View Full Version : Loop idea. Thoughts?
Going to be in the park from Oct 20th - 24th. Just looking at maps, I have come up with a loop but would like some opinions on my plan. Feel free to suggest other loops. Looking for 3 or 4 days of hiking. 8 - 12 miles a day and I don't want to stay in any shelters. I will probably be by myself.
Day 1, Park at Clingmans Dome if that is okay??? Hike AT to Fork Ridge Trail to Deep Creek Trail and stay at site 55. 12 - 13 miles.
Day 2, Pole Road Creek Trail to Noland Creek Trail to site 64. 8.4 miles.
Day 3, Springhouse Branch Trail to Forney Creek Trail to site 70 8.2 miles.
Day 4, Forney Creek Trail to Clingman's dome 8 miles.
Anyone see any reason for concern? Seems like a decent plan as long as the creek crossings aren't bad. Thanks all!
Berry Belle
09-21-2015, 21:14
Sounds good to me. Plan for cold wet weather, especially at higher elevations. Call the backcountry office to check on parking at Clingman's Dome. They were very helpful and directed me to safe parking at Big Creek Ranger Station when I asked about parking at Davenport Gap.
Mockernut
09-21-2015, 21:40
You can park at Clingmans Dome. The parking lot doesn't close til later in the year. I left a car there on Halloween a couple years ago and night hiked on Halloween to Elkmont. The mileage is more aggressive than it sounds given the elevation changes but if you're used to big climbs, it should be doable. Getting the permit for those sites should also be easy since you are solo and mostly during the week.
You may be just past peak color and at the high elevation, the leaves should be under your feet.
Based on what I know, I don't see any logistical issues that stand out. However, a few on WB have done more extensive hiking in GSMNP and usually are up to date about specifics. I'm getting there though. Have 766 miles of all the single track in GSMNP which is close to about 900 miles total. Some manways and abandoned single track in GSMNP too not counted in the NP's total miles of trails. Throw in some short road walks and there are basically an infinite number of possible loop combinations in GSMNP. GSMNP has extensive miles of trails to hike. I wish some would consider that rather than AT AT AT rah rah rah AT AT AT.
Based on what I know, I don't see any logistical issues that stand out. However, a few on WB have done more extensive hiking in GSMNP and usually are up to date about specifics. I'm getting there though. Have 766 miles of all the single track in GSMNP which is close to about 900 miles total. Some manways and abandoned single track in GSMNP too not counted in the NP's total miles of trails. Throw in some short road walks and there are basically an infinite number of possible loop combinations in GSMNP. GSMNP has extensive miles of trails to hike. I wish some would consider that rather than AT AT AT rah rah rah AT AT AT.
I hear ya on that. I'm just not confident on the non AT trails in the park :). I would love to plan more loops that are non AT but trying to find something that fits my schedule can be a bit tough.
Any way you slice it, heading up Clingman's is tough. I will double check with the park service. Thanks all!
Here again, as on the "Why do you stay at shelters?" thread, although the AT is well known and is at the highest elevations in GSMNP which make it attractive and the most popular trail in the NP what also attracts many to the AT in GSMNP is the regular spacing of shelter availability.
The AT in GSMNP is also generally maintained to a different(higher?) standard. It receives good maintenance attention. And, since its used by the NPS on horseback it is usually groomed out taller and perhaps a bit wider than non multi-use GSMNP foot traffic only single track. This also accounts for some differences in how the AT is maintained differently or appears different in different places. in comparable terrain.
MuddyWaters
09-21-2015, 22:45
Here again, as on the "Why do you stay at shelters?" thread, although the AT is well known and is at the highest elevations in GSMNP which make it attractive and the most popular trail in the NP what also attracts many to the AT in GSMNP is the regular spacing of shelter availability.
The AT is far from the best of GSMNP. Its mostly a ridgewalk, a densely wooded ridgewalk, with very few views. Maybe 8 or so views in 74 miles, including NFG.
The real beauty of the smokies is in its coves. Theres no waterfalls or 2 ft salamanders on the AT in gsmnp.
The AT is far from the best of GSMNP. Its mostly a ridgewalk, a densely wooded ridgewalk, with very few views. Maybe 8 or so views in 74 miles, including NFG.
The real beauty of the smokies is in its coves. Theres no waterfalls or 2 ft salamanders on the AT in gsmnp.
Ahum. I say yes to all. One can get quite a few more views from the AT/very near the AT proper in GSMNP if they would be willing to venture off trail jst little bit perhaps a 100 ft and/or possibly up another 100 or so ft to the actual highest pt long ridgelines or a knobs etc.
HooKooDooKu
09-22-2015, 09:40
I did a loop this year over Memorial Day weekend out of Noland Divide, Pole Road, Deep Creek, and Fork Ridge. The trail conditions on Deep Creek and Fork Ridge sucked. Lots of blow downs and several sections of badly eroded trail.
So if you are like me, and trying to join the 900 miler club, do these trails now before things get worse.
But if you're looking for what I consider a more interesting loop, I would suggest Noland Divide, Noland Creek, Lakeshore (Tunnel @ Road to Nowhere), Whiteoad Branch, Forney Creek. I've done this loop as a two night loop (in the other direction staying at #70 and #62), but each day was something on the order of 10-12 miles. However, there are lots of campsites along the loop that make it easy to do as a three night loop (perhaps staying at #61,#65,#69, or #61,#67,#69).
This alternate route includes two short road walks (about 0.75 miles each). Still start at Clingmans Dome and hike the AT. But when you come to the saddle where the AT almost touches the road (you might have to mark the spot on a GPS, the AT is below the level of the road so you might miss it) move over to the road and walk back towards Clingmans Dome. The trailhead for Noland Divide is about 3/4 of a mile back.
The 2nd road walk is to get to the Tunnel at the end of the 'Road to Nowhere'. As you walk down Noland Creek, you will walk under the road bridge. After the bridge, start looking for a connector trail on the left that will take you back up to the road. Cross the bridge and keep walking until you see the tunnel. (If you are afraid of tunnels, there are a couple of trails that go around it instead).
The creek crossings shouldn't be a problem. IMHO, Forney Creek has the worst creek crossings of any trail I've hikes in GSMNP so far. There are 5 crossing you can plan to need to remove your boots. But the difficulty is not in the depth of the water but the size of the rocks in the creek. Just take it slow and stay as low as you can. I've crossed these creeks numerous times with my kids along. I've even managed with a 10yo during times of high water (but that was a challenge trying to find safe spots to cross). But water levels should be down the time of year you're planning, so you shouldn't have any worries.
If you've never been to Andrews Bald, it would be worth the extra 1.5 miles (round trip) to take the right turn at the Forney Ridge/Forney Creek intersection to check out the bald.
If you've never been to Andrews Bald, it would be worth the extra 1.5 miles (round trip) to take the right turn at the Forney Ridge/Forney Creek intersection to check out the bald.
and if you come up forney creek trail, might as well stop by and see the old boiler.........
just off the trail....................
The creek crossings shouldn't be a problem. IMHO, Forney Creek has the worst creek crossings of any trail I've hikes in GSMNP so far.
for me----the two "worst" ones were the crossing of abrams creek going from little bottoms over to hannah mountain..........
and the eagle creek crossing at pinnacle creek.........
although----the eagle creek crossing only needs to be done if one is doing pinnacle creek..............
I did a loop this year over Memorial Day weekend out of Noland Divide, Pole Road, Deep Creek, and Fork Ridge. The trail conditions on Deep Creek and Fork Ridge sucked. Lots of blow downs and several sections of badly eroded trail.
So if you are like me, and trying to join the 900 miler club, do these trails now before things get worse.
But if you're looking for what I consider a more interesting loop, I would suggest Noland Divide, Noland Creek, Lakeshore (Tunnel @ Road to Nowhere), Whiteoad Branch, Forney Creek. I've done this loop as a two night loop (in the other direction staying at #70 and #62), but each day was something on the order of 10-12 miles. However, there are lots of campsites along the loop that make it easy to do as a three night loop (perhaps staying at #61,#65,#69, or #61,#67,#69).
This alternate route includes two short road walks (about 0.75 miles each). Still start at Clingmans Dome and hike the AT. But when you come to the saddle where the AT almost touches the road (you might have to mark the spot on a GPS, the AT is below the level of the road so you might miss it) move over to the road and walk back towards Clingmans Dome. The trailhead for Noland Divide is about 3/4 of a mile back.
The 2nd road walk is to get to the Tunnel at the end of the 'Road to Nowhere'. As you walk down Noland Creek, you will walk under the road bridge. After the bridge, start looking for a connector trail on the left that will take you back up to the road. Cross the bridge and keep walking until you see the tunnel. (If you are afraid of tunnels, there are a couple of trails that go around it instead).
The creek crossings shouldn't be a problem. IMHO, Forney Creek has the worst creek crossings of any trail I've hikes in GSMNP so far. There are 5 crossing you can plan to need to remove your boots. But the difficulty is not in the depth of the water but the size of the rocks in the creek. Just take it slow and stay as low as you can. I've crossed these creeks numerous times with my kids along. I've even managed with a 10yo during times of high water (but that was a challenge trying to find safe spots to cross). But water levels should be down the time of year you're planning, so you shouldn't have any worries.
If you've never been to Andrews Bald, it would be worth the extra 1.5 miles (round trip) to take the right turn at the Forney Ridge/Forney Creek intersection to check out the bald.
This is an interesting alternative. Especially doing it over 3 days and I would love to go to the tunnel. I'm not crazy about trying to find the road from the AT. How far would you be on the AT before hopping back on the road? Looks like maybe 1.5 miles or so? As much as I despise road walking would it make sense to just walk Clingman's Dome road until reaching the Nolan Divide trailhead?
This is an interesting alternative. Especially doing it over 3 days and I would love to go to the tunnel. I'm not crazy about trying to find the road from the AT. How far would you be on the AT before hopping back on the road? Looks like maybe 1.5 miles or so? As much as I despise road walking would it make sense to just walk Clingman's Dome road until reaching the Nolan Divide trailhead?
Oh and which direction would you recommend? Clockwise is what I would assume.
HooKooDooKu
09-22-2015, 12:02
I'm not crazy about trying to find the road from the AT.
It's not difficult. There is a trail that connects the AT with the small parking lot at the gap.
Coming from the other side, I saw and decided to by-pass this trail because it is below the level of the road, and I was looking for the trail to be even with the level of the road.
But before you even get to the gap from the Clingmans Dome side, there are a few drainages that is it possible to (carefully) walk down and short-cut the gap (I know because I had to use one when I passed the gap going the other way when I thought I knew what I was doing).
HooKooDooKu
09-22-2015, 12:10
Oh and which direction would you recommend? Clockwise is what I would assume.
Actually, I'm getting a couple of trips mixed up in my mind. When I did this loop, I actually started at Climgmans Dome, hiked out the AT to Welch Ridge and down Jonas Creek to camp #70. The 2nd day was down to the tunnel and most of the way up Noland Creek to #62. The last day was up Noland Divide, over to the gap, then the AT to Clingmans Dome.
But if your loop is going to include Forney Creek, I would suggest clock-wise only because the AT and Noland Ridge are dry. Hiking up Forney Creek (which is a relentless up hill*) at least provides frequent access to water so you don't have to haul as much weight up the hill.
* Just to give you an idea, the upper campsite #86 beside the water slide is still 2,000' BELOW the Clingmans Dome parking lot.
Ashepabst
09-22-2015, 22:25
The creek crossings shouldn't be a problem. IMHO, Forney Creek has the worst creek crossings of any trail I've hikes in GSMNP so far.
for me----the two "worst" ones were the crossing of abrams creek going from little bottoms over to hannah mountain..........
and the eagle creek crossing at pinnacle creek.........
although----the eagle creek crossing only needs to be done if one is doing pinnacle creek..............
there's one particularly rotten crossing on upper Forney that's crawl over slimy boulders --hard to get good footing, hard to get a good plant with your poles. the water was high when i did this stretch, so it could be a whole 'nother story otherwise.
the ford at the end of Panther Creek Tr comes to mind, while we're on the subject.
the ford at the end of Panther Creek Tr comes to mind, while we're on the subject.
yeah......that's kinda a weird one as one has to go down a steep embankment, if i remember correctly........
isn't/wasn't there a bridge there?
i havent been in that part in 15 years or so.................
HooKooDooKu
09-23-2015, 00:49
When I did the Panther Creek Ford, someone has strung a line across the creek to hold onto. From what I recall, it might have been a deep ford, but the creek bed was relatively smooth and the water flow gentle... compared to water crashing down the side of a rocky mountain.
The Abrams Creek ford is difficult in that it is wide with lots of slick rocks and deep pools to avoid... unless you like wet pants. But I can't say the Abrams ford is more difficult. I've done both sets of ford's with children and I would still over all rank Forney the more difficult.
Ashepabst
09-23-2015, 11:58
it's been awhile for me, too. but there definitely was not a bridge there. Middle Prong of LR is quite wide at that point. not necessarily deep, but wide enough that a little more volume would make that sucker impassible or not advisable.
I've never done this one, but what about the end of Roundtop Tr near the Y?.... it's hard to imagine how that's ever passible.
HooKooDooKu
09-23-2015, 12:46
I've never done this one, but what about the end of Roundtop Tr near the Y?.... it's hard to imagine how that's ever passible.
I've never done it as well. But given that the Y is a popular swimming hole, I'm thinking that means it is not some much a question of if this ford is passable, but simply a question of how wet you have to get to make it.
The Little Brown Book warns that "During high water, this crossing is absolutely unsafe without a boat. At an average flow rate, you may wish to carry a rope so assist some forders."
Based on how low I saw the creeks this past weekend in GSMNP, I'd be surprised if you had to get your knees wet if you tried this ford right now.
And to stay on topic for the OP, I can say that water levels are currently down, and that September thru November are typically the driest months in GSMNP. So unless there is a rain storm the day before your hike, I don't think stream crossings are going to be a problem. I'm not saying they will be rock-hops... some will... but I think at least some of the crossings of Forney will likely require boot removal (unless you like water inside your boots).
I've never done it as well. But given that the Y is a popular swimming hole, I'm thinking that means it is not some much a question of if this ford is passable, but simply a question of how wet you have to get to make it.
yeah.......when i did this trail---i got to creek and just turned around......
most people go upstream a touch and cross......
and on another forum, ive read a bunch of posts about people doing the crossing this year............and those people are more of the casual hiker, and not someone on this board.........
And to stay on topic for the OP, I can say that water levels are currently down,
and yeah, i noticed that the other day when i was in the park for work.......
west prong of pigeon river (on the spur) was really low.........
Great to hear the water level is low. Thanks guys.
i live in knoxville, and we havent had much rain these past days.......
the mountains got a touch over the weekend, but nothing major...................
i wouldnt sweat the crossings---UNLESS----a huge rain comes down, etc blah blah blah dont need to tell ya that though.....
have fun............