View Full Version : New to alcohol stoves
Mouser999
10-07-2015, 13:34
I am considering going to an alcohol stove (not sure yet as to which one). How much fuel should I estimate to take on a 5 - 6 day trip heating water twice a day? I'm still researching various stoves.
Thanks
Ed
FarmerChef
10-07-2015, 14:17
Ed - there are lots of posts on this topic, some of which get quite technical. The amount of fuel you'll need is a correlation between the thermal output of your chosen stove design and the geometry, composition and capacity of your chosen pot, all coupled with the amount of water and starting temperature of it plus the ambient temperature outside and the temperature of your pot. In short, and not at all facetious, it depends. The best way to figure that out is to test a stove design with the typical amount of water you will use and record how much fuel you used to bring your water to a boil (if you are doing freezer bag cooking) or to bring water to a boil and then cook your food. Then it's a matter of math to figure out how much fuel you'll need to carry. Of course, I would goose that number just a bit to allow for colder weather, colder water (springs/winter), or longer than anticipated cook times.
Sorry I can't give you a rough generalization. It really does depend on your gear setup and the other factors.
swisscross
10-07-2015, 15:15
Six days, no resupply?
For me that would be a canister stove.
Moosling
10-07-2015, 15:36
1oz for 2 cups, for my cat can stove anyway.
HooKooDooKu
10-07-2015, 15:38
An alcohol stove has the benefit of light weight in both the stove and the container required to store fuel. But alcohol fuel only has about half as much energy as other fuels (white gas, canister stoves). So at some point, the benefit of a lighter stove and container are offset by the extra weight of fuel.
The exact point at which a canister stove makes more sense than an alcohol stove will vary based on many variables like the ones FarmerChef pointed out. Seems like any time I've seen a discussion or article about the subject, somewhere around 5 to 7 days becomes the point at which a light weight canister stove trumps the weight of an alcohol stove.
If you want to start playing with alcohol stoves, go buy a can of denatured alcohol at some place like Lowe's (~$10-$15), a can of Fancy Feast cat food, and Google some instructions on making a Fancy Feast stove (http://andrewskurka.com/2011/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/). Alcohol stoves require a wind screen, so you'll also need some aluminum foil to make your first screen.
how much water? 2 cups is common, for taht much to be safe 1oz per set, or 2oz fuel a day. A few stove systems can do 2cups with 1/2 oz of fuel. Those very high efficiency alcohol stoves will beat out cannister stoves for weight of fuel carried. The only thing a cannister will buy you in that case is speed of boil and simmer control.
I've been using HEET and the dollar tree gas line antifreeze for test burns. Walmart may start carrying their own brand of gas line antifreeze since we're getting into cooler weather. That's also very inexpensive.
On the stove side, a very safe purchase would be a trangia burner. Very inexpensive and available, although not very lightweight. But there's a ton of accessories available for it. Max efficiency would be an ION stove, I think the CHS design might be on par with the ION for possible efficiency. Hiram Cook has a very good youtube channel, here's his pick on alchohol stoves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tg12QnFS6w
funny enough my first build alcohol stove was his tomato can/carbon felt fancee feest, and I also got an alocs trangia knockoff for dirt cheap.
On the stove side, a very safe purchase would be a trangia burner. Very inexpensive and available, although not very lightweight. But there's a ton of accessories available for it. Max efficiency would be an ION stove, I think the CHS design might be on par with the ION for possible efficiency. Hiram Cook has a very good youtube channel, here's his pick on alchohol stoves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tg12QnFS6w
funny enough my first build alcohol stove was his tomato can/carbon felt fancee feest, and I also got an alocs trangia knockoff for dirt cheap.
Fancee Feest for 4 season use :-)
Approved for use by "Shug"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKAFAsPfC4s
Another advantage of alcohol stove is that you can easily carry a backup stove, or at least have your partner carry a backup with negligible weight.
used to have a whisperlite, buddy had a whisperlite and an xgk. On group trips without fail I would end up having to service one or more of those stoves and ended up smelling like a gas can with blackened hands for most of the trip. Also didn't help with weight always carrying those service kits. I'm not seeing service kits for the cannister ones although using a super cheap orange box burner as a backup should be good as long as the cannister doesn't malfunction.
Odd Man Out
10-08-2015, 00:38
The key is not to focus on the stove such but to focus on the sustem, that is how all the parts work together. There are many variables and each has its own pros and cons. What system is optimal for you will depend on your own priorities. Do you want low cost? Easy to build? Ultralight? Maximum efficiency? Fast boils? Easy to use? Etc... no one system can have it all. I have my system dialed it to where I really like it, but that took years of testing and adjusting. I have a huge pile of pots stands screens and stoves in the basement. Yhe bad news is that the only way to answer your question is for you to put together a system and do some tests youself. The good news you will then be on your way to getting the experience needed to design a system that is just right for you.
Mouser999
10-08-2015, 11:12
With all the different variables mentioned, I think I'll stay with my Chinese pocket rocket. Thanks for the assists.
Gonna try making a stove anyway for experiments.
Odd Man Out
10-08-2015, 13:51
With all the different variables mentioned, I think I'll stay with my Chinese pocket rocket. Thanks for the assists.
Gonna try making a stove anyway for experiments.
Nothing wrong with that. It is very true that alcohol systems are highly diverse. But it can be fun to experiment and eventually you may develop a system that will work for you.
FarmerChef
10-08-2015, 14:22
I love my penny stove and used it for most of our stove meals on my family's hike of the AT (now complete). It was light and heated our pots (large - 2L and 4L) better than the pocket rocket could. Don't give up on them but do be willing to experiment. I can make a penny stove in the field now but at home with a dab of J.B. weld and a power drill I can complete that bad puppy in about 10 minutes and it is rock solid and pretty well indestructible.
I've also got a couple stoves from Zelph (one alcohol stove and one wood burner) that I like. And I might convert to a wicking versus straight liquid alcohol stove at some point too. It's fun to experiment and they make GREAT stocking stuffers for the hikers in your life. :D
Slosteppin
10-08-2015, 19:52
I have 3 different stove systems, which I use depends on conditions. I use a Solo wood burning stove when I hike alone and have lots of daylight. With this system I don't have to worry about fuel anywhere in the eastern part of the country. I have a Caldera Cone system I like when the weather is likely to turn wet. A 12 oz bottle of HEET lasts me 6 days. I have a Jetboil I use when hiking with a group and/or daylight hours get short. The 4 oz (net) MSR canister lasts me 6 or 7 days.
These systems, including fuel, all weigh about the same.
If you have a good windscreen and your burner is positioned at the right distance from your pot, it is usually possible to heat 2 cups of water to near boiling or even boiling with 0.5 to 0.75 ounces of alcohol. I find I get the best results with more of a squat pot shape rather than a tallish pot shape. Testing your kit's performance at home will help you with planning the amount of fuel you will need for the type of cooking you plan to do.