View Full Version : Kinsman Notch to Franconia Notch in a day?
backpacker451
09-04-2015, 12:34
As the title says, I planning on trying this. Its slightly over 16 miles and looks like southbound is the better option. I have done a 20 miler in VT and it took me about 14 hours. I started at 4 am and hiked over 2 hours in the dark in the morning. There is more up and down, but 4 miles less. Planning it for this month. What do you guys think?
Doable if you're strong and get an early start. Days are already getting noticeably shorter.
The southern slope of South Kinsman is seriously steep. I think I'd rather go up it than down.
BirdBrain
09-04-2015, 12:48
Where did you do the 20 miler? What terrain? How old are you? How much weight will you be carrying? Are you in good shape?
If you are in good shape, have hiked hills like this, and slack pack; yes, this is doable. I have done 20 milers in the Whites slack packing. I am 54. I could do that walk. I am not in as good of shape as many that I see on the trail. I have seen many hikers that looked like they were in good shape, but were not prepared for the Whites. I have seen people older and heavier than me that were doing fine. Depending on the answers to my first 5 questions it could be yes or no.
If you could, I would try 25A to the Lyme-Dorchester Road as a shakedown. That is a 16 mile section that is a slightly easier and has less PUDS. You could learn a lot from that walk.
BB: the hike in question is 16 miles. I did 11 miles of that in a day, loaded with about 50 lbs. and hardware in my leg for a recently broken femur. I'm guessing a youngster traveling light should be able to handle the extra five miles, from Kinsman shelter down to the road.
BirdBrain
09-04-2015, 12:58
BB: the hike in question is 16 miles. I did 11 miles of that in a day, loaded with about 50 lbs. and hardware in my leg for a recently broken femur. I'm guessing a youngster traveling light should be able to handle the extra five miles, from Kinsman shelter down to the road.
I agree. I did that area too. I took in Cannon and the Kinsman Ridge Trail over the Cannon Balls on my way through. I think he can do it as well. I also agree that NoBo over the Kinsmans is to be preferred. Too many assumptions about his experience to say for sure though. I don't know him. Using my recent hikes in the Whites as a gauge, I think I would do his perspective walk in about 10 hours.
backpacker451
09-04-2015, 13:03
I did VT 9 near Bennington over glastenbury fire tower to USFS 71. I should mention that I will not be doing it alone, my dad will be with me. I'm 20 and he is 69, but I consider us in hiking shape. We have done SNP to the VT/NH border together over 3 years. I will be carrying a day pack and him nothing. I would like it to be shorter, but the hut is only 3 miles from the road and my dad can't carry a heavy pack.
Slo-go'en
09-04-2015, 13:05
That 16 miles could take as long as 16 hours. Maybe you could do it in 12, but I wouldn't count on it. If you have to do any of it in the dark (and it's very likely you will have to this time of year), that slows you way down.
But not knowing your age, level of fitness and experience hiking White Mountain trials, hard to really guess.
This stretch is somewhat harder than southern Vermont. Just sayin'.
BirdBrain
09-04-2015, 13:10
Okay. Given that experience, I will only add a few details. There are many PUDS in that section. South Kinsman is very steep. That climb is the only serious obstacle. The better view of the Franconia Ridge is from North Kinsman. Take the very short detour to the vista on North Kinsman. I believe given your last 3 years, you know better that I can guess. That stretch is not the toughest the Whites have to offer. Some complain about South Kinsman. The good news is that the really steep stuff is relatively short.
backpacker451
09-04-2015, 13:13
How would this compare from this to the VT state line?
Slo-go'en
09-04-2015, 13:17
I did VT 9 near Bennington over glastenbury fire tower to USFS 71. I should mention that I will not be doing it alone, my dad will be with me. I'm 20 and he is 69, but I consider us in hiking shape. We have done SNP to the VT/NH border together over 3 years. I will be carrying a day pack and him nothing. I would like it to be shorter, but the hut is only 3 miles from the road and my dad can't carry a heavy pack.
Except for the short climb up from VT 9, that section in Vermont is reasonably easy. What your looking at in NH is significantly harder. Given your dad's age and the need to go slow and careful over the rock scrambles, I'm going to stick with the 16 hour guess. Since camping at Kinsman pond to break it up into two days doesn't sound like an option you may want to reconsider this, especially if the weather isn't 100% perfect that day.
I would contact The Notch Hostel...newly opened this year. They may be able to slack you on this stretch. Their website is http://notchhostel.com/
BirdBrain
09-04-2015, 13:25
Except for the short climb up from VT 9, that section in Vermont is reasonably easy. What your looking at in NH is significantly harder. Given your dad's age and the need to go slow and careful over the rock scrambles, I'm going to stick with the 16 hour guess. Since camping at Kinsman pond to break it up into two days doesn't sound like an option you may want to reconsider this, especially if the weather isn't 100% perfect that day.
I am waiting for the accusation that you are too negative again :D
But ya', the age of his father and the concern that he can't carry a heavy pack gives me pause too. Your 16 hour estimate is likely closer than my original guess.
backpacker451
09-04-2015, 13:28
So far it seems like maybe the best plan is to do the trail up to that point and see what our bodies are telling us. Is it general opinion that from this section south is easier and if we decide to do it, that northbound would be better?
BirdBrain
09-04-2015, 13:32
So far it seems like maybe the best plan is to do the trail up to that point and see what our bodies are telling us. Is it general opinion that from this section south is easier and if we decide to do it, that northbound would be better?
If you are doing the trail up to that point (I assume NoBo from the border), the 9 miles over Moosilauke will tell you something. :) I did the Kinsmans SoBo. I would rather have done it NoBo.
backpacker451
09-04-2015, 13:39
Thanks for all the info. If we complete it and I can remember, I try to report back.
That 16 miles could take as long as 16 hours. Maybe you could do it in 12, but I wouldn't count on it. If you have to do any of it in the dark (and it's very likely you will have to this time of year), that slows you way down.
But not knowing your age, level of fitness and experience hiking White Mountain trials, hard to really guess.
doomsayer! : )
i did it in a day, sobo. started at 6am, done by 6pm, maybe earlier. once youre out of kinsman notch there are a good 4-5 miles or tail thats more like the areas south of moosilauke than what you typically think of as the white mountains. then you south kinsman and its a mess the rest of the way to lonesome lake, then a couple easy last couple miles. my advice is get an early start, get out of the notch as quick as you can, then dont dilly dally on the easy part. crank out those few easy miles as fast as you can so you have more time for the hard stuff.
doomsayer! : )
i did it in a day, sobo. started at 6am, done by 6pm, maybe earlier. once youre out of kinsman notch there are a good 4-5 miles or tail thats more like the areas south of moosilauke than what you typically think of as the white mountains. then you south kinsman and its a mess the rest of the way to lonesome lake, then a couple easy last couple miles. my advice is get an early start, get out of the notch as quick as you can, then dont dilly dally on the easy part. crank out those few easy miles as fast as you can so you have more time for the hard stuff.
sorry, meant nobo!
joshuasdad
09-04-2015, 17:55
I did this section NOBO in 2013 in about 24 hours, including an overnight. Count on 1 mph throughout, except for perhaps the first and last two miles (near the roads) SOBO, where you might be able to average 2 mph. I personally would leave before dawn to get to Lonesome Lake, so that you can hike most of the rest during daylight. Vermont really does not compare...I pretty much averaged 2 mph there.
eriksprince
08-17-2017, 15:19
I know it has been a while but I am curious how your hike went of Kinsman went as I am looking to do something similar. Any details would be appreciated.
peakbagger
08-17-2017, 15:49
I have done a very similar day hike in the opposite direction although I started on the Easton side of the mountain rather than Franconia Notch. The ascent up the North Kinsman is quite similar from either side of the ridge although Cascade Brook trail is bit longer. Unlike many folks I prefer going down steep stuff and wanted to get the hard mileage done early. It took me around 10 hours with daypack. I had stashed a bike in Kinsman Notch and slowly biked back to my car at the Mt Kinsman trailhead. As noted there are lots of PUDS after descending South Kinsman. A note about the south face of South Kinsman. Its relentlessly steep with about a half mile of near vertical boulder climbing. The AT down the north face of Moosilaukee (Beaver Brook Trail) is steeper but most Nobos are descending it so the climb up South Kinsman is a NOBOs first real introduction to white mountains trails. The climb up Glencliff trail on the south side of Mooosilaukee has far more vertical gain but compared to the south face of South Kinsman its far easier.
hikernutcasey
08-21-2017, 11:51
I plan on slacking this section by staying at the Notch hostel at the tail end of a trip from Killington to Franconia next month. Gotta say I'm a little worried I can do it in the 10 hour window they give you between drop off and pick up. I guess we just do the best we can and if we have to pay them to come pick us up later in the evening then so be it. I don't think we will have a problem making it but just in the allotted time. Anyone done this with the Notch hostel?
It's doable if you are young, fast, nimble, and in good shape. This is a very tough section, IMO.
The Notch leaves the Hostel at 7:30, then drops you off 0.7 mile from the trail. That's as close as they can get. So you won't get started on the trail until after 8:00am.
Be careful not to overestimate your mileage in the Whites.
hikernutcasey
08-21-2017, 12:27
It's doable if you are young, fast, nimble, and in good shape. This is a very tough section, IMO.
The Notch leaves the Hostel at 7:30, then drops you off 0.7 mile from the trail. That's as close as they can get. So you won't get started on the trail until after 8:00am.
Be careful not to overestimate your mileage in the Whites.Thanks Deacon, we have done Franconia to Gorham with full pack weight and did 11 -14 miles per day. That's why I figure we can slack the 16 but like you said with the extra .7 and with their timetable I'm worried about making the pickup time. We will see I guess.
pkinnetz
08-27-2017, 14:23
I'd think twice about slacking this section. What are your backup plans if its just plain too tough? And you will not be able to stop where ever you drop since the Whites have very strict rules and regs about where you camp. At the least plan on carrying more than minimal gear to carry you thru the night if you just can't make it. Walking in the dark might be very treacherous on those steep parts. And what parts of the whites aren't steep?
I slacked it, took a little over 8 hours. We were pretty beat afterwards and we're thrilled to get back into town, but it almost seemed like a waste of a hotel room because we got back later than we wanted too and we were so tired
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hikernutcasey
09-27-2017, 14:03
I slacked it, took a little over 8 hours. We were pretty beat afterwards and we're thrilled to get back into town, but it almost seemed like a waste of a hotel room because we got back later than we wanted too and we were so tired
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJust back from New Hampshire and I am happy to report that we made the slack across Kinsman. It was definitely difficult and took 9 1/2 hours but it is doable. I'm not sure I could do it with a full pack on and glad I didn't have to. The climb on the south side of Kinsman was as hard as anything else I saw in the Whites in my opinion. Beautiful and underestimated part of the Whites if you ask me.
illabelle
09-27-2017, 15:54
Just back from New Hampshire and I am happy to report that we made the slack across Kinsman. It was definitely difficult and took 9 1/2 hours but it is doable. I'm not sure I could do it with a full pack on and glad I didn't have to. The climb on the south side of Kinsman was as hard as anything else I saw in the Whites in my opinion. Beautiful and underestimated part of the Whites if you ask me.
Have you climbed Katahdin yet? Just wondering how it compares.
We slacked hut-to-hut SOBO from Pinkham to Franconia last year, and will be back up there in 2018/2019 to finish up NH. I think we'll probably try to slack the Kinsman to Franconia section, but it will definitely be a stretch for us. We'll need more than 9.5 hours. We'll have to start before dawn and like pkinnetz said a couple posts up the page, we'll have to carry more than minimal gear just in case.
hikernutcasey
09-27-2017, 16:03
Have you climbed Katahdin yet? Just wondering how it compares.
We slacked hut-to-hut SOBO from Pinkham to Franconia last year, and will be back up there in 2018/2019 to finish up NH. I think we'll probably try to slack the Kinsman to Franconia section, but it will definitely be a stretch for us. We'll need more than 9.5 hours. We'll have to start before dawn and like pkinnetz said a couple posts up the page, we'll have to carry more than minimal gear just in case.I have not climbed Katahdin (saving that for last) so I cannot offer you any comparisons. Just my opinion but if you slack Kinsman I would recommend doing it south to north as I would rather climb that south side rather than descend it. Also, it's more total elevation gain doing it from north to south.
We pushed all day but didn't kill ourselves. Took 30 minutes for lunch and a few breaks to take in the views.
illabelle
09-27-2017, 16:10
I have not climbed Katahdin (saving that for last) so I cannot offer you any comparisons. Just my opinion but if you slack Kinsman I would recommend doing it south to north as I would rather climb that south side rather than descend it. Also, it's more total elevation gain doing it from north to south.
We pushed all day but didn't kill ourselves. Took 30 minutes for lunch and a few breaks to take in the views.
Yes, I plan on heeding advice from this thread and doing it NOBO. For the same reason, we'll go over Moosilauke SOBO. Going up Katahdin was a challenge, but coming down is what wore me out. Strange but true.
Yes, I plan on heeding advice from this thread and doing it NOBO. For the same reason, we'll go over Moosilauke SOBO. Going up Katahdin was a challenge, but coming down is what wore me out. Strange but true.
Its not so strange. The descents are what usually wipe me out, no matter the trail. I can usually pace myself going uphill. Going downhill, I’m fighting gravity and the natural inclination to lean forward.
Have you climbed Katahdin yet? Just wondering how it compares.
IMO, Katahdin is a little more difficult. However, the hard part on Katahdin can be climbed in just 2 - 2.5 hours. From KSC, it’s about 4 hours to the summit.
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illabelle
09-28-2017, 15:17
IMO, Katahdin is a little more difficult. However, the hard part on Katahdin can be climbed in just 2 - 2.5 hours. From KSC, it’s about 4 hours to the summit.
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Thank you for the reply. Helps us know what we're signing up for.
You don't say what 20 mile segment you did on the LT. Some 20 mile LT segments are considerably more strenuous than others. Some LT segments a much faster pace can be established.
Take your care establishing your footwork on that 16 mile White Mts slack pack. It can be slippery. It will be a decent challenge.
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The NOBO ascent of South Kinsman is one of the steepest climbs I recall anywhere on the AT. I'm talking about the climb that begins a few miles north of Eliza Brook shelter. Fortunately the super-steep bit is only a thousand feet or so of vertical. I did it eons ago, with an external frame pack and at least 40 lbs. of load. Ugh.
And then there's Beaver Brook Trail, the NOBO descent off Moosilauke. Be especially careful if it's wet. I'd hesitate to call it "dangerous" as I've done it a number of times. But yeah, you'll want to take it slow and pay attention.
illabelle
09-28-2017, 22:13
The NOBO ascent of South Kinsman is one of the steepest climbs I recall anywhere on the AT. I'm talking about the climb that begins a few miles north of Eliza Brook shelter. Fortunately the super-steep bit is only a thousand feet or so of vertical. I did it eons ago, with an external frame pack and at least 40 lbs. of load. Ugh.
And then there's Beaver Brook Trail, the NOBO descent off Moosilauke. Be especially careful if it's wet. I'd hesitate to call it "dangerous" as I've done it a number of times. But yeah, you'll want to take it slow and pay attention.
I was curious, so I pulled out my AT Guide to have a look. Moosilauke doesn't surprise me. I've seen pictures, I know it's a beast.
But I hadn't really looked at the elevation profile for the S Kinsman climb - until now. I'm puzzled. The profile of S Kinsman looks kinda ordinary by White Mtn standards, not easy (nothing in NH is easy) but not so different from going over Lafayette or Washington. What makes it different? Of course, I've learned not to trust the elevation profiles. They're useful, but they tell a lot of lies. Maybe this is one of them? Eliza Brook Shelter to S Kinsman is 2.5 miles. So where is this climb that "begins a few miles north of [EB] shelter"? Is it the 1-mile stretch from Harrington Pond to S Kinsman?
As I recall, there's a moderate uphill leaving EB shelter, and even a flat section with a marsh/pond to the left (northbound.) The steep stuff begins north of that marsh.
What makes it different is that it's all rock scrambling, over open rock faces.
I must confess it was a very long time ago. It was late in the day, I'd started from Kinsman Notch, and I was carrying a very heavy pack.
Even so -- it's not just my hazy memory. My ancient "Philosophers Guide" has a specific and amusing warning about that particular ascent.
As I recall, there's a moderate uphill leaving EB shelter, and even a flat section with a marsh/pond to the left (northbound.) The steep stuff begins north of that marsh.
What makes it different is that it's all rock scrambling, over open rock faces.
I must confess it was a very long time ago. It was late in the day, I'd started from Kinsman Notch, and I was carrying a very heavy pack.
Even so -- it's not just my hazy memory. My ancient "Philosophers Guide" has a specific and amusing warning about that particular ascent.
the climb of south kinsman going nobo caught me off guard too and i also found it surprisingly difficult, though in a fun way.
my memory of it from about 7 years ago, and probably part of the reason it doesnt look that bad on the profile, is that basically theres a straight up vertical section thats probably only 200 feet or so of elevation. it likely doesnt show on a profile at the scale the maps are printed at. you can not get up it without using your hands extensively, and if i recall correctly there is no rebar or anything of the sort to assist.
peakbagger
09-29-2017, 06:26
I guess I am weird, I like going down the steep stuff rather than going up it plus getting it out of the way early in the hike is my preference.
illabelle
09-30-2017, 20:10
I guess I am weird, I like going down the steep stuff rather than going up it plus getting it out of the way early in the hike is my preference.
I'd prefer to get it out of the way earlier. But when it comes to a seriously steep section where you need to use your hands to climb, I like to see where I'm going. No eyes on my feet, so up it is.
I remember that day being hard but I can hardly remember the climb itself.
Shoot sometimes I stop and think, damn, what was North Carolina like? Seems like it was so long ago.
That said I'd call Katahdin easier than the hard climbs in the Whites.
Once you get above the tree line it's pretty awesome, then it becomes downright fun. I had to slow myself because I'd be panting and instead of resting for a sec rock hip over three boulders and dash upwards.
Couldn't stop myself
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Twas long ago but I was not intimidated at all by Hunt Trail up Katahdin. And somehow I did it pretty darn quickly -- must have had a lot of adrenaline in me. Or maybe because I was just carrying a little day pack so I felt light.
Twas long ago but I was not intimidated at all by Hunt Trail up Katahdin. And somehow I did it pretty darn quickly -- must have had a lot of adrenaline in me. Or maybe because I was just carrying a little day pack so I felt light.
Those day packs were wonderful
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