View Full Version : Need your advice?
ironbutt
09-10-2015, 10:57
Back in the 70's I hiked part of the AT, I was 19. I carried a army shelter half and a GI sleeping bag and c-rations on that hike.......I have been dreaming of finishing that hike for years......In 2009 I was in a airplane crash that left me paralyzed from the waist down. I have cadaver vertebra in my back with steel rods & screws. Slowly I have been recovering, regaining feeling and strenght back in my legs.
I was in hospital for 5 months. Then 5 more months to learn how to walk again. My dream is what has pushed me to regain all that I can. I currently have 80% feeling back in my left leg and 100% back in right leg. I favor my left leg when walking. When I carry a day pack walking local woods a cane helps in unevern terrain. My back bothers me sleeping in a tent, but I'm painfree in our fish net hammock.
I'm currently walking 1-2 miles a day working towards 5-10 miles by Jan. I am also working with weights for upper body..........I want to do at least a section hike starting at Springer to Fontana dam in April. Then maybe Fontana onward ??? I realize I will probably be slower than everyone else. I am determined to try, my doctor says as long as my back pack doesn't exceed 50 pounds I should be okay. I'm 61 now. I'm currently retired , so I have time on my hands now. I tell my wife the AT completion is the last item on my bucket list...
My wife asked me to post this for you folks with experience to help her decide yea or nay? Please don't sugar coat this for my benefit??? She's a smart woman and knows bull sh$t when she see it.
This is my first post, might be my last, either way I have enjoyed this Forum and wish good luck to all my fellow hikers!!!
Ironbutt
50 lbs. on your back -- nobody, but nobody does that any more unless their name is Tipi Walter. Try for half that, or less.
Do what you're doing... learn from experience, tackle the easy stuff first. Shenandoah National Park has some of the mellowest trail on the whole AT, and is extremely accessible. And quite scenic as well.
I think that you should try a small section hike to see how the mountains affect your walking. Sleeping in a hammock should not be a problem?
Good luck.
HooKooDooKu
09-10-2015, 11:19
So what's the problem? (or question)
Here's the only limitations I see in your story:
1. Uses a cane
Well, even people at 100% use treking poles. Move from one cane to a pair of poles and you should find things easier going.
2. 50 pounds Max
With modern gear, you should never need to come close to 50 pounds. Depending upon what all you carry, your pack should be able to stay around 20 to 40 pounds (depending upon how much food you bring) and much lighter if you use Ultra Light methods. About your only limitation there is that ultra lighters that have packs as low as around 10 pounds use things like a tarp as shelter sleeping on the ground. The hammock will keep you from being able to drop quite that low... but there isn't any reason you should ever need to go close to 50 pounds.
3. Back problems Sleeping in a Tent but can use a hammock.
The only place a hammock might be a limiting factor is in Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Park rules require that you stay in the shelter (hammocks allowed in certain situations, my might be able to get a medical exception).
4. Working towards 5-10 miles per day.
At 5 mpd, you won't hike the whole AT in one season. But that doesn't matter if you are going to be a section hiker.
bigcranky
09-10-2015, 11:21
Wow, good for you on the recovery. Some random thoughts:
Get a pair of "trekking poles" and start using them now on your daily walks. Just the cheap ones at Wal Mart are fine for now. Get used to using two poles for balance, and figure out how to use the wrist straps properly so your weight is on the straps and you don't have to grip so tightly. Poles are very useful for many hikers, especially those of us past a certain age.... :)
No problem keeping your pack below 50 pounds -- really, a fully loaded pack for summer hiking on the AT should weigh 30 or less. That's without spending a ton of money, too. Though you'll want to be prepared to spend on quality stuff to start with.
I have met and hiked with many older hikers, some of them twenty years older than you. Yeah, they are slow, but they get there eventually. Spent the night at a shelter in Vermont last summer with two 72 year old hikers, one of whom was doing a long section with a bag pack. They were not fast, but they were fine.
Springer to Fontana is a good section. It's not easy, there are some tough climbs even from the start, but it's a beautiful hike in late April or early May. (Early April will be very crowded and you'll need to be prepared for cold weather.) If you can average ten miles per day, it's about a three week hike, but don't get caught up in the mileage race -- get there when you get there. There are plenty of places to get off the trail and resupply every three or four days, even if you're only making 8 miles per day.
Hammock: there are some great choices in hiking hammocks, complete with bug netting and a rain fly/tarp. I've been using the same Hennessy Hammock for ten years, but there are plenty of others.
Good luck with your recovery and getting back on the trail.
"Trekking poles" for sure. I am 61 as well, as one of the biggest improvements for me in my hiking, has been to actually use the poles to help climb and take pressure off my legs on downhills. Using your upper body to help your legs out, will make the hike much more enjoyable. Hiking poles are not just for balance.
daddytwosticks
09-10-2015, 16:22
I'm just blown away you have been able to recover from such an accident. Good luck and Godspeed with your endeavor. :)
Good luck on your recovery. I would shoot for a 10lb base which may require a bit of practice to make right. I would also do shorter resupplies and I would expect you could keep pack weight below 20lbs. Your water carry may be a bit more depending on how short your daily mileage may be.
squeezebox
09-10-2015, 17:11
Maybe consider a supported hike. It should be carrying less wt. and have someone around to help you.
rocketsocks
09-10-2015, 17:16
Wow, that is some story Iron butt, take care of that spine, don't want any compression issues. You may wanna spend the dough to go uber lightweight, not cheap, but can be done. Good luck.
ironbutt
09-11-2015, 08:18
Reading the post so far. I am making a plan to do a beginner hike in the Shenandoah Park like Rafe suggested maybe in December for a week to work out the kinks. I will invest in light equipment and definately some hiking poles. Shooting for a weight of no more than 25-30 lbs backpack weight. I like the idea of starting after the crowd so maybe April 15th at Springer would be a good start?
ironbutt
09-11-2015, 08:31
My grandson e-mailed me that he would hike the shenandoah part of the AT with me when he is on Christmas vacation and wants to join me where ever I am on the AT when he gets his summer break from school. Thanks to everyone for your advice...
One thing I failed to mention in my first post is the doctors told my family that I would never walk again. I would be in a wheel chair the rest of my life...
Maybe consider a supported hike. It should be carrying less wt. and have someone around to help you.
howlinmadman
09-11-2015, 08:39
Check out hammockforums.net for advice on anything to do with hammocks and associated gear. There is a wealth of info there for everything from hammocks to tarps to insulation!
So what's the problem? (or question)
3. Back problems Sleeping in a Tent but can use a hammock.
The only place a hammock might be a limiting factor is in Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Park rules require that you stay in the shelter (hammocks allowed in certain situations, my might be able to get a medical exception).
Isn't the rule that you stay in a shelter "when available"? Start off in the bubble and plan to arrive at shelters late - problem solved.
Given your situation I'd suggest spending a few hundred dollars and buying the lightest gear you can find...as others have said, spending a bit of money you should have no problem cutting your pack weight to 25 pounds or less. That said, I think you have the right approach...start at Springer, set a goal for Fontana Dam and then see what happens from there. In 2002 I spent 4 months hiking and only made it 850 miles to Waynesboro. So maybe you're a little bit slower than everyone else...so what? You'll probably have a blast. And you'll know when its time to get off the trail -- when you're not having much fun anymore.
Water Rat
09-11-2015, 12:07
This post might not prove to be helpful, but I did just want to congratulate you on your recovery! The human body is absolutely amazing in what it can do!
You strike me as someone who has amazing willpower - and will work hard to accomplish their goals. That will serve you well on the trail. However, there will be setbacks - Everyone has them. The only thing I can think to add to the previous advice is this - Be willing to be flexible with your plans. As I am sure you already know, some days are better than others. Go with it. If you need to do a shorter day, then do it. Allow yourself that freedom. Your hike will be so much more enjoyable for setting that as a ground rule. Hey, the worst thing about it is you get more time to just enjoy time in nature! :) Rest when you need to. Hike when it feels right. Enjoy your hike! Make memories and know that no matter how far you get, you have already done so much more than was ever predicted.
You strike me as someone who has amazing willpower - and will work hard to accomplish their goals.
I agree.
Take the sound advice already given and go hike. Hike as far and as fast as you decide you are able/willing. Maybe that's the entire trail, maybe its just the first section, but either way you are clearly victorious.
I would be interested in following a journal of your hike if you decide to share one, let us know!
Best of luck to you.
Clearly you have the determination, which is the biggest challenge for most of us. If you can get through Georgia, you can make it all the way. I hope you do decide to go, and I would be happy to join you for a day or two (as I am not retired quite yet) if you want some company. Same age and also a hammocker, and not worried about miles per day. I'm within a couple hours of any AT access point in Georgia. Even if you don't want the company (you will probably have PLENTY anyway), give me a holler if you need any logistical support.
booney_1
09-13-2015, 09:48
You should check out the "modern" sleeping pads for using shelters in the smokies. The "Big Agnes" line has light weight sleeping pads that are over 4" thick. Also "modern" air mattresses are much nicer than the pool floats that were available in the 60's and 70's. Check REI. Many of these are as comfortable as a bed.
I started the AT in 1974 and completed it in 2004; 40 year plan. It took many trips (I live on the West Coast), but I did it once bite at a time. You can do this too. Pack weight doesn't need to be more than 25 lbs with today's gear. My advice would be to get in shape before you start your hike, don't count on it happening while you hike. We older folks just don't heal fast enough for that to work as well as it does for youthful hikers.
Maybe consider a supported hike. It should be carrying less wt. and have someone around to help you.
HYOH first & foremost. Doubt that a thru hike is advisable for you , hey I'm not you. That care of your body and push it to the limit and bail when you need to. Supported hike, section hiking, blue-blazing or whatever, it's all legit. HYOH.
ironbutt
09-14-2015, 09:57
I showed my wife the posts this weekend Her thoughts were that it seemed to her that I would be in good hands for my beginning hike at Springer this spring. After skater & eveready reached out to me she said she felt better about me being in the wilderness alone.. Kinda hard to explain to her that actually, I would be surrounded by alot of hikers throughout my hike, probably this spring far more than the trail has experienced in the past. Considering my disabilities I am going to try and with skater along part of the way he can help me evaluate my goals. In my mind sitting here I want to do springer to Va. this year. Eveready has offered to let me tag along with him in his hike further up the trail. Now I know I have some preparation to do...
Clearly you have the determination, which is the biggest challenge for most of us. If you can get through Georgia, you can make it all the way. I hope you do decide to go, and I would be happy to join you for a day or two (as I am not retired quite yet) if you want some company. Same age and also a hammocker, and not worried about miles per day. I'm within a couple hours of any AT access point in Georgia. Even if you don't want the company (you will probably have PLENTY anyway), give me a holler if you need any logistical support.
Tundracamper
09-14-2015, 17:51
I suggest you contact the rangers in the Smokies and explain your medical condition. I for one would really like to know if they would not grant you an exemption from the shelter rule and allow you to sleep in a hammock. If they balk, run to the media. There is no need for that kind of rule for someone that has worked so hard to get to the point you are at. You should not be expected to sleep on a wooden plank!!
Starting at Springer pushes off that issue. I suggest you take your time and see how the first few legs go. There are some pretty steep sections in there and you don't want to hurt yourself by pushing too hard too early.
Good luck!! I hope it all works out.
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rocketsocks
09-14-2015, 18:13
I suggest you contact the rangers in the Smokies and explain your medical condition. I for one would really like to know if they would not grant you an exemption from the shelter rule and allow you to sleep in a hammock. If they balk, run to the media. There is no need for that kind of rule for someone that has worked so hard to get to the point you are at. You should not be expected to sleep on a wooden plank!!
Starting at Springer pushes off that issue. I suggest you take your time and see how the first few legs go. There are some pretty steep sections in there and you don't want to hurt yourself by pushing too hard too early.
Good luck!! I hope it all works out.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYour just kiddin' around right?
plexusbritt
09-16-2015, 08:03
Just popping my head in to tip my hat to you. People with the grit to overcome are the backbone of the hiking community.
Also, if I can help in any way with camping in a hammock, shoot me a message. It's a different world than a tent. The hammock forums provide more info than you could ever want as well and the members are just like here-open, friendly, and fast to advise.
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ironbutt
09-16-2015, 09:26
I am leaning towards the warbonnet XLM double layer with a insertiable pad and use a 20 degreee down sleeping bag. My wife wants me to get a "Nube" as she likes it as a hammock. She asked me to wait as people will want to get me something for christmas. So I don't know if she has already purchased a hammock or not. Was at wally world yesterday looking at walking sticks and foam pads. Purchased a Mariposa extra large backpack to help me train in my daily walking. Read somewhere that you start with different weights of bagged charcoal in pack for pack weight. Wally world had 10x12 camo tarps for $29.99 sounds alot better than a superfly for $170.00 is their any difference? Getting more excited each day. I am praying for a mild winter so I can start at springer earlier but thats out of my hands. I am just going to wait and see what the weather is like and make a determination as to a start date at that time. I remember years ago a late snow storm where hikers had to be air lifted off the trail. Around here last frost is around 3rd week in April...
I was waiting for others to respond, as I want you to have a variety of input, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
First of all, anything that keeps you dry will work. My brother-in-law made a very effective tarp from leftover Tyvek for practically no cost (which isn't a bad choice, although it tends to be a bit noisy since it's a basically plasticized paper). After staying dry, it boils down to (a) cost, (b) weight, (c) space consumed in pack, (d) aesthetics, (e) comfort and (f) DIY skills. Figure out what YOUR priorities are among those, and then use that to drive a decision, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks is a good choice.
The WW camo tarp is going to be about a pound or more heavier, and will take up a lot more space in the pack. You might attach it outside the pack, and you did get an extra-large pack, so space may not be an issue. Weight is always an issue but so is affordability, so balance to what suits you. The WW pack probably has metal grommets every 36", and no mid-tarp tie-out points. This makes it a little more difficult to configure in the field than a Superfly. The Superfly has doors on each end whereas the rectangular WW tarp (probably) will not, so it increases your privacy and wind protection factor.
Since you may make fewer miles per day, especially early on, you may need to carry more food than others as it will be longer between resupply points. Thus, I think weight will be an important factor. If you have any sewing skills, or access to someone who does, you might consider a silpoly tarp kit from ripstopbytheroll.com. You can get a complete kit for $61 plus tax & shipping. This will give you a good middle-ground choice - less than half the cost of a SF but you end up with a pretty decent tarp. (Don't try to do this as a first DIY project, at least not with the thought it will save money, as the start-up costs will eat up all savings and then some.)
Most of all, don't stress over it. If you want to get the WW tarp, and decide to not carry it on the AT, you can always use it to cover up the lawn mower or provide some backyard shade. Worst case, it's pretty cheap and allows you to get on with the training right away. Far better you get out there with a good-enough tarp than to stay home because you don't have the Taj Mahal.
ironbutt
09-18-2015, 10:52
@ Tundracamper thanks after inquiring there is a possibility that I can indeed be granted a exception to the rules if I am within the guidelines of a disabled person using the parks services. I would have to apply for special designation for exception to existing park rules and be disabled under federal guidlines with documentation. Also a current medical evaluation with recommendations for exemption submitted to park service in current year that park is to be used. From what I understand is that a permit would be issued after I met the requirements and I would be required to have it on my person during its use.
I suggest you contact the rangers in the Smokies and explain your medical condition. I for one would really like to know if they would not grant you an exemption from the shelter rule and allow you to sleep in a hammock. If they balk, run to the media. There is no need for that kind of rule for someone that has worked so hard to get to the point you are at. You should not be expected to sleep on a wooden plank!!
Starting at Springer pushes off that issue. I suggest you take your time and see how the first few legs go. There are some pretty steep sections in there and you don't want to hurt yourself by pushing too hard too early.
Good luck!! I hope it all works out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rocketsocks
09-18-2015, 11:10
@ Tundracamper thanks after inquiring there is a possibility that I can indeed be granted a exception to the rules if I am within the guidelines of a disabled person using the parks services. I would have to apply for special designation for exception to existing park rules and be disabled under federal guidlines with documentation. Also a current medical evaluation with recommendations for exemption submitted to park service in current year that park is to be used. From what I understand is that a permit would be issued after I met the requirements and I would be required to have it on my person during its use.
Well, I'd be shocked if the park service did that for ya, but the way I hear you tell it sounds like you have some knowledge on the situation already. It just sounds like a hard sell because of the nature of the disability vs the activity. Hope it goes your way Iron butt.
Tundracamper
09-18-2015, 22:02
@ Tundracamper thanks after inquiring there is a possibility that I can indeed be granted a exception to the rules if I am within the guidelines of a disabled person using the parks services. I would have to apply for special designation for exception to existing park rules and be disabled under federal guidlines with documentation. Also a current medical evaluation with recommendations for exemption submitted to park service in current year that park is to be used. From what I understand is that a permit would be issued after I met the requirements and I would be required to have it on my person during its use.
Well I'm certainly glad to hear they have such provisions. I'd say go for it. Having to sleep on a dirty board is one of the few things that makes me not care to hike the smokies. After all you've been thru, you deserve to go and enjoy it - and be able to get a good night's sleep. Let us know how it turns out if you decide to pursue the exemption.
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Im a physical therapist, a thru-hiker, and a diy/Myog Hammocker.
Your #1 priority is to continue in your walking/hiking rehab and progressively adding weight and/or difficulty.
Peer reviewed and published research on backpack weight demonstrate that a pack weight >15% of your body weight is a tipping point where body mechanics and balance are significantly negatively effected. Generally in the backpacking world the 20% figure is repeated, ignore that number, you should shoot for 10-15%... Including food and water in the pack.
There are expensive and inexpensive ways to reach that number. If you have a high budget you can likely get to 10% with a hammock setup. Hammocks are slightly heavier than tents but sleep and recovery are the name of the game during long-ass-sections so it's the only item worth the weight. Everything else ought to be as lightweight as you can afford.
while some do not subscribe to lightweight principles no one but you gets to hike with your limitations. At 10-15% you're giving yourself the best chance to succeed. At the end of the day your body may not be ready for what your mind wants it to do so listen to your body with respect to pushing your limits.
P.S. The title of 'thru' is overrated. It's just a long-ass-section anyways. Hike your long ass section the way you can and want and be proud that, in your current training and preparations, your hike has already begun!
Aram - I am confused about this percentage of body weight issue. I'm a chunk overweight and have been focusing on losing weight before beginning a long-distance hike. My thought is that for every ounce I take out of my pack, a pound off my body is that much more weight taken off my feet. But if the amount I can carry is linked to body weight, theoretically, for every pound of body weight loss, I would need to take four ounces out of my pack. Is this correct? Somehow it just seems wrong - that height/bone structure should matter more, and that taking pounds off my body should not force further lightening of my pack, as I've already taken that much more weight off my feet. I'm not arguing with research that I haven't read, just trying to undersstand what mechanism is in place here, and it sounds like you might have the background to be able to explain it.
Smoky Spoon
09-20-2015, 18:01
Please consider reading the book Long Distance Hiking on the Appalachian Trail for the Older Adventurer by David Ryan. You can buy it online at the ATC website and it costs next to nothing.
Good luck on your hike and great work on your progress. God bless.
Ironbutt :
Get your paperwork to the national park folks in early January. No telling how long it will take to process.
Aram:
According your 15% figure, my pack should weigh 21 pounds 12 ounces today. Before I lost 40-45 pounds my pack weight could have been 27 pounds 12 ounces. Hmmmm.
22 pounds might work for the typical 3 day long weekends required for a typical AT thru hike. I'm not sure if that number will work for some of the real, self-supported backpacking trips of 7 to 10 days that I would like to do. Or, my budget can't accommodate the weightless gear and the backpacking trips.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
I do not claim this figure as mine, it's the number I found while reading every available scrap of peer reviewed published literature on backpack weight because I'm a curious search fiend. Here's my non formal non published review of that literature: 10-15% is ideal, >15% there is a statistically significant detrimental effect, >20% the detrimental effects increase at a much higher rate similar to exponential type increases. In other words >20% is where the carrier of a backpack really starts to suffer the weight although for various reasons many will carry more while backpacking.
Venchka: Your example of 7-10 days between resupply is a personal matter that is not relevant to the OPs question regarding their goal of long distance hiking with a history of lower extremity paralysis. The OP related that the doctor said <50lbs = OK and I am suggesting that a much lower weight = successful. I suggest your pack weight is whatever you are happy with for you personal goals.
LAZ: Good question, the literature does not take fat mass vs fat free mass into account. Increased weight in a backpack is substantially different than increased body weight because of the distribution about the Center of Gravity of the body.
If you are overweight you have an excellent opportunity to improve your hiking ability by losing weight via fat mass, however, due to the weight distribution about the moving object (a hiker + backpack) I would assume that reductions in pack weight would be more noticeable lb per lb vs body mass reduction. Noticeable in terms of the measured variables of the studies and not necessarily in your own perception. The studies observed changes from baseline measurements with no weight in backpacks vs increasingly weighted backpacks. Your question would be more easily answered if they had adjusted for fat free mass. Height and bone structure would have less to do with an individuals ability to efficiently carry weight in a backpack than their fat free mass, global strength/endurance, and medical history. Someone with 30%fat weighing 200lbs is very different than someone 15% body fat at 200lbs, thats one reason for variability and standard deviations in these studies.
IronButt: The nature of staying warm in a hammock is very different and is generally more expensive than on the ground. Id be happy to make recommendations and help you problem solve based on your budget and physical limitations. Id also be happy to help you in any way I can regarding your specific individual goal of hiking Springer to Fontana or beyond.
-May The HIKE Be With You!-
Obi-Wan