Evo frame is made for 150# of carrying. Im never gonna haul that much gear.
3288732888
I bought a Kelty super tioga with the plans of loading it up with around 50 pounds to train with.I have found that I am really starting to like this pack,I normally carry about 35 pounds ,that weight includes 7 days of food and 1 and a half liters of water.I started this season with an osprey exos 58,,,,did not like it,the shoulder straps hurt my shoulders and all the straps were just to tiny.It would be a great pack for under 30 pounds I would bet.I since returned to my baltoro 65,it is a tried and true workhorse and will out last me.Now I am having a dilemma of choosing between the two.I plan a trip from harpers ferry to new hampshire in the early spring, and around october doing the northville placid trail in the adirondacks,I will most likely use the gregory for the new hampshire trip and the tioga for the new york trip.The ease of packing and unpacking the tioga really can spoil you,plus I am even going to carry a bear cannister in new york and have enough room so that nothing is lashed to the out side...The only reason I am leaning away from the tioga for the new hampshire trip is the size,,,the comfort is there as with the gregory
I haven't had time to call them yet today, but it seems they may have discontinued the top packs as they aren't available as options on the web site any more. Losing that will impair my organization a bit, but I'm guessing between a 6300 and talon I should still have plenty of room. Hoping to get three weeks of food loaded so that shelf space might be needed at the start ;)
I refuse to let my backpack loose it's Brain! :D :eek: :cool:. Another reason why I hang on to my Terraplane.
I was at Mystery Ranch online yesterday. The Terraplane is gone again. They have a whole line of ordinary, non-USA packs for the general population. Almost as bad as the post buyout at Dana Design.
New stuff ain't always better stuff.
Wayne
I refuse to let my backpack loose it's Brain! :D :eek: :cool:. Another reason why I hang on to my Terraplane.
I was at Mystery Ranch online yesterday. The Terraplane is gone again. They have a whole line of ordinary, non-USA packs for the general population. Almost as bad as the post buyout at Dana Design.
New stuff ain't always better stuff.
Wayne
seekoutside callsit a multilid. Its a brain
LoneStranger
12-07-2015, 15:18
Called them and found the lids are still available. They are reworking their web site and right now the lid isn't an option when building a bag order. You have to go to the Accessories section and order it separately. The same with the Cobra buckle.
I put my order in quick before they change it again :p
Casey & Gina
12-07-2015, 16:27
I refuse to let my backpack loose it's Brain! :D :eek: :cool:. Another reason why I hang on to my Terraplane.
I was at Mystery Ranch online yesterday. The Terraplane is gone again. They have a whole line of ordinary, non-USA packs for the general population. Almost as bad as the post buyout at Dana Design.
New stuff ain't always better stuff.
Wow, that's surprising. It was just there a few days ago. I wonder if the NICE frame packs are better. There a lot of Terraplanes on eBay, but of course if you want to get an optimum fit that can be a difficult venue.
It has been really eye-opening reading old literature and realizing that many of the modern expensive ultralight things we have are not significantly lighter than options that existed decades ago.
Here's something Kelty put out in the 1950's:
32901
Wow, that's surprising. It was just there a few days ago. I wonder if the NICE frame packs are better. There a lot of Terraplanes on eBay, but of course if you want to get an optimum fit that can be a difficult venue.
It has been really eye-opening reading old literature and realizing that many of the modern expensive ultralight things we have are not significantly lighter than options that existed decades ago.
Here's something Kelty put out in the 1950's:
32901
After I got my digital scale, I proved exactly that to myself. Case in Point: My solo Optimus aluminum cookset is lighter than a Snow Peak titanium pot of equal capacity. Aluminum has superior heat transfer properties relative to titanium. The Optimus kit cost maybe $10. Win. Win. Win. My 63 liter Jensen pack weighs 3 pounds. It fits. It holds all my stuff with room to spare, including my snowshoes and 0 degree Antelope. It's bulletproof. It's paid for. $55 as I recall. Win!!!!!!!!!!!! I could go on. But Y'all get the idea.
My Bozeman built Terraplane still weighs 6 pounds 12 ounces. If I could find an equal pack that weighs less I might buy it. The "equal pack" qualifier is the fly in the ointment. Dan McHale is probably the only person left who can build a pack that is equal enough to the Terraplane and lighter. For $900 I'll make do with the Terraplane.
The Garuda Atman tent is another classic piece of gear in my collection. It has it's faults, but I love it.
Wayne
The Osprey Atmos does not have an interchangeable belt, but the belt does have a long range of adjustment; I am at the very low end of the hip belt, but pretty well above minimum for the shoulder harness. Since I cannot seem to get my pack weight below 40 lbs - and that's for fall weather - will be heavier in winter - I am starting a weight lifting routine. If you can't lower the river, you've gotta raise the bridge :D
Revisiting this thread after a long hiatus...
I wound up purchasing the Osprey Atmos 65 online from Campmor.com. Although I live very close to the Campmor store, I chose to buy online because they offered 20% discount online only. That even beat my NY/NJ Trail conference discount of 10%, so I couldn't refuse.
Only problem is that I bought a large when I probably should have bought the medium. I have small hips, and the pack has been slipping down my hips, putting more stress on my shoulders. i needed to pull the hip straps to their absolute minimum length, with the hip belt adjusted to its smallest size. The shoulder harness had plenty of adjustment left. I am 5-11, so the height isn't a problem.
On my first trek - 4 days - I was adjusting the hip belt about once per hour, then finally gave up and let it "hang" on my shoulders. It wasn't really uncomfortable, but I felt that my torso was taking too much of the weight, when the pack was designed to put most of the weight on the hips. I tried re-packing the pack but that didn't help.
After that trek and I was back home, trying to think of some way of making the hip belt more secure. Note that I had the same issue with my first pack - the Gregory Wind River, which I bought in the store (Campmor) in a medium.
I did some Google searches, and found that I was not alone. Several articles I read pretty much concluded that if you don't have some sort of protrusion at the hips, then any pack isn't going to stay put.
So, I was thinking that, if I could effectively add to the circumference around my hips, then I would have more adjustment in the hip belt, and be able to pull it tighter.
I decided to purchase a weight lifting belt, which I hoped would add the bulk around my hips while remaining in place itself.
The concept worked, but every time I took the pack off, then went to put it back on, I needed to position the lifting belt, as the act of shouldering the pack caused the belt to slip up. After all, the weight lifting belt was intended to be worn around the lower abdomen, not the hips.
After my first trek of 3 more days using the lifting belt, I returned home and to the "drawing board". I had decided that I needed to secure the lifting belt to the pack's belt, so that it wouldn't slip on its own, or allow the pack to slip over it. I ran (literally, a 5K run in each direction) to REI and picked up a set of small velcro straps. I fitted these straps around the pack's hip belt - towards the back of the hip pockets - on the side with the trekking pole loop the straps goes under the elastic cord - and pulled them tight. This appears to hold the lifting belt in place on the hip belt, although it does cross over the very edge of each hip pocket, so that will restrict what I can put in those pockets by a bit.
I have put the pack on with about 20 lbs weight and it seems to work well, but I am waiting for my next trek - probably in a couple weeks - to give it the real test.
I suppose that had I purchased this pack in the medium size, it would have fit better, but I am not sure if it wouldn't have slipped down my (non-existent) hips anyway. The addition of the weight belt might add some friction. If the pack still slips over the belt, I may just add some rubber tape to the belt. Of course, if I could reduce the weight of the pack - I have carried 40 lbs on both treks - then maybe it wouldn't be such a problem. But I am still carrying the bear canister - almost 3 lbs empty - because I like the convenience and safety it provides. I will not however, be carrying my Yaesu FT60r amateur radio HT and its extra battery on my next trek. That reduces the pack weight by 2 lbs.
Arden
Do they make an additional hip pad? I think ULA makes one.
Best of luck.
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sliverstorm
12-08-2015, 16:07
It has been really eye-opening reading old literature and realizing that many of the modern expensive ultralight things we have are not significantly lighter than options that existed decades ago.
Here's something Kelty put out in the 1950's:
32901
Like with cars, modern stuff gets more complicated at around the same speed as it gets better. Figured out how to make the engine block out of aluminum instead of steel? Perfect, now we can add an extra 200lbs of sound deadening. Same goes with packs, as fabrics get lighter we add waterproofing or fancy suspension or extra pockets or... IMO there's a few places we have made really big advances (lighting comes to mind), but only a few. (Now, if you want to get into another sport of mine, rock climbing, we have made tremendous advancements in both safety and weight)
Super cool old document though, thank you. Any chance of getting a bit clearer photo? Little tough to read.
sliverstorm
12-08-2015, 16:13
After I got my digital scale, I proved exactly that to myself. Case in Point: My solo Optimus aluminum cookset is lighter than a Snow Peak titanium pot of equal capacity. Aluminum has superior heat transfer properties relative to titanium. The Optimus kit cost maybe $10. Win. Win. Win.
Another one that's a little hard to swallow sometimes- my little REI green plastic cup weights something like 1oz and cost $1.50, doesn't burn you, and doesn't cool your drink off in two seconds in an icy wind. The only thing my 2oz metal cup has on it is the ability to be used over a stove or fire, which has never been very important.
sliverstorm
12-08-2015, 16:25
http://www.rei.com/product/883964/light-my-fire-titanium-spork
^ 0.7oz, $15
http://www.rei.com/product/854547/light-my-fire-spork
^ 0.2oz, $3
Sorry, I realize I'm getting off in the weeds a bit, but wanted to share. Modern tech isn't automatically better. The point being if a external frame backpack suits your needs, go for it.
Casey & Gina
12-08-2015, 16:48
Another one that's a little hard to swallow sometimes- my little REI green plastic cup weights something like 1oz and cost $1.50, doesn't burn you, and doesn't cool your drink off in two seconds in an icy wind. The only thing my 2oz metal cup has on it is the ability to be used over a stove or fire, which has never been very important.
Not my document, sorry, I got that off of an eBay auction.
Like with cars, modern stuff gets more complicated at around the same speed as it gets better. Figured out how to make the engine block out of aluminum instead of steel? Perfect, now we can add an extra 200lbs of sound deadening. Same goes with packs, as fabrics get lighter we add waterproofing or fancy suspension or extra pockets or... IMO there's a few places we have made really big advances (lighting comes to mind), but only a few. (Now, if you want to get into another sport of mine, rock climbing, we have made tremendous advancements in both safety and weight)
Super cool old document though, thank you. Any chance of getting a bit clearer photo? Little tough to read.
I have a different take on new gear.
Time and materials cost cutting. So called "new & improved features" have little or nothing to do with function. Generally just the reverse. the makers tout the lighter weight and the public laps it up. Of course the new stuff is lighter, translation: flimsier.
How many daisy chains have you seen on a pack lately? How many functional external pockets? How many floating, convertible top pockets, "Brains" for the youngsters? Removable hip belts? And those are just things that have disappeared from backpacks in the name of "lighter weight." Tents have suffered the same reduction in functionality.
"New & Improved" = "We cut out a bunch of stuff to make it cheaper to build."
Wayne