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View Full Version : Hey.. my HH made in China.



Husko
12-02-2005, 19:14
oh well, at least it was cheap and will last for years!!!! :banana

fiddlehead
12-03-2005, 18:24
What isn't made in China? Polypro long underwear is still being made here in PA and we make our own gear but almost everything is made somewhere in Asia. We give them all our money for manufacturing everything and they turn around and buy our treasury bonds. It works for now, but look out when they think they have enough money and start cashing in all those bonds.

Sly
12-03-2005, 18:58
So much for lambasting liberal communist pinkos... Capitalism at it best. USA made in Red China!

All Hail Walmart and HH!

MOWGLI
12-03-2005, 20:50
Speer Hammocks are made in the USA.

Fiddleback
12-03-2005, 21:21
So much for lambasting liberal communist pinkos... Capitalism at it best. USA made in Red China!

All Hail Walmart and HH!

"Red China":D Haven't heard that term since Nixon went to China in '72 and promised we wouldn't support the Taiwanese independence movement -- a third of a century ago! Ahhh, good times, good times.;)

FB

peter_pan
12-03-2005, 22:19
Jacks 'R' Better Quilts and Under Quilts and all JRB accessories are made in the USA.

Pan

MoBeach42
12-03-2005, 23:21
Western Mountaineering - made in the USA. As was my tarptent... but that's probably about it.

Patrick
12-05-2005, 01:00
Have they always been? I assumed mine was made in the US, but I didn't check or anything. Kind of depressing.

hammock engineer
12-05-2005, 01:31
I never checked either. Isn't HH based in Canada? That is where I thought mine was made.

Oh, well. It is just made where pretty much everything else is.

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 01:33
China owns the USA..or will...

justusryans
12-05-2005, 06:05
China owns the USA..or will...

A disembodied voice tell you that?:D

SGT Rock
12-05-2005, 08:29
Well HH is based in Canada, but the product was actually made in Washington State. So I'm not sure where Husko found the made in china part, but I am thinking it is possible that Tom is having something like the stuff sacks mass produced in China or something like that.

SGT Rock
12-05-2005, 08:38
Just to add to that. I'm not saying it isn't made in China now. Chances are his production needs could get higher in the US than he could handle and still keep the price in the same range - in that case he would have to get outside sourcing on production.

I just imagine that Tom is so particular about his product that he would have a hard time letting the hammock part go overseas. From what I know of getting things like that outsourced, it could take a lot of time to find a contractor that didn't try to change materials on you or cut corners on construction.

Seeker
12-05-2005, 12:31
could it be a copycat/pirate copy of a HH? happens with packs all the time...

Patrick
12-05-2005, 13:03
I did a search and came up with this on Hennessy's military page:

"Military models are made in the USA from US-made fabrics."

That was the only "made in" thing I could find on the website. Not sure if this implies the rest of the lines are made overseas, but I guess it could.

fiddlehead
12-05-2005, 15:44
When sewing complicated things like packs, you need a lot of different sewing machines.
I'm from an area where it used to be the textile capitol of the US (Pennsylvania).
now, it's hard to find a sewing factory (that works) but easy to find an empty one. Many times, these machines have been sold to overseas companies because that's who does the work.
Our sewers for the underwear guys have a minimum of 17 different kinds of machines to do their work. If you try to do it all on one machine, you're not going to get the same results.
The work has pretty much gone out of America because of your high wage demands.
There are a few small companies still around but they are going under much faster than new ones are starting.
Get used to the fact that things are made elsewhere.
or make your own.

Patrick
12-05-2005, 17:00
fiddlehead,

I hear what you're saying, but it isn't necessarily so, especially for outdoor stuff where so many of us patronize cottage gear shops.

I'm curious about the economics. I'm the farthest thing from an expert, but I don't see exactly why becoming bigger means you need to outsource to other countries.

Say you have a five man shop and can produce 100 units a month. Now your demand goes up to 1,000 units. Can't you then have a 50 man shop and still make the same percentage of profit, if not more? I don't see why you have to go to China or someplace cheap in that situation.

fiddlehead
12-05-2005, 18:04
Let's say you make a nice pack and are selling a few. But your competition has a similar pack with flat sewn seams. You like the idea but find out that the machine to do this stitch costs $20,000 and takes a highly skilled mechanic to fix it when it breaks.
China happens to have 100,000 of these machines and the mechanics are available. Your closest one is two states away. You must make a decision.
This is an actual problem that we came up with in our business.
In most cases, business get their product sewn in china because the folks there work for $.50 an hour and can put out the same product a lot cheaper because of the labor cost.
I was lucky enough to find a sewer that lives 40 miles away that has 38 machines. They are some 60-70 year old ladies that really know how to sew. Where would you find these extra 100 people that are experienced in sewing here? If you found them, you'd have to pay them at least $15.00 an hour. In the capitalist society, you wouldn't stay in business long. It's not easy i know. We keep searching for people in the US to do our work.

Seeker
12-05-2005, 18:05
regardless of the number of units, the key is wages... e.g. you can make 100 units using one building, 10 machines, and 10 workers, each making 10 units. you can add shifts and get extra use out of those machines and buildings. the cost of the building/rent and the machines is a fixed cost. you pay it regardless of whether it's in use or not. but you have to pay the extra 10 or 20 (2nd and 3d shifts) workers regardless... that's a variable cost... sure, it may go down if you can get a worker to be more productive, maybe by getting him to make 1 more unit per day (10% increase)... but you get better profits when you pay a worker $15 a day instead of $150 a day... rents are often lower in 3d world countries, and there is also a general lack of environmental laws, making it cheaper to get rid of your garbage...make sense?

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 18:06
Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and your O.K.
Money it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team
Money get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off my stack.
Money it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bull****
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
Money it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away

"HuHuh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right. That geezer was cruising for a bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2. He was asking
why he wasn't coming up on freely, after I was yelling and
screaming and telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.
It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"

icemanat95
12-05-2005, 18:09
To go from a five man shop to a 50 man shop means a huge expenditure in overhead resources, including a larger facility (MUCH more money and taxes) more equipments, different employment and insurance requirements, more power requirements, truckiong access issues, workers comp and liability insurance, etc. etc. etc. Some things scale up linearly, others logarithmically.

The next problem is when you hit a seasonal lull. With a small company, you can probably find something for your owrkers to do without having to lay them off, or if you have to lay them off, it won't eat you alive. With 50 employees, you run into a whole different scenario simply because of the scale.

When you outsource, you don't take on the expenses of all those staffing issues, nor the politics. You don't have to worry that your staff will unionize and drive you out of business by demanding benefits the business will not support. That becomes someone else's headache while your staff and yourself can concentrate on ensuring quality, customer service, custom work, etc.

No its not an ideal situation. In a perfect world, you would want to keep everything in-house, but the sheer mass of regulation makes it very difficult to do business this way in the US.

Patrick
12-05-2005, 18:45
I understand it's cheaper to get overseas workers by orders of magnitude. It's very clear to me that it's cheaper to pay foreign workers rather than American (the ethics of this is a whole other can of worms, of course).

That's not what I'm confused about, though. I was wondering specifically why small shops turn into overseas shops as they grow. If it's just a question of making a higher percentage of profit, that's clear enough. But it's often presented like, "Well, when the orders started flying in, we had no choice but to start outsourcing."

In my earlier example, five guys working for US wages can make 100 units and turn a profit. Why does it become less profitable for 50 guys (or grannies) working at that same wage to make 1,000 units selling at the same price? Why isn't it the same or more profitable?

As you pointed out, adding another shift means you're actually saving a bit of money because you're paying less rent. Now the percent of profit out of each unit that pays for the worker's spot on the floor is decreased a third or two thirds.

I hope this is staying on topic enough that we haven't hijacked this thread.

Patrick
12-05-2005, 18:48
Iceman,

Sorry, posted on top of you. That does answer many of my questions, thank you. It does seem pretty ass backwards, though.

Sounds like it would be cheaper to have ten five man shops working independantly than one fifty man shop.

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 18:53
To go from a five man shop to a 50 man shop means a huge expenditure in overhead resources, including a larger facility (MUCH more money and taxes) more equipments, different employment and insurance requirements, more power requirements, truckiong access issues, workers comp and liability insurance, etc. etc. etc. Some things scale up linearly, others logarithmically.

The next problem is when you hit a seasonal lull. With a small company, you can probably find something for your owrkers to do without having to lay them off, or if you have to lay them off, it won't eat you alive. With 50 employees, you run into a whole different scenario simply because of the scale.

When you outsource, you don't take on the expenses of all those staffing issues, nor the politics. You don't have to worry that your staff will unionize and drive you out of business by demanding benefits the business will not support. That becomes someone else's headache while your staff and yourself can concentrate on ensuring quality, customer service, custom work, etc.

No its not an ideal situation. In a perfect world, you would want to keep everything in-house, but the sheer mass of regulation makes it very difficult to do business this way in the US.

or to simplify..

"BUSINESS WANTS MAXIMUM PROFITS..BUT NO REPSONSIBILITY"

Patrick
12-05-2005, 19:00
That's depressing.

On the other hand, if some company offered to buy me up for a million bucks, I wouldn't care if they started making them out of asbestos and selling them exclusively to elementary school kids. The margaritas on the beach would help drown the guilt.

justusryans
12-05-2005, 20:08
what smokeymountainsteve said...

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 20:38
what smokeymountainsteve said...

yea business today only wants to plow with the horse,,not feed it.

but if your gonna work a horse ,,U got to feed it shoe and take it to the vet when needed..

swede
12-05-2005, 21:34
Commie stuff sacks! After reading the above I checked out my new (2 mo.) HH, and the only made in China stamp is on the stuff sack.

c.coyle
12-05-2005, 21:42
China owns the USA..or will...

They said that about Japan 20 years ago. Now, my Toyota is made in Kentucky, and the Japanese economy is in the tank. Just bought a pair of New Balance trail runners, made in the U.S.A.

We should be more concerned about India than China.

Actually, the Chinese invented the hammock in the 1400's, during the Ming Dynasty. Soon after, they invented the rain fry.

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 21:54
Japan veri little

china veri big

Just Jeff
12-05-2005, 21:58
The jump from 100 units a month to 1000 units a month is likely a significant capital investment...we'll call it a million bucks for a new factory. Only I'm not going to sell 1000 units a month - I'll only sell 120 for a while, then 200, then 400. And all that time I'm paying the same million-dollar-rent, and probably have a negative cash flow until sales increase.

Or, I can outsource and only pay for the production capacity I need, at the time I need it. Huge unit cost savings over investing in an entire new factory.

Besides that, if someone is willing to sew for $.50 an hour, guess how much an hour's worth of sewing is worth. $.50. And no more. Paying someone $15 an hour to sew isn't helping anyone but that person - and they're mooching $14.50.

Of course, lowering the transaction costs (shipping from China, etc) and tighter control over production quality may increase that value somewhat, so it might be worth it to pay a bit more for a local seamster. I have a hard time believing the difference in quality equates to a ~3000% increase in wages, though.

Paying people more than their job is worth isn't "social responsibility"...it's harmful to our economy. It bloats it. It means workers demand wages that the market won't support to the point where other countries can undercut them. So the government has to bail out the airlines and save Harley Davidson and impose protectionist tariffs...which means Americans have to buy inferior products simply because they're American. That may not be very noticeable in the U.S. because we have a very diversified industrial economy (shifting to an information/services economy), but ask the Latin American Dependistas how well it worked for them.

Just Jeff
12-05-2005, 21:59
Soon after, they invented the rain fry.

HAHAHA - now THAT's politically incorrect and very funny.

the1stranger
12-05-2005, 23:43
I also believe it is wise to pay Americans $0.50 per hour to sow stuff. That way, They wont be able to pay $5.00 for a whopper combo at lunch. Or better yet, They wont be able to pay $100.00 per month for car insurance. They wont be able to pay $120.00 per month to pay for heat in the winter. They wont be able to pay $3.00 per gallon for gas. They wont be able to $100.00 per week for their piece of crap apartment or their 30 year mortgage. The list can go on and on.

I say keep them bare foot and pregnant, and if they can't do the job, give them a special badge when they work especially hard. If they can't do that, then simply allow their grand children to bow down before the next economic power so that they may learn their lessons in humility.

Humanity is a grand experiment and some will enjoy the entertainment. Others will not.

Enjoy your hike!

smokymtnsteve
12-05-2005, 23:46
The Jungle

by

Upton Sinclair

Bjorkin
12-06-2005, 00:10
The jump from 100 units a month to 1000 units a month is likely a significant capital investment...we'll call it a million bucks for a new factory. Only I'm not going to sell 1000 units a month - I'll only sell 120 for a while, then 200, then 400. And all that time I'm paying the same million-dollar-rent, and probably have a negative cash flow until sales increase.

Or, I can outsource and only pay for the production capacity I need, at the time I need it. Huge unit cost savings over investing in an entire new factory.

Besides that, if someone is willing to sew for $.50 an hour, guess how much an hour's worth of sewing is worth. $.50. And no more. Paying someone $15 an hour to sew isn't helping anyone but that person - and they're mooching $14.50.

Of course, lowering the transaction costs (shipping from China, etc) and tighter control over production quality may increase that value somewhat, so it might be worth it to pay a bit more for a local seamster. I have a hard time believing the difference in quality equates to a ~3000% increase in wages, though.

Paying people more than their job is worth isn't "social responsibility"...it's harmful to our economy. It bloats it. It means workers demand wages that the market won't support to the point where other countries can undercut them. So the government has to bail out the airlines and save Harley Davidson and impose protectionist tariffs...which means Americans have to buy inferior products simply because they're American. That may not be very noticeable in the U.S. because we have a very diversified industrial economy (shifting to an information/services economy), but ask the Latin American Dependistas how well it worked for them.


Just to add to those thoughts which are on the money; If you have a company which does enought business to warrant 50 employees manufacturing a product then that usually means you are already in a market that has outsourced already overseas. So, a cottage industry business can survive but when you step up into the bigs you're already behind the 8-ball and HAVE to outsource or you won't be around very long.

Sly
12-06-2005, 00:48
Besides that, if someone is willing to sew for $.50 an hour, guess how much an hour's worth of sewing is worth. $.50. And no more. Paying someone $15 an hour to sew isn't helping anyone but that person - and they're mooching $14.50.

So you want to pay American workers Chinese wages or call them mooches. Maybe we should outsource our military too.

Sly
12-06-2005, 00:59
Paying people more than their job is worth isn't "social responsibility"...it's harmful to our economy. It bloats it. It means workers demand wages that the market won't support to the point where other countries can undercut them.

Nah, just break or make a law and hire a bunch of illegals. Why is it supply and demand should only work to the companies benefit?

Patrick
12-06-2005, 01:08
Holy crap, where can I find an apartment for $100 a week???

I'm still not sure I totally agree with this stuff, but I'll hold my tongue until I get at least an employee to screw over via the Reds.

Speaking of Chinese slave wages, time to get back to sewing...

the1stranger
12-06-2005, 01:18
Holy crap, where can I find an apartment for $100 a week???

If I have to tell you, then you probably would not understand anyway. :bse

attroll
12-06-2005, 01:44
Well I want to know where the info was found that says that Hennessey is having them made in China. I really don't think this is true. I would like to see proof.

Husko
12-06-2005, 02:05
http://www.husko.net/csharp/Blog/tabid/62/Default.aspx

No proof.. Just what's printed on it. Really though I can't think of one item in my pack that is American made anyway. Cheap camera made in China lol.

Oh and Hi.

Patrick
12-06-2005, 02:19
Yeah, I'd say that means the whole thing not just the stuff sack.

This is interesting. Just dug mine out and it doesn't say that.

Just Jeff
12-06-2005, 02:49
So you want to pay American workers Chinese wages or call them mooches. Maybe we should outsource our military too.

No, I think we should educate them and train them for profitable jobs where they can earn a fair wage. The govt paying for retraining is an acceptable use of tax dollars...paying someone a monthly check so they can stay in a job that doesn't pay their bills is not.

I was on and off welfare as a kid, but my mom worked hard (sometimes three jobs) to get off of it every time. I'm not coming into these discussions blind to how the system works.

If you think you can find a better way to run our military, then by all means write your congressman. President, too.

I didn't mean to turn this thread into another political debate - sorry for the hijack. This is my last post on the subject.

c.coyle
12-06-2005, 07:30
HAHAHA - now THAT's politically incorrect and very funny.

Crap! Where's that damn edit button?

JoeHiker
12-06-2005, 14:32
or to simplify..

"BUSINESS WANTS MAXIMUM PROFITS..BUT NO REPSONSIBILITY"
And the public wants maximum quality but no cost to the consumer.

smokymtnsteve
12-06-2005, 17:48
And the public wants maximum quality but no cost to the consumer.

nope..just a fair deal

JoeHiker
12-06-2005, 19:26
nope..just a fair deal
Now there's a fairy tale.

If that were true, you wouldn't see Walmart's aisles so crowded in every new store they open up. Especially when they use so much foreign labor, knock out local businesses, stomp out unions, etc. All those customers who only want "a fair deal" would still go to Frank's hardware store in town, even though the prices are higher.

But they don't, of course. They go to Walmart because it's cheaper. They want John Smith down the street to pay a little extra at the local store while they save every penny they can. Businesses want to maximize profits and customers want to maximize savings. Neither one of them wants any "responsibility".

If Tom Hennessey can save a little money by having his hammocks manufactured in China, good for him.

Sly
12-06-2005, 21:13
Yeah, let's raise communists China's standard of living at the expense of American workers and the American economy! Global power, we're all equal consumers and capitalist!

hammock engineer
12-07-2005, 01:38
Not to get off the subject, but has anyone actually contacted HH and asked them? I love the one that I bought and would recommond it to anyone interested in hammocks. If they are made in China, then they are doing a better job on it then they do the other things I have from there.

Just Jeff
12-07-2005, 10:34
Crap! Where's that damn edit button?

Haha...man, I'm still laughing about that. I don't care who you are, that stuff's funny...

c.coyle
12-07-2005, 11:26
I'm serious. Sometimes I get an edit button after posting something, sometimes not. I use Opera. Maybe it's a browser specific problem.

Just Jeff
12-07-2005, 11:36
No, it happens to everyone. I thought you did it on purpose...it's even funnier that it was an accident!

Fiddler
12-07-2005, 12:01
Whenever I go to buy anything I might go to a half dozen or more stores looking at the tags trying to find whatever I want that is made in this country (Shoes, clothing, household item, a piece of gear, a tool, whatever) and usually can't find it. So if it is something I must buy (can't make, can't do without) I will get it made somewhere in North America if possible, my next choice is S. America, next choice is some European country. I try to keep my purchase as close to home as possible. Even when it costs more. Am I going overboard with this? My family thinks I'm nuts. Or could it be that I am simply trying, in some small way, to act like I still care?

hammock engineer
12-07-2005, 15:26
I emailed HH about this and got the following reply from Tom P,

"We used to make everything just in the US and Canada. Now, we make some of our models in China and some are still made in the US and Canada. The breakdown is as follows:

Scout - made in China
Standard Expedition Asym (currently our holiday special) - made in China
Ultralight Backpacker Asym - made in US and Canada
Explorer Deluxe Asym - made in China, some made in US and Canada
Explorer Ultralight Asym - made in US and Canada
Safari Deluxe - made in US and Canada
Adventure Racer and Lite Racer - made in US and Canada
Military Expedition Asyms - made in US and Canada
Special run hammocks including non standard Expedition Asyms - made in US and Canada

Made in US and Canada generally means manufactured in the US with some assembly and packaging done in Canada.

For any questions related to this topic or any other hammock related inquiries, please feel free to call 1-888-539-2930 or email [email protected]"

Tinker
12-07-2005, 15:37
I work part time at Dick's Sporting Goods in their bike department. ALL of their bikes are made in China, even the Official New England Patriot's kid's bike. :p

fiddlehead
12-07-2005, 17:59
Am I going overboard with this? My family thinks I'm nuts. Or could it be that I am simply trying, in some small way, to act like I still care?

Yes, in my opinion you are. The world gets smaller all the time. How big is your world? as far as you can reach? see? walk in one hour? day? drive in one day? fly in one day?
You could go for being self sufficient. I have some friends who live off the grid in Idaho who do very well at this but they still dumpster dive for things like lawn mowers etc.
Thinking evil of the Asians is your option. But many of them are excellent people.

smokymtnsteve
12-07-2005, 18:22
Whenever I go to buy anything I might go to a half dozen or more stores looking at the tags trying to find whatever I want that is made in this country (Shoes, clothing, household item, a piece of gear, a tool, whatever) and usually can't find it. So if it is something I must buy (can't make, can't do without) I will get it made somewhere in North America if possible, my next choice is S. America, next choice is some European country. I try to keep my purchase as close to home as possible. Even when it costs more. Am I going overboard with this? My family thinks I'm nuts. Or could it be that I am simply trying, in some small way, to act like I still care?

No U are NOT!!

U R a True Patriot!


THINK GLOBALLY

ACT LOCALLY!

Buying goods and produce that is produced near your home saves a lot of energy, goods that R produced halfway around the world must be transported
long distance..contributing to oil useage and pollution (a hidden cost that No one directly pays for in $$$ but that we all pay for in enviorimental cost)

no U R not crazy ..U R a Hero!

general
12-07-2005, 18:49
Whenever I go to buy anything I might go to a half dozen or more stores looking at the tags trying to find whatever I want that is made in this country (Shoes, clothing, household item, a piece of gear, a tool, whatever) and usually can't find it. So if it is something I must buy (can't make, can't do without) I will get it made somewhere in North America if possible, my next choice is S. America, next choice is some European country. I try to keep my purchase as close to home as possible. Even when it costs more. Am I going overboard with this? My family thinks I'm nuts. Or could it be that I am simply trying, in some small way, to act like I still care?

absolutely not overboard. i built billiard tables for a company in atlanta for 10 years. we had a production line and also did plenty of custom stuff. i built pool tables for most of the braves, falcons, countless entertainers including a 12 foot snooker table that goes on tour with the rolling stones.
even after all of that business (lots of $ for the company) they decided a mass produced model from china would be more cost effective. i have to agree. the cheapest we could manufacture a quality pool table was around $800 cost. they picked up a chinese model for $585. at 600 pool tables a year that's a savings of $129,000 a year, oh yeah not to mention the $4000 a week payroll for 2 master craftsmen and 3 apprenticies. that's a total savings of $177,000 a year. no brainer right? not exactly. make no mistake, the tables the five of us built in Buford Georgia were heilrooms. grandkids will be giving them to grandkids 100's of years from now. the chinese model is a grade a piece of junk, but on the outside it looks good. any trained salesman can make a turd sound like a bar of gold, and to the average american consumer, how it looks is all that matters. i used to make damn good money for my skills. now i scrape out a living building ultralight tents and other gear here in Cleveland Georgia located in these great United States of America. i depend on people like you who demand better guality. i and every other mom and pop company thank you for buying american.

Fiddler
12-07-2005, 20:03
Thinking evil of the Asians is your option. But many of them are excellent people.

I do NOT think evil of Asians or any other race of people. I just think that as an American I should try to support America and the American worker first if I can. Even if it does cost another few dollars.

Quote from fiddlehead: "i depend on people like you who demand better guality. i and every other mom and pop company thank you for buying american."

I do not do this because I demand better quality. I also do not do it for the "mom and pop" companies. I do it for America. And I will continue to do this as long as there are ANY products made in this country.

fiddlehead
12-07-2005, 22:05
That's not my quote above. looks like that was from the General but anyway,

Sorry, i assumed you were picking on the Asians because of this statement that YOU made: "I will get it made somewhere in North America if possible, my next choice is S. America, next choice is some European country."
I realize you didn't say Africa or Austrailia, and i should not have assumed you were picking on only Asians.
If you compare American cars to Japanese cars, you'll probably find that many people buy the Japanese cars because of quality. Yes they now made in KY, OH, USA. I live near a huge GM factory in Thailand and Ford has one up north. (thailand)
My point is that we are all on this planet together. and it is getting smaller everyday. do you want to get along with your neighbors or build the big fence and try to live inside.
Now if you want to elect folks who make it advantagous to import goods, like Bush did with the latest free trade agreement with China, Thailand and Malaysia. Go right ahead, but don't be bitchin that you can't find anything made in America anymore. (no more import tax at all for Thai goods, Chinese have been cut to 4%)

the1stranger
12-07-2005, 23:38
I worked as a contractor for 8 months on a project. I was getting paid $14.00 per hour.

After my first week, the boss at %Company% gave me a stack of papers to go over and sign from my contracting company. He forgot to take the one HE was supposed to sign.

It pretty much stated that I was getting $14.00 per hour and %Company% was paying $45.00 per hour for my services.

That was 4 years ago.

Pretty cool huh.

Seeker
12-08-2005, 01:18
I worked as a contractor for 8 months on a project. I was getting paid $14.00 per hour.

After my first week, the boss at %Company% gave me a stack of papers to go over and sign from my contracting company. He forgot to take the one HE was supposed to sign.

It pretty much stated that I was getting $14.00 per hour and %Company% was paying $45.00 per hour for my services.

That was 4 years ago.

Pretty cool huh.

lots of businesses run that way... manpower, @work, and a lot of temp agencies too... it's their industry standard... for a service company, a lot of the overhead is the same, as are the workers' wages... so they bill based on an hourly cost... i ran a cleaning service years ago... standard charge for all three of the biggest ones in town was about $25/hour/employee... we paid about $9-10/hour, depending on the employee... i didn't get rich...had to pay for my own health insurance too... i also paid unemployement, worker's comp, Social Security, and was bonded. i had a rent payment for my office, phones, pagers, a fleet of cars, gas, equipment and its maintenance, insurance on everything, liability insurance (in case we burned down a house or used the wrong chemical on the wrong surface in a home), office staff once i got big enough, etc... a team of 2 employees earned me about $200 profit per week on about $1200 in gross... payroll related expenses alone were roughly 45% of my gross. so i don't grudge my current company billing whatever it takes to get to my pay...

the1stranger
12-08-2005, 02:13
So $600.00 of that per employee per week went to the temp service while $360.00 of it went to the actual worker? With out taxes and other expenses of course.

I know a lot of admin is done by the temp services but in the same breath, I would have to say that it all just sucks. And these temp services regard their employees as cattle.

I've worked in all parts of these. I've been a temp. I've worked for a temp service company in house as a developer/network engineer for their company, and they talked about the people they sent out to jobs like pieces of crap.I've also been on the end of trying to get these guys to work on the floor as a shipping/receiving supervisor, and it's no picnic, because they simply don't care. They don't work for you, they work for their temp service, and if it doesn't work out, they just move on. It's a bigger vacuums than health insurance costs in my opinion (Since most don't even get that at temp agencies, that or they have to pay 400 bucks a month for it.)

I don't care what anyone says. I believe these temp agencies are stealing from both participants and have been laughing all the way to the bank. And there is no way you can change my mind about that.

Ultimate fact is, you'll find very few temps that give a crap about you and your business.

Just Jeff
12-08-2005, 10:54
I don't care what anyone says. I believe these temp agencies are stealing from both participants and have been laughing all the way to the bank. And there is no way you can change my mind about that.

They provide a service. You pay them what you think it's worth, or you don't use them.

Out of curiosity - If the worker is willingly accepting his wage, and the employer is willingly paying the fee, how is that stealing?

Fiddler
12-08-2005, 11:31
Quote from fiddlehead: "i depend on people like you who demand better guality. i and every other mom and pop company thank you for buying american."

OOPS! Sorry bout that General. I didn't mean to mis-quote fiddlehead or deny you credit. Didn't read my reply carefully enough and I can't find that so-called "EDIT" button anywhere.

Hana_Hanger
12-28-2005, 03:51
This whole thread was very entertaining!

Both of my camping hammocks are not made in the USA although I thought my Hennessey one was till this thread.

Yep even Harley-Davidson Motorcycles...Wake up and smell the cherry blossoms...most of the parts are made in Japan...no wonder the Harley is finally more dependable.

I'll stick with my rice paddler...lol

Mr. Clean
12-28-2005, 05:22
I read an article somewhere, maybe Backpacker, that said that most high-end backpacks are now being made in Vietnam. I wonder if any are still being made in the USA. My Gregory was made there, but seems of very good quality.
The article mentioned that the Vietnamese never hiked, but after the article many of them would head for the woods and go for long walks after being told about the Americans and their love of hiking.

Patrick
12-28-2005, 17:42
My ULA P-1 was made in Utah. Right out of the box the quality really impressed me. I think any high-end product will last a good long time, but this pack is definitely one of my nicest pieces of gear.

hikelite55
12-29-2005, 16:38
It`s the stuff sacks that are made in China not the actual hammocks, wouldn`t ya know it my stuff sack came apart at the seams, go figure!!!!

Patrick
12-29-2005, 16:50
Was it this thread that someone posted the breakdown of where all the models were made?

My stuff sack just crapped out, too. It came undone around the collar. Once I get off my ass and get a MacCat (and the two extra stakes it's going to require), I'll be needing a bigger one anyway, though.

Blue Jay
12-29-2005, 18:56
Yep even Harley-Davidson Motorcycles...Wake up and smell the cherry blossoms...most of the parts are made in Japan...no wonder the Harley is finally more dependable.

I'll stick with my rice paddler...lol

Between 14% and 18%, depending on the model, of Harley parts are made in Japan, loser boy. If you are going to bash Americans at least get your facts right. You deserve to drive your pathetic piece of crap.

wentworth
12-29-2005, 20:34
Was there really any need for that? If you feel the need to insult someone, do it to their face, rather than from behind your safe keyboard.

Just Jeff
12-29-2005, 20:53
Seriously.

Seeker
12-30-2005, 13:41
funny... you don't hear people knocking BMW or Mercedes, or claiming Chrysler is a foreign car. What's up with that? why the anti-japanese bias?

since 1987, i've owned a mercedes, three Camrys, and my business fleet consisted entirely of corollas (well, it started with two fine GM products made in TN, but after a short time, i woke up to maintenance issues and replaced the two vehicles with 'japanese' ones, made in KY.)

i don't know if it's the law, or if toyota just 'does' this, but on a new one, there's a 'foreign parts content' sticker in the window, next to the price/features sticker, which explains what was made where, with percentages. as of 2002, all toyota transmissions were made in Japan. all corollas, siennas, avalons, solaras, and camrys were made in georgetown, ky, or windsor, ontario. the tacoma and tundra were assembled in washington state. the mr2 spyder was entirely made in japan, and maybe the landcruiser. the RAV4, highlander, and 4Runner i don't know about anymore, and the sequoiah was assembled in the same place as the tundra (same chassis.) the Echo was, IIRC, then made in japan (new model that year, or in 2001), but was scheduled to be made at the georgetown plant. i used to sell them.


one of our local manufacturers in knoxville, where i lived at the time, was a ceramics plant that produced parts for various automakers on a contract basis. the plant manager was a customer of mine, and he taught me some interesting things. his 'defective parts per miillion' rate for the big 3 US automakers was anything under 75. for toyota contracts, it was 1. that told me a lot about 'japanese' quality. whoever was responsible for setting that standard, japanese or not, was determined to make a good product.

i think it also interesting that this past summer, when GM forced the other two US makers to meet it's 'employee prices' sales gimmick, toyota and honda didn't play along. they continued to sell vehicles (and more of them!) without exhorbitant 'rebates'... and GM is now considering bankruptcy. hmm....

thanks, but i'll stick with my 'japanese' car, made by Bubba McHillbilly, in Georgetown, KY.

Camper101
01-01-2006, 15:12
Well HH is based in Canada, but the product was actually made in Washington State. So I'm not sure where Husko found the made in china part, but I am thinking it is possible that Tom is having something like the stuff sacks mass produced in China or something like that.

All I have to say to that is Canada rocks!!!!!!!!

RobK
01-06-2006, 07:10
Hey guys (and gals).

As some of you have read, I hang in Clark hammocks.
I thought I'd find out where they are made - the quote below gives other insights as well.

Rob,

Yes, all Clark Hammocks are made here in Utah. I like it that way because I have more control of the quality. It also means that we don't have to build as many hammocks at a time and I am able to make small changes during the year if we find ways to improve the product.

Regards,
Gary Clark