View Full Version : Newbie needs etiquette/culture advise
I am headed SOBO on the AT from Deep Gap, NC to Amicalola Falls, GA in May of 2016. That said, and in an effort to learn all I can before hand, I will expose my ignorance and ask what I am sure to many will be the stupidest questions ever... 1) In the LNT vein... is it permissible and/or acceptable to burn trash while on the trail, versus packing it around from shelter to shelter or town to town? Obviously I don't mean anything horribly toxic, but paper wrappers and such, that would burn completely and leave no mess? 2) Is it permissible and/or advised to camp in your tent/hammock just off the beaten path instead of staying at the more crowded shelters/campgrounds/hostels? Since I am going in May, and with the movie coming out this Fall, I anticipate there will be serious foot-traffic, which I am not looking forward to at all, so I would prefer to find my own level place along the way and skip the party if possible.
Gambit McCrae
08-19-2015, 15:17
1)is it permissible and/or acceptable to burn trash while on the trail, versus packing it around from shelter to shelter or town to town?
If someone is using the fire to cook I do nothing with the fire, I don't put sticks on it, I don't burn trash, I let them use it at their own will.
NOW, if I am by myself have a piece of paper next to a fire, ill throw it in. But for the sake of not offending anyone, it is just as easy to put it in my gallon zip lock bag. Which btw for me a gallon zip lock bag should be all the trash I create in a 4 day period. (I've never had to hold onto trash for more then 4 days) - Trash zip lock bag should be hung along with food and kitchen bag.
2) Is it permissible and/or advised to camp in your tent/hammock just off the beaten path instead of staying at the more crowded shelters/campgrounds/hostels?
I am a tenter- not a hanger, so IMO if I were to be setting up my tent outside of official camping spots/ shelters then I would be leaving a footprint(where my tent of wet up, a long with a fire spot if I had one. On the other hand, a lot of people "ghost camp" which is when people get off the beaten path and tent in a never used spot.
gsingjane
08-19-2015, 15:18
I can't really speak to the second question, but as to the first, here is the expert opinion: https://lnt.org/blog/burning-trash
I just don't think you're going to be in a position to build all that many fires, and, frankly, with wise planning your trash will only amount to a few ounces anyway. You can easily get rid of it almost every place you get off the trail and I don't think it's worth it to rely on burning.
Fires aren't permitted in several places on the trail, including where I most commonly hike (CT) and I can't say I've ever missed having the opportunity to burn trash.
Jane in CT
GoldenBear
08-19-2015, 15:29
1) is it permissible and/or acceptable to burn trash while on the trail, versus packing it around from shelter to shelter or town to town?
Obviously I don't mean anything horribly toxic, but paper wrappers and such, that would burn completely and leave no mess?
First of all, any LNT gain you will achieve by burning paper will be negated by having a fire large enough to burn your trash. It would probably be better to not even build a fire in the first place.
But let's say that someone ELSE, who is LNT clueless, builds a large fire. Would LNT principles "permit" burning paper?
The key words you used are "burn completely and leave no mess."
That means you would NOT try to burn plastic or metal -- of which a surprisingly large amount ends up in the fire pits that I pass by. It seems people are unaware of one of two facts about metal & plastic: (1) neither burns in wood fires or (2) they are unsightly trash when left in a fire pit.
Paper that will burn COMPLETELY would be okay. But you'll be surprised how little paper you'll actually bring on The Trail.
And if you mean toilet paper, packing that out is SPECIFICALLY mentioned as an LNT practice. I find it disgusting how often I find used TP right next to The Trail.
2) Is it permissible and/or advised to camp in your tent/hammock just off the beaten path instead of staying at the more crowded shelters/campgrounds/hostels?
How far from The Trail is "just off the beaten path"? Just one tent sitting on pristine ground for even one night will create visible damage that lasts for years. Thus, to not leave a noticeable scar, you'll have to camp sufficiently far from The Trail that your tent can not be seen -- ie, what most people would consider farther than "just off."
Decades ago, wilderness managers HOPED that dispersing campers far from one another would allow the land to recover quickly enough to prevent noticeable damage to any one spot. It didn't work -- the land turned out to be more fragile, and slower to recover, than they expected. Thus, the present best practice is to concentrate campers in one spot, a spot that gets (let's face it) terrible damage but permits the rest of the land to remain (relatively) pristine.
LNT principles
https://lnt.org/learn/7-principles
state that campers should
* Concentrate use on existing trails and campsites.
* Keep campsites small. Focus activity in areas where vegetation is absent.
illabelle
08-19-2015, 15:36
Burning trash:
Fires are nice, but they're a lot of trouble. After hiking several miles, you may find you don't have the energy to gather firewood. Very often the wood you'll find is damp. If the area is well-traveled (like Georgia is) you may have to haul wood from some distance. If you're not camped near water, you'll have to use drinking water to thoroughly extinguish the fire. And like others said, plan well, and the trash will be minimal. But if there is a fire, I don't see an issue with burning some paper.
Camping off-trail:
Not allowed in some areas, though I'm not aware that this is an issue in Georgia. Generally, just try to leave things as good as or better than you found it. The worst of the spring crowd should be ahead of you, so maybe it won't be as bad as you're anticipating.
Don't start fires where there is no existing fire pit. OK to burn paper in fires, but no plastic. And no foil or cans, either.
I haven't set foot on the A.T. yet, but I've done lots of other hiking and camping. Here's my .02 cents from a general perspective...
No need to burn trash, because as has been stated, proper planning really limits the amount of trash left. But further, it's also a question of fire location. If it's an established fire pit, etc., then that's really a personal decision based on what you intend to burn and who else is around that might be affected by the event, i.e., the smell, people cooking, etc. However, fire outside of established areas is bad. Burn sites from campfires create one of the most devastating effects a camper can leave in a local eco-system and on the environment in general. It's not the same as controlled burns for deforestation, etc. And, as has been stated, it's illegal along some parts of the A.T. But more importantly, it's just good practice to limit fires to designated and established locations.
Also, I've seen many more opinions on this site from people who prefer to avoid the shelters, etc., and camp quietly by themselves. To that end, I would suggest trying to find areas that have already seen use for a tent so as to avoid damaging/disrupting a new area of ground. As for hammocks, I hear that sometimes certain types of wide straps are better for the trees longevity (as thinner ropes and cords can do irreparable damage to certain trees) but overall I think you can enjoy hammock camping just about anywhere it's safe and legal to do so (and, thus, avoid the party!) :)
Actually, if you haven't seen these videos yet, they are sort of funny, but specifically based on some LNT practices along the A.T.
Videos: Don't Be That Guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO7V3UayreE&list=PLuekIhaoBuWZ0c4R2jd3RE4PgjDwg9NOp)
EDIT: Wow, that was alot of post while I was typing, lol. :D
Sarcasm the elf
08-19-2015, 15:50
Keep in mind that there is a five-ten mile stretch between neels gap and jarrods gap that has a seasonal bear canister requirement for overnight camping, and I believe this is in effect during May. You can still hike through the are without one, but if you want to camp in that section a bear canister is required.
SteelCut
08-19-2015, 15:50
A lot of hiker trash is non-burnable ... energy bar wrappers, freeze-dried food packaging and their desiccant packets, plastics, etc. are non-burnable and can even emit toxic fumes.
Many hikers incorrectly seem to think of fire rings as trash cans and leave whatever they have as a "favor" to future hikers to provide fuel to burn. The second photo below is where someone left a large amount of non-burnable trash in a trash bag on a fire pit until it was "dispersed" by a bear. Pretty disgusting. (BTW, I did pickup the trash and carry it out to the NOC and where I disposed of it properly).
31737
31738
So please ... pack it in, pack it out. Don't try to burn this crap and don't leave it in the fire pit. You mentioned Muskrat Shelter as part of your trip. I was there a few weeks ago and it too had alot of non-burnable trash and ugly food waste left behind on the fire pit.
BirdBrain
08-19-2015, 15:56
I like campfires. I help build them where they are permitted and have an established pit. There is very little in my pack that is worthy to burn. If you freezer bag cook, chances are you don't have paper trash. I repackage everything into BPA free quality freezer bags. The original packaging is not carried on the trail. The 1st meal becomes the 1st trash bag. As food is consumed, the pack gets lighter and less cramped. If the pack is able the be carried and packed with the trip's food allotment, then there should be little burden carrying the empty ziplocks back out. Don't burn plastic.... anywhere.
Can't comment on question 2.
Actually, that link to the LNT guidelines was a huge help. Thanks for that. I was thinking of only burning maybe TP in a teeny tiny fire, not a bonfire or "camp fire". Only paper, no plastic and I won't even have any cans. Like literally, strike a match on a dead leaf with tp and a gum wrapper until it is gone, then stamp out the ashes. No trace. After reading the posts above, I will camp in the designated places. I certainly don't want to do any damage. Just hate crowds. I read that Feb/Mar was the peak season for people to start their thru hikes, so if we go in May, I was hoping to miss the crowds. I like to see people, so I know if an emergency came up, someone would happen by eventually, but I am not looking to party with a bunch of people. I am looking for serenity.
SteelCut
08-19-2015, 16:16
There are plenty of pre-existing dispersed camp sites on the GA section of the trail. You do not need to stay near a shelter. You will miss the crowds in May but you'd probably want to avoid the time around Memorial Day.
BirdBrain
08-19-2015, 16:21
Again, in general, the amount of stuff that a typical hiker carries that is worthy to burn is tiny at best. It does not represent a burden to carry or an advantage to get rid of. There have been times that I wished I had more paper to help start a fire. I am sure some carry paper in those amounts. I am yet to meet one. Fires and items in the pack really have little to do with each other... unless you are burning stuff that should not be burned.
A lot of hiker trash is non-burnable ... energy bar wrappers, freeze-dried food packaging and their desiccant packets, plastics, etc. are non-burnable and can even emit toxic fumes.
Many hikers incorrectly seem to think of fire rings as trash cans and leave whatever they have as a "favor" to future hikers to provide fuel to burn. The second photo below is where someone left a large amount of non-burnable trash in a trash bag on a fire pit until it was "dispersed" by a bear. Pretty disgusting. (BTW, I did pickup the trash and carry it out to the NOC and where I disposed of it properly).
31737
31738
So please ... pack it in, pack it out. Don't try to burn this crap and don't leave it in the fire pit. You mentioned Muskrat Shelter as part of your trip. I was there a few weeks ago and it too had alot of non-burnable trash and ugly food waste left behind on the fire pit.
That's awful. I would never do that.
Another Kevin
08-19-2015, 21:08
...And if you mean toilet paper, packing that out is SPECIFICALLY mentioned as an LNT practice. I find it disgusting how often I find used TP right next to The Trail....
...Decades ago, wilderness managers HOPED that dispersing campers far from one another would allow the land to recover quickly enough to prevent noticeable damage to any one spot. It didn't work -- the land turned out to be more fragile, and slower to recover, than they expected. Thus, the present best practice is to concentrate campers in one spot, a spot that gets (let's face it) terrible damage but permits the rest of the land to remain (relatively) pristine....
It really depends on conditions. Burying used anitergium (http://laudatortemporisacti.blogspot.com/2006/06/bumf.html) is acceptable practice in many wet areas if you make a proper cathole - 6-8 inches deep - and place it at least 50 yards off a trail. It's still recommended practice by the land management in some places where I hike. Packing it out is always acceptable, and is certainly required in rocky areas, above timberline, and in arid conditions. In the most fragile alpine conditions, a poop tube is the only good answer. (Yecch.) Burying wet wipes, paper coffee filters, food waste and other rubbish is never acceptable. By the way, if snow is available, a snowball is a surprisingly refreshing and effective cleansing agent, and there's never any issue with snow going down the cathole.
Similarly, there are still some places where the human impact is sparse enough that dispersed camping is the accepted practice. I still do most of my hiking where the right place for a campsite is anywhere 200 feet off a trail, 200 feet from any watercourse and a quarter-mile from a road. I've managed to make some pretty low-impact campsites by eating dinner before making camp and moving on before breakfast. One was on dry duff in a hemlock grove where the branches of young trees were just brushing the top of my tent, the sides of the tent just barely fit between rocks and trunks, and the site was well screened by viburnum. It poured rain in the night, and I didn't even wake up. Slept like a log on the soft carpet of needles and twigs. I don't think there are very many places along the A-T like that. Maybe in Maine. A lot of the Trail is in parks that restrict camping to designated sites, or in national forests where the express preference of the management is to concentrate human impact. But: "it depends." Do unto the land as the landowners would have you do.
I don't use the phrase "stealth camping" because it raises the hackles of people who think I'm suggesting something unlawful, rather than understanding "stealth" as Ray Jardine did, to mean "minimal impact". But I suppose that's what I do on a lot of my hikes.
I very seldom make a fire in any case, but never at a dispersed campsite. The only time in the last five years or so that I've made a fire away from an established fire pit was an emergency. I was solo hiking, and misstepped at a ford in 35 degree temperatures. I was soaked and needed fire right away. Incidentally, I knew that was a possibility, and had a fire laid and ready to go on the near bank, so as to have a place to retreat to. I didn't even need to do much work for it, since I could see where another hiker had laid in the wood on the far bank, no doubt for the same reason. I was therefore able to finish the crossing. I restocked the woodpile before continuing.
One was on dry duff in a hemlock grove where the branches of young trees were just brushing the top of my tent, the sides of the tent just barely fit between rocks and trunks, and the site was well screened by viburnum. It poured rain in the night, and I didn't even wake up. Slept like a log on the soft carpet of needles and twigs.
Sometimes I confuse you with Thoreau. http://whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31643
scrabbler
08-19-2015, 22:27
Buying your gear manufactured in China is probably worse than burning a ziplock or two. I dont condone it, just saying....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html
lonehiker
08-20-2015, 00:36
Early on, especially, you will find great campsites that are away from shelters. The south was my favorite portion of the AT for this reason. I don't build fires and would suggest just carrying out your quart zip-lock of garbage. You will be able to dispose of it every 3rd or 4th day anyway. As to fires, I can't speak about starting in May, but in April, every shelter you pass in the evenings will have a fire going.
LNj, you mentioned carrying your trash from shelter to shelter or town to town. Most shelters do not have trash bins, even if they do it means someone has to carry it out anyway. Please do not dispose of trash at the shelters. I have been in privies at some shelters that are full of trash; (left over food boxes, broken gear, etc. This means the stuff that is suppose to compost won't or it will take a tremendous amount of time. I have also found trash under the sleeping platforms on the LT. Neither of them is cool and makes the trail maintenance people work harder as well as gives mice extra nibbles while hikers are away. Please carry it out unless you can burn it completely in a fire pit. That said it is kind of gross to cook in a fire pit where someone has tried but did not failed in burning TP.
Similarly, there are still some places where the human impact is sparse enough that dispersed camping is the accepted practice. I still do most of my hiking where the right place for a campsite is anywhere 200 feet off a trail, 200 feet from any watercourse and a quarter-mile from a road.
Yes, dispersed camping in pristine areas is considered to be an acceptable LNT practices.
Local regulations matter, too. In the areas I hike most, one must camp 200' from trail in certain wilderness areas.
Judging that distance is not always so easy.
One trick is to visualize 4 trailers (of the kind that carry stuff, not the ones you sleep in) lined up end to end -- since they always measure 53' or 48' each. For me that works much better than visualizing 2/3 the lengths of football field.
LNj, you mentioned carrying your trash from shelter to shelter or town to town. Most shelters do not have trash bins, even if they do it means someone has to carry it out anyway. Please do not dispose of trash at the shelters. I have been in privies at some shelters that are full of trash; (left over food boxes, broken gear, etc. This means the stuff that is suppose to compost won't or it will take a tremendous amount of time. I have also found trash under the sleeping platforms on the LT. Neither of them is cool and makes the trail maintenance people work harder as well as gives mice extra nibbles while hikers are away. Please carry it out unless you can burn it completely in a fire pit. That said it is kind of gross to cook in a fire pit where someone has tried but did not failed in burning TP.
Well this is just a spotlight shone on my naivety, as I haven't done this before, so I don't know what to expect at a shelter. I promise not to leave a mess or trash ANYWHERE. I just want to know the right way to dispose of trash is all. So the "town to town" comment was a correct one then? Ziploc freezer bag all trash and dispose of it in towns along the way. Cathole and burying TP is ok as long as the cathole is deep enough (6 to 8 inches deep). Do I understand this correctly? I just don't want to carry around used Tp, even in a Ziploc if I don't absolutely HAVE TO.
ChrisJackson
08-20-2015, 11:12
Packing out TP really isn't a big deal. Just wrap it with a wipe, drop your wipe in your trash bag...that's it.
Ok. Also trying to keep an eye on the weight I'm packing too. I fear I will end up with a 40# pack and I really don't want that. We shall see. The shakedown hike will be the eye opener for me I'm sure.
Slo-go'en
08-20-2015, 16:35
Anywhere there is a spot to set up a tent along the trail in Georgia, 100's of people have already done so. Considering the number of hikers who pass through GA in March and April these days, there is little choice but to do so.
However, there are advantages to tenting at shelter sites (but never IN a shelter). These would be: easy access to water, a picnic table to sit and cook at and a privy to do your business in (which may or may not be overflowing with the previous 2000 hikers business). It's also the location hikers naturally gravitate to and socialize.
Sarcasm the elf
08-20-2015, 19:49
Ok. Also trying to keep an eye on the weight I'm packing too. I fear I will end up with a 40# pack and I really don't want that. We shall see. The shakedown hike will be the eye opener for me I'm sure.
It will be, but that's part of the normal learning process, don't worry about it. I personally hugely appreciate that you are even here asking questions beforehand. That puts you ahead of the vast majority of new hikers.
LittleRock
08-21-2015, 09:07
Well this is just a spotlight shone on my naivety, as I haven't done this before, so I don't know what to expect at a shelter. I promise not to leave a mess or trash ANYWHERE. I just want to know the right way to dispose of trash is all. So the "town to town" comment was a correct one then? Ziploc freezer bag all trash and dispose of it in towns along the way. Cathole and burying TP is ok as long as the cathole is deep enough (6 to 8 inches deep). Do I understand this correctly? I just don't want to carry around used Tp, even in a Ziploc if I don't absolutely HAVE TO.
I remember there being several highway intersections with trash cans in GA. If you take advantage of these, you shouldn't ever have to carry more than a couple days worth of trash, and you shouldn't have to burn trash or leave the trail to dispose of it.
It's impressive how little trash one generates on a three or four day hike. If you do it right.
A notable exception I recall: carrying a pizza box from RPH shelter several miles to the next major road crossing. D'oh.
I remember there being several highway intersections with trash cans in GA. If you take advantage of these, you shouldn't ever have to carry more than a couple days worth of trash, and you shouldn't have to burn trash or leave the trail to dispose of it.
Oh that's the perfect answer I was looking for. Thank you. There is also the fact that trash will have to hung up with food, so less is better and getting rid of it altogether often is better still.
AtWokman
08-22-2015, 14:25
I carry a steel wok...its my fire pit. I burn whatever I want. That being said, I don't want other people putting trash in my wok. As far as camping right off the trail... Just be nice and clean.
Berserker
08-25-2015, 12:06
1) In the LNT vein... is it permissible and/or acceptable to burn trash while on the trail, versus packing it around from shelter to shelter or town to town? Obviously I don't mean anything horribly toxic, but paper wrappers and such, that would burn completely and leave no mess?
Burning paper is fine...all other stuff (plastic, foil, etc.) should be packed out. As another poster stated there are a few trash cans along the way a road crossings, so you will have a chance to get rid of your trash in a couple of spots.
2) Is it permissible and/or advised to camp in your tent/hammock just off the beaten path instead of staying at the more crowded shelters/campgrounds/hostels? Since I am going in May, and with the movie coming out this Fall, I anticipate there will be serious foot-traffic, which I am not looking forward to at all, so I would prefer to find my own level place along the way and skip the party if possible.
Unless otherwise indicated you can camp where ever you want. That being said it should be noted that established spots are significantly more convenient. Usually they are near water, have an established fire pit and are already "setup" for camping. By "setup" I mean that there's usually 1 or more spots to set up a tent or hammock, and the spot is already groomed. If you just step off the trail to camp you're more than likely going to be in thick brush (and possibly poison ivy in GA), which isn't really setup good for camping. If you're the type that just stops at dark, sets up, eats and goes right to sleep than this may work for you. If you want actually camp some though I think you'll find established spots are much more comfortable.
Casey & Gina
08-27-2015, 23:20
Buying your gear manufactured in China is probably worse than burning a ziplock or two. I dont condone it, just saying....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html
Except that one is directly your responsibility and negatively impacts the AT and your health, while the other is somebody else's decision to negatively impact China. Yes you are still indirectly responsible as a consumer and have the option to make better choices, but it is A> worse to be directly and deliberately responsible rather than possibly inderectly so, B> worse to cause direct damage to a pristine environment you appreciate, and C> think that because 1 wrong exists in the world, another lesser wrong is acceptable. I know you were not implying C for yourself, but those who make such choices with this reasoning do. I know what my choice will be!
permagrin
09-05-2015, 22:47
I just hiked from GA to HF and only 2x had the opportunity to build more than 2 fires. Folks got to the shelters before me, or it had just rained, or I was just toooo tired to go scouting for wood that I knew the first 3000 people had burned anyway. I put all my trash in a quart sized (FREEZER) bag and emptied it at whatever road crossing, store, hostel I found. Never had to burn any trash. As for sleeping just off the beaten path, my own idea of ettiquette would be to camp a 100 or so feet ( ya ya LNT prolly sez 200 feet) from the trail. I've run into a boyscout troop and some of the scouts had pitched their tents right on the blue blazed trail. That is ridiculous, and anyone knows better, hiker, camper, or whutever.
Another Kevin
09-06-2015, 10:48
As for sleeping just off the beaten path, my own idea of ettiquette would be to camp a 100 or so feet ( ya ya LNT prolly sez 200 feet) from the trail.
That's my preference, too, for most places.
There are a handful of things that bring me to established campsites and shelters.
(1) In some places they're sparsely enough used not to have much of a critter problem. (This does NOT happen on the A-T).
(2) The law says so. In most of the A-T corridor in New York, camping is at designated sites only.
(3) Boreal forest, where any motion off trail is a swim through spruce hell, and there are no flat spots big enough to pitch a tarp or hang a hammock.
(4) Violent weather. I can remember one night two years ago arriving at a shelter about 30 seconds ahead of a very intense series of thunderstorms. I was hearing widowmakers crashing down outside half the night.
The last couple of times I used a shelter without one of these reasons, there was a problem. In one case, I had hurt my knee and couldn't comfortably kneel down to crawl into my tent. In the other, I was just lazy and wound up in the middle of the night having a fistfight with a raccoon that wanted my pack. (I don't know why - the pack had nothing remotely food-like. But the little thief got my toilet paper!)
The last time I had a fire that someone else didn't build was the evening that I fell into a stream in 35 degree weather.
I carry a Ziploc for my own trash. Everywhere I hike is wet enough that TP in a properly dug cathole is not a problem. The wet wipe that I use to clean strategic areas afterward goes in the trash bag. The Ziploc goes in the bear bag at night.
On short trips I carry a kitchen trash bag, and if it starts getting full, lash it outside the pack. (At night, I haul it up on the rope with the bear bag.) Some trips it comes out quite full indeed. And sometimes the haul is interesting. I remember trashing out one illegal campsite where the rubbish included a few 24 oz beer cans, a half-gallon bottle that had held sweet cider, a black rubber glove, a pink acrylic beanie, and a pair of blue plaid cotton boxer shorts. I don't think I want to know.
gregpphoto
09-06-2015, 20:36
Well this is just a spotlight shone on my naivety, as I haven't done this before, so I don't know what to expect at a shelter. I promise not to leave a mess or trash ANYWHERE. I just want to know the right way to dispose of trash is all. So the "town to town" comment was a correct one then? Ziploc freezer bag all trash and dispose of it in towns along the way. Cathole and burying TP is ok as long as the cathole is deep enough (6 to 8 inches deep). Do I understand this correctly? I just don't want to carry around used Tp, even in a Ziploc if I don't absolutely HAVE TO.
First off, you should be commended for taking proactive measures, and as you said "exposing your ignorance." If more people had your open minded attitude we'd be ok. As for your some of your questions. Burying TP, even in moist climates, is still not the best option, because to make sure the TP doesnt come back up, youre gonna bury it deeper, but that slows down the rate at which your poop pathogens break down from exposure to UV light. However, I've done it myself, but definitely only in a moist climate. Head west of the 100th meridian and I pack it out, always.
Fun story, I ran out of TP here at home for about three weeks and was using paper towels, then tissues, then finally junk mail to wipe, and then "packed it out" in the plastic bags I use to clean the cat's litter box.
Another Kevin
09-06-2015, 22:11
Oh, on the TP topic: When there's enough snow about, I use a snowball. It is considerably less unpleasant than it sounds, and cleans surprisingly effectively. And of course it's practically the ultimate in LNT, since it'll melt.
when you see the crap strewn around at shelters you will soon realize that burning / not burning is really a minor issue