Sleep aids that work best?

[saltysack]

I posted similar thread several months ago and tried to locate with no luck...I can't seem to sleep good in backcountry...I've use neoair..not hot or cold just can't seem to fall asleep even after a long day...I'm not one to take pills but for my upcoming jet hike with higher than normal mileage days I need to get good sleep....stopped drinking coffee after breakfast..so not caffeine related....I seem to remember others recommending Benadryl as I already carry a few in my first aid kit....is it safe and effective to take daily for 2+weeks?


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[saltysack]

Jmt....damn auto correct!


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[MuddyWaters]

I wouldnt take drugs to sleep.
Earplugs work for me. Without auditory distractions, I fall asleep easier.

[saltysack]

I wouldnt take drugs to sleep.
Earplugs work for me. Without auditory distractions, I fall asleep easier.

I've tried ear plugs. Didn't seem to help much....I guess I'll try them again. The Neoair is noisy when you move on it...i'm not a big fan of taking pills but alternative is not completing the hike without sleep..


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[Toolumpy]

If you take a pain med normally try Advil PM one hour prior to going to deb, may help.

[map man]

Here's your previous thread on this topic:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/108560-Sleeping-tips-on-trail-don-t-sleep-well?highlight=

[Venchka]

Advil PM worked for me on transatlantic flights. Ireland to Labrador. Slept soundly.

Wayne


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[nsherry61]

For what it's worth, Advil PM is just Advil with a little diphenhydramine added, in other words a little benadryl added.

[saltysack]

If you take a pain med normally try Advil PM one hour prior to going to deb, may help.

Perfect....vit I w Benadryl....2 in 1.....I'll try...


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[Venchka]

No wonder. Benadryl knocks me out. I got a shot (literally an injection) of Benadryl once. I barely drove home before crashing in bed for 24 hours.
On the other hand, in a few instances when I didn't go to sleep immediately after taking Advil PM, I was a wreck. Tossing. Turning. Skin crawling. Wrecked. YMMV. A shot of Bourbon works for me as well.

Wayne


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[OCDave]

saltysack,

Do you work indoors when you are not hiking? A dramatic increase in your sunlight exposure could supress your body's melatonin secretion. Melatonin secretion is inhibited by environmental light and stimulated by
darkness. As we age, our bodies produce less melatoin. There is a fair amount of evidence that melatonin derangement is associated with sleep inpairment. Melatonin supplements are available OTC. Consider begining with 1mg dose. Increase the dose every night until you find a dose that works for you or you reach 10-12 mg.

[nsherry61]

I really like the idea of a shot of two of your liquor of choice. Fun AND useful, if slightly heavier than a benadryl?

[ChrisJackson]

Have you tried reading at night? It knocks me out... Sometimes I don't even get through a page but generally after about half an hour I'm out...works the same at home for the most part. Have a great JMT! I'm hoping for a trip in 2017...looking forward to a trip report!

[Slo-go'en]

I bet you get more sleep then you realize. Environmental things keep me from going right to sleep. I need near silence and that can be hard to come by some nights due to wind or rain or snorers or all three! A bad tent site can be a major inhibitor to sleeping. It can seem like I'll never go to sleep. But then all of a sudden the suns up and I'm reasonably refreshed, if for no other reason then the fact I just spent the last 8 to 10 hours laying down...

[TNhiker]

smoke a joint (in legal and medical states of course, in order to fulfill the TOA)........

and read..............

[bigcranky]

Having popped way more than my share of Vitamin I and other NSAIDs while hiking, the Advil PM sounds good until you read the latest stuff on pain relievers and heart issues.

Just the benadryl for me, thanks. Though I normally find that only the first night is restless, and I sleep very well after that.

[Donde]

Chew some valerian root, and get more exercise, this should really resolve itself after a few days

[Venchka]

I really like the idea of a shot of two of your liquor of choice. Fun AND useful, if slightly heavier than a benadryl?
And cooking fuel in an EXTREME emergency.
I have heard that getting away from artificial light and adapting to the natural day-night cycle over comes sleeping disorders.

Wayne

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[saltysack]

Chew some valerian root, and get more exercise, this should really resolve itself after a few days

Walking 15-20 mpd isn't enough? Some one shoot me!![emoji38]


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[August W.]

Melatonin will make you sleep like a dead man. A half tablet works just fine for me.

[Donde]

Walking 15-20 mpd isn't enough? Some one shoot me!![emoji38]


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Hey man, if you're not sleeping after a couple days of 20's maybe you need to try 30's or what the heck just go for a FKT:D

[Dogwood]

When on a long hike, even though I may go through an adjustment period for say about a week, as I avoid caffeine once on trail, but will consume it when not hiking, I sleep much much better in the outdoors. I find a cozy sleeping bag, campsite nestled in the trees with the sounds of a gentle wind, babbling brook, waterfall, or coastal shoreline waves to be the BEST sleep aids for me.

I notice electro magnetic fields produced from electronics, say like a mobile or cell phone, tablet, laptop, or the lights from electronics or lights from other artificial sources, and artificial sounds, even the tick tock from a loud wrist watch, interrupt my natural circadian rhythm sleep patterns.

"Sleep-promoting neurons in the brain are stopped by artificial light and so is the nightly release of melatonin - the hormone that encourages sleep. Instead, the light activates neurons that make people more alert."

"Technology has effectively decoupled us from the natural 24-hour day to which our bodies evolved, driving us to go to bed later. And we use caffeine in the morning to rise as early as we ever did, putting the squeeze on sleep." This pattern is broken when I hike as I avoid caffeine and being rigidly tethered to electronics on hikes. All electronics I may have are fully powered down with even batteries typically removed on hikes. Electronics that have a non removable battery are placed away from where I sleep not near my head or near me and fully powered down. At times, I may even remove my altimeter wristwatch. I feel I sleep better without these possible sleep hindrances.

"A representative of Powerwatch, a group that researches the effect of electromagnetic fields on health told the BBC that the evidence against mobile phones is getting stronger and people should take precautions like not making mobile calls in the evening (use a landline) and not sleeping with the mobile phone on the bedside table." I could quote and link to other studies that link electromagnetic fields, such as from electronics, with possible harm to humans, including possibly affecting us on a cellular level.

I've seen two studies that suggested the most sound sleep periods occur when all the power goes out. Many people report they have slept better during power outages. HMMM?

[Dogwood]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/260962.php

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/94715.php

[Dogwood]

I'm also not on any prescription or OTC meds or routinely indulge in other lifestyle habits, that I know of, that might interfere with my sleep. I handle stress extremely well and am generally content about life. After a strong day at work or hiking each night before I go to sleep I recount my blessings with gratitude no matter the turmoil that may surround me, know I am not alone, know that there is peace in the midst of a storm, ask for wisdom from a Higher Power, and know that fear has no hold on me. I'm promised my sleep will be sweet. This comes from One who's promises have always been kept.

[chiefduffy]

A hammock and ear plugs is my solution. I sleep deeply now, after the first night.

[CELTIC BUCK]

a small amount of Bourbon; mellow you out and a book to read

[Moosling]

I don't sleep well ever, not even at home on my Tempur Pedic mattress. My wife sells DoTerra Essential oils, they have some good products that can help you sleep I use one of them I think it contains Levender and some other oils and it really seems to help, just a drop or 2 on the bottom of your feet before bed. It helps keeps my 15 month old Son to sleep aswell.


PM if interested I can give you her information.

[saltysack]

I'm also not on any prescription or OTC meds or routinely indulge in other lifestyle habits, that I know of, that might interfere with my sleep. I handle stress extremely well and am generally content about life. After a strong day at work or hiking each night before I go to sleep I recount my blessings with gratitude no matter the turmoil that may surround me, know I am not alone, know that there is peace in the midst of a storm, ask for wisdom from a Higher Power, and know that fear has no hold on me. I'm promised my sleep will be sweet. This comes from One who's promises have always been kept.

Great info....


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[Slo-go'en]

"A representative of Powerwatch, a group that researches the effect of electromagnetic fields on health told the BBC that the evidence against mobile phones is getting stronger and people should take precautions like not making mobile calls in the evening (use a landline) and not sleeping with the mobile phone on the bedside table." I could quote and link to other studies that link electromagnetic fields, such as from electronics, with possible harm to humans, including possibly affecting us on a cellular level.

Bull. The electromagnetic radiation from common consumer electronics, cell phones included, have no effect on the body. However, the LIGHT from the screen (a type of electromagnetic radiation which does affect the body since we can see it) may affect your sleep.

People might sleep better during power outages (unless it's a week into it during the winter and getting mighty cold) because all the incidental lights are out and all the things which make noise like fans and refrigerators aren't running. Plus they went to bed early since there wasn't any TV to watch half the night.

[OCDave]

...The electromagnetic radiation from common consumer electronics, cell phones included, have no effect on the body...

Slo-go'en,

I believe you are an agent of the secret military-industrial-political complex that secretly enslaves us with electro-magnetic waves beamed at us from video, computer and telephone screens developed from alien technology recovered from area 51 in the SW desert. I believe you are hiding/ denying the truth.

Admit it, we are being enslaved and purposefully robbed of our dreams as part of a global conspiracy.

Disclaimer: The above was intended as sarcasm. I am fully aware that Slo-go'en is not an agent of the afore mentioned military-industrial-political complex. I have not seen him at any of our monthly meetings. Now, please stare into your computer or phone screen for the next 20 minutes. Thank you

[Dogwood]

"The electromagnetic radiation from common consumer electronics, cell phones included, have no effect on the body."

Well, certainly trillions of global dollars, MAJOR segments of industry and National economies, and the way cultures have been designed would be shaken to the core if EMFs proved to have effects on the human body so there is GREAT incentive to keep things, shhh quiet. But really what does it hurt, considering one of the common U.S. alternatives, GREATER DRUG USE, leading to a greater enforcement that popping pills is the answer to everything, when totally powering down electronics is very simple, to possible contribute to sounder sleep?

BTW, if you've even bothered reading this far, as a plant scientist there is strong scientific evidence that not only magnetic fields but also weak electro magnetic fields affect plants. It's a given in plants sciences that indeed magnetic fields do affect plants on a cellular level. Electrochemistry asserts cells, not only plant cells, but also human cells, cell membranes, also including the human body have a charge and have charged electric fields. If we want to assert subjecting human cells to other charges/EMFs has absolutely no affect on our own I find that incomplete science dubious at best.

[Dogwood]

Sorry, for that Saltsack. Didn't intend to hijack your thread. The thread is about getting to sleep/having better sleep.

[Dogwood]

I find it disturbing that when one mentions "sleep aids" we have these pre conditioned responses that it automatically should be defined by legal and illicit drug use. :rolleyes:

[saltysack]

Sorry, for that Saltsack. Didn't intend to hijack your thread. The thread is about getting to sleep/having better sleep.

No prob...I'm all about not taking unnecessary pills! I've tried many things with no luck so just check to see what others do..I don't take anything on a regular basis...plan to bring just a few meds as just in case...



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[Odd Man Out]

Here's what I do. I find that when I crawl into bed, my metabolism is often ramped up from hiking, camp chores, etc... I don't have that "down time" I have before going to bed as I do at home. When it gets dark, I go to bed, which is often much earlier than when I would at home.

So what I do is to lay on top of my sleeping bag (on my back, even though I'm usually a side sleeper) and enjoy the sounds of the woods for a bit while I feel myself unwind. I think laying on top of the bag lets a lot of excess energy (i.e. heat) radiate out. This is one of the most enjoyable parts of the day for me. So instead of worrying about not sleeping, I am enjoying not sleeping. Eventually I start to get chilled, at which point I crawl into my bag (or in my case, under my quilt). Somehow the quilt seems more comfy when you crawl in after letting your metabolism ramp down. The added benefit is you are less likely to overheat in your bag and sweat. In the long run, but "chilling" (literally and figuratively) before crawling into the bag, you keep yourself warmer at night. Sometimes I will fall asleep on top of the bag. If it is a cold night, I eventually wake up cold, but then just crawl into the bag and go back to sleep.

Another question (not sure if this was asked yet) is what time do you get up. It is easy to sleep in when hiking, especially if it is cold and/or wet out. The bag seems very comfy and the outside very non-comfy. But I force myself to get up first thing in the morning, especially since I will want to be going to sleep right after sunset. I will often wake up in the middle of the night (roll off pad, bump cut elbow, aching joints, etc...) but usually will go right back to sleep. But if I wake up and the birds are singing, then I know it is time to get up.

[slbirdnerd]

Salty--I don't like to take drugs/sleep medications either. They knock me out at night, and have me feeling funky all the next day and I can't have that on the trail! However, melatonin supplement works really well for me, sometimes even just half a pill to remind my body that it's time to settle down. If I take a whole one, I find I don't need to take it every day--just seems to get my body on track.

[Sarcasm the elf]

A number of posts about melatonin above speak of "take one pill" or "take half a pill" just a word of caution; Melatonin pills can vary wildly in potency. I've seen identical looking pills that have been 1mg, 3mg, 5mg, and possibly higher. I'd ask someone at the pharmacy/hippy health store for more knowledgeable advice before buying any.

The stuff does work great by the way.

[bangorme]

In the fall, when the night is long, I may go to bed at 7:30. Oddly enough, I just enjoy reading for awhile, then just lying there and thinking for awhile. How often do we get to do that? Then, I am amazed how much longer I end up sleeping than I do at home. Could be 10 hours or more. Of course, I wake up off and on through the night, but it's all OK. Sleeping on the ground on a pad is bound to keep one awake off and on during the night.

[FlyFishNut]

Here is an interesting article about how modernity has changed our sleep habits.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

[Uncle Joe]

smoke a joint (in legal and medical states of course, in order to fulfill the TOA)........

and read..............

Here's why that won't work for me:

1. Smoke the joint.
2. Giggle uncontrollably for about an hour or two.
3. Sleep well past my intended wake-up time.
4. Eat remaining rations regardless of what it means in terms of the next food drop.

[Wülfgang]

I also have trouble sleeping at times in the backcountry. An uncomfortable campsite, forest noises, anxiety about your remoteness or any number of things that are different from home can keep you up.

I take an Ibuprofen PM (1), and read.

[couscous]

+1 on the hammock idea, but a warning that they can be extremely addictive. After long term use you may find yourself sleeping in one off the trail as well.

[Tractor]

Passion Flower Leaf Tea. Tastes OK too.

[saltysack]

Here's why that won't work for me:

1. Smoke the joint.
2. Giggle uncontrollably for about an hour or two.
3. Sleep well past my intended wake-up time.
4. Eat remaining rations regardless of what it means in terms of the next food drop.

Haaaaa...true!! I'd have hard time making any miles!!!


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[rhjanes]

The VIt-I PM is one help. the OTC pain meds now all have a "PM" version. Melatonin is a good choice. My ear plugs of choice are the Silicone type, that can be molded. I made a little holder for them out of two soda-bottle tops, perfect for them. They go in one of my stuff sacks, like if I take my hammock pillow, then in the pillow has the night meds, ear plugs and a cheap sleep mask (over the eyes...for when the full moon is right above my hammock....). If I leave the pillow at home, then the same stuff just goes into the stuff sack with my Top Quilt (or just in with all my first aid...).

[NC Blaster]

Hard work is the best sleeping pill. 20 miles per day is hard work for me.

[sethd513]

My wife and I take herbs and vitamins daily. Passion flower and Valerian root capsules work well for us. It will relax your mind and body and decrease any anxiety you may be experiencing. It's not a guarantee but it helps us. Earplugs sound like a good addition. Personally we stay away from prescription medication.

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[shelb]

I always struggle the first 5-7 nights on the A.T. However, after 5 days of 10-18 mile days, I totally pass out! Unfortunately, that only gives me 4-5 days of good sleeping!

[TwoSpirits]

Like others have said, I have a hard time falling asleep the first two or three nights. I also have a very depressed appetite for about the same time. Then on the 3rd or 4th night, I sleep like a rock -- even better than I ever do at home. I wake up feeling well rested, and usually that's about the same time I feel my appetite kicking in a little more.

So for me, I just try to gut through those first few days, being sure not to try for big miles, and staying super cautious about anything that could be an accident -- because there is nothing like a good sleep-and-calorie deficit to end a hike early.


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