View Full Version : What the heck is that? Or, help me identify strange things noticed along the trail
Hi everyone, first post.
I've been section hiking for several years, and it seems I often find something unusual along the way.
Can anyone explain what those capped pipes are? They look like iron water pipe, are usually around 3 inches in diameter, stick up about 4 inches, and are capped. They usually have a hole on the side about ground level. They stick straight up out of the ground. I ran across 3 of them this past weekend, between Allen Gap and Devils Fork Gap, NC.
My guess is a property line marker, but that seems odd out in the middle of a National Forest.
Does anyone know for sure?
-Stubby
pyroman53
09-08-2015, 14:16
First guess is a survey marker. Not very familiar with eastern stuff, but in the west those could be section and quarter section markers installed by surveyors, in some cases 50 years ago. I suspect they could be found in the east as well. They can also be found marking high point elevations, which I have seen many times in the east.
Ashepabst
09-08-2015, 15:00
there used to be a resort up there... could have been the remains of their water infrastructure.
Ashepabst
09-08-2015, 15:00
up there = camp creek bald (or whatever it's called)
First guess is a survey marker.
I wondered, but I also saw several "standard" survey markers with the surveyor organization info and some pertinent numbers. I couple years back I saw one from the TVA dated 1941.
I guess these could have once had a little plate on top with the useful information on it, that had since been knocked off or something. Come to think of it, at least one of them was pretty close to a relatively new survey marker.
Thanks for the assist.
BirdBrain
09-08-2015, 16:06
there used to be a resort up there... could have been the remains of their water infrastructure.
Air vents for drain pipes or sewer system?
up there = camp creek bald (or whatever it's called)Ok, one of them was definitely on Camp Creek Bald... and I saw no other sign of a building, but I guess depending on the construction technique and materials, I wouldn't. Interesting. Another of them was up on Big Butt mountain.
This also makes me wonder about long ago homesteaders as well. So I checked wikipedia, Pisgah national forest was created in 1916. And then determine that iron water pipes were in use in the 1800s and 1st half of the 1900s... although I suspect most of the regular people in that area did not.
Weird to think that any of what seems like unspoiled wilderness was once developed and inhabited.
Traveler
09-08-2015, 16:12
A photo might help. They could be a lot of things, from water infrastructure as Ashepabst suggested, to something underground like measuring equipment that needed electrical wires to it, venting of something underground, pollution tracking, or just simple junk pipe property boundary markers.
Another strange thing seen on the trail... Ice hair.
I've done a bit of winter hiking in the southern AT, and I will often see these patched of what seems like hair growing up out of the ground. And it is ice. The strands are quite separate, and very tightly packed - think locks of hair. And they usually come up straight out of the ground.
I know "what" it is - its ice. But, how is this formed? They can get as high as 2 or 3 inches.
Ok, had to switch browsers to get an image up.
31920
nsherry61
09-08-2015, 16:32
I know "what" it is - its ice. But, how is this formed? They can get as high as 2 or 3 inches.
Ice crystals on fungal hypha. Totally awesome.
nsherry61
09-08-2015, 16:34
Old vent shafts for Hades.
BirdBrain
09-08-2015, 16:46
That looks like a threaded cap. Hard to see on my phone. It was likely not originally a vent. If it is a threaded cap, it is likely a fill pipe, not a vent pipe. The hole could have been drilled into it after it was abandoned so as to not allow pressure build up. I am wildly guessing. Like I said, hard to see on my phone.
Ice crystals on fungal hypha. Totally awesome.
Thanks! That's it! Here is a link to a cool video of it coming out of a rotting branch. I guess there is a lot of fungus in the dirt along the AT (not surprising, considering the number of mushrooms I see).
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-07/egu-him072115.php
Ice crystals on fungal hypha. Totally awesome.
Since you got me started, found more links. Another site calls it Needle Ice when it comes up out of the ground.
Link: http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/needle/
Thanks again!
gsingjane
09-08-2015, 18:48
Or it could be frost heave. That's when water in the layer of ground near the surface freezes, crystallizes, and pushes the earth up and out. It's neat to see but not so to walk or run upon.
Jane in CT
nsherry61
09-08-2015, 19:17
Or it could be frost heave. . .
This hair ice is longer and thinner fibers of ice than the ice crystal expansion that makes up frost heaves. That being said, fungus is everywhere and a significant part of pretty much all soils, so maybe it's involved in some frost heaving also.
Another Kevin
09-08-2015, 21:47
Another strange thing seen on the trail... Ice hair.
I've done a bit of winter hiking in the southern AT, and I will often see these patched of what seems like hair growing up out of the ground. And it is ice. The strands are quite separate, and very tightly packed - think locks of hair. And they usually come up straight out of the ground.
I know "what" it is - its ice. But, how is this formed? They can get as high as 2 or 3 inches.
If you're at an altitude where snow forms, then the water will crystallize the same way on any surface. It will sometimes form needles, and sometimes elaborate feathery formations. Since it's on a surface, it doesn't fall out of the air while it's still small, the way snowflakes do. But 'rime', as it's called, is essentially the same stuff as snow.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xlt7r8htbXc/VJilrrSxZ5I/AAAAAAAAlnk/bidnglFfkXI/s800-no/DSC_3842.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-43DJ5CnGU0A/VJilqVXRLSI/AAAAAAAAlYQ/dtc4_Xhb8Dk/s800-no/DSC_3840.jpg
I've fog moving through widely spaced deciduous trees. At night. Amazing. Unforgettable.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Another pipe picture just south of Damascus31924
It looks like an old spring borehole, or possibly an old well that was capped off. I have a larger diameter pipe like that in my front yard. The second photo sure looks like an old well cap to me.
The Cleaner
09-09-2015, 07:57
There are several pipe markers along this section.At one time there were several parcels of private land that came right up to the AT.The USFS now owns all of these lands and these were old boundary markers.
Thanks. I'm going with this explanation, I saw a lot of other signs of previous property lines, including a barely-there section of old barbwire fence and a very large tree with a Bearing Tree sign on it.
Although vents from Hades makes some sense after climbing north from Allen Gap all day...
gpburdelljr
09-09-2015, 13:31
One name for hairlike ice coming from the ground is needle-ice. Here is a link describing how it is formed, with a photo.
http://www.sierrapotomac.org/W_Needham/NeedleIce_070123.htm
The pipes look like piezometers used to measure ground water levels. The water level can be measured manually by removing the cap and dropping a probe attached to a measuring tape down to water level. Also a water level probe can be put down the pipe and a data-logger put at the surface for continuous data over time ( the small hole in the side is for the data-logger wires). I've seen many piezometers that look like the photos in my career as a civil engineer. I've also seen many types of survey corner markers, but never a capped pipe.
( the small hole in the side is for the data-logger wires). I've seen many piezometers that look like the photos in my career as a civil engineer. I've also seen many types of survey corner markers, but never a capped pipe.
Interesting, thanks. I had wondered about how they all had holes, and I assumed they must have just rusted out a hole or 2 at ground level, but that would be very coincidental...
So, you are saying that these are common all over the place, monitoring groundwater levels?
I'll start keeping an eye out around town.
Thanks!
[QUOTE=gpburdelljr;2002132]One name for hairlike ice coming from the ground is needle-ice. Here is a link describing how it is formed, with a photo.
http://www.sierrapotomac.org/W_Needham/NeedleIce_070123.htm
QUOTE]
I've only seen the thinner angel hair ice a couple of times on tree branches. I thought they were the exact same thing, but today I learned they are a little different.
Moral of that story - if you don't hike the trail in the winter, you're missing out.
gpburdelljr
09-09-2015, 16:00
Interesting, thanks. I had wondered about how they all had holes, and I assumed they must have just rusted out a hole or 2 at ground level, but that would be very coincidental...
So, you are saying that these are common all over the place, monitoring groundwater levels?
I'll start keeping an eye out around town.
Thanks!
You will only find them where an engineer or hydrologist has a need to monitor groundwater levels. We used them on large industrial plant sites.
Next thing to help me identify: a sound from my first section ever. 8/1/09
Location: Stover Creek Shelter (just a little north of Springer Mtn.)
It rained hard that night, was glad to be in a shelter. The rain would come down in buckets for about 30 minutes, then stop for about 30 minutes. Then repeat. All night long.
In between deluges, I would hear a distant cry/growl/bellow sound. It sounded about 1 mile away, judging from the echo distortion. It was deep, and loud, and like nothing I've ever heard. It sounded most like a really big guy bellowing out a sustained cry of anguish - really, the pathos in it was heart-rending. Like, if the maker of the sound had just lost its life-mate or something.
I rattled through a lot of thoughts - wolf? not in the area. Coyote? I've heard them, but they never sounded like that, much lower register than I've heard them do. Deer? Never heard of them making that kind of noise.
I ran through other thoughts trying to think of everything... owl? frog? bug of some sort? No, unless there is some really unusual specie up there I've never heard of.
Thought of maybe a baying hound, which might could produce the pathos, if it was unhappy about being left out in the rain... but, there was some deepness and some gravel in the sound that just didn't sound like a bay to me.
Bear? I don't know, would they roar in the middle of the night like that?
What do bear roars sound like?
Pedaling Fool
09-11-2015, 16:06
Bear? I don't know, would they roar in the middle of the night like that?
What do bear roars sound like?Read thru this, it includes some soundtracks. http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/communication.html
WingedMonkey
09-11-2015, 18:23
The pipes look like piezometers used to measure ground water levels. The water level can be measured manually by removing the cap and dropping a probe attached to a measuring tape down to water level. Also a water level probe can be put down the pipe and a data-logger put at the surface for continuous data over time ( the small hole in the side is for the data-logger wires). I've seen many piezometers that look like the photos in my career as a civil engineer. I've also seen many types of survey corner markers, but never a capped pipe.
Agree...or as we call them "monitoring wells".
It's a reminder that the original laws establishing the National Forests was to protect and restore water sheds.
nsherry61
09-11-2015, 18:43
One name for hairlike ice coming from the ground is needle-ice. Here is a link describing how it is formed, with a photo.
http://www.sierrapotomac.org/W_Needham/NeedleIce_070123.htm
This is actually a different structure that the original image. Hair ice is much finer strands than this "needle-ice". I find the needle-ice quite common in dirt by comparison to the really fine filamentous hair ice. The understanding of the mechanism behind hair ice has just, this year, been well described for the first time in science literature.
gpburdelljr
09-12-2015, 00:49
This is actually a different structure that the original image. Hair ice is much finer strands than this "needle-ice". I find the needle-ice quite common in dirt by comparison to the really fine filamentous hair ice. The understanding of the mechanism behind hair ice has just, this year, been well described for the first time in science literature.
The OP first described ice hairs coming out of the ground, not branches, and never posted a picture of it. He later posted a video he found on line of hair ice forming on a branch.
Toolumpy
09-13-2015, 21:01
I did see a pipe with a cap on it, held on by a brass bolt. This was one near Newfound Gap and are used to access a shut off valve (4 ft below the surface)for a water service in a residential area We have the same type in Portage Mi. Can believe water would have been piped to the Gap.
Read thru this, it includes some soundtracks.
Thanks.
While I did not find the sound I heard, I did hear some sounds that make it sound like a black bear is capable of that sound.
I spent some time trying to find some recording of some of the other sounds black bears make, like a female bear bereft of her cub... but not luck yet.
Still, I'm satisfied that it must have been a black bear. Very cool, thanks!