GPS questions

[SOLODARE]

So Im thinking of getting a Garmin Oregon 600 series for use during multiday trips.
Reasons for the purchase include:
Backtracking in case I get lost or am uncertain of the direction or trail I should be using.
I would also love to see the data of what I have done that day.
The ability to use others tracks seems like a fun idea.

Questions I have:
if I get the base 600 do I have to purchase the topo maps from garmin? are there free maps that are just as good or the same? (like from GPSfiledepot)
do topo maps actually have trails marked on them? Or is that hit or miss or not all?

[backpacker451]

Is this for AT use? Do you own a smartphone?

[aaronthebugbuffet]

Questions I have:
if I get the base 600 do I have to purchase the topo maps from garmin? are there free maps that are just as good or the same? (like from GPSfiledepot)
do topo maps actually have trails marked on them? Or is that hit or miss or not all?

I had to upload maps to my etrex. I don't think any models come with detailed maps unless bundled with the unit for a price.

You can dowload Garmin Basecamp for free and view the maps you download from GPSfiledpot.

[SOLODARE]

Is this for AT use? Do you own a smartphone?
Not strictly for AT use no, Do have a smart phone, Have tried a few apps but nothing I like. signal is spotty a best and Gps kills the battery pretty fast.

[Fredt4]

GPS shouldn't kill your battery quickly. Learn about airplane mode and possibly carry extra batteries. One big advantage of using a phone is that you'll use it more frequently that a dedicated GPS device, hence you're more familiar with it. YMMV.

[MuddyWaters]

Typically gps batteries dont last that long. They are high power draw. If you want to track yourself day after day , you will need a charger and solarcell, or a lot of batteries. Yes, it will kill a phone battery quickly.

Best thing, is probably to bring a smsrtphone, turn it on only when needed. Which is almost never.

It really wont take you long to figure that a gps is dead wt. Its good with a 3d fix for knowing how close you are to top of a climb though.

[backpacker451]

One of the big reasons I said smartphone was I have had 3 garmin GPS's die on me in less than a year. 1 Colorado and 2 Oregons. The Oregons lasted me less than 6 months max, but this was 2011 or so.

[Another Kevin]

I like using GPS on the trail, because map making is one of the things I do out there. (For instance, most of the field work for http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4286650 was mine.) I use a smartphone, in airplane mode, with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth off, and the screen brightness set as low as I can read it. I try hard to discipline myself to lighting up the screen at most every half hour unless I'm entering a waypoint. I can generally get a day's hiking on a charge, and I carry a way-too-heavy 14000 mAh ruggedized battery pack to recharge on trail. I can get 5-6 days out of the pack, and I don't do a longer food carry than that, anyway.

As far as maps go, you can see a lot of popular choices in the drop-down menu at the upper right of http://kbk.is-a-geek.net/maps/20150606/20150606npt0606b.html (GPS track from a day trip mapping a trail relocation). If you scroll it all the way down to 'Kevin's Map' at the bottom, you'll see the map that I make for myself. I like them better than any of the other options. Unlike the US Topos, the trail information isn't forty years out of date!

[iAmKrzys]

If you are thinking about getting Oregon then are planning to use it in cold weather? The thing about some touchscreen gps units is that you may have to take your gloves off and it may be unpleasant when it's really cold. Otherwise, I see this model used by a lot of geocachers, so many people must like it.

As to the maps, I love OpenStreetMap.org and I have posted a number of times before on how to put them on newer Garmin models. Here is one of my older posts: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/111660-Best-(ideally-free)-maps-to-install-on-a-GPS-unit?p=1974467&viewfull=1#post1974467

[SteelCut]

http://blog.hyperlitemountaingear.com/the-best-gps-device-you-already-own-it/

[Traveler]

It really depends what you are using a GPS for, but I tend to use the tool specifically designed for the work.

Though smart phones can be handy and probably sufficient on a well marked, well used trail like the AT to find your position periodically and shut off the device, signal loss, power issues, and weather/water/shock problems can limit their usefulness, especially if you go off trail or find yourself in a warren of small trails or woods roads.

I use the Garmin GPSmap 64s GPS, that can hold signal under heavy canopy, in ravines and deep/steep walled canyons. I have used this along with my older Garmin 60 and a new iPhone 5s and found the 64s has higher signal stability and is a bit more accurate overall. While I'm sure smart phone apps provide some similar functions as good GPS units, using basic features on the Motion-X app, the battery life of the phone was not that impressive (in airplane mode). I get far more horsepower out of two AA batteries in the Garmin than I can from the Smartphone. However, this is my use profile and your experience may vary depending how you use these devices.

I've no argument using a cell phone for navigation especially for a day putting, I just find tools specifically designed for the work they do tend to be more competent and reliable.

[Another Kevin]

I like using GPS on the trail, because map making is one of the things I do out there. (For instance, most of the field work for http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4286650 was mine.) I use a smartphone, in airplane mode, with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth off, and the screen brightness set as low as I can read it. I try hard to discipline myself to lighting up the screen at most every half hour unless I'm entering a waypoint. I can generally get a day's hiking on a charge, and I carry a way-too-heavy 14000 mAh ruggedized battery pack to recharge on trail. I can get 5-6 days out of the pack, and I don't do a longer food carry than that, anyway.

As far as maps go, you can see a lot of popular choices in the drop-down menu at the upper right of http://kbk.is-a-geek.net/maps/20150606/20150606npt0606b.html (GPS track from a day trip mapping a trail relocation). If you scroll it all the way down to 'Kevin's Map' at the bottom, you'll see the map that I make for myself. I like them better than any of the other options. Unlike the US Topos, the trail information isn't forty years out of date!

Oops. 'Kevin's Map' is down at the moment with a hardware failure. I'll have it back up over the weekend.

[dervari]

If you are thinking about getting Oregon then are planning to use it in cold weather? The thing about some touchscreen gps units is that you may have to take your gloves off and it may be unpleasant when it's really cold. Otherwise, I see this model used by a lot of geocachers, so many people must like it.

I believe the non-Android based GPS units use a resistive touchscreen which only responds to pressure on a single point. They work great with gloved fingers, pencil tip erasers, etc.

[mtntopper]

Typically gps batteries dont last that long. They are high power draw. If you want to track yourself day after day , you will need a charger and solarcell, or a lot of batteries. Yes, it will kill a phone battery quickly.

Best thing, is probably to bring a smsrtphone, turn it on only when needed. Which is almost never.

It really wont take you long to figure that a gps is dead wt. Its good with a 3d fix for knowing how close you are to top of a climb though.

It is not dead weight if you plan to go off trail exploring as many on this site do.

[Kaptainkriz]

I use maps from gpsfiledepot and an etrex 20. Two AA get you ~25hrs if you dont lose the light. Also grabbed the shelter coords from here: http://tnlandforms.us/at/googleat.php
it's nice (for me) to know how far it is to the next shelter and how far I've hiked. Topos are also nice to see the grade ahead.

[sliverstorm]

Personally, the #1 reason I use a Garmin is because it has field-swappable batteries. Carrying extra AA's is far simpler and cheaper than dealing with boost packs for my cell phone.

(Add on top of that the question of button vs. touch user interface, durability, accuracy...)

I've used gpsfiledepot. I found the trails database to be incredibly handy- it's small and low accuracy, but no matter where I go I have at least a little information about the local trails near me. The maps, however, I found disappointing. I wound up buying a subscription to the BirdsEye USGS Topo, which is $30/year for all-you-can-eat USGS Quads.

To my knowledge models that come with maps are specifically labeled as such. For example the 64st comes with... I think 100k maps, signified by the "t". Note that those are low detail. If you want high detail, e.g. 24k, you need to get them on a regional basis, because they are much larger file size than the 100k maps.

[johngo]

Not strictly for AT use no, Do have a smart phone, Have tried a few apps but nothing I like. signal is spotty a best and Gps kills the battery pretty fast.

Phone battery life when using a backcountry GPS app has improved dramatically in the last couple of years. The signal is much improved now that the iPhone is using both US and Russian satellites. Battery life is much improved if you put your phone in airplane mode, and turn off the screen if you are using it for track recording and not for actual navigation. And of course, always carry a backup power supply. I have used and recommend Anker auxiliary batteries, you can buy them from Amazon and just about any size you want.

[RockDoc]

Another vote for a dedicated robust GPS unit.
Get good basemaps, they're worth it. Yes, they have trails, springs, all the roads. You can download the AT track, shelter locations, etc.
Stick with garmin. We've used them all over the world with good results, since our 1997 trip to Nepal...

[Leo L.]

My smartphone is a 1yr old Sony and the battery life as well as the speed and precision of the GPS module is really amazing. More modern smartphones might perform even better.

Did a nighthike recently with full 12hrs constant tracking, running two GPS/maps apps simultanousely (Backcountry Navigator and an Austrian hiking app), switched on the phone quite many times for route finding and progress control and the battery dropped from 100% to 75%. So for typical hiking you might calculate 4-5 days tracking with one battery set. For occassional use of the GPS I had 10 days battery life. Don't know of any GPS handheld that can endure that long without recharging.
This Sony smartphone is waterproof and if you carry it in a case also somewhat rugged.

Unless you do some really decent exploration job in really rough environments, I don't see any reason to get a dedicated GPS.
In fact I think smartphones will cannibalize the hendheld GPS just the same as they did eat up market shares of the digicams.

[Hikingjim]

I have a garmin etrex 20 that I only take on very remote adventures (usually canoeing). I don't like anything about it (compared to a phone GPS), except for the fact that it's likely more reliable.
I'm sure there's much better handhelds, but not interested in upgrading that piece of equipment since it's not frequently used

Even on those trips I bring my smart phone as well and the gps handheld is just backup because my android GPS is 10x easier to use. I do not find battery issues on airplane mode + GPS.

I also found from personal experience that no matter what you use for navigation, if you drop it out of your canoe and it sinks 300 ft down, you're out of luck!

[johngo]

I have a contact who is in electronics purchasing manager high up in a national (USA) outdoor equipment retail store.
He asked me not to name the store, so I won't.
He told me that their stores plan to phase out selling retail GPS units over the next several years, because smart phones have become so capable and are superior in terms of map quality, screen resolution, and low cost.
So, if you have any stock in Garmin, and that would be a good time to get rid of it.

[iAmKrzys]

I have a contact who is in electronics purchasing manager high up in a national (USA) outdoor equipment retail store.
He asked me not to name the store, so I won't.
He told me that their stores plan to phase out selling retail GPS units over the next several years, because smart phones have become so capable and are superior in terms of map quality, screen resolution, and low cost.
So, if you have any stock in Garmin, and that would be a good time to get rid of it.

I can believe that hand-held gps may share the fate of most point-and-shoot cameras, yet they won't completely go away. There are people who will continue using them for their ruggedness and still superior battery life. I typically get around 25 hours runtime (or three 8-hour hiking days) on my etrex 30 out of 2 AA batteries, and I did accidentally drop it in a stream without breaking it. I also prefer to keep my phone for emergencies if in range. I can imagine hand-held gps units evolving towards devices like inReach that also provide two-way satellite communication in places where cell phones don't work.

[Venchka]

Alas, phones, for the most part, no longer have user replaceable batteries. Darn shame. Another "feature" in the name of cost cutting.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Venchka]

Garmin now owns DeLorme, and consequently InReach.
Wayne


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leo L.]

As johngo confirmed above, the life of handheld GPS will come to an end pretty soon. No idea where companies like Garmin will go next or if they even survive, not sure if they can survive in just producing highend GPS (that will still be around a long time), but that's their Business.

If you compare the numbers of smartphones sold per year, to the number of handheld GPS (and I think there is a factor of 1000 or more inbetween) its very clear where all the money goes, and gobs of money means lots of developement with results in smaller size, less power consumption, faster calculation, better user interface, etc.

So nowadays you will have a way more advanced GPS System in your smartphone than in a dedicated (consumer-level) GPS.
If there is no other, very special and personal reason to buy a dedicated GPS, get a smartphone.

[Uncle Joe]

I have the Oregon 600. My first advice is to use Lithium batteries. You'll need the extra time they bring. I must admit, I rarely take it hiking as I'm generally on the AT and Guthook's App is just so good. It comes in handy on the Benton MacKaye, though. You can get free maps and they aren't bad. Garmin, IMO, is in sore need of a usability team.

For some maps check out: https://www.gpsfiledepot.com

[colorado_rob]

Alas, phones, for the most part, no longer have user replaceable batteries. Darn shame. Another "feature" in the name of cost cutting.
Wayne
As you say, not many, but some still do. I've recently been shopping, and you can still buy Galaxy S 5's new, and I'm about ready to pull the trigger. Their batteries weigh 0.7 ounces and cost less than $10 each. Decent phone, decent camera, I think I'm going this way as my current 'droid has seen better times (speaker broken, hence ringer doesn't work, plus well scratched). The external Anker-style batteries work great, but are not as weight efficient as the native phone batteries.

I agree, stand alone GPS units are fading fast. I still carry my little, 1.5 ounce Garmin Foretrex 401, loaded with lithiums that will last 2 days fairly easily, and if only turned on occasionally, will last a couple weeks. That 1.5 ounces is a nice supplement to my phone app, call it a 1.5 ounce backup for a phone.

So many great GPS apps out there! I use and like "US TOPO", though I'm sure there are better ones. I hear "backcountry navigator" works great. I also have halfmile's PCT app. These do everything a dedicated GPS does, and seem to be very accurate. Even just plain old google maps shows the AT when zoomed in. This got me back on the trail once in CT (or MA?) when I missed a turn, yacking away with another hiker, we didn't notice for about a mile.

[globetruck]

I have an old (8 years?) Garmin Etrex Vista hcx, and it's been great! AA batteries last about 2.5-3 trail days, I get base maps from GPS file depot, and it suits my needs: geo caching, saving tracks, marking a few waypoints, etc. I keep saying that i will upgrade to a newer model, but I don't see much change in utility for all the money.

[Traveler]

In the early 90s, the bromide of the "paperless office" was widely considered to be prescient and unavoidable. Nearly 30 years later we still have paper in the office despite generational changes in technology.

I suspect hand held GPS will be in the market, though its likely to become more niched, despite conjecture they will disappear from the market landscape.

[ChuckT]

You won't get my GPS unless you pry it from my cold dead hands! 😁😁

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[johngo]

Hey friends, a good discussion here, thanks for keeping it civil.
If you have another look at my comment above, I never said that handheld GPS is will no longer be available. All I said was one particular major outdoor retailer will probably not be carrying them anymore. There will certainly still be a market for handheld GPS is, they're just going to get harder to find. Professional users such as Forrester's, biologist, archaeologists, wildland firefighters, etc. will probably continue to use them in some capacity.

I did not know that Garmin owns Delorme, that is interesting to know.

[Phlashlite]

I have a Garmin Montana 650T I loaded the micro card for the Appalachian trail, enabled the map but the device will not use the map. If I connect the device and use Base Camp it finds it fine. Any ideas or help. I tried hard booting the device per Garmin instructions but nothing.

[fiddlehead]

I've found my Garmin Etrex 20 to be more reliable in heavy tree cover than my phone.
I like the phone app as it is easy (Geo tracker) and keeps records simply.
On my upcoming trip to the Balkans (Via Dinarica trail), there are no paper maps (except where it passes through national parks), so, GPX tracks or a phone app (outdoor active) is the way to find the route.
So, I will carry both.
(unfortunately)
Just ordered a solar charger.

[Rex Clifton]

I have a Garmin Montana 650T I loaded the micro card for the Appalachian trail, enabled the map but the device will not use the map. If I connect the device and use Base Camp it finds it fine. Any ideas or help. I tried hard booting the device per Garmin instructions but nothing.
I would guess that the problem your having is that the 650t comes with pre-loaded maps and the unit is defaulting to the 100k map. Try disabling the 100k map and I bet it will work.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Phlashlite]

I disabled all maps except the AT and still no luck. Garmin says my unit is shot.

[ChuckT]

Bummer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Rex Clifton]

So Im thinking of getting a Garmin Oregon 600 series for use during multiday trips.
Reasons for the purchase include:
Backtracking in case I get lost or am uncertain of the direction or trail I should be using.
I would also love to see the data of what I have done that day.
The ability to use others tracks seems like a fun idea.

Questions I have:
if I get the base 600 do I have to purchase the topo maps from garmin? are there free maps that are just as good or the same? (like from GPSfiledepot)
do topo maps actually have trails marked on them? Or is that hit or miss or not all?
Now is a great time to buy, Cabela's has been consistently selling the Oregon 600 for around $200. I have all of the Garmin 24k topos and also use the maps from GPSfiledepot, and they both work great. For trail hiking, I prefer the GPSfiledepot maps on the unit since they are lightweight and provide enough detail for marked trails. They are also less taxing on the battery and render much quicker. For off and sparsely marked trails, and for canoeing, I use the Garmin 24k topos.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Rex Clifton]

I disabled all maps except the AT and still no luck. Garmin says my unit is shot.
Did you back up the unit when you first got it? If so, you can try restoring. Maybe something got corrupted.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Phlashlite]

I did the reset they suggested and nothing. So basically I started from scratch. Do you use your Nexus for hiking. I may just try and use that and my paper maps, notgoing to take the Montana to see if it works when I get there.

[Rex Clifton]

I did the reset they suggested and nothing. So basically I started from scratch. Do you use your Nexus for hiking. I may just try and use that and my paper maps, notgoing to take the Montana to see if it works when I get there.
Yeah, I use the Guthook apps and they work well. A phone is probably a better choice for trail hiking since it can do so many things, plus the Montana is a brick. That being said, if you can render the 100k topos on the Montana, I doubt if it is defective. The microsd card slot seems to work since you can see the AT map in setup. Did you try using a small test map on a different sd card? I have had issues where I created a map in Mapinstall and, for whatever reason, if did not work.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk