sleeping bag

[Arden]

Hi;
I am planning to do some cool/cold weather trekking. I currently own a Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0deg F bag, but it is far too heavy and large to stuff into my new Osprey Atmos 65 AG pack. Yes, it does fit, but doesn't leave any room for clothing!
So I would like to get a lighter bag, and I think that down is the best option. I would love to be able to buy one of the MH bags that seem to be lighter and warmer for the weight, but the $400 - $500 price tag is too scary.

At this point, I am thinking a 15 or 20 deg (for men) is going to work. If I really need something warmer, I can still use the old bag - which might have lost a lot of its fluff anyway...
What I really want to know is: If I buy a 15 or 20 deg bag, and it gets much colder - how difficult is it going to be to keep myself warm? I always carry extra fleece, so I have always thought I could just sleep with more layers on. But with the zero deg bag I never had to do that.

I think I would also like to replace my old Thermarest air mattress with a CCF waffle type that I see so many backpackers carrying. I understand how using a good pad will improve the bag's cold rating.

Any thoughts?

Arden

[Another Kevin]

I'm fairly happy with my Marmot Never Summer - at 3.5 lb, it's bearable for a 0°F bag, and about 12 oz lighter than your Wyatt Earp. It packs a lot tighter than the Wyatt Earp. The stock stuff sack is 8.5 in diameter × 18 in long, but I've packed it down tighter than that in a compression bag. For a short trip, I can put it in my Granite Gear Crown VC 60 pack, which is a little smaller than your Atmos. At 7 inches of loft, it's pretty true to temperature rating. The retail price tag is about $300 - can be much less if you watch the sales or look for the ones that turn up as used gear because someone decided they really didn't like winter camping.

You have to be careful with it, because down MUST NOT get wet. Wet clothing is banned from the sleeping bag (I put it between my two sleeping pads, and that helps - at least it comes out unfrozen.)

I usually sleep in baselayer, socks, beanie or balaclava, and gloves in cold weather, I've had the Never Summer down to about -10°F wearing a fleece jacket and pants as well, and slept toasty.

In winter (at least up here, I know New Jersey is milder), I carry both my Thermarest AND a blue foam from XYZ-Mart. The Thermarest by itself isn't quite adequate, and one of your pads has to be foam for safety. Otherwise, you can be in deep doo-doo if your inflatable springs a leak. I don't think I'd be warm with just a RidgeRest or Z-Rest in subzero temps, either, but it's at least survivable if God forbid the inflatable fails, and the two pads together are nice and warm.

[nsherry61]

FWIW: For winter use, I use a 20 degree bag with a Thermorest NeoXLite under my Z-rest CCF pad. I readily put on all my other insulation (fleece, puffy, whatnot) inside the bag to get it comfortable in weather colder than 20 degrees. I put a quilt over my 20 degree bag for sub-zero weather.

[Dochartaigh]

What temperatures do you expect to experience? I've read many posts about people putting the cut-off point between using a sleeping bag and using a quilt right around 15º or so if my memory serves – i.e. sleeping bag for below that temperature, quilt for above (each matched with the proper R-value pad of course). I've only personally taken my 20º quilt down to maybe a little below freezing so far but have been happy and warm. Always matched with a 3+ R-value pad and a ~1-ounce fleece beanie.

My 20º Hammock Gear quilt was $249 and 19 ounces. It also packs down to probably less than 2/3rds the size of my Montbell super spiral down hugger 15º bag (which I'm guessing my old bag would be a lot smaller than your current bag is – so we're talking about a lot of bulk minimized here). If you're worried, and will be constantly pushing the limits of a quilt, then I would of course continue looking for a sleeping bag, but this is just to give you another lighter, less-bulky option to think about.

[Arden]

I've also got a CCF pad, and usually use it under the Thermarest. When I buy my bag, I'm going to look at pads as well - mine are all pretty old, and I think i can do a lot better for the same weight.
I have read a lot about down, which is now being treated with a hydrophobic chemical to repel dampness - but still, I would never want to get into my bag with wet clothes on.
At this point, I am planning to do some trekking during Oct and Nov from NJ north. I probably should go with a zero deg bag, but down instead of synthetic fill. That will cost me around $400 - $500. Not sure I can spend that much. I'm not really into buying used stuff like that. Campmor is still offering 20% off on one item ordered online.

[Venchka]

Take a look at Kelty bags. They have a loyal following. REI has a few good bags as well. When looking at EN rating temperatures, be aware that the ratings included a pad with an R-5 rating.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[peterboysen]

I work for Enlightened Equipment, so there's that disclaimer.

As someone mentioned above, if you're ok with quilts that's not only a good way to knock a bunch of weight off, but many end up finding them more comfortable too (Personally I much prefer quilts for cold weather trips, since getting into and out of it is way faster than with a sleeping bag, and it's easier to get change clothes while still staying under it for extra insulation). Enlightened Equipment's most popular option is the Revelation (http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/revelation/)quilt (Enigma is available as well if you want a sewn-closed footbox), though as mentioned Hammock Gear and others make quilts as well. If you want to stick with a sleeping bag configuration, we also just released the Convert (http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/convert/), which is a hoodless sleeping bag /quilt hybrid. If you went on the lower end of your thoughts for temp rating, our 10° Reg/Reg is $305 and under 2lbs (about 28.5oz). You'll need something of course to insulate your head since it's a hoodless system (we make the Hoodlum, but there are tons of choices for hats, balaclavas, etc. out there).

[peterboysen]

Ah, forgot to mention also, personally I think it's a good idea to build your insulation clothing into your sleep system too, but only really if you have clothing that will stay dry. I don't like active layers for sleeping since they're too likely to be a little damp and end up leaving you colder, but if you have insulation for around camp or resting time anyway, that's the stuff I like to wear for sleeping.

[Gambit McCrae]

For cold cold "snow on the ground" backpacking I happily strip down to my skibbies and jump in my WM 5* down bag (The Antelope). Its rating of 5* is the "comfortable rating not emergency rating" and is quite toasty :) weighs in a 2lb 8 oz

[Arden]

Considering that i cannot afford the bag I really want (zero deg down), I'm going to stick with my old bag and see how well it performs. I have stored it hanging in a closet rather than in a stuff sack, so hopefully the insulation won't have gotten too badly compressed.
I will purchase a new stuff sack - one that I can lash to the outside of my pack using the bungee loops. The stuff sack that came with my bag has no straps with which to secure it to the pack. If I try to simply bungee it on, it will slip out.
I will keep my current Thermarest and CCF pad - with the addition of anti-slip tape on the pads where appropriate to keep it from sliding and the bag from sliding off of it.
By doing it this way, I will still have the option later on to buy the bag I really want - which depends on what type of trekking I actually end up doing.
I am still thinking of trying a trek from Harriman Park NY to White River Jct VT starting in mid Oct. How far I get will depend on weather, my equipment, and my body.

Arden

[Another Kevin]

For cold cold "snow on the ground" backpacking I happily strip down to my skibbies and jump in my WM 5* down bag (The Antelope). Its rating of 5* is the "comfortable rating not emergency rating" and is quite toasty :) weighs in a 2lb 8 oz

I'm envious. I said up-thread that I was pleased with my 0° Marmot bag (3 lb 4 oz, if memory serves) but that's because I wasn't about to shell out double the price to go 12 oz lighter. Coach Lou has a WM Puma that I've had to be careful not to drool on when I've gone on winter trips with him.

[George]

Considering that i cannot afford the bag I really want (zero deg down), I'm going to stick with my old bag and see how well it performs. I have stored it hanging in a closet rather than in a stuff sack, so hopefully the insulation won't have gotten too badly compressed.
I will purchase a new stuff sack - one that I can lash to the outside of my pack using the bungee loops. The stuff sack that came with my bag has no straps with which to secure it to the pack. If I try to simply bungee it on, it will slip out.
I will keep my current Thermarest and CCF pad - with the addition of anti-slip tape on the pads where appropriate to keep it from sliding and the bag from sliding off of it.
By doing it this way, I will still have the option later on to buy the bag I really want - which depends on what type of trekking I actually end up doing.
I am still thinking of trying a trek from Harriman Park NY to White River Jct VT starting in mid Oct. How far I get will depend on weather, my equipment, and my body.

Arden

yeh, wait till you can bite the bullet and get a good down bag - it is a life long investment

[Venchka]

For cold cold "snow on the ground" backpacking I happily strip down to my skibbies and jump in my WM 5* down bag (The Antelope). Its rating of 5* is the "comfortable rating not emergency rating" and is quite toasty :) weighs in a 2lb 8 oz

10-4! I own an early WM Antelope Super Dryloft (dating myself and the bag) that I wouldn't trade for the world. Well, maybe I would trade for a spiffy new WM Vistalite. In the meantime, the Antelope is fine. All I need is time to get out and play in the woods with snow on the ground.
Good luck with your current bag. Start a Bag Fund! A high quality, honestly rated down bag is the best investment you'll ever make.

Wayne

[Rolls Kanardly]

Hi;
I am planning to do some cool/cold weather trekking. I currently own a Sierra Designs Wyatt Earp 0deg F bag, but it is far too heavy and large to stuff into my new Osprey Atmos 65 AG pack.



Any thoughts?

Arden

I ordered a twenty degree bag and was half asleep and did not see the negative sign. So I have a brand new, never used, negative twenty in compression sack to sell.
320273202832029
Private message or email is okay. Make me an offer I can not refuse. Rolls

[Colter]

I ordered a twenty degree bag and was half asleep and did not see the negative sign. So I have a brand new, never used, negative twenty in compression sack to sell.
320273202832029
Private message or email is okay. Make me an offer I can not refuse. Rolls

None of my business perhaps but I would immediately take it out of the compression sack or it will be losing loft/

[Rolls Kanardly]

None of my business perhaps but I would immediately take it out of the compression sack or it will be losing loft/
Colter
Of course it is your business. You are a member and should make comments when you see something that can be done better or differently.
I respect and welcome your comments to my posts anytime. That is why I joined Whiteblaze. To be part of a great fellowship of fellow hikers and outdoors people who help, assist, and talk about there experiences and expertise. I was very disappointed when I received the bag in the mail and realized I bought wrong and I threw it in the closet and forgot about it until I real the starting post for this thread. Now I can spread it open and make it work a little better due to your comments.

Rolls

[Arden]

I'm afraid the weight and size of a -20 bag is going to put a real squeeze on my other gear that I need to fit into the pack.
I'll check out my old SD bag and see what it can still do - for now.