View Full Version : New Trail Construction?
Gambit McCrae
08-12-2015, 15:27
At what rate are new shelters, Bridges, Stairways, campsites, kiosks, trailheads, signs, Club owned hostels, general trail maintenance...are decided on and brought to life? Who decides " Today we are going to build a bridge here"...Can anyone do these things? I know clubs do maintenance etc and great folks like bob peoples have been known to throw an amazing shelter up in a weekend but who gives the okay for them to do these things?
****disclaimer to above*****
I am not saying these things are good or bad, I always thank trail crews for their hard work and appreciate anything I come across that has effort and thought put into it. Just wandering what the process is to do these things listed above.
peakbagger
08-12-2015, 15:39
Depends on the location. If its National Scenic trail, the weight of the paperwork has to exceed the weight of the improvement.:)
The maintaining clubs are the conduits to ATC and NPS and everything has to follow fairly extensive rules. Once the paperwork is filled out and approved and source of funding is obtained it can go pretty quick.
Gambit,
Cosmo wrote a couple of excellent blogs on these subjects on Appalachian Trials, but I can't seem to access them right now.
Peakbagger is essentially right. The longer answer to your question: the entire A.T. is a National Scenic Trail. Consequently, there are many layers of approvals and processes that must be completed before a major relocation is undertaken or a new shelter is built.
Every section of the A.T. has at least 3 and sometimes 4 primary managing partners: the National Park Service, the land owning agency if it is different than the National Park Service, the local A.T.-maintaining club, and ATC. In different locations and with different agencies, the role of each can vary significantly.
Major relocations can take decades to complete from inception to completion; the trail building (or the shelter construction) is sometimes the end stage of a long process. The recent Pearisburg area relocation was about 30 years in the works. Minor relocations can go much more quickly.
Things like signs can be a fairly simple matter, or not. For example, where the A.T. passes through national historical parks, negotiations for even a very small sign can take quite a long time.
Thanks for your words of appreciation for the work of volunteers!
If anyone is interested in joining a trail crew this fall, there are lots of opportunities! If you live in a Trail state, there are 31 local trail clubs.
If you don't live in a trail state or want a more intensive (similar to Hard Core) trail-volunteer experience, you have two ATC trail crews to choose from:
Mid-Atlantic Trail crew (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/trail-crews/mid-atlantic-trail-crew) (based at The Scott Farm near Carlisle, PA--check out the drill in the photo!)
Rocky Top Trail crew (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/trail-crews/rocky-top-trail-crew) (based in the Smokies)
More info at: www.appalachiantrail.org/crews (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/crews).
Laurie P.
Lone Wolf
08-12-2015, 16:24
there's a small footbridge that's been out for over 2 years 5 miles north of damascus. doesn't look like it will be replaced any time soon
Another Kevin
08-12-2015, 17:44
In a wilderness area, it gets even more complicated than Laurie describes. The whole idea is that wilderness should appear "untrammelled by Man," and so virtually any improvements are nonconforming. This includes even blazing. Moreover, power tools are banned (the noise level is incompatible with wilderness). If improvements are approved, native materials are required. The lis of requirements goes on and on. Really, the only exceptions that are granted are for resource protection. Blazing is justified because it concentrates hiker impact to a single treadway, rather than forming a whole braided maze of social trails. Treadway improvements control erosion. Bridges protect sensitive riverbanks - and in fact, if specific flora and fauna to be protected cannot be identified, bridges are allowed to deteriorate and not replaced. Of course, this too has to be planned for, because trails need to be rerouted, since the bridged spots are often not safe to ford.. But hiker safety, by itself, is not sufficient to justify a nonconformant use, and I've been on trails where the river crossings are downright scary. (I haven't been to any of the ones that require a pack raft. Those are beyond my current gear, skills and conditioning.)
Incidentally, most of the Hundred Mile Wilderness is Wild Forest by the definitions, and not Wilderness.
Trails in Wilderness areas can be interesting. It's not uncommon to go a quarter-mile without seeing a blaze, even on a marked trail, and a lot of trails are unmarked. Or you may discover that the marks are hatchet blazes that haven't been refreshed in seventy years, so you're looking for the wrinkes in the nearly-healed tree bark. Sometimes following the trail is a matter of tracking the hiker ahead of you - with no guarantee that he wasn't lost. I can name several trails for which I consider bushwhacking skills essential - because you will lose the trail at some point and have to pick it up somewhere farther along.
I enjoy that sort of thing, but I'm also glad that very little of the A-T corridor is in that kind of place.
Nice write-up, Kevin.
I believe the longest distance between blazes on the A.T. may be along the C&O Towpath National Historical Park. There is a stretch of more than a mile between blazes. The footpath is obvious, but hikers can question if they are going the right way or might have missed a turn.
MuddyWaters
08-12-2015, 21:52
Sometimes when there are no blazes in wilderness, there are suspicious drips of white paint on rocks on trail. Coincidence? No.
Theres really no reason for blazes at all on well defined tread, except at intersections. Trails out west arent blazed. Get used to it.
Some think you must be able to see the next blaze from current one. Or have them every 100 ft. Ridiculous.
Another Kevin
08-12-2015, 22:04
Sometimes when there are no blazes in wilderness, there are suspicious drips of white paint on rocks on trail. Coincidence? No.
Theres really no reason for blazes at all on well defined tread, except at intersections. Trails out west arent blazed. Get used to it.
Some think you must be able to see the next blaze from current one. Or have them every 100 ft. Ridiculous.
I said I enjoy the wilderness-style trails! And about a third of my hikes are either bushwhacks or at least follow unmaintained trail or abandoned rights of way. I'm still glad that the A-T is more friendly to beginners. There's a place for that, too.
Sometimes when there are no blazes in wilderness, there are suspicious drips of white paint on rocks on trail. Coincidence? No.
Theres really no reason for blazes at all on well defined tread, except at intersections. Trails out west arent blazed. Get used to it.
Some think you must be able to see the next blaze from current one. Or have them every 100 ft. Ridiculous.
It gets confusing if the distance between blazes is wildly inconsistent. More than a few times I've been on the trail (ie., not lost) but doubted myself because I hadn't seen a blaze in a very long time.
LittleRock
08-13-2015, 08:12
It gets confusing if the distance between blazes is wildly inconsistent. More than a few times I've been on the trail (ie., not lost) but doubted myself because I hadn't seen a blaze in a very long time.
Yes, but there have also been times when I've backtracked after not seeing a white blaze for awhile - and sure enough, I was on the wrong trail.
Gambit,
Cosmo wrote a couple of excellent blogs on these subjects on Appalachian Trials, but I can't seem to access them right now.
Peakbagger is essentially right. The longer answer to your question: the entire A.T. is a National Scenic Trail. Consequently, there are many layers of approvals and processes that must be completed before a major relocation is undertaken or a new shelter is built.
Every section of the A.T. has at least 3 and sometimes 4 primary managing partners: the National Park Service, the land owning agency if it is different than the National Park Service, the local A.T.-maintaining club, and ATC. In different locations and with different agencies, the role of each can vary significantly.
Major relocations can take decades to complete from inception to completion; the trail building (or the shelter construction) is sometimes the end stage of a long process. The recent Pearisburg area relocation was about 30 years in the works. Minor relocations can go much more quickly.
Things like signs can be a fairly simple matter, or not. For example, where the A.T. passes through national historical parks, negotiations for even a very small sign can take quite a long time.
Thanks for your words of appreciation for the work of volunteers!
If anyone is interested in joining a trail crew this fall, there are lots of opportunities! If you live in a Trail state, there are 31 local trail clubs.
If you don't live in a trail state or want a more intensive (similar to Hard Core) trail-volunteer experience, you have two ATC trail crews to choose from:
Mid-Atlantic Trail crew (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/trail-crews/mid-atlantic-trail-crew) (based at The Scott Farm near Carlisle, PA--check out the drill in the photo!)
Rocky Top Trail crew (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/trail-crews/rocky-top-trail-crew) (based in the Smokies)
More info at: www.appalachiantrail.org/crews (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/crews).
Laurie P.
Here (http://appalachiantrials.com/?s=how+the+appalachian+trail+works)is a link...
Also, it depends on what you are doing. Major structures, reroutes, bridges, etc, can have as short as a 2 year timeline from Idea to project start. If Federal funding is involved, then it's more like 5 years to get into the funding cycle, and even then, you have to compete with other projects. Smaller projects, (signs, kiosks at road crossings, etc) are less involved, if the club has a funding source for the materials. As mentioned, federally designated Wilderness areas are a special case, and work within other National Park units (Shennys, Smokies, etc) is also a more complex partnership, so it can take longer than in places with less restrictive missions (National parks manage their resource to be "unimpaired for future generations"), other partners can have a lower/different standard.
Lest you think this is "just bureaucracy in action", understand that it's important to the Trail that the design is appropriate for the area, the impacts to the natural environment is minimal, and work is done to a high standard. This means a lot of partners need to agree that a project is necessary and appropriate before work gets underway. As frustrating as it is (and I've been/am there), the end result is generally better than if one or two people decide to try and do something on their own.
Your local club (Tennessee Eastman?) probably has lots of stories about their work. They've been around a while and maintain some pretty great places on the Trail.
As a (presumed from the sig) Tennesseean, you might also be interested in the Cumberland Trail http://cumberlandtrail.org/website/ or Benton Mackaye Trail http://www.bmta.org/ - both of which (especially the CT) are in earlier stages of development than the A.T. and either of which would welcome additional volunteers. Perhaps near to you are the NC Mountains to Sea Trail http://www.ncmst.org/ and KY's Pine Mountain Trail http://www.pinemountaintrail.com/ and Sheltowee Trace http://www.sheltoweetrace.org/ about which all the same could be said. All groups of course have associated paperwork but if my experience in PA is any guide the ratio of actual work to paperwork is higher on the "other trails" than on the A.T.
I just came upon a new privy close to South Arm Rd near Andover. It was pretty close to the road and not anywhere near a campsite or shelter. Not complaining because I was happy to use it. It just seemed a bit out of place.
Old Hillwalker
07-02-2016, 05:46
I just came upon a new privy close to South Arm Rd near Andover. It was pretty close to the road and not anywhere near a campsite or shelter. Not complaining because I was happy to use it. It just seemed a bit out of place.
I wondered who threw a deuce in my garage.
The idea that someone is driving the bus at all is an illusion. There is no command and control. There are random acts by individuals and by small groups inside the clubs that just decide that they have had enough. We are seeing more and more random acts by hikers themselves acting to fill the void where the "powers that be" have failed. We have the "outlaw blazer", the "stealth campers" and the "hiker underground" who all take action outside the sanctioned clubs and government bodies that are supposed to take care of things. The trail has unlisted shelters and off trail reroutes as well as doctored signs and blazes where the system has failed.
My colleagues and about 100 other volunteers in Mass have their hands firmly on the wheel of the bus. We are definitely not proceeding randomly. To be sure, our Trail stewardship activity is driven in an effort to protect all the resources of the Trail (environmental, physical and social) from degradation and abuse--which may not be on the agenda of some hikers concerned only with their own personal actions and activities. I'm doubtful that the "hiker underground" as much of a clue about what it really takes to keep something as complex and heavily used as the AT functioning as well as it does. I'll publicly extend an invitation to anyone who would like to get a clue to connect with us and see how it's done.
Cosmo
The idea that someone is driving the bus at all is an illusion. There is no command and control. There are random acts by individuals and by small groups inside the clubs that just decide that they have had enough. We are seeing more and more random acts by hikers themselves acting to fill the void where the "powers that be" have failed. We have the "outlaw blazer", the "stealth campers" and the "hiker underground" who all take action outside the sanctioned clubs and government bodies that are supposed to take care of things. The trail has unlisted shelters and off trail reroutes as well as doctored signs and blazes where the system has failed.
Nice write-up, Kevin.
I believe the longest distance between blazes on the A.T. may be along the C&O Towpath National Historical Park. There is a stretch of more than a mile between blazes. The footpath is obvious, but hikers can question if they are going the right way or might have missed a turn.
I met a hiker two weeks ago WAY too upset on not seeing blazes on the C&O portion. Had to chuckle. However, kudos to the trail crew that maintains the trail up to Weverton Cliff. That is a sweet section, had to be a boatload of work.
Traveler
07-05-2016, 08:13
The idea that someone is driving the bus at all is an illusion. There is no command and control. There are random acts by individuals and by small groups inside the clubs that just decide that they have had enough. We are seeing more and more random acts by hikers themselves acting to fill the void where the "powers that be" have failed. We have the "outlaw blazer", the "stealth campers" and the "hiker underground" who all take action outside the sanctioned clubs and government bodies that are supposed to take care of things. The trail has unlisted shelters and off trail reroutes as well as doctored signs and blazes where the system has failed.
Perhaps you should go straighten 'em out and put a plan together that can't fail.
Rain Man
07-05-2016, 12:31
Trails in Wilderness areas can be interesting. It's not uncommon to go a quarter-mile without seeing a blaze, even on a marked trail, and a lot of trails are unmarked.
Doesn't have to be wilderness area. Just returned from 20-miles in the GSMNP this weekend. Not a single blaze. Junctions were signed.
Same for Linville Gorge, but it could be designated wilderness.