View Full Version : UL Bivy Options
I'm going hiking in the Alps for a few weeks starting in late August. Planning on the Tour du Mont Blanc followed by the Walker's Haute Route to Zermatt. I've decided to go with a pretty relaxed laid back itinerary averaging only 10 miles per day leaving plenty of time for side trips. I've also decided to go hut-to-hut and not plan on camping at all, both due to my uncertainty regarding the weird "wild camping" regulations in Europe and the fact that I don't like "developed" campsites (and they aren't even cheap).
While I do not anticipate needing a full shelter, I am somewhat worried about not carrying any form of shelter at all. I will be carrying a sleeping bag and liner for use in the huts and I will probably take my Neoair as well to form a "virtual frame" for my ULA CDT. The obvious "emergency" shelter seems to be a very lightweight bivy that I could use in case of emergency.
Wanting something UL, of course I looked at the zPacks splash bivy but it isn't entirely water proof and also the 6-8 week leadtime won't work for me. Are there other super light weight bivies that I should be considering? Or (for those familiar with the alps), am I overthinking this and is a shelter really not needed due to the developed facilities? I don't quite know whether to expect a wilderness based on how many huts are all over the place in the alps...
Or I could just take my 20 ounce hexamid along but I don't really want to for a few reasons: (1) don't like adding that much weight; (2) not planning on trekking poles on this trip; (3) don't want to check my bag and would have to with trekking poles & tent stakes.
Any ideas/input appreciated. Thanks.
Look at MLD and TiGoat. Both have non waterproof bivies. In an emergency you could throw some tyvek or polycro over for a short time if needed.
Thanks. The TiGoat Bivy could be an option - the price is attractive.
MuddyWaters
07-27-2015, 19:39
Sol escape bivy
So I went the ultra-cheap route and ordered the SOL Emergency Bivy for $14 from Amazon for my upcoming trip. Not breathable but waterproof. Since I only intend to use this in a true emergency I think it is an acceptable choice any maybe a good item to keep in my day hike pack. 3.8 ounces. I don't want to buy a more expensive bivy without thinking through the longer term use cases, in particular for my PCT hike next year. I like the idea of a bivy/tarp combo for the PCT. The MLD cuben superlight bivy looks great for cowboy camping most of the time.
Just Bill
07-28-2015, 16:03
You might want to check out some of Joey Camps blog on his PCT hike...
He used the Sol Thermal Bivy and a sea to summit liner for the bulk of his hike. He added one of my quilts for the sierra. If you're still thinking of a fast and light trip... maybe worth some experimenting. I think he was past the limit on his insulation personally, but otherwise it's an okay system. The heavy liner is 8 ounces or so and a light quilt about 12. I'd probably err on the side of caution on that system.
Guess it depends what kind of year you get; I suppose a small poncho tarp would give you good backup for rain at little penalty. For as little rain as many PCT hikers report even a cheapie plastic poncho might be enough.
I couldn't make the escape work here in the midwest or east. Never tried it out west though.
You might want to check out some of Joey Camps blog on his PCT hike...
He used the Sol Thermal Bivy and a sea to summit liner for the bulk of his hike. He added one of my quilts for the sierra. If you're still thinking of a fast and light trip... maybe worth some experimenting. I think he was past the limit on his insulation personally, but otherwise it's an okay system. The heavy liner is 8 ounces or so and a light quilt about 12. I'd probably err on the side of caution on that system.
Guess it depends what kind of year you get; I suppose a small poncho tarp would give you good backup for rain at little penalty. For as little rain as many PCT hikers report even a cheapie plastic poncho might be enough.
I couldn't make the escape work here in the midwest or east. Never tried it out west though.
i would have have froze to death with that setup. I can remember several nights barely being able to type my journal in the evening due to cold fingers. And that was early August in Oregon. I have thought about liner and bivy here in the east, may have to try it.
With Camps mid May NOBO start date I can see, based on what JB said, the Sol Thermal Bivy and a 8.7 oz c2c Adaptor CoolMax or Thermolite Reactor liner and some sleep wear money for a shot at a PCT FKT attempt. Switching out the 8.7 oz liner to a SUL JB built quilt for the Sierras while assuming he has other sleep factors such as his diet, sleep wear, CS selection, etc dialed in should have been good.
All Sol bivies are not equal. Heck, the Sol Thermal Bivy is market as a replacement for a 50* sleeping bag. I'd say I agree with their marketing.
Although I see it repeatedly assumed otherwise all the c2c liners aren't equal either. If I'm right about which liner he had, and again having his other sleep system characteristics dialed in, I bet in the Mojave their were more than a few nights when he didn't even need both of those pieces.
I didn't read all his PCT blog but what did he do in northern Cali and Or JB? Just go with one of those sleep pieces?
Back to the regular bat channel. Coffee, can't speak to the WHRZ but with the reg accommodations, about every 5-6 miles on the TMB, food opps more often than that, during your hiking time frame and wit your relaxed itinerary, your Sol Emergency Bivy, based on only what you shared, should be good for emergency situations with your bag and liner. I would have liked that you gave details on your bag and liner though as it could be important in a emergency. Unless, you have strong reasons not shared for hauling your own shelter I wouldn't bring one for the TMB based on what you shared. Doing the TMB as you are is about going really light paring your kit way back. I think your 10 mpd agenda is going to give you oodles of down time so before you head over to EUR think about how you will spend it. Yodeling I assume. Do the side gondola trips to the various summit areas!
I have a zPacks 20 degree regular width, xl length on order that will arrive before I leave. This will also be the bag I will use on the PCT next year. Should weigh 19.3 ounces according to the website. As for a liner, I recently purchased the sea to summit silk "travelers" liner which is meant mostly for use in hostels but could be coupled with the sleeping bag as well. In theory, I should not need the sleeping bag at all since the huts and hostels in towns all provide blankets (they do require a liner). However, I figure that the sleeping bag may be preferable in some cases and I'd like to carry it to consume some of the volume in my pack (CDT) and have it for emergencies if necessary. My pack will likely weigh well under 10 pounds even with a number of luxury items since I wont' have to carry any food except snacks and water is supposed to be plentiful.
I am a somewhat concerned about having way too much time on my hands with the low miles/day plan but it is amazing how many trails exist in the alps, at least based on the maps I have obtained so far. There should be plenty of side trips to do if I feel a need for more hiking. And there are lots of lifts and gondolas everywhere as well. It will be something different and an area that's definitely been on my list to explore for a while so I'm excited about it.
Just Bill
07-29-2015, 09:27
Joey used-
Bivy- http://www.rei.com/product/832336/sol-escape-bivy#tab-specs
His main "sleeping bag"- http://www.rei.com/product/797113/sea-to-summit-reactor-plus-thermolite-compact-liner
His pad was a small neo-air xlite.
That, along with thermal undies, was his main setup.
In the Sierra he added a custom quilt I made- a 50* version of my SUL 45 that weighs 12 oz instead of 14.
He reported nights into the 20's with no issues using all of them in combination. Although not to sure how well he did this as this was his first quilt and he didn't practice much beforehand. But on a record trip or SUL adventure... I'd call a few chilly nights and overall good sleep a success in finding "the line". He did often rise at 4 am and that "trick" let him push his sleep system a bit further too as he didn't attempt to sleep through the coldest periods.
In a lot of ways, Joey's approach is great- he likes to discover/try/feel things out for himself. In some things you want to slap him in the head... in others he's finding unique ways that work for him.
From my end... I agree with the multiple light layers approach and there is a bit of "greater than the sum of it's parts" magic in multiple light layers over one heavy one.
But the STS liners need quite a bit of skeptic review I think. The one Joey used is a 80gsm base fabric, with some 110gsm added in spots.(GSM= Grams per sq meter) That's the "heavy" weight liner.
For some perspective, Patagonia Merino 1 is 120gsm, newer UPF 50 Cap 1 material is roughly 150gsm. So the fabric weight itself isn't even to the level of a basic baselayer material and the claimed ratings aren't really there.
As a system... I do agree that there is something to the VBL discussions. And in general a 5-10* bump from a bivy like the Escape seems very reasonable.
Same thing with a good baselayer and cap. The bivy and thermal base layers could take you to 50* alone, but the added liner likely seals the deal.
But at 9.5 ounces for the reactor plus... I don't think you've done much for yourself. A STS Spark 1 or my custom quilt at 12 ounces is a much better bet and would put an experienced sleeper into the 40 or even mid 30 range. My limited camping/hiking in colorado does give me an appreciation for the need to have more baselayers out west for the cooler evening/morning. Joey touted being able to wake up "dressed" as a bonus which I agree with. If you have a need for the clothing then it makes sense to maximize what you carry in combo with your sleep system. But if you have to carry even one thermal top heavier than you need you have evaporated the slim weight gain of a liner vs. a sleeping bag.
For that matter, I think you'd do better to carry a down jacket over a liner out west if you wanted to go with the clothing/sleeping combo. Maybe even go with a VBL pant over a wind pant at an ounce penalty. Out east, with the warmer almost hot evenings, I think you actually lose weight as you don't need the clothes for anything but sleeping. I used to go the clothing route, but when I simply added up the weight of the clothes I ended up using for sleeping I found that I could cut out most of that weight simply by sizing up my sleeping bag/quilt slightly.
The bulk of any insulation weight is the shell itself. My SUL quilt- gains only 9.5 ounces to go from a conservative 45* to a 25*. My large Cap 4 top alone weighs about 7.5 ounces. A good puffy (not SUL one) easily weighs about that too. If the goal is to spring up and go... and most of us hike in little more than a merino top, shorts/skirt and a windshell then other than perhaps a safety layer there is little need for any spare clothes. And in terms of the odd bad day... if you oversize your windshell you can stuff your sleeping bag into it to make a puffy or if all else fails, simply crawl in your bag and warm up that way.
As I say, out west, with the 30+ drops in temperature and longer window of cool temps... perhaps a balance of clothing makes sense as there is more need to wear it while moving. But off the mountains it doesn't fly IMO, on paper or in practice.
On the list of things to add, I plan to make a liner from actual sleeping gear liner material. This would come in closer to 3-4 oz and likely would provide the same boost as the STS reactor via DWR material providing a moderated VBL effect like the escape bivy. This piece could be used as a liner in warm temps or used as an overbag in cooler temps.
nsherry61
07-29-2015, 11:18
I've spent a fair number of nights cowboy camping in the Pacific NW with an Escape Bivy and a Thermorest Tech Blanket (lightish synthetic quilt). I've really enjoyed this combination. I decided not to use any of the bag liners because I figured that they were not very efficient insulators on a per-pound basis compared to a little more insulation in a bag or quilt.
Most nights I started off sleeping on top of the bivy, with just the quilt and often a light puffy jacket. By early morning, I often, but not always crawled inside the Escape bivy for a little extra warmth. Also, if the dew seems to be getting heavy, I'd climb into the bivy.
This system works very well for me in the warmer 6 months of the year (at freezing, it's a bit cool, but still functional). If I'm expecting rain, I'll pitch my poncho tarp. If I expect freezing temps, I'll take my sleeping bag, but find crawling inside the bivy doesn't help my sleeping bag warmth because the Escape bivy is to small to allow my sleeping bags to puff up to their full loft inside.