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lobster
11-22-2005, 20:07
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saimyoji
11-22-2005, 20:13
Silence all trolls and ***** stirrers.

Lone Wolf
11-22-2005, 20:14
No shelters or "official" campsites

Mountain Dew
11-22-2005, 20:14
oh boy ... I'm betting this gets nasty in short order.


BUT.....

1. I'd change all of the information to reflect the flow of the crowd. South to NORTH dangit !!!

2. Since you said magic wand I'll say this..... Anytime somebody tried to talk politics in a shelter etc. they'd lose their voice for 24 hours...

3. No pay camp sites...

4. Hikers would be allowed to camp within a few feet of the huts in the whites if they wanted.

SGT Rock
11-22-2005, 20:20
Less crowded (it really isn't that bad, yet)

Less groomed, I like a more wild trail.

Less shelters.

Less blazes.

Mouse
11-22-2005, 20:23
I'm sure the more macho-minded might disagree with me, but I think I would make some of the really steep sections less life-threatening. I remember how FURIOUS I was with whoever planned some of those stretches.

I realize a few of them, like scrambling up granite-dome slip-and-slides, are partly due to the geology. But after all, your question DID allow use of a magic wand!

Bjorkin
11-22-2005, 20:33
Make it run through my back yard.

Lone Wolf
11-22-2005, 20:35
Bring back the PA road walk.

hikerjohnd
11-22-2005, 21:01
A privy at every shelter - I don't mind a cathole, but its nice to have a comfortable place to squat. :D

weary
11-22-2005, 21:05
if you could wave your magic wand?
I would create mile-wide buffers on both sides of the narrow trail corridor in Maine.

Weary www.matlt.org

Nightwalker
11-22-2005, 21:22
Bring back the PA road walk.
In your honor I roadwalked from Tesnatee to Hogpen Gap on my last GA trip. Great view, nice hill, traditional route.

Well, not totally in your honor, but you're one of the folks that have convinced me to "forget the rules," so to speak.

peter_pan
11-22-2005, 21:25
Take away all the signs and make map reading a practiced skill.

Pan

Skyline
11-22-2005, 21:33
More tentsites fit into sidehill like at the rehabbed Annapolis Rock, less shelter structures.

Eliminate rock scrambles where feasible.

Alligator
11-22-2005, 21:49
I would create mile-wide buffers on both sides of the narrow trail corridor in Maine.

Weary www.matlt.org (http://www.matlt.org)
Make it the entire length.

Tin Man
11-22-2005, 22:21
Less mice & more bars!

SKCM
11-22-2005, 22:39
If I could change one thing about the AT it would be to properly fund it to ensure it is properly funded and protected for the next generation of hikers.

On top of that ensure there is visionary leadership at the ATC to keep the wilderness and challenges incorperated into the trail.

SKCM

Moxie00
11-22-2005, 22:59
I would replace all the mice with lions, much more challanging. I would make the people who won't put privies at the shelters in the Smokies spend a summer camping in the designated poop areas. I would drill deep wells on the ridges in Virginia where you now have to walk 1/2 mile downhill to find a dry spring. I would take all the wonderful people I hiked with home and find them jobs and homes near mine. I would make cel phone use within a mile of the trail punishable by burning at the stake.

TJ aka Teej
11-22-2005, 23:29
I'd...
...put a cable bridge over the Kennebec, with the north end opposite Longley's Store.
...make doing 5 days of Trail maintainance along the way a requirement for getting a 2000 miler rocker.
...put Weary in charge of adding to and protecting the Trail buffer.
...bring back the optimistic "you can do it!" tone of the Philosopher's Guide to the Companion, pare down the details, and add endorsements.
...re-route the AT inside Baxter to behind Grassy Pond and come out behind the Birches.
...install a network of both blue and white blazes as the official route.

And speaking of rockers, I'd make that 2000 Miler Rocker a real rocking chair!

Mouse
11-22-2005, 23:34
I would make the people who won't put privies at the shelters in the Smokies spend a summer camping in the designated poop areas.

YES, YES, YES!!!! :jump :dance :clap :dance :clap :dance :jump

TwoForty
11-22-2005, 23:44
Make it run through my back yard.
I second that. Maybe route it through TTU so I can get some miles in on my way to class.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of a lot of the man made stuff, but I am a hypocrtie since I like stiles, shelters, firetowers, and trail towns.

MOWGLI
11-22-2005, 23:52
I would replace all the mice with lions, much more challanging. I would make the people who won't put privies at the shelters in the Smokies spend a summer camping in the designated poop areas. I would drill deep wells on the ridges in Virginia where you now have to walk 1/2 mile downhill to find a dry spring. I would take all the wonderful people I hiked with home and find them jobs and homes near mine. I would make cel phone use within a mile of the trail punishable by burning at the stake.


Moxie for President!!!

Bjorkin
11-23-2005, 00:07
I second that. Maybe route it through TTU so I can get some miles in on my way to class.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of a lot of the man made stuff, but I am a hypocrtie since I like stiles, shelters, firetowers, and trail towns.

Hey you live in Cookeville? One fun thing to use the Tech campus for is midnight frisbee golf. We used to have several courses made up using various building's front entrances as the tees and greens. Good late night fun with all the lighting a campus provides.

hikerjohnd
11-23-2005, 00:31
I would replace all the mice with lions, much more challanging. I would make the people who won't put privies at the shelters in the Smokies spend a summer camping in the designated poop areas. I would drill deep wells on the ridges in Virginia where you now have to walk 1/2 mile downhill to find a dry spring. I would take all the wonderful people I hiked with home and find them jobs and homes near mine. I would make cel phone use within a mile of the trail punishable by burning at the stake.

Milk just shot out of my nose! Moxie this is classic! :banana:banana:banana:banana:banana

Teatime
11-23-2005, 02:50
- More Shelters (or at least the current amount)
- More Official Campsites (with good water sources)
- More Blazes
- Well Groomed Trail

I am being serious.

c.coyle
11-23-2005, 07:37
...install a network of both blue and white blazes as the official route. ...

Now that is an interesting idea

TJ aka Teej
11-23-2005, 08:29
Now that is an interesting idea

It's an old one, too.

SGT Rock
11-23-2005, 08:54
And one that other trails such as the CDT and PCT use. The ATC has a couple of little words in their 2000 miler definition that gets some folks wrapped around the axle with the details of a hike instead of the big picture.

It would be cool someday to sit on Katahdin and compare routes taken with someone else finishing the trail. You both walked there and that is the point.

There are some that use the mountain climbing analogy to say if you skipped 10% of a trail, then it is like only climbing 90% of the way to the top of the mountain. I disagree. When you climb a mountain, say like Everest, there are multiple routes to the top. One hiker may go in from the west, another approach from the south, and another from the north east. All that matters in the end is getting to the top, not which exact route counts to do it.

Anyway, it only matters if you want the certificate and patch. If you hike for the real reasons people hike, and not to earn a trail "combat patch" it doesn't matter.

Peaks
11-23-2005, 09:07
Some good suggestions here.

I'd like to see the AT go through more towns, not around. For example, route it back through Monson, and route it through Gorham.

kyhipo
11-23-2005, 10:14
coffee shops at the roads with my wand and showers,And forest department required to give rides to towns,as we check their background:dance ky

Whistler
11-23-2005, 10:21
I like the SGT's ideas of fewer blazes and less grooming. I also like the idea of an App. Network of white & blue trails. Abandoning reality for a moment, and waving the magic wand, I'd get rid of powerlines and electric meadows.
-Mark

Dances with Mice
11-23-2005, 11:17
<waves magic wand> "Abra-Cadabra" POOF!

(cough, cough, cough) Uh, sorry about all the smoke. It's an old wand, I need to replace its magic rings.

Now there's an Appalachian Trail Network, a series of roughly parallel interlocking trails that hikers may choose among, starting with the Benton Mackaye Trail at Springer.

Footslogger
11-23-2005, 11:34
Had to think about this one for a while and to be honest I really wouldn't change much. However, in retrospect I would like to see the trail re-routed to avoid senseless climbs to elevations that offer no view or experience ...only burned calories. There are plenty of what I would call "legitimate climbs" between GA and ME to justify bypassing the PUD's.

Not suggesting that the trail be made any easier, just more purposeful in terms of effort invested. Any easier and the experience would not likely be as meaningful an accomplishment.

'Slogger

Mags
11-23-2005, 11:37
<waves magic="" wand=""> "Abra-Cadabra" POOF!

(cough, cough, cough) Uh, sorry about all the smoke. It's an old wand, I need to replace its magic rings.

Now there's an Appalachian Trail Network, a series of roughly parallel interlocking trails that hikers may choose among, starting with the Benton Mackaye Trail at Springer.


It is what happens in "real life" already; just not officially with the ATC. Tell them you hiked blue blaze trails to get from A to B and they still consider it "official' 2000 miler status. I wish the application reflected what they do in reality. C'est la vie.

As Rock mentioned, the western trails use this corridor approach. I like the mountain climbing analogy..I'm going to steal it for future use. ;)


My magic wand wishes:
--corridor approach becomes official
--no more shelter buidling; campsites gradually phased in more
--If the magic wand is really, really, really powerful a mile wide buffer on the trail would be nice. I'll setlle for protecting the lands in Maine, though: www.malt.org

</waves>

rickb
11-23-2005, 11:39
I like the mountain climbing analogy

Me too. Except that all that matters isn't whether you get to the top, but rather whether you get back to the bottom. :D

Nightwalker
11-23-2005, 11:47
if you could wave your magic wand?
Good thread starter, Oh red and boiled one.

I think a lot of times you get accused of trolling when you really, often, just want to get a good roaring thread going.

'course mebbe sometimes ya wanna stir the pot, too. :D

rickb
11-23-2005, 11:51
Apart from protecting the physical Trail, I'd wave my wand and give it back some if its mystery.

With so much information available as to all the wonderful things along the AT, I think some opportunity for discovery, surprise and astonishment has been lost. Not that anticipation is a bad thing :) .

weary
11-23-2005, 11:57
....Anyway, it only matters if you want the certificate and patch. If you hike for the real reasons people hike, and not to earn a trail "combat patch" it doesn't matter.
Sentence one is absolutely true. Sentence two is arguable. Some hike for the sake of hiking, which I suspect is the group Sarge is referring to. But some (many?, most?) view the AT not as a chance to explore a wild country and to enjoy six months in the woods and mountains, but simply as a challenge to be achieved. I was surprised in 1993 by the number of hikers who proclaimed their hatred of the trail, but continued to persist in their march to Katahdin.

I suspect included in the latter group may be those who want a more graded trail and more town walks. At least, I personally can't think of any rational reason for the trail to go through Monson -- other than to be able to claim to have done "all the trail" without the necessity of back tracking a couple of miles.

Having said that, I've never done the official trail that bypasses Monson. But I hope to one of these days. In '93 I was on a schedule to reach Katahdin before the park closed. In '91 when I did "all" of Maine with a grandson, we waited most of the day in Monson for my wife to deliver Jon a new pair of sneakers and had to get to the first shelter before dark. On section hikes in the area over the years, Monson was either a start or a finishing point.

Weary

Cookerhiker
11-23-2005, 12:10
If I could change one thing about the AT it would be to properly fund it to ensure it is properly funded and protected for the next generation of hikers.

On top of that ensure there is visionary leadership at the ATC to keep the wilderness and challenges incorperated into the trail.

SKCM

Agree with this sentiment. I would add that such funding's priority be to widen the corridors and protect the "viewsheds" from sprawl and other atrocities.

MOWGLI
11-23-2005, 12:13
Now there's an Appalachian Trail Network, a series of roughly parallel interlocking trails that hikers may choose among, starting with the Benton Mackaye Trail at Springer.

Funny you should say that. At the BMT Grand Opening, Morgan Sommerville, the ATC SE Regional Director expressed his hope that the BMT alternative in Great Smoky Mountain NP could be walked (instead of the AT) - and a hiker would still receive their 2000-miler recognition. How about them apples!

The NPS wants to see this route used to reduce use along the AT, which is the most crowded trail in the park according to Ranger George Minnigh. The BMT is also a lower route, so is safer during some of the freak weather events that occur every spring.

The photo below is of Morgan Sommerville from the Grand Opening ceremony.

Speer Carrier
11-23-2005, 12:13
I like it just the way it is. I wouldn't change a thing.

lobster
11-23-2005, 12:32
"Me too. Except that all that matters isn't whether you get to the top, but rather whether you get back to the bottom. :D"

I think Mallory and Irvine would have agreed!


"Apart from protecting the physical Trail, I'd wave my wand and give it back some if its mystery.
With so much information available as to all the wonderful things along the AT, I think some opportunity for discovery, surprise and astonishment has been lost. Not that anticipation is a bad thing :) ."

Not just concerning the AT, but in the whole world the "mystery" is being lost with cultural mixing and technology . Back 100-150 years ago, folks would go off on sailing ships and return home with tales of weird civilizations so much different than our own.

A re-route over Mt. Abraham and a Crocker skippage might be nice.
<!-- / message --><!-- / message -->

fiddlehead
11-23-2005, 12:42
I agree with Lobster on that. If i was to be starting out on my first ever thru hike of the AT. I think i would like to do it without any info. Take it as it comes. I don't want to know where i can buy everything i might need, what to expect around every corner, who runs what hostel or even where they are. When i travel internationally, i used to take the "Lonely Planet Guides" but i found out that these guides make everybody go to the same places and then those places cater to those types of people. You don't get to see the real country or indigenous people that way. You just get to see people travelling the same as you. Now i just go and ask the locals where to stay and where they like to eat and find that i get into some great talks with these people who are not used to speaking with foreigners. it makes all the difference in my travels and i learn what it's like to be a local. These books are fine if you are scared and need to know where you can get help in case of problems but......they take a lot away from the experience. wingfoot's book and the companion tend to do the same thing for the AT thru-hiker.

Ender
11-23-2005, 12:43
A flush toilet and an In-N-Out Burger every 20 miles, seperated by totally remote trail.

Seriously though, probably just try to make the trail a little more basic, fewer shelters, cut way way back on the number of white blazes (do I really need one every 50 feet when there's only one trail?), fewer people, more moose (those things are just the coolest).

And no zealots... of any kind. Environmental, political, religious, social, whatever. One-track mind people... gotta go.

Doctari
11-23-2005, 13:00
A mile or more PROTECTED area each side of the trail, for it's entire length.
Two Parallel ATs (less congestion?)
The phone back in the Jerry Cabin Shelter.
I am torn between adding & removing blazes. I think add a few more.
Switch backs (especially around the Cheoch bald area).
No more All My Cash huts in the whites (or anywhere). Or at least nearby shelters/campsites.
I am ambiguous about shelters*, but a privy every 10 – 15 miles would be stellar.
I like the “2,000 mile rocker an actual rocking chair” idea.
Also like the “At thru my back yard” idea.



*More people staying in shelters, means less in “My” campsite.

Footslogger
11-23-2005, 13:13
[quote=Doctari]
I am torn between adding & removing blazes. I think add a few more.
=========================================
I thought about this one too. In thinking back to my thru in 2003 what I would say is to do away with the ones that are on adjacent trees and add a few where you walk for an hour or so without seeing one.

'Slogger

the goat
11-23-2005, 13:51
i would put a wet bar every 25 miles......they would all be .3 or .5 off the trail though, so as preserve the "trail experience" of those who disapprove.:D

.....did i mention the part a/b topless bartenders?

Tin Man
11-23-2005, 14:21
i would put a wet bar every 25 miles......they would all be .3 or .5 off the trail though, so as preserve the "trail experience" of those who disapprove.:D

.....did i mention the part a/b topless bartenders?

How about putting the shelters to good use and turning them into wet bars? Many of them are off the trail. Regarding topless bartenders, I think most might prefer topless barmaids! However, I think any toplessness should be reserved for the occassional skinny dip at the swimming holes, otherwise the shelter bars would become mob controlled, become sexist places, attract both unruly types as well as protesters and things would get real ugly. Nice try though. :)

the goat
11-23-2005, 14:29
....yeah, my intent was for barmaids, i figure there are enough topless dudes in the woods. but i use the term "bartender" to refer to females as well, when i tended bar, all the women referred to themselves as "tenders" as opposed to "maids".....southern thing?

Tin Man
11-23-2005, 14:33
....yeah, my intent was for barmaids, i figure there are enough topless dudes in the woods. but i use the term "bartender" to refer to females as well, when i tended bar, all the women referred to themselves as "tenders" as opposed to "maids".....southern thing?

Probably not a southern thing. I was just making sure that we were on the same "side"..."not that there is anything wrong with it"

the goat
11-23-2005, 14:38
yup, we play for the same team....."not that there's anything wrong with it"...

Mags
11-23-2005, 14:45
[quote=fiddleheadWhen i travel internationally, i used to take the "Lonely Planet Guides" but i found out that these guides make everybody go to the same places and then those places cater to those types of people. You don't get to see the real country or indigenous people that way. You just get to see people travelling the same as you..[/quote]

When I was in Rome recently, would just wander. Only pull out my guidebook/map when I needed to get to somewhere.

Found many nice places off the beaten path that way. If the place had English on the menu, would not eat there. My bad Italian really got a work out this way, too.

Coming back to the trail situation, general guides are good. But I've noticed that many hikers (esp. ones who are used to the AT) want a more 'paint by numbers' guide to hiking. Not just if the town has grocery stores or restaurants..but which restaurants you should go to.

I wrote a Colorado Trail guide that is apprently getting a fair amount of use. The biggest comment (complaint?) people had was that they wish there was more town info. On the same note, when I did two PCT workshops for ALDHA-East, they went well for the most part., though some people commented that I gave too many options and not the "exact way on how to hike the PCT". :O Seems sme hikers want the "paint by numbers" method of hiking.

Tin Man
11-23-2005, 14:55
Seems some hikers want the "paint by numbers" method of hiking.

I am curious. Do the "paint by numbers" type have any experience? The more experience I gain, the less I want to plan. Sure, I know I have to have a general idea of what is needed and what I can expect, but I no longer want to know all the minutiae. I want to leave some things to be discovered. After all, where is the adventure, if you take all the adventure out?

Mags
11-23-2005, 15:20
I am curious. Do the "paint by numbers" type have any experience? The more experience I gain, the less I want to plan. Sure, I know I have to have a general idea of what is needed and what I can expect, but I no longer want to know all the minutiae. I want to leave some things to be discovered. After all, where is the adventure, if you take all the adventure out?
hmm..good question.

Think it is a mixture of experience and personality. I know many AT thru-hiker veterans who want a very detailed guidebook for other hikes ala the AT Books. When I started long distance hiking, I appreciated the detailed guide. Now, not so much.


Like you, I fall in the middle. Want to know the basics (there is a town off RT 66 that has a good sized grocery store), but don't need to know which restaurant has the AYCE buffet on Thurs at 6pm.

just my .02

RockyTrail
11-23-2005, 15:21
...I would put up a "force field" along the AT to keep the proposed I-3 from blasting through Helen, Unicoi Gap, and Hiawassee. What a tragedy and waste of not only natural resources but taxpayers' dollars as well.:(

Tin Man
11-23-2005, 17:00
Like you, I fall in the middle. Want to know the basics (there is a town off RT 66 that has a good sized grocery store), but don't need to know which restaurant has the AYCE buffet on Thurs at 6pm.

just my .02

The AYCE's and other "hot spots" tend to come and go. The trail registers usually have entries describing what's "hot" now.

SavageLlama
11-23-2005, 17:23
Two words: Shelter Taverns

weary
11-23-2005, 19:02
I wrote a Colorado Trail guide that is apprently getting a fair amount of use. The biggest comment (complaint?) people had was that they wish there was more town info. On the same note, when I did two PCT workshops for ALDHA-East, they went well for the most part., though some people commented that I gave too many options and not the "exact way on how to hike the PCT". :O Seems sme hikers want the "paint by numbers" method of hiking.
I, personally, don't need a "paint by the numbers" description of the trail. Trails are trails. One's experience varies so widely, depending on weather, season, luck, whatever, that previous experience really can't tell us much.

But since most of us don't walk 2,175 miles very often, or do a section more than once or twice, information about town facilities tends to be useful. Sure, it's nice to discover AN OUT-OF-THE-WAY- RESTAURANT that no one else knows about. However, I prefer to get the best advice I can get before I walk into a trail town that I'm unlikely to ever see again.

Ideally, trail guides should emphasize the comments of local people. But any advice is better than none when I'm hungry and want the best possible meal I can get, and quickly.

TooTall
11-23-2005, 19:48
I am curious. Do the "paint by numbers" type have any experience? The more experience I gain, the less I want to plan. Sure, I know I have to have a general idea of what is needed and what I can expect, but I no longer want to know all the minutiae. I want to leave some things to be discovered. After all, where is the adventure, if you take all the adventure out?

I'd bet most of the "paint by numbers" folks are just doing good time management. They don't want to waste time searching around for a restaurant or store. They want to get into town, get resupplied and refreshed, then get back out on the trail. Gotta get those miles in otherwise you won't make it to the finish.

Too Tall Paul

smokymtnsteve
11-23-2005, 19:51
geting away from good time management is why I hike,,
'
I just want to have a good time...forget the management :rolleyes:

Blue Jay
11-23-2005, 21:56
Absolutely nothing. It has already evolved to be one of the greatest things that humans have ever accomplished. Long live all who have made it the joy that it is.

Tin Man
11-23-2005, 22:09
Absolutely nothing. It has already evolved to be one of the greatest things that humans have ever accomplished. Long live all who have made it the joy that it is.

I couldn't agree more. We just need to protect what it is from the over-protectionists.

Belew
11-23-2005, 22:09
mandatory kennebec ford with a Dot's Inn franchise on the north bank and I think I wound get the Great Gazoo to come along

prozac
11-26-2005, 15:22
A Miss Janets or Doyle Hotel franchise about every 100 miles would be nice. On second thought, build both.

weary
11-26-2005, 17:17
I couldn't agree more. We just need to protect what it is from the over-protectionists.
Okay. Now tell us who the over-protectionists are. And what is it that they are trying to do that you object to.

weary
11-26-2005, 17:21
A Miss Janets or Doyle Hotel franchise about every 100 miles would be nice. On second thought, build both.
Nay. Build 'em in Monson at the start of the "100-mile-wilderness," if you want. But please, not at Abol Bridge on the border of Baxter State Park.

TooTall
11-27-2005, 00:29
More water sources that don't go dry in the summer.

Tin Man
11-27-2005, 08:59
Okay. Now tell us who the over-protectionists are. And what is it that they are trying to do that you object to.

I was referring to "rabid environmentalists" who would let the southern balds go back to forest. I object to those who move sites away from lakes and ponds due to "overuse". I object to those who manage to ban campfires at more sites each year. I was referring to those who want to make changes to protect a few ferns and mosses and take the camp out of camping.

Please don't mistake my comments that I believe people should be allowed to drive their ATV's or mountain bikes down the trail, but I do believe hikers and campers should be allowed to hike and camp without a ton of regulations. Leave no trace and leave the balds and campfires alone!

saimyoji
11-27-2005, 11:40
If you hike 40 miles into the wilderness, carrying all your gear, carrying out all your trash...you should be able to have a campfire. Now, I can agree that the last thing we want is to hike down the trail and see fire circles every 10 feet. We can regulate fires to certain areas.....But, IMO, if you leave no trace, who will know anyway? Provided the rangers agree to do their rangering after breakfast. :D

MOWGLI
11-27-2005, 11:44
I was referring to "rabid environmentalists" who would let the southern balds go back to forest.

....leave the balds and campfires alone!

If you leave the balds alone they'll revert to forest. So which is it?

weary
11-27-2005, 12:10
I was referring to "rabid environmentalists" who would let the southern balds go back to forest. I object to those who move sites away from lakes and ponds due to "overuse". I object to those who manage to ban campfires at more sites each year. I was referring to those who want to make changes to protect a few ferns and mosses and take the camp out of camping.

Please don't mistake my comments that I believe people should be allowed to drive their ATV's or mountain bikes down the trail, but I do believe hikers and campers should be allowed to hike and camp without a ton of regulations. Leave no trace and leave the balds and campfires alone!
I doubt if there is anyway to preserve the southern balds without importing the goats, sheep and cattle that made them balds in the first place. The cutting of brush every few years just produces an ugly artificial environment. Trees would be preferable in my opinion.

I haven't seen many serious attempts in Maine to ban campfires, or to move campsites away from lakes and ponds. MATC did replace the Horns POnd lean-tos. The new shelters were built a few feet across the ridgeline to get them out of the drainage area of the pond.

The worry was less "over use," and more to prevent the pond from developing algae growth from the nutrients from camping draining into the pond, which would also draw the ire of hikers.

Tin Man
11-27-2005, 12:47
If you leave the balds alone they'll revert to forest. So which is it?

Sorry. I meant I prefer to find a way to help the balds remain bald.

Tin Man
11-27-2005, 13:04
I doubt if there is anyway to preserve the southern balds without importing the goats, sheep and cattle that made them balds in the first place. The cutting of brush every few years just produces an ugly artificial environment. Trees would be preferable in my opinion.

Hmm. Well, perhaps I should go hike them while they are still bald. However, due to life's obligations that is not likely to happen anytime soon.

[/QUOTE=weary]I haven't seen many serious attempts in Maine to ban campfires, or to move campsites away from lakes and ponds. MATC did replace the Horns POnd lean-tos. The new shelters were built a few feet across the ridgeline to get them out of the drainage area of the pond.

The worry was less "over use," and more to prevent the pond from developing algae growth from the nutrients from camping draining into the pond, which would also draw the ire of hikers.[/QUOTE]

The shared AT/LT section in Vermont has seen a number of sites moved off the lakes and ponds. Admittedly, this may have been needed for similar reasons regarding the impact on the pond. One area (Griffith Lake, I think) handled it quite well by moving the tent sites away from the pond and leaving a nice open area with fire ring next to the pond. We had a nice campfire and could enjoy the pond and the sunset while minimizing any impact our camping might have on the pond or site. The rest of the VT ponds seemed to be more accommodating to trees and plants than the people who come to respect and enjoy the outdoors.

Regarding campfires, they are banned in NJ and CT period. Campfires are banned at several shelters in VT, including Stratton Pond and Killington area shelters. I have heard of other areas and shelters in the south putting more restrictions on fires as well. There is nothing like a nice campfire to warm the soul after a long day of hiking.

MOWGLI
11-27-2005, 13:30
Sorry. I meant I prefer to find a way to help the balds remain bald.

No apology necessary! Lots of folks probably aren't aware that the balds require active management - usually by the USFS or NPS - depending on where the land is located.

Mags
11-27-2005, 19:22
Sure, it's nice to discover AN OUT-OF-THE-WAY- RESTAURANT that no one else knows about. However, I prefer to get the best advice I can get before I walk into a trail town that I'm unlikely to ever see again.





I dunno..I am out there for hiking. Not the Zagat Guide to fine trail town dining. :) So hard to go into town and say "Hey..that place is open right now and I'm hungry" ?

In any case..if you desire a trail that can be done as a paint by numbers journey, the AT should work.
(not to say you have to..just the guidebooks give you all the info ..if you want it).

Just my .02... What works for me, etc. etc.

weary
11-27-2005, 21:06
I dunno..I am out there for hiking. Not the Zagat Guide to fine trail town dining. :) So hard to go into town and say "Hey..that place is open right now and I'm hungry" ?
In any case..if you desire a trail that can be done as a paint by numbers journey, the AT should work.
(not to say you have to..just the guidebooks give you all the info ..if you want it).
Just my .02... What works for me, etc. etc.
Well, Mags, if you have a couple of hours or maybe an overnight to stay in a town, and there are two places across the street from each other, in a town you are unlikely to ever visit again, some of us prefer to listen to whatever advice we can find from folks who have been there before.

Yeah, I know. Some "thru hikers" are so fast that they have the time to investigate every eatery in every town they come to. Two, three, five day stays maybe common.

But for us tiny minority of trail old folks, we like to make the best use of our time. Not "paint by numbers," but at least a hint or two about where best to spend our money and time. I met a few kids on the trail, who had the same idea. When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice.

Weary

rickb
11-27-2005, 21:20
I remember getting a popular trail guide to Rock Mountain National Park. Not sure its name, but it had a line drawing of a pair of boots on the front cover.

Being used to the AMC style guides, I was shocked by how much wasn't in it, and felt rather cheated when it came in the mail.

In the end, it was ideal. What it lacked in mentioning "water sources" and the like, it made up for with other really important stuff-- like making mention of an Ouzal (a small sparrow sized bird that dives under the water of fast flowing streams).

But guides are just one element of info out there. Between on line journals, books, websites and old farts a "well prepared" AT hiker can know a whole lot about the Trail before taking his first step on it. That does lesson the sense of discovery, IMHO.

I look at it this way-- I don't mind someone recommending a movie, but please don't tell me the entire plot!

Mags
11-28-2005, 14:02
But for us tiny minority of trail old folks, we like to make the best use of our time. Not "paint by numbers," but at least a hint or two about where best to spend our money and time. I met a few kids on the trail, who had the same idea. When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice.

Weary

Weary, I am going to ask you a blunt question: Why do your answers have to be deameaning?

One thing to have an opinion...another thing to anwer in such a way that makes the person look like crap for even daring to have an opinion different from yours.

Marta
11-28-2005, 14:09
Hey you live in Cookeville? One fun thing to use the Tech campus for is midnight frisbee golf. We used to have several courses made up using various building's front entrances as the tees and greens. Good late night fun with all the lighting a campus provides.

I was in Cookeville over the holiday. My sons went to the Frisbee golf course to play on Friday and the park gate was padlocked. :( They didn't know about the on-campus option...

Mags
11-28-2005, 14:13
I
I look at it this way-- I don't mind someone recommending a movie, but please don't tell me the entire plot!

Exactly. I don't want to know exactly what gear to bring, what exact place to eat, what aisle in the grocery stocks cheese, whatever.

All I am saying is that manty people what to know EXACTLY how to hike a trail. (The restaurants was just one example that some people really did not like I guess!). That is what I mean as a "paint by numbers hike". Take X gear, bring Y food, do Z in town = successful thru-hike.

We are spoiled on the AT by the amount of info. You can do a "paint by numbers" hike very easily on the AT. No thinking required.

I'd like to think, though, that there is more to the AT than just blazing through a town in an already described way. More than one way to see what is over the horizon. If you want to see what is from Georgia to Maine, explore a little. If you want to hike the AT is the most "efficient" manner, do the trail like other people say.

To each their own, though. As I honestly believe, whatever works for you. No insults needed!

weary
11-28-2005, 14:20
Weary, I am going to ask you a blunt question: Why do your answers have to be deameaning?

One thing to have an opinion...another thing to anwer in such a way that makes the person look like crap for even daring to have an opinion different from yours.
All I can say is i didn't mean for my words to be demeaning. I just expressed an opinion:

"Well, Mags, if you have a couple of hours or maybe an overnight to stay in a town, and there are two places across the street from each other, in a town you are unlikely to ever visit again, some of us prefer to listen to whatever advice we can find from folks who have been there before.

"Yeah, I know. Some "thru hikers" are so fast that they have the time to investigate every eatery in every town they come to. Two, three, five day stays maybe common.

"But for us tiny minority of trail old folks, we like to make the best use of our time. Not "paint by numbers," but at least a hint or two about where best to spend our money and time. I met a few kids on the trail, who had the same idea. When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice."

Tell me what's demeaning about those words and I'll try to do better the next time.

Weary

rickb
11-28-2005, 14:35
I think its because you didn't respect Mag's chicken jokes in another thread. :D

the goat
11-28-2005, 14:59
I think its because you didn't respect Mag's chicken jokes in another thread. :D

ah-hem....i believe those were GOAT jokes...:D

Mags
11-28-2005, 15:42
I think its because you didn't respect Mag's chicken jokes in another thread. :D

No..it was this line: "When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice."

Totally dripping with sarcasm meant to show what a superior fellow he is. And he does it on every single damn post to people he does not agree with...

If I wanted to deal with people who think they are superior, I'd go to political convention.

Whatever...

trippclark
11-28-2005, 16:17
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">if you could wave your magic wand?</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

ESCALATORS!! :D

(Just kidding, of course!)

rhjanes
11-28-2005, 16:44
ESCALATORS!! :D

(Just kidding, of course!)

too much work....what with having to step on and off it.

Elevators would be better. enter (guess you do have to step), push button. enjoy next stop.... :-?

trippclark
11-28-2005, 16:51
too much work....what with having to step on and off it.

Elevators would be better. enter (guess you do have to step), push button. enjoy next stop.... :-?

Only clear glass elevators . . . you gotta have a view!

Disney
11-28-2005, 17:05
I have to say the protected mosquito breeding grounds in Mass. seemed like one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. I'm not a big runner but I jogged (like everyone else that day) through there.

and as long as it's magic, never worry about treating any water whatsoever. And the everlasting guinness tap in every shelter.

lobster
11-28-2005, 23:48
How about only conservatives on the trail!

rickb
11-28-2005, 23:54
How about only conservatives on the trail!

A conservative on the trail is a person who still has fuel in his bottle when he walks into town, right?

If so, I agree. Way to many ounce weenies out there.

The Desperado
11-29-2005, 00:12
In the Killington area i'd put the trail back where it was ---passing the good ole Long Trail Inn !
I'd do a double check on all personalities for ridge runners..rangers..park personnel etc [ their not a bad bunch...but some....aaargh!!!
MORE WATER points for the N J trail....geez
I'd have worthingtons bakery returned just like it was in the 60's........yummy!!!

lobster
11-29-2005, 00:19
I'd get rid of the switchbacks near the top of that steep little climb after you cross the road at Stecoah Gap!

weary
11-29-2005, 18:12
No..it was this line: "When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice."

Totally dripping with sarcasm meant to show what a superior fellow he is. And he does it on every single damn post to people he does not agree with...

If I wanted to deal with people who think they are superior, I'd go to political convention.

Whatever...
Hmmm. "When I return to the trail, I'll surely refer them to your wiser advice."
certainly wasn't meant to be demeaning, or sarcastic, or to suggest superiority. I do have a quirky sense of humor, or sense of irony, which I express sometimes in posts.

I don't always think a great deal about what I post in these forums. And I rarely give advice, mostly because my hiking gear is rarely state of the art and my age and infirmities are not translatable to most active hikers in these forums.

So when I offer an opinion that is contrary to what others have expressed I tend to add a sentence or phrase referring people back to more pertinent opinions. Mags now tell us that some misunderstand the reason for this practice. I guess I should think more carefully about how some may interpret my off the cuff comments.

Having said this, I do have favorites among those who post on White Blaze. High among them are those whose signatures include a Thoreau quote.

Weary

the goat
11-29-2005, 18:15
I do have favorites among those who post on White Blaze.

cut it out weary, you're gonna make me blush :o

weary
11-29-2005, 18:21
cut it out weary, you're gonna make me blush :o
I've owned goats, milked goats (only females) and know goats. Goats rank among the creatures I know and admire most. Goats do not blush, at least visibly.

foodbag
12-10-2005, 17:07
I found the trail in Pennsylvania to be way too smooth for my liking, therefore I would add more rocks to it. They would all be at least 4 inches tall and shaped like a shark tooth and the space between them would be about 1-3 inches.