Has anyone here attempted a SOBO starting after Labor Day?

[DSettahr]

Has anyone here attempted (or successfully completed) a SOBO hike starting after Labor Day? I am considering beginning a thru hike next year (2016) starting immediately after Labor Day. I am curious to hear from others who've had similar experiences, and see what suggestions/recommendations they may have- especially what they learned/what they would do differently if they were to do it again.

I understand that this is an ambitious itinerary, however, I've also got a lot of experience in the northeastern mountains in Fall and Winter, and feel strongly that I've got pretty realistic expectations of the conditions that I can expect to face.

Also, is there a good resource of what conditions one can expect to encounter in the Smokies at different times of year? It's not so much that I am worried about what I will encounter there, and more that I just want to make sure that I am sufficiently prepared when I get there.

[rafe]

Read, at the very least, the Barefoot Sisters Southbound journal. SOBO that late is mildly insane. If normal thru-hiking odds are 10%, I'd give that plan odds of about 0.1%.

[DSettahr]

Read, at the very least, the Barefoot Sisters Southbound journal. SOBO that late is mildly insane. If normal thru-hiking odds are 10%, I'd give that plan odds of about 0.1%.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely check it out.

[fiddlehead]

Did it in 2001/2002 starting Oct 14.
Once you get past the whites, you can breathe a bit of a relief.
We went fast.
I believe our first big snow was on our last day in the whites.
I'll attach a pic from Mooselauke. (or coming up from Kinsman)

Another problem, besides the weather and long nights, is finding places open.
Many restaurants, hotels, hostels, and even some state parks and campgrounds close for the winter.

You can read about our trip here:
http://triplecrownoneyear.tripod.com/index.htm

we had support by the way.
Made it a lot easier.

31774

[fiddlehead]

Sorry about that tiny picture.
Here's a bigger one: (I think)
This was November 6th of that year and almost to Glencliff and the end of the whites.

31775

[DSettahr]

Thanks. I took a look at your website, but couldn't really find any content- it looks like much of it is inaccessible at present?

Based on past hiking experience, I am pretty confident that I will be able to start out with a solid 18-20 mile per day pace through the (relatively) flatter Maine sections immediately. I agree that getting past the Whites expediently is a solid goal. Beyond that point, my only major concern is the Smokies (and perhaps the Mt. Rogers area).

I ordered the Barefoot Sisters book and am looking forward to reading it.

[DSettahr]

It is about 400 miles from Katahdin to the southern end of the Whites. If I can average 15 miles a day through that entire section, I should be able to be south of the whites in about 28 days. I'm not sure of my exact start date yet, but I figure it will be ASAP after Labor Day.

Past experience has shown that weather begins to change pretty quickly (and drastically) at higher elevations in the northeastern mountains post Columbus Day, which is 35 days after Labor Day in 2016. I think that setting the goal of exiting the Whites by Columbus Day is a reasonable one, as this doesn't force me to stick to an overly ambitious itinerary, and still gives me some wiggle room if I am forced to modify my itinerary due to foul weather in the Whites.

[bigcranky]

I can't help at all with the New England part, but the Smokies and Mt Rogers are local. You'd be arriving when, maybe late November? Early December? I'm trying to do the math at an 18-20mpd pace and failing :) We've done a fair amount of hiking in early winter in both places.

No problem - weather is usually decent with cold nights and cool days. Be prepared for mid teens at night and 30s to 50s during the day. The biggest issue is ice, not snow, especially early in the winter. The Smokies can have some snow, and it'll be colder at night, plus it'll be very windy in both places. Given how early winter storms go around here, I'd want to have some sort of traction device by early November -- we get a lot of freezing rain.

Sounds like you're pretty well set up for this hike. Good luck.

[illabelle]

I can't help at all with the New England part, but the Smokies and Mt Rogers are local. You'd be arriving when, maybe late November? Early December? I'm trying to do the math at an 18-20mpd pace and failing :) We've done a fair amount of hiking in early winter in both places.

No problem - weather is usually decent with cold nights and cool days. Be prepared for mid teens at night and 30s to 50s during the day. The biggest issue is ice, not snow, especially early in the winter. The Smokies can have some snow, and it'll be colder at night, plus it'll be very windy in both places. Given how early winter storms go around here, I'd want to have some sort of traction device by early November -- we get a lot of freezing rain.

Sounds like you're pretty well set up for this hike. Good luck.

What bigcranky describes is "typical" weather. Be prepared to bail off the trail for the unusual weather event. Hurricane/Superstorm Sandy went through the Smokies in late October, dumped record snowfall, and caught several southbound thru-hikers off guard. One was rescued by helicopter. Others bypassed the Park and came back later. Many had a very difficult time.

[rafe]

Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer. Day hikes or simple overnights are one thing, but long-distance treks in winter are something else again. Just finding the trail is a challenge.

Days are short, nights are long Pack weight is way up from where it might be in summer. You need snowshoes, crampons, probably an ice axe as well. Access roads will be snowed in, so resupply will be that much more difficult.

Yes of course you'll need to fly through Maine and New Hampshire but I wouldn't expect a picnic after that. In the Barefoot Sisters journal, the nastiest winter encounter is at Mt. Rogers in southern Virginia.

A fit, experienced and cocky young woman died trying to hike up and over Mt. Madison last winter. It was all over the news and heavily debated on all the New England hiking forums.

[Venchka]

rafe beat me to most of this, might not hurt to reiterate.
In addition to seasonal closure of many services near the trail, you may also find road closures preventing you from getting a shuttle or hitching into a town for resupply.
I have family living in Boone, NC, elevation ~3,400 feet. The tourist industry calls it the High Country for good reason. The higher ridges where the AT runs along the NC-TN border are almost twice as high as Boone at 6,000 feet +. My grandkids have had snow days as early as Halloween. Temperatures below ZERO° F are not uncommon in the High Country.
It will be an adventure. Ice. Snow. The collapse of the green tunnel blocking the trail. Blown down trees blocking the trail. Melting snow for water. Will a cat food stove melt snow? Will a propane canister stove melt snow reliably? White gas stoves will melt snow reliably. Short days. Long nights. Fun stuff.
Will customary lightweight gear work after September? In my personal opinion, the answer is, "NO!" A sub-one pound quilt, a backpack that won't handle 30+ pounds and a flimsy foam pad to sleep on could get you hurt. The so called "puffy" jackets that pass for cold weather insulation for 3 season use won't cut the mustard on a high windswept ridge in November & December.
Be prepared. Be safe. Have fun!

Wayne

[Slo-go'en]

It all depends on the weather. If it's a reasonably dry and warm fall, you have a chance. If it's not, good luck.

[rafe]

Tipi Walter is, at least on this site, the undisputed master of winter trekking and survival skills. Bag-nights, he calls 'em.

[DSettahr]

Yes- I'm pretty confident when I say that I don't think I have any misconceptions about the conditions I am likely to face. My previous achievements include successfully completing the Winter 46 in the Adirondacks (climbing all 46 peaks above 4,000 feet in elevation in winter), as well as section hiking the full length of the 122 mile Northville Placid Trail in the Adirondacks during winter. My experience (600+ nights in the backcountry in my life, averaging 60-70 nights a year) includes numerous winter overnights, with many trips in temperatures as low as -10 degrees overnight (and a few trips with temperatures reaching -20 and -30). I am fully aware of the subtleties of cold weather camping (canister stoves vs. white gas, melting snow for water, timing issues with day length, etc.) have not only done it myself many times, but also instructed others in those same subtleties online, as well as having worked as a wilderness trip leader guiding overnight trips in the backcountry in all 4 seasons in the northeast.

I understand that I haven't chosen the easiest itinerary, but I also think that my experience sets me up pretty well to at least give it a solid attempt. If I can move at a reasonably solid pace, which I am sure I can do, then barring any major calamities, I don't expect the trail to throw anything at me that I haven't experienced before. At the very, very least, I know that I can do it safely, and that I have the experience and knowledge to know when to call it quits if that becomes necessary.

[Venchka]

You should have started with your resume.
Go for it!

Wayne

[DSettahr]

But I do appreciate the words of caution- they mirror more or less exactly what I would tell someone else if I saw a post like this but was unfamiliar with the author's experience level. :)

[rafe]

OK, you have extensive winter backpacking experience, that's a good start. Now couple that with the requirement of a through-hike, which is to say, making considerable miles per day, long-term, and issues of resupply.

Days and nights on end. It's said that a thru-hike is just a long string of sections, but in winter you'll be working that much harder to reach town in between those sections -- and losing even more precious daylight in the process.

Theoretically you could stretch your hike for a year and do as little as six miles per day. But I assume you wish to move faster than that.

As Venchka points out -- trail conditions will be all over the map, and overgrown parts of the trail may become impassable after heavy snow or ice-rain. Tipi has lots of photos of that.

It gets really interesting when snow obscures the blazes.

[colorado_rob]

Not quite sure why folks confuse fall and late fall conditions with full on winter conditions. Excellent chance you'll have near perfect weather conditions for 80% of your hike. Sure, you could have heavy early snows and, well, oh well! If this happens you simply reevaluate. But fine chance this won't happen and it will only be towards the end of your hike that you will likely have to deal with a lot of snow. the comment below: "Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer" is just plain false, and even mostly not applicable because if you move out, very little of your hike will even be in "winter".


Sure, tons of snow slow you down, maybe even chase you off the trail, but think of all the advantages: Cooler weather means you can hike faster, zero bugs, less rain, no crowds (after leaf-peeping season) meaning wide open shelters. Once far south, even the bear "issues" go away.


My own personal multi-day pack only increase by about 4 pounds for late fall/early winter vs. summer. Basically a tougher tent (+1 pound), warmer bag (+1 pound) a heavier insulation layer (+ 1/2 pound), warmer pants (+ 1/2 pound) and better gloves and hat. Might need some microspikes for late in your hike too (another pound).


The big disadvantage of this will of course be your lack of good daylight, but you will still have tons at the start of your hike, and heading south, the shorter days later on will be less short being further south, if you follow. Go for it!!!! I'm thinking of something similar for a late SOBO PCT attempt next year.

Go for it! Exciting to hear about this alternate style thru attempt.

[DSettahr]

I've not done a thru hike of the likes of the AT specifically, but I do also have 6 seasons of experience as a backcountry ranger, often with only 1 or 2 chances to resupply each week over the course of a season. "Making considerable miles per day, long term" has been my modus operandi for the past few years.

My thru hike will begin right after a 7th season as a ranger, and so I expect to be in excellent hiking shape. Past experience has shown that I can typically set a steady 20 mile a day pace with a 40 pound pack over generally level terrain after a season of work in the backcountry. I do understand that food (carrying/eating enough calories) will be an issue at this level of exertion.

I also own mountaineering showshoes, crampons, and an ice ax, and have used them extensively. I also have extensive experience in route finding, including following trails obscured by heavy snow loads.

Granted, none of this experience is in winter in the south, but I still think I've got a pretty reasonable and realistic expectation of what I am getting myself into. Given my experience level and my willingness to spend the next year planning and preparing, I think I will be about as well prepared for an endeavor such as this as anyone possibly could be.

If need be, the extensive trail network Smokies in particular gives me the option of following a low-land alternate route that avoids the higher elevations along the ridge line through the park. I'm not all opposed to doing this if the conditions dictate.


Not quite sure why folks confuse fall and late fall conditions with full on winter conditions. Excellent chance you'll have near perfect weather conditions for 80% of your hike. Sure, you could have heavy early snows and, well, oh well! If this happens you simply reevaluate. But fine chance this won't happen and it will only be towards the end of your hike that you will likely have to deal with a lot of snow. the comment below: "Everything about winter hiking is more difficult than summer" is just plain false, and even mostly not applicable because if you move out, very little of your hike will even be in "winter".

I think the cautions are warranted- as I stated above, I would say similar things to someone if I wasn't familiar with their experience level. It is better to err on the side of caution in these instances.

I will say, though, that no matter how dire, every warning I've read about the Smokies in winter really doesn't sound as bad as the Adirondacks in winter. That's not to say that I am taking the prospect of winter conditions in the Smokies lightly- just that I do feel pretty confident that I will be as well prepared to face it as anyone possibly could be.

I am also considering the possibility of bribing a friend to do the Smokies with me so that I at least wouldn't be solo for that section.

[rhjanes]

the Barefoot Sisters (IIRC), hit a blizzard in the Smokys. Their write up on that.....well......after the fact they realized how life-threating it really was. Their planned Yo-Yo, then was changed to stay around Atlanta and not start northbound until weather improved.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

Have a look at the various states' deer hunting seasons and don't overlook the various seasons for various weapons (bow, muzzle-loader (aka black powder), regular gun season, etc). Be prepared with an adequate number of square inches of blaze orange visible from any angle. I have nothing against deer hunting/deer hunters, but when sharing the mountains with them, I come prepared, and in the exact fashion they're expecting.

AO

[DSettahr]

Have a look at the various states' deer hunting seasons and don't overlook the various seasons for various weapons (bow, muzzle-loader (aka black powder), regular gun season, etc). Be prepared with an adequate number of square inches of blaze orange visible from any angle. I have nothing against deer hunting/deer hunters, but when sharing the mountains with them, I come prepared, and in the exact fashion they're expecting.

That is a good point. Probably I will carry something that is blaze orange with me at all times anyways.

[rafe]

I'm not sure how you can leave Katahdin on Labor day, hike toward Springer, and never see winter. That takes some speed and skill that few mortals possess.

Assuming you're fast enough to make it out New England without seeing much of the fluffy stuff, you'll probably be hitting the high mountains of the south by December or January.

And yes, almost everything is tougher. You're far more heavily clothed, wearing heavy boots. You're carrying multiple types of foot traction devices and needing to switch between them from time to time. Each footstep requires more energy. I've done a few winter hikes in the White Mtns. It can be great fun, or it can kill you.

It's true, some things are easier -- no bugs, no mud. Good visibility. I'm not sure you'd get to glissade much on the AT. Maybe up on Roan highlands, or Max Patch?

I can't claim any experience with long winter treks, and only brief overnights.

DSettahr, the odds are still long. If you can find him there's a WB user from long ago, I think his username was Wolf-2300 or something like that. A gnarly ex-drill sargeant or something like that. He seemed to know a few things about long, hard winter treks.

[tdoczi]

I'm not sure how you can leave Katahdin on Labor day, hike toward Springer, and never see winter.

i guess it depends on what you mean by winter and just how bad a given, actual winter is. i know not from first hand experience, but just from reading the experiences of others, etc, it seems entirely possible that one could traverse the smokies in early december and not see a lick of snow. in fact, i have the distinct (again, perhaps wrong) impression that such a scenario is more likely than getting there and finding the trail buried under 6 feet of snow. i think north of mt greylock is the only part of the AT where extreme winter weather is an unescapable fact of life. assuming he makes it out of the whites on roughly the schedule he hopes, i'd wonder if there wasnt a greater chance of still hitting serious winter weather in southern vermont a couple weeks later than hitting it in the smokies a couple months later. NOBOs who start in february probably have a better chance of hitting problematic snow accumulations in the smokies than someone who is hiking there in november or december.

anyone who knows this firsthand care to back me up (or tell me i'm totally off)?

[DSettahr]

I can't help at all with the New England part, but the Smokies and Mt Rogers are local. You'd be arriving when, maybe late November? Early December? I'm trying to do the math at an 18-20mpd pace and failing :) We've done a fair amount of hiking in early winter in both places.

I am thinking that I will probably plan for 15+ miles a day on average over the course of the entire trail. I fully anticipate plenty of 18-20 mile days on the easier stretches, but planning for this pace overall gives me a fair amount of wiggle room and allows me to proceed more slowly/cautiously as needed should conditions dictate along the way.

At that pace, I am thinking that I will probably be to the Smokies by mid to late December. Average total snowfall at high elevations in the Smokies is 8 inches for the month of December. So, barring any major incidents (another super storm), I can certainly expect to encounter snow, but it shouldn't be enough to significantly slow me down.

Obviously, you can never be guaranteed to encounter "average conditions," and conditions can change significantly even in the (relatively) short amount of time it takes to traverse GSMP. I am planing to carry extra gear in preparation for winter conditions regardless of what conditions exist when I reach the park, just in case (extra fuel, extra layers, possibly snowshoes, etc.). I am also thinking that it will probably be best to plan to spend a full week traversing the Smokies, averaging a little bit more than 10 miles per day for that stretch. This seems reasonable to me, accounting for not only the possibility of adverse conditions, but also the weight of the extra gear that I will be carrying just in case. I'll have to think about it some more and decide more precisely what is a good balance between being reasonably prepared and reasonably unburdened for that stretch specifically.

[1azarus]

Every year there are plenty of slow SOBOS who finish in winter conditions. You will just be overtaking them. Sounds like a great adventure to me. By the way, if there is a snowflake in the air the SNP is likely to be closed to car traffic -- but walking through is just fine. Good luck to you and tell us your story.

[DSettahr]

According to the GSMNP website, January, February, and March all see significantly more snow in the Smokies than December: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/weather.htm

Again, these are typical conditions. It is worth being prepared for anything. I think that as long as I get through the Smokies by the end of December, I've got decent odds of avoiding significant amounts of snow.

I would suggest that I actually need not worry about snow as much as I should be concerned about rain in slightly warmer temperatures. Cold rain in sub-50 degree weather can lead to heat loss far more quickly than snow in 20 degree weather can. Again, if I push for 18-20 mile days but plan for 15 miles per day overall, I've got wiggle room if I need to take a zero to avoid a particularly nasty day or quit earlier in the afternoon so that I can warm up and dry out.

[Another Kevin]

I know you have the experience for it because I've seen you enough on VFTT. (I lurk there from time to time. I've never tried to get an account.) I'm assuming you also have the experience of what it's like to do it day after day. What I always worry about in winter is the gradual accumulation of moisture in my geese. Imperceptible condensation adds up over time.

Moosilauke in late October would worry me. If there's a sustained cold snap, Beaver Brook will be an icy mess with all the mist freezing on everything. It's probably manageable if you have support to get your ice axe and crampons to you, but I might want a belay and a helmet. That said, I'm sure that I'm a less confident climber than you are. I would be seriously scared on those insane slabby stretches in the ADK's in winter, too!

Just to calibrate, so you know the (low) skill level I'm speaking from, I was pretty mellow with doing Blackhead in the Catskills in a 4-6 foot snowpack, but the trail was well broken out. My hiking buddies were switching to crampons once that long ridge on the west side broke clear of the trees. My mountaineering snowshoes were eating it up, so I just kept 'em on. I've done the 4 required winter peaks in the Cats, plus a couple more, plus Moosilauke in January forty years ago, but that hardly makes me a winter mountaineer.

[Malto]

If I were to hike the AT as a single thru hike I would start in mid September SOBO. I believe the leaves change goes south at about 30miles per day and I would attempt to follow peak foliage as long as possible.

here is a journal for Likely the latest thruhiker to start SOBO and still finish by year's end. His start date was Oct. 17 but he also had many thousands of miles hiking in the year or so before undertaking this leg of his 12 long walks. http://www.thehikinglife.com/2012/10/at-day-1-the-last-thru-hiker/

[DSettahr]

I know you have the experience for it because I've seen you enough on VFTT. (I lurk there from time to time. I've never tried to get an account.) I'm assuming you also have the experience of what it's like to do it day after day. What I always worry about in winter is the gradual accumulation of moisture in my geese. Imperceptible condensation adds up over time.

Moosilauke in late October would worry me. If there's a sustained cold snap, Beaver Brook will be an icy mess with all the mist freezing on everything. It's probably manageable if you have support to get your ice axe and crampons to you, but I might want a belay and a helmet. That said, I'm sure that I'm a less confident climber than you are. I would be seriously scared on those insane slabby stretches in the ADK's in winter, too!

Just to calibrate, so you know the (low) skill level I'm speaking from, I was pretty mellow with doing Blackhead in the Catskills in a 4-6 foot snowpack, but the trail was well broken out. My hiking buddies were switching to crampons once that long ridge on the west side broke clear of the trees. My mountaineering snowshoes were eating it up, so I just kept 'em on. I've done the 4 required winter peaks in the Cats, plus a couple more, plus Moosilauke in January forty years ago, but that hardly makes me a winter mountaineer.

Thanks.

I do have experience with moisture build up in sleeping bags. I'm not too worried about it over the earlier stretches of my trip, but it could be a concern later on if I do experience a sustained cold snap. I've not made the choice between down vs. synthetic yet. I do own a vapor barrier liner that may be worth carrying on the later half of the trail. I will probably use a tarp as my main shelter, but am also considering carrying a bivy sack for added protection from the elements.

I'll keep the warning about Moosilauke in mind as well. As I stated in an earlier post, I hope to be past the Whites by Columbus Day, and I'm not too worried about sustained cold weather temperatures prior to then. I do have a friend who lives just over the border in VT from there, so there is a local resource available if needed.

[DSettahr]

If I were to hike the AT as a single thru hike I would start in mid September SOBO. I believe the leaves change goes south at about 30miles per day and I would attempt to follow peak foliage as long as possible.

here is a journal for Likely the latest thruhiker to start SOBO and still finish by year's end. His start date was Oct. 17 but he also had many thousands of miles hiking in the year or so before undertaking this leg of his 12 long walks. http://www.thehikinglife.com/2012/10/at-day-1-the-last-thru-hiker/

Thanks, this is a good resource that I will definitely look into. He moved a lot faster than I plan to, but timing wise, it sounds like he was going through the Smokies pretty close to the same time I (hopefully) will be.

[Slo-go'en]

As I said earlier, it all depends on the weather and that's getting hard to predict. It seems in general winter is getting shorter, but more intense. Last year winter didn't really kick in up here in the Whites until January and then we had a brutal 3 months. But it was a wet fall, lots of cold rain but not much snow. The cold rain is the worst. Much of the snow last year tracked farther south, with much of it in the mid Atlantic states. This winter with the Godzilla El Nino, hard to say what we'll get and next year? Who knows?

I'd guess 15 mpd average is pretty optimistic given the terrain and time of year. You'll be hiking a lot in the dark to do that kind of mileage and hiking in the dark is slow. As is doing camp chores in the dark. Short days, long cold nights. Sounds like all kinds of fun.

If you can get out of, or well into, Vermont by the end of October you shouldn't hit much or any snow. At least not enough to be much of a problem for more then a day or two. Just hope you don't get much rain and ice at higher elevations - that's the real risk in the early/mid fall.

[rafe]

http://thelongstarttothejourney.com/

You'll find some footage on this site of Chris and fellow thru-hikers in the snow in the Smokies. I forget which month, maybe February.

[DSettahr]

I took a look through time stamps from photos of previous long distance hikes I've participated in. The pace I've set for multiple 20 mile days with 2,000 or so feet of elevation gain per day has been about 9 hours in the past, including all breaks along the way. The length of day at Fontana Dam on December 21st is about 9 hours and 40 minutes.

If I can get camp broken down and be hiking at sunrise most mornings, I don't think hiking in the dark well be a frequent consequence. You're right in that I will be spending a lot of time in camp in the dark, but I am no stranger to this either. What I am most concerned about it is having something to keep my mentally occupied while in camp.

[DSettahr]

http://thelongstarttothejourney.com/

You'll find some footage on this site of Chris and fellow thru-hikers in the snow in the Smokies. I forget which month, maybe February.

It looks like you have to pay to view that segment. :(

[rafe]

Chris' site appears to be changing... prowl around, you may find snippets of his upcoming move. He was a conventional NOBO thru, but started a bit early. Not a record-setter, but probably the best thru-hiking movie ever, and I've seen a few. DVD should be available for purchase within a month or so.

[DSettahr]

Never mind. I found winter footage elsewhere on the site here: http://thelongstarttothejourney.com/category/seasons/

Honestly... nothing in that video really comes even close to matching the conditions one expects to experience in February in the mountains of the northeast. Granted, that video also really doesn't come close to matching the potential conditions in the Smokies I've heard depicted elsewhere.

[Snowleopard]

If you're the Dsettahr on the ADK forums and I'm recalling you correctly, you're very winter qualified. With your experience and a little luck in weather, I expect that you'll finish.

About all I can add to what you already know plus what's been said here is to try to carry as little weight as you safely can in Sept. so that you get south of the Whites and VT as quickly as you can. Speed at the beginning increases your odds of success. Don't forget, you can always have stuff mailed to you along the way. Some people mail themselves warmer clothes at the beginning of the higher peaks in the Whites and send them home later. If conditions turn nasty either in the north or south, be prepared to take a few days off till snowshoes/crampons/microspikes/warm sleeping bag, etc get mailed to you.

You'll enjoy TipiWalter's trip reports; he goes out into the Smokies 2 or 3 weeks at a stretch in all kinds of weather (with a HEAVY pack). Most thruhikers take a few zero days in town when conditions get bad down south then start up again when it warms.
You'll also enjoy the barefoot sister's book, http://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Sisters-Southbound-Adventures-Appalachian/dp/0811735303 Also, take a look at some trail journals of people that start out early NOBO to see what you might run into in the south, http://www.trailjournals.com/

[fiddlehead]

Thanks. I took a look at your website, but couldn't really find any content- it looks like much of it is inaccessible at present?

Based on past hiking experience, I am pretty confident that I will be able to start out with a solid 18-20 mile per day pace through the (relatively) flatter Maine sections immediately. I agree that getting past the Whites expediently is a solid goal. Beyond that point, my only major concern is the Smokies (and perhaps the Mt. Rogers area).

I ordered the Barefoot Sisters book and am looking forward to reading it.

Not sure why the site wouldn't work for you.
It seems to come up fine for me.
Here's the page that lists our complete journal (although it is backwards, as things were added as we went along)
If you read it, you'll see that we had many days of GREAT weather in the fall.
Including 70 deg. temps in NJ.
Not to say we didn't have our snow days here and there also.
But, we never needed crampons, snowshoes or ice axes.
Of course there, were 3 of us to take turns breaking trail when we did have snow.
You won't have that advantage.
Let me know when you get close to Eckville in PA.
If it's before Dec 8th, I'll come down and see you and rehash some old stories for you. (and bring you a pizza!)
Have fun out there.

[fiddlehead]

Oh yeah, the link to the journal:
http://triplecrownoneyear.tripod.com/id22.htm

[Marta]

I hiked a normal, leisurely pace of doing the Trail in 6 months, from July 3 - January 11, taking a week off over Christmas. Winter in the Southeast is much more about cold rain than about heavy snow. There are occasional heavy dumps of snow for which one might want snowshoes but freezing rain is much more common. MicroSpikes work well for that. It's usually possible to hop around and avoid the ice entirely, but that gets tedious after a while.

When I went over Max Patch it was 70 degrees. When I was going over Roan Mountain, it got down to zero. The snow was only about an inch deep, though. Starting through the Smokies not long before Christmas it was warm and sunny. Finishing it was raining so hard that the M&Ms in my deepest inner pocket got soaked and the colors ran. Don't think you'll only have true winter weather--you won't. But occasionally a few days of it will happen.

You'll be fine.

[DSettahr]

If you're the Dsettahr on the ADK forums and I'm recalling you correctly, you're very winter qualified. With your experience and a little luck in weather, I expect that you'll finish.

About all I can add to what you already know plus what's been said here is to try to carry as little weight as you safely can in Sept. so that you get south of the Whites and VT as quickly as you can. Speed at the beginning increases your odds of success. Don't forget, you can always have stuff mailed to you along the way. Some people mail themselves warmer clothes at the beginning of the higher peaks in the Whites and send them home later. If conditions turn nasty either in the north or south, be prepared to take a few days off till snowshoes/crampons/microspikes/warm sleeping bag, etc get mailed to you.

You'll enjoy TipiWalter's trip reports; he goes out into the Smokies 2 or 3 weeks at a stretch in all kinds of weather (with a HEAVY pack). Most thruhikers take a few zero days in town when conditions get bad down south then start up again when it warms.
You'll also enjoy the barefoot sister's book, http://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Sisters-Southbound-Adventures-Appalachian/dp/0811735303 Also, take a look at some trail journals of people that start out early NOBO to see what you might run into in the south, http://www.trailjournals.com/

Thanks. You're the second person so far in this thread that has recognized me from another forum. Apparently my reputation has preceded me. ;)

I agree with the need to be flexible with regards to gear. I've got a good, willing support crew (my parents) that has offered to mail my resupplies as needed. I am hoping to invest in a lot of non-perishable food items in advance for resupplies, and also plan to sort gear and clothing (particularly cold weather gear) so that they can quickly and easily find any requested item and have it in the mail within a day or two.

[DSettahr]

Oh yeah, the link to the journal:
http://triplecrownoneyear.tripod.com/id22.htm

Thanks. I can see the content on that page, but much of the rest of the content (including where I assume your links for navigation are) are covered by advertisements for Tripod.

It sounds like you guys really lucked out with the weather in the Smokies. 60's in January? :)

[DSettahr]

I hiked a normal, leisurely pace of doing the Trail in 6 months, from July 3 - January 11, taking a week off over Christmas. Winter in the Southeast is much more about cold rain than about heavy snow. There are occasional heavy dumps of snow for which one might want snowshoes but freezing rain is much more common. MicroSpikes work well for that. It's usually possible to hop around and avoid the ice entirely, but that gets tedious after a while.

When I went over Max Patch it was 70 degrees. When I was going over Roan Mountain, it got down to zero. The snow was only about an inch deep, though. Starting through the Smokies not long before Christmas it was warm and sunny. Finishing it was raining so hard that the M&Ms in my deepest inner pocket got soaked and the colors ran. Don't think you'll only have true winter weather--you won't. But occasionally a few days of it will happen.

You'll be fine.

I agree- as I stated in an earlier post, I think that cold, rainy days ought to be a much greater concern than significant amounts of snowfall during my time frame. There is a chance that I might encounter deep snow. It is a certainty that I will encounter cold rain (and it won't just be once or twice).

[Venchka]

I agree- as I stated in an earlier post, I think that cold, rainy days ought to be a much greater concern than significant amounts of snowfall during my time frame. There is a chance that I might encounter deep snow. It is a certainty that I will encounter cold rain (and it won't just be once or twice).

Knowing and understanding that puts you light years ahead of the clueless & unprepared.

Rock & Roll! Have a great hike. Looking forward to your Trip Journal.

Wayne

[SteelCut]

I'm looking forward to following your adventures.

[rafe]

Cold rain is a certainty for any AT thru-hike. Well, as certain as you can be without a direct line to g*d.

Average weather conditions are not very meaningful. One needs to be prepared for extremes. Near 80F Tuesday afternoon, freezing rain on Wednesday night. Welcome to early April in Georgia.

Sounds like the OP knows his stuff. Read lots of journals, follow the threads. Thru-hiking is different from peakbagging. And different from what Tipi Walter does.

Heck you might even take a poke at the AT Game -- http://www.atthruhike.com/. Kinda silly, but could be instructive too. Many ways to "die."

One more reference source for you: "Hiking The Appalachian Trail", James Hare, Ed., Rodale Press 1975. 2000 pages of AT journals from long before the Internet. Real AT pioneers.

Jim Shattuck did an August sobo departure, arrived Springer the following May. His story starts on P. 593 with a harrowing scene of near-death in a blizzard on March 1 on Sinking Creek Mtn. in VA. (Not a very high or remarkable mountain.)

[Marta]

As with any other thru-hike, people focus on the physical and underestimate and brush off the mental and emotional challenges.

The two biggies for winter hiking, even on the AT in the South are solitude and an exaggerated perception of danger.

Every year there are people who post on WhiteBlaze that they're going to start their NOBO hikes on Jan. 1 because they want solitude. Even if being alone in the dark in the woods day after day doesn't freak them out, they realize that they just don't enjoy it. After not too many days they decide this is not a fun way to spend their time, and quit. The hike just wasn't what they expected. (Credit to Bill Bryson.) If you've never tried being alone for long stretches of time, you don't really know whether you'll like it or not. Some love it. Most decide they don't.

Extreme weather conditions also freak some people out. Heavy rain. High winds. Any snow at all. I've been around people on the AT who start to panic when their hands get numb from cold. Instead of calmly taking steps to warm up their hands, they freak out. (I particularly liked the guys in Kentucky who burned their clothes for warmth, wasn't that last winter?)

It doesn't sound as if you're going unarmed into either of these battles.

I found the Southern Highlands to be quite beautiful in the winter. (I lived in North Carolina for a dozen years before I moved to Montana.) The ice that crystalizes around the openings of rodent holes. The way you can judge temperature by the curl of rhododendron leaves. The lushness of moss and lichens in the Nantahala. The clear springs and streams and abundant water. There are some awesome places (Overmountain Shelter and Max Patch come to mind) to see meteors streaking across the sky.

I'm getting nostalgic here. Have a great hike!

[rafe]

What Marta said. Loneliness is a big deal for sobos. Night after night alone in the woods or in a shelter gets old.

[takethisbread]

I have attempted this in the past. I didn't make it. I will say that expect a ton of rain! I can't remember many good days and under those conditions maine through Vermont were and can be brutal. I decided at some point that I wanted to enjoy a thruhike and went back and did it at the popularly prescribed times. It was worth the wait


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[rafe]

Every year there are plenty of slow SOBOS who finish in winter conditions. You will just be overtaking them. Sounds like a great adventure to me. By the way, if there is a snowflake in the air the SNP is likely to be closed to car traffic -- but walking through is just fine. Good luck to you and tell us your story.

I suspect it's the majority of SOBOs who finish in winter, not just the slow ones. That's because they start in June and July, as opposed to NOBOs who a few months earlier. I hiked SOBO for several hundred miles in '07, apparently ahead of the pack. Two of them overtook me in early September in SNP. From Waybesboro to Catawba, I pretty much had the trail to myself.

I certainly don't mean to suggest that the trail will be covered in deep snow from Maine to Georgia. But it will be a tough slog. SOBO is hard core to begin with, and starting so late makes it that much more so. Cold rain, slush and ice can be worse than deep snow. Even the Barefoot Sisters put on shoes when ice became the prevalent condition.

[Another Kevin]

I have attempted this in the past. I didn't make it. I will say that expect a ton of rain! I can't remember many good days and under those conditions maine through Vermont were and can be brutal. I decided at some point that I wanted to enjoy a thruhike and went back and did it at the popularly prescribed times. It was worth the wait

I know that DSettahr's home ground is upstate NY. Vermont is very similar to the ADK's in a wet season. I'm sure that DSettahr is no stranger to prolonged cold rain and pools of quicksand on the trail, because I've hiked some of the places he has, at the same time of year (for instance, I attempted a SOBO thru of the Northville Placid Trail with a Columbus Day start). He's going in with his eyes open and some system for keeping his feet dry. He goes in some pretty goshdurned brutal conditions already..If he can, as he hopes, get clear of the above-treeline stuff before the heavy ice moves in, I'd figure his chances are pretty good.

Working in his favor is that nothing south of Vermont is anywhere near as technical as the Mahoosucs, the Whites, or the higher spots in the Greens. Or the ADK's for that matter. For my money, doing the 46 is technically a lot more difficult than doing the A-T, and doing them in winter is just an astonishing feat, and he's enough of a mountaineer to have done just that. A Winter 46'er is also perfectly capable of dealing with losing the trail in deep snow or poor visibility. Someone who can find his way into Allen, or the Seward Range, or the Santanonis and Couchsachraga in winter can surely find the A-T again after losing it.

I'll surely be interested in following his progress!