Compressed sleeping bag.... [Archive]

JaketheFake

08-26-2015, 23:03

gsingjane

08-27-2015, 06:34

What the compression will have done is negatively impacted the bag's ability to keep you warm. So, if you bought a 30* bag you can expect it won't keep you warm to quite that temperature. If your plan was to take the lightest bag possible for expected conditions (e.g., 30* bag for expected 30* temps) you may have to re-think it, maybe take a bag liner or a space blanket depending on how worried you are about having to sleep cold. But if the bag was going to be overkill in some sense it may not make any difference (IOW if you have a 0* bag but don't expect temps under 20*).

On the dry-bag question, I have used a few Sea to Summit brand bags and they've worked out well.

Good luck!

Jane in CT

Starchild

08-27-2015, 07:12

Hold it up to the light and see if there are any spots of obviously less insulation. Lay it flat and check the lofting, does it look like the compartments are full.

daddytwosticks

08-27-2015, 07:16

I'd take it out of the storage bag and maybe hang it in the closet or store under your bed. Someplace where the bag can truly "fluff up" to maximum volume for a while. Also, I'd try the bag out one cold winter night down there in Texas before your thru. Don't know what the temp rating of the bag is or when you are starting your hike. These items may play a big factor in whether the bag will be usable. My gut feeling is that you probably didn't compromise the temp rating that much. Just my opinion. :)

Casey & Gina

08-27-2015, 07:36

I did the same with Marmot Sawtooth bags - not compression bags just the stuff sacks they came with. They seem to still be fine and fluff up when taken out and very warm when used, though I don't do it anymore. I gave them really thorough shakings when I took them out. I do however now use a compression sack when backpacking and wonder how it is okay for the down to be tightly compressed for a day but not loosely compressed for longer. How's that work?

MuddyWaters

08-27-2015, 07:48

Its fine
Do you know how they store and ship down? hint, not loose.
How long do you think your sleeping bag sat stuffed on the shelf in mfg, inventory , and distribution? Probably a year.

Just let it loft up
Storing under normal stuffsak compression isnt harmful
Run it thru the dryer on low with some old shoes

Drybones

08-27-2015, 09:13

Wash it (in a front loader, no detergent if it's clean) and dry it slowly with 3-4 tennis balls, this should help get some fluff back.

squeezebox

08-27-2015, 09:15

Maybe put it in the clothes dryer on fluff every so often. forget the tennis balls in the dryer with it.

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 09:34

I bought an REI Igneo for my quickly approaching AT hike in 2016. I bought the bad in May and I made a very poor rookie mistake and put it into a stuff sack. Then I learned that was a no-no ... Store a bag compressed. Three months compressed ruined it? It now is in the bigger bag that Came with the sleeping bag. You think I would've figured that one out? But I guess I just did. Thoughts?

While I'm on the subject does anybody have any good recommendations for a rolltop dry bag for the sleeping bag. Research suggests that a wit sleeping bag is a miserable night. Thanks. I am especially looking for the right size of dry bag to buy.

Had to look up the bag- but since it's down...
You're fine.

A down bag can last for 10 years or more... the better you care for it, the longer it lasts. So I wouldn't have any concerns about having ruined your bag. Just store it properly from now on.

Think of it this way- you're planning on a thru... where you will then stuff it into a stuff sack every day for 4-6 months correct?:-?

The sea to summit bags aren't drybags, but they are light.
Simple test- fill a "drybag" with air. If you push on it, and it leaks no air- then it is not a drybag.
The STS does not hold air, is just sil-nylon and NOT waterproof.

In looking up your bag I note it is "waterproof" down. So I wouldn't go nuts. Between the water resistant down and a water resistant STS stuff sack you would need to put your bag into a creek and sit on it for it to get soaked. If you really are worried-you can use a kitchen sized garbage bag inside the stuff sack that came with the bag too. The poorman's drybag is actually a drybag if you gooseneck the garbage bag.

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 09:46

Oh, your other question-
REI kindly lists in the specs that your bag is an 8x17 stuff sack at 14L http://www.rei.com/product/862532/rei-igneo-sleeping-bag#tab-specs
(Even if they didn't if you take the stuff sack size in inches- pie r squared x height divided by 61 is how you figure liters of a cylinder.)

Anywho... so you need a 14 L stuff sack, with a little room to roll the top.
http://www.rei.com/product/777725/sea-to-summit-ultra-sil-dry-sack
Looks like your choice is to struggle with the 13L or go easy with the 20L
If you have any sleep clothes or socks, or other stuff you might care to keep dry... 20L looks like a winner to me. :)

JaketheFake

08-27-2015, 10:07

Casey & Gina

08-27-2015, 10:22

The sea to summit bags aren't drybags, but they are light.
Simple test- fill a "drybag" with air. If you push on it, and it leaks no air- then it is not a drybag.
The STS does not hold air, is just sil-nylon and NOT waterproof.

The Sea to Summit eVent Compression Dry Sacks are waterproof! I use one of these for both of mine (since I two sleeping bags together I pack them in one sack for better packability): http://amzn.com/B000NQQ5A0

I just realized that they have an Ultra-Sil variant of this product which is half the weight (http://amzn.com/B00HS3AVPQ), so I will probably order one of them to use instead. 3 ounces may not be a lot but every bit adds up and this is an easy way to save a few.

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 10:34

The Sea to Summit eVent Compression Dry Sacks are waterproof! I use one of these for both of mine (since I two sleeping bags together I pack them in one sack for better packability): http://amzn.com/B000NQQ5A0

I just realized that they have an Ultra-Sil variant of this product which is half the weight (http://amzn.com/B00HS3AVPQ), so I will probably order one of them to use instead. 3 ounces may not be a lot but every bit adds up and this is an easy way to save a few.
The Ultra-sil version is the one I'm talking about.
I picked one up to try... the only reason I would use one is if it doubled as a pillow. It doesn't hold air.
Likely you could seam seal it and it might do the job, but I didn't care too. I use my real drybags this way when canoeing and picked up one of the bigger ones to try as a pack liner/pillow combo in Matt Kirk's Sub60 pack. The Ultra-sil is lighter than the bag that ships with his pack and using a large volume pillow would have been a nice combo with a Small size Neo air.

I haven't tried the e-vent one's, it's possible those are seam taped and if so would likely qualify as water proof, but as the e-vent "breathes" it would be waterproof but would fail the airtest by design.

That said, the air test is for submersion in non breathable fabrics is a good one... as mentioned, for backpacking I'd probably call them functionally waterproof.

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 10:43

Thank you. I should have also been more clear it was and a stuff sack and so my compressed. I'm just glad I am paying attention to these things and caught it now and didn't have it stuffed for the next six months. But last night when I started thinking about all this I did start wondering what will happen to the bag after three months of being packed in my backpack on the trail?? Obviously it will be compromised and that's why my concern started I wanted to start out with the best possible bag at the beginning when it's going to be the coldest.

Down does eventually wear, but not as fast as most synthetics. I wouldn't worry about it too much. On the trail you are unpacking and fluffing the bag every day. Rather than years, nights used is a better number.
Continuous filament synthetics can permanently lose as much as 25% of their value the first time you compress it.
100 nights or so in you'll likely see some degradation and loss of warmth.
Short staple fill synthetics handle compression much better and often go 150-200 nights before any change in performance.

You should avoid overly compressing a synthetic period.

The higher fill power a down, the less feathers it has, so less damage from stuffing overall.
A down bag can go 200-500 nights before any loss of warmth if cared for well.

A bigger concern I would have... If your gear sits in storage for the next six months without any tune-up trips or use on your part. Likely you'll be replacing most of it at Neels Gap or end up going home by the smokies. Use your gear and get in some tune-up trips! :sun

Casey & Gina

08-27-2015, 10:47

The Ultra-sil version is the one I'm talking about.
I picked one up to try... the only reason I would use one is if it doubled as a pillow. It doesn't hold air.
Likely you could seam seal it and it might do the job, but I didn't care too. I use my real drybags this way when canoeing and picked up one of the bigger ones to try as a pack liner/pillow combo in Matt Kirk's Sub60 pack. The Ultra-sil is lighter than the bag that ships with his pack and using a large volume pillow would have been a nice combo with a Small size Neo air.

I haven't tried the e-vent one's, it's possible those are seam taped and if so would likely qualify as water proof, but as the e-vent "breathes" it would be waterproof but would fail the airtest by design.

That said, the air test is for submersion in non breathable fabrics is a good one... as mentioned, for backpacking I'd probably call them functionally waterproof.

Yep! On both models, the bottom is eVent fabric, which allows air to pass but not water - the same material is used in many waterproof hiking shoes and some rain gear. As only the bottom vents and air only passes slowly, it takes a little time to get the sleeping bags packed down adequately to roll the top nicely, but I don't find it to be a big hassle. I did plop the sack stuffed with my bags into the bathtub as a test and not a drop leaked in, though I didn't try holding it underwater for a few minutes, sitting on it, etc. Those sound like good tests to try though - I am ordering the Ultra-Sil variant now, so once it arrives I will put it to the test and report my findings. In general though I am a big fan of Sea to Summit products that are appropriate for my needs - I find them to be higher-quality than the competition as a general rule.

Realistically I only care about keeping my gear dry in case water gets into my pack, a hydration bladder breaks, or - at worst - my pack ends up in a river for a few seconds if I fall while crossing so it doesn't need to be super-waterproof, but I think it is good to put gear to the test and find out where it's limits are!

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 11:00

Specs from REI... I don't see any e-vent listed on the Ultra-Sil.

Siliconized on the outside, tough Cordura® nylon is weatherproof, lightweight and durable for hiking and backpacking in wet conditions
Polyurethane coating on the inside permits the fabric to be seam taped; waterproof seams are double-stitched and factory-taped for added weather protection
Hypalon® watertight roll-top closure keeps contents secure and protected; fold the Hypalon strip down first and make at least 3 rolls before closing the buckle
Roll-top fabric sacks are not intended for complete submersion; sensitive electronic devices should be double-bagged or packed in a waterproof hard case for maximum protection
Ultra-Sil sacks are designed for use inside a backpack and are not suitable for boating

popping on STS site- I note this is new- http://www.seatosummit.com/product/?item=Ultra-Sil%26reg%3B+Nano+Dry+Sack&o1=0&o2=0&o3=511-32
4/10 of an ounce lighter in 20L than the Ultra-sil.

They list a HH of 1200mm, not horrible, but not really bomber either, that's on the lower end of Sil-nylon.

Definitely meant as you describe though- rain, occasional water contact or a quick slip and soak in a creek.
But 1200 mm sil will pass air for sure.

On their site- http://www.seatosummit.com/stuff-compression-sacks/
I note the only one they officially call a drysack is the e-vent version.
Anything else is water-resistant.

I would imagine that if you cut off the compression part of the e-vent sack you'd be at least half the weight if not a third.
If you really wanted both- weight and waterproof... that may be the best option on the market.

colorado_rob

08-27-2015, 11:12

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 11:24

I would imagine that if you cut off the compression part of the e-vent sack you'd be at least half the weight if not a third.
If you really wanted both- weight and waterproof... that may be the best option on the market.

Scratch that lol- REI sells a non-compression e-vent and it's still relatively heavy.
http://www.rei.com/product/766592/sea-to-summit-evac-dry-sack#tab-specs

Guess Zpacks is still the winner... until the cuben gets pinholes from use that is.

Just Bill

08-27-2015, 11:34

Hard to believe, but I believe storing a down bag compressed does no harm. I used to think it did, but bag companies generally say no problem, though some say to store it uncompressed anyway. Just fluff it up real good. don't think you have to wash it.

800 fill plus... no more feathers. I think the feathers are more brittle overall and downproof fabrics have improved as well over the last decade.
You're probably talking the difference between ideal, and fine.
Really the daily unpacking, stuffing, etc is harder on the shell than anything. Down is pretty resilient, but at some point everything wears out.
For the money though, I'd call it a better safe than sorry in down.

The higher fill powers can pull humidity from ambient air too, so I think your bigger storage risk is musty odor or even mildew.
Under a bed laid flat is still best all around IMO.

Berserker

08-27-2015, 12:41

While I'm on the subject does anybody have any good recommendations for a rolltop dry bag for the sleeping bag. Research suggests that a wit sleeping bag is a miserable night. Thanks. I am especially looking for the right size of dry bag to buy.
Line the inside of your pack with a trash compactor bag and then pack everything inside that. With that you don't need a separate water proof stuff sack, and it protects everything else in the pack. I pack my bag loose in the bottom of my pack inside the trash compactor bag and have never had any issues even when out in several days of rain. The main thing that exposes your bag to water is when you actually have it out of your pack. In particular, if you get into several days of rain and keep it as dry as you can it will still get damp in your tent from all the humidity.

Tommyhawkin

08-27-2015, 13:54

So, How long does a down bag last. I have one that is forty years old and I still use

Another Kevin

08-27-2015, 16:53

The higher fill powers can pull humidity from ambient air too, so I think your bigger storage risk is musty odor or even mildew.
Under a bed laid flat is still best all around IMO.

In my house, under a bed laid flat would get wrecked by the cats. I use a couple of coat hangers and store mine hanging in the basement, right where the dehumidifier can blow dry air on them.

Casey & Gina

08-28-2015, 00:28

I received the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil eVent Dry Compression Sack that I ordered today (thanks Amazon Prime for free same-day delivery on this product)! The weight is half that of the standard eVent model I had, a savings of 3 ounces. The new one is easier to stuff thanks to the slicker interior of the Ultra-Sil fabric, which is actually a big help that makes the job quicker and more pleasant. It is also easier to compress as the fabric shifts around itself as you compress. The lighter smoother webbing material makes the compression job easier too. All in all, I quickly packed out two Marmot Sawtooth bags into the 20L (large) size bag and compressed them to the same degree I was able to with the other model, in half the time and in greater comfort. I was able to roll the top 6 times prior to compression, twice as many as needed. The seams are taped on BOTH models of StS Dry Compression eVent sacks.

I then gave my wife the bundle on her way to the shower and asked her to stick it in the tub at the drain side and plug the bathtub during her shower, then rinse it off, towel dry it and bring it back to me when she was done. She complied and returned with a damp bundle, which weighed about a half ounce more due so some residual water trapped in the straps which felt damp to the touch. I proceeded to open it up and take out the sleeping bags - both of which were perfectly dry.

I am very happy with this product and cannot recommend it enough! It was just under $50 so not cheap, but well worth the investment to me!

rafe

08-28-2015, 08:06

Down bags last pretty much forever if cared for properly. I still have one from the early 1970s, and another from 1990 or so.

That 1970 bag is nearly in "mint" condition except that one of the internal baffles is broken. It has 2.5 lbs. of down fill, and kept me warm on a couple of -10* nights in the White Mtns.

I keep them in mesh sacks or a pillow case between hikes. Keep 'em un-compressed as much as possible.

Bronk

08-28-2015, 09:26

rafe

08-28-2015, 09:50

My bag has two nylon loops at the foot end of the bag and I put two tacks in the wall and hang it on the wall. I agree with the person who said to wash it to fluff it up. I don't use a stuff sack at all for my sleeping bag...it just gets stuffed into the pack however it will fit.

I do the opposite while actually hiking. Compressed tightly and with a plastic bag lining the stuff sack. That way the bag is 100% guaranteed dry when I need it. One of the first priorities when I get to camp is unpacking and lofting the bag -- once there's a dry place to do so.

RangerZ

08-28-2015, 12:09

In my house, under a bed laid flat would get wrecked by the cats. I use a couple of coat hangers and store mine hanging in the basement, right where the dehumidifier can blow dry air on them.

I had mine uncompressed in a mesh bag on the floor until I noticed my cat eyeing it. Now its up where (in theory) she can't get to it.

In camp my bear line is a clothes line before and after its a bear line. Weather permitting I fluff and hang my bag out when it comes out of my pack at night and before it goes back in the pack in the morning.

saltysack

08-28-2015, 13:58

It's my assumption the less often you compress a down bag the better it hold true to rating....for me I don't see the need to squeeze it into a small dry sack....never had a bit of water get inside my compactor bag inside my ula circuit & I never use a pack cover...just my .02.....yes I know opinions r like A$$ holes...everyone has one!!![emoji16]

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saltysack

08-29-2015, 08:10

While unethical you could always return it...[emoji16]. Gotta luv that return policy

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Rocket Jones

08-29-2015, 10:30

Line the inside of your pack with a trash compactor bag and then pack everything inside that. With that you don't need a separate water proof stuff sack, and it protects everything else in the pack. I pack my bag loose in the bottom of my pack inside the trash compactor bag and have never had any issues even when out in several days of rain. The main thing that exposes your bag to water is when you actually have it out of your pack. In particular, if you get into several days of rain and keep it as dry as you can it will still get damp in your tent from all the humidity.

+1 I keep all my sleeping stuff - quilt, pad, sleep clothes - in a trash compactor bag. Twist the top closed, then fold the 'tail' over and secure with a woman's pony-tail band. They're stronger than rubber bands. This is my "must stay dry" bag.

The rest of my clothes and things that need to stay dry go into a super-sized ziplock. The clear ziplock lets me find what I need easily, and I don't need to open up my "must stay dry" bag every time I need to add/remove clothes.

The kitchen and food bag are already somewhat waterproof and are fine without extra layers.

atraildreamer

08-29-2015, 16:23

In my house, under a bed laid flat would get wrecked by the cats. I use a couple of coat hangers and store mine hanging in the basement, right where the dehumidifier can blow dry air on them.

I had a Gerry Mountain down bag that I got in 1972, (and it was stolen in 2001). I kept it loose in a trash bag when not using it for hiking. In the winter, we would use it as a top quilt on our bed. :sun

Every so often, I would take it to the laundromat and wash it with Ivory Flakes detergent, which did not harm the down. I would put the bag in a large drier and let it go for a couple of hours on very low heat. When I got home, I spread it out on top of the bed and let it finish air drying.

Our cat loved to sleep on top of it! :)