View Full Version : Shelter snakes
wren again
07-19-2015, 14:25
What species are the tannish snakes that are found in the rafters of Trimpi Shelter? There were at least three during one night in July.
Traveler
07-19-2015, 15:33
To me, most all snakes I see are North American Death Adders, and I feel fortunate to escape with my life after the encounter. However, its hard to say what those may have been without an idea of the girth, length, or any other markings besides a tannish color.
The likely candidates of single colored snakes (no markings) would include; Worm snake (10" or so), Northern Ringneck snake when seen from the bottom may be a tannish color, dark brown on top (14" or so), Mole Kingsnake - though a little west for that one (35" or so), Northern Brown snake - very light markings on its back not visible from below (12" or so).
If there were any markings on them, they could be a lot of other types of snake that description would fit.
johnnybgood
07-19-2015, 15:33
Possibly northern copperheads, which would make them venomous. They're tannish copper colored snakes with darkened crossbands . They prey on rodents and are often seen around shelters.
You need to give us more information--there are many brownish snakes along the AT.
johnny, assuming that they are copperheads is silly. Much more likely that they are a harmless and non-venomous type, since the vast majority of snakes you see along the trail are non-venomous.
saltysack
07-20-2015, 07:13
I'm not snake expert but just about sh$$ on my self Saturday just outside hot springs when we walked up on this guy on the trail!!!! I had to push him off the trail with my trekking pole...then change my underwear... My 9 year old loved seeing it.....I'm now glad I use a fully enclosed shelter....for get the tarp!!!http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/20/7d1519a0c2f9e5076a3bf8d0aac953cd.jpg
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Easiest way to tell a venomous vs. non is the venomous ones have pupils like a cat (slits) and tend to have more texture to their skin. But that's it in a nutshell from a distance. <-- used to keep snakes as pets. Cornsnakes in the wild are really neat.
Traveler
07-20-2015, 19:39
I'll let you get close enough to discern the difference as I run off to find help.....
Roll the snake over. If it has one row of scales towards the end of its tail, it's probably venomous. If it has two rows it's not venomous.
wren again
07-21-2015, 06:36
Tan to yellowish, about 2 feet long, tan belly, some brown on top. Thin. No legs or facial hair. I didn't spend time looking closely due to helping the woman who was quickly moving to a tent during the storm. I was hoping someone else had seen them more ckearly at Trimpi and knew their species.
Moosling
07-21-2015, 07:36
Tan to yellowish, about 2 feet long, tan belly, some brown on top. Thin. No legs or facial hair. I didn't spend time looking closely due to helping the woman who was quickly moving to a tent during the storm. I was hoping someone else had seen them more ckearly at Trimpi and knew their species.
Did it have a pattern? Could be a Corn Snake, non venomous, if they are in the rafters thats my bet they like to climb just like Black Rat Snakes and they are from the Rat Snake family...Copperheads wouldn't be climbing around in the rafters they aren't designed for it (To fat and heavy with a stubbier body.)
Pringles
07-21-2015, 08:05
HI, I don't know where the Trimpi shelter is, though I'm thinking VA. Anyway, most state DNR's have a web page that has snakes found in that state, and pictures. I just looked and the VA Herpitological Society's page is here...
http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/snakes_of_virginia.htm
At least one, the racer, has both an adult and a juvenile picture. The juvenile looks like what you described. Click on the link for that snake, and you get lots of information (some that non-herpetoloists can understand!). Usually, if I want to know more, I dig around a bit and I find an e-mail address where I can ask someone who is likely to know the answer, or forward the question to someone who does. They'd probably be happy someone was interested.
Good luck. Pringles
rocketsocks
07-21-2015, 08:33
HI, I don't know where the Trimpi shelter is, though I'm thinking VA. Anyway, most state DNR's have a web page that has snakes found in that state, and pictures. I just looked and the VA Herpitological Society's page is here...
http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/snakes_of_virginia.htm
At least one, the racer, has both an adult and a juvenile picture. The juvenile looks like what you described. Click on the link for that snake, and you get lots of information (some that non-herpetoloists can understand!). Usually, if I want to know more, I dig around a bit and I find an e-mail address where I can ask someone who is likely to know the answer, or forward the question to someone who does. They'd probably be happy someone was interested.
Good luck. Pringles
Good call on the ident, and a great website, thanks Pringles
Pedaling Fool
07-21-2015, 08:53
Did it have a pattern? Could be a Corn Snake, non venomous, if they are in the rafters thats my bet they like to climb just like Black Rat Snakes and they are from the Rat Snake family...Copperheads wouldn't be climbing around in the rafters they aren't designed for it (To fat and heavy with a stubbier body.)That's a good point and one that I say with a little embarrassment that I don't know the answer to (without looking up on the net).
Can a rattlesnake or comparable fat snake climb the rafters? I know the black snakes are very good climbers, because I've seen them and they are excellent climbers. But I've also seen very large black snakes on the ground (I know they are only suppose to get to 6 feet, but this one looked like at least seven ft long, huge!)
I wonder how well he can climb and I wonder how well the smaller rattlers can climb...so many questions...
I just found out yesterday that groundhogs can climb trees -- never would've guess them fat little f***kers could climb so well. I know this now, only because I chased it up a tree when I was out in the woods yesterday.
Pedaling Fool
07-21-2015, 08:55
BTW, I'm wondering about the climbing ability of rattlers and copperheads and other fat-like snakes; I know Moosling only mentioned copperheads and I know the difference.
Moosling
07-21-2015, 09:02
That's a good point and one that I say with a little embarrassment that I don't know the answer to (without looking up on the net).
Can a rattlesnake or comparable fat snake climb the rafters? I know the black snakes are very good climbers, because I've seen them and they are excellent climbers. But I've also seen very large black snakes on the ground (I know they are only suppose to get to 6 feet, but this one looked like at least seven ft long, huge!)
I wonder how well he can climb and I wonder how well the smaller rattlers can climb...so many questions...
I just found out yesterday that groundhogs can climb trees -- never would've guess them fat little f***kers could climb so well. I know this now, only because I chased it up a tree when I was out in the woods yesterday.
Yeah Ratsnakes get close to 7 Ft long, still excellent climbers at that size. There are a lot of types of Rat Snakes too Black, Yellow, Corn snakes come in all kinds of colors and they can cross bread with the other Rat Snakes family members (Not with poisonous snakes as some believe in a Black Snake Rattlesnake hybrid, thats not possible.)
As far as little CopperHeads and Rattlers climbing I would never say they couldnt I just know they prefer to stay on the ground to hunt.
appompa255
07-21-2015, 17:40
What species are the tannish snakes that are found in the rafters of Trimpi Shelter? There were at least three during one night in July.
Note to self, check the shelters throughly before bedding down for the night.
Pringles
07-21-2015, 18:23
Note to self, check the shelters throughly before bedding down for the night.
I got to Vandeventer Shelter in a heavy rain and started reading the shelter log. It said there was a large black snake in the East end of the shelter. I got out my compass and moved accordingly. In the rain, I figured we'd just have to work out the my half and his half thing.
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I have seen a copperhead balled up in a small tree. I had a very good look at it since it was about two feet over my shoulder when I sat down. So I can confirm that they will climb, at least small trees.
appompa255
07-21-2015, 22:07
I got to Vandeventer Shelter in a heavy rain and started reading the shelter log. It said there was a large black snake in the East end of the shelter. I got out my compass and moved accordingly. In the rain, I figured we'd just have to work out the my half and his half thing.
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Second note, have compass handy. Lol
bigcranky
07-22-2015, 07:04
That Virginia site is terrific. I found it fascinating that the juveniles of the black rat and black racer snakes would be colored and patterned similarly to a copperhead -- not only is it some camo that helps them blend into the woods, it might also make other critters leave them alone (though it might make people kill them).
Moosling
07-22-2015, 07:36
That Virginia site is terrific. I found it fascinating that the juveniles of the black rat and black racer snakes would be colored and patterned similarly to a copperhead -- not only is it some camo that helps them blend into the woods, it might also make other critters leave them alone (though it might make people kill them).
Yeah its pretty awesome, sadly many get mistaken by people and killed though :( If you look carefully at the next adult Black Rat Snake you see sometimes you can see the pattern creeping through. I'll post some pics eventually of some of my catches out in the woods.
Rain Man
07-22-2015, 08:26
And a child shall lead them ... (click on photo for full-size version)
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/2/9/3/bake_knob_shelter_snake-med_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=4036)
My daughter Grass in Bake Oven Knob Shelter, PA during her '04 thru-hike. That's a big black snake above her head as she relaxes and enjoys her lunch.
Grass is my middle daughter. My youngest daughter used to breed corn snakes and sold the babies back to the pet store. In fact, just this week I was digging an old rotten stump in the backyard and found 10 snake eggs. She took them and is now incubating them. LOL
Moosling
07-22-2015, 08:43
Here is a nice Black Rat Snake I caught at Hanging Rock State park had to chase him up a tree
31416
And a Baby Black Rat I found in my neighborhood one evening.
31417
Pringles
07-22-2015, 08:51
Nice pictures Moosling.
twilight
07-22-2015, 09:29
I stopped at this shelter for lunch back in 04 and found the skin shed probably from this snake. I have picture of it at home someplace and still have the snake skin, too. Great spring there, too.
Twilight
twilight
07-22-2015, 09:32
My post was in response to Rainman's post above. Sorry I didn't use the quote feature.
Pringles
07-22-2015, 09:53
I was just looking a little further at that VA sight. It has a snake identification chart by length. It tells you the length range, and then the record length, and finally, whether the snake has stripes or blotches, etc.. It doesn't tell you about the colors, unfortunately, but it looks handy.
http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/snake_length.htm
wren again
07-22-2015, 11:44
Juvenile black racer would be my best guess.
I'm not snake expert but just about sh$$ on my self Saturday just outside hot springs when we walked up on this guy on the trail!!!! I had to push him off the trail with my trekking pole...then change my underwear... My 9 year old loved seeing it.....I'm now glad I use a fully enclosed shelter....for get the tarp!!!http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/20/7d1519a0c2f9e5076a3bf8d0aac953cd.jpg
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Looks like a beautifully marked Timber Rattler.
Yeah Ratsnakes get close to 7 Ft long, still excellent climbers at that size. There are a lot of types of Rat Snakes too Black, Yellow, Corn snakes come in all kinds of colors and they can cross bread with the other Rat Snakes family members (Not with poisonous snakes as some believe in a Black Snake Rattlesnake hybrid, thats not possible.)
As far as little CopperHeads and Rattlers climbing I would never say they couldnt I just know they prefer to stay on the ground to hunt.
Good take Moosling. I too have seen several differently marked Rat Snakes and Corn Snakes. Both are good hunters of rodents welcome at my tent site! The Rat Snakes do change color patterns as they grow too.
saltysack
07-22-2015, 12:08
https://vimeo.com/134216530
Looks like a beautifully marked Timber Rattler.
Damn he was loud....kept rattling for 20 minutes after we were long gone..took this clip after I moved him off the trail with trekking pole...pretty animal from a distance!! I didn't realize cainbrake ie timber rattlers were protected...need more to keep the shelter mice in check! But has me second guessing my love of night hiking! I assume they den up in cooler weather!!! I hope.....
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illabelle
07-22-2015, 13:02
Couple days ago, my daughter found the resident black snake in our chickenhouse had killed a half-grown guinea and was in the process of getting ready to eat it. When I got home, we dug the snake out of his nest in the hay and carried him 500' from the house way down the hill. Maybe by the time he finds his way back, the birds will be too big for him and he'll settle for eating just eggs.
Picture below is from the snake climbing up a small tree where we released him. Guinea bulge very much visible.
31419
Moosling
07-22-2015, 14:34
Couple days ago, my daughter found the resident black snake in our chickenhouse had killed a half-grown guinea and was in the process of getting ready to eat it. When I got home, we dug the snake out of his nest in the hay and carried him 500' from the house way down the hill. Maybe by the time he finds his way back, the birds will be too big for him and he'll settle for eating just eggs.
Picture below is from the snake climbing up a small tree where we released him. Guinea bulge very much visible.
Man its so great to hear from so many people that realize the importance of Snakes, most would have killed this one for getting into your henhouse. Other people need to realize without snakes we would be overrun with Rodents! And if you don't want the poisonous snakes keep the non venomous snakes around to eat their food supply, they will move on when they realize they have no food.
illabelle
07-22-2015, 15:25
Man its so great to hear from so many people that realize the importance of Snakes, most would have killed this one for getting into your henhouse. Other people need to realize without snakes we would be overrun with Rodents! And if you don't want the poisonous snakes keep the non venomous snakes around to eat their food supply, they will move on when they realize they have no food.
At the church I grew up in, in Oklahoma, there was this guy that had more snakes than the Oklahoma City zoo! Plenty of venomous ones were included in his collection. I guess with that background I've never understood the intense aversion to reptiles that so many people have. Snakes are actually pretty cool. :)
And just in case anybody's wondering, no, this wasn't a snake-handling church. :p
Alligator
07-22-2015, 16:03
I got to Vandeventer Shelter in a heavy rain and started reading the shelter log. It said there was a large black snake in the East end of the shelter. I got out my compass and moved accordingly. In the rain, I figured we'd just have to work out the my half and his half thing.
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Second note, have compass handy. LolCould have been using east is right of northbound AT direction. This doesn't always coincide with the actual compass direction.
Tenting might be best in such a situation.
Pringles
07-22-2015, 17:52
Could have been using east is right of northbound AT direction. This doesn't always coincide with the actual compass direction.
Tenting might be best in such a situation.
I didn't want to trust that the trail hadn't twisted around. And it was raining hard at the time. So I did the compass thing. We never saw the snake.
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Moosling
07-23-2015, 07:45
One more for your viewing pleasure, this was a 5 ft Black Racer, He bit me 5 or 6 times before I could get a chance to put him back in the woods. Beautiful Snake 31422
bangorme
07-23-2015, 09:41
One more for your viewing pleasure, this was a 5 ft Black Racer, He bit me 5 or 6 times before I could get a chance to put him back in the woods. Beautiful Snake 31422
Yeah, racers are notorious biters (if you pick them up of course). I used to carry the little ones in my pockets as a kid. Probably the safest place to sleep would be near one.
Rain Man
07-23-2015, 10:30
Couple days ago, my daughter found the resident black snake in our chickenhouse had killed a half-grown guinea and was in the process of getting ready to eat it. When I got home, we dug the snake out of his nest in the hay and carried him 500' from the house way down the hill.]
This is one of those times I wish WhiteBlaze had a "LIKE" button! Snakes are an important and valuable part of our world, no matter what Hollywood and similar morons might make them out to be.
Having said that, I know that Timber rattlesnakes roam a territory measured in square miles.
:)