PDA

View Full Version : Extra shoulder padding...



jefals
10-08-2015, 11:34
I just bought a 6L bladder. Took it on a test run yesterday. I was concerned about the way I had it hooked on -- if it was going to be wobbling around, etc. It did fine, except of course weighed down the pack, so that it was really digging into my shoulders after a while. Does anyone out there have any experience with something to cushion this?
Thanks

CenAZwalker
10-08-2015, 11:55
I have no experience with these but Zpacks has some add on shoulder pads:

http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/strap_pads.shtml

burger
10-08-2015, 12:04
A few things.

Maybe you need a bigger or better-fitting pack? If you're pack fits well, the weight should be mostly on your hips, and the shoulder straps should almost float above your shoulders, with little or no weight there.

Also, it sounds like you attached your bladder to the back of the pack. The heaviest items should be closest to your back. If you add a lot of weight to the back of the pack (far from your back), it pulls the pack back and that pulls on your shoulder. Try it inside. Or, better yet, switch to 3 2-L bladders so that you can put a couple in your side pockets and one at the top of the pack, nearest your back. I wouldn't even think about using a huge bladder like that because if you're doing a long water carry and it leaks, you're screwed. With smaller bladders, if one leaks, you'll still have the others.

jefals
10-08-2015, 12:42
I have no experience with these but Zpacks has some add on shoulder pads:

http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/strap_pads.shtml
Thanks! That looks like what I'm looking for. I appreciate it!

jefals
10-08-2015, 13:03
A few things.

Maybe you need a bigger or better-fitting pack? If you're pack fits well, the weight should be mostly on your hips, and the shoulder straps should almost float above your shoulders, with little or no weight there.

Also, it sounds like you attached your bladder to the back of the pack. The heaviest items should be closest to your back. If you add a lot of weight to the back of the pack (far from your back), it pulls the pack back and that pulls on your shoulder. Try it inside. Or, better yet, switch to 3 2-L bladders so that you can put a couple in your side pockets and one at the top of the pack, nearest your back. I wouldn't even think about using a huge bladder like that because if you're doing a long water carry and it leaks, you're screwed. With smaller bladders, if one leaks, you'll still have the others.
You made some good points. I don't like having the bladders inside the pack; I've had too many leaks with especially the camelbak 3l when it's inside. Then, by the time I get the pack off, get it opened up and everything out so I can access the bladder, a lot has leaked out, so it's back to the filter. Not to mention everything wet inside.
So, I do put the bladder on the outside.
I also find I like having the extra room that gives me inside.
I haven't tried it, but I think the side pockets on my pack (hyperlight mountain gear 2400) are too tight for a bladder. But I do have a 1l Nalgene in one of them, for some backup. I plan to replace that with a larger one.
I did consider 2 3ls. Camelbak has a 3l that comes in its own form-fitting backpack. So, I tried wearing that thing, piggybacked on with my main pack - by t it's too cumbersome...
Btw, I don't plan to use this 6l all the time - just when I'm unsure about the water situation - or when I do know that the water availability will be a problem.

KidA24
10-08-2015, 13:17
How do you keep your stuff dry in the rain?

I use a trash compactor bag to keep my stuff dry and when I had to carry my dirty water bag full (4L, carrying 6L total), I closed up the compactor bag as normal, and put the 4L bag laying flat right on top of that, so if it leaked, all that got wet was my backpack.

Casey & Gina
10-08-2015, 17:15
Have you considered using a different brand of bladder? I have heard a fair number of reports of Camelbaks leaking. The only way my Platypus Hoser is going to leak is if it gets punctured or otherwise ruptures beyond repair. It doesn't have an easy way to fill it, but that also means it doesn't have an easy way to leak. I have a quick disconnect in the hydration line, so to refill I disconnect the foot of hose with the bite valve, attach my dirty water bag and filter, and squeeze filtered water directly into the bladder without ever having to open my pack. Sometimes simplicity is valuable. As KidA24 suggests above, I do use a waterproof pack liner as well - the only thing not kept sealed in it is the water, so if it does end up ruptured, no big deal.

As for fitting bladders in alternative pockets - that depends on how much water you put into them. My wife has a child carrier that accommodates a 2L bladder in a pretty tight pocket. So they advertise. I imagine cramming a full 2L bladder in there would be a job that would get old fast. She uses a 3L bladder the same as mine though, and then filling via the same method I mentioned above, we can get 3L in there without any drama. Water is heavy though, especially if you are actually going to carry 6L - you want that weight as close to your body as possible.

Casey & Gina
10-08-2015, 17:15
Have you considered using a different brand of bladder? I have heard a fair number of reports of Camelbaks leaking. The only way my Platypus Hoser is going to leak is if it gets punctured or otherwise ruptures beyond repair. It doesn't have an easy way to fill it, but that also means it doesn't have an easy way to leak. I have a quick disconnect in the hydration line, so to refill I disconnect the foot of hose with the bite valve, attach my dirty water bag and filter, and squeeze filtered water directly into the bladder without ever having to open my pack. Sometimes simplicity is valuable. As KidA24 suggests above, I do use a waterproof pack liner as well - the only thing not kept sealed in it is the water, so if it does end up ruptured, no big deal.

As for fitting bladders in alternative pockets - that depends on how much water you put into them. My wife has a child carrier that accommodates a 2L bladder in a pretty tight pocket. So they advertise. I imagine cramming a full 2L bladder in there would be a job that would get old fast. She uses a 3L bladder the same as mine though, and then filling via the same method I mentioned above, we can get 3L in there without any drama. Water is heavy though, especially if you are actually going to carry 6L - you want that weight as close to your body as possible.

TexasBob
10-08-2015, 18:02
Try a seat belt pad on each shoulder strap. Works for me.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/36065998?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227025325200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=59235395448&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=84277558848&veh=sem (http://www.walmart.com/ip/36065998?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227025325200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=59235395448&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=84277558848&veh=sem)

jefals
10-08-2015, 19:42
Have you considered using a different brand of bladder? I have heard a fair number of reports of Camelbaks leaking. The only way my Platypus Hoser is going to leak is if it gets punctured or otherwise ruptures beyond repair. It doesn't have an easy way to fill it, but that also means it doesn't have an easy way to leak. I have a quick disconnect in the hydration line, so to refill I disconnect the foot of hose with the bite valve, attach my dirty water bag and filter, and squeeze filtered water directly into the bladder without ever having to open my pack. Sometimes simplicity is valuable. As KidA24 suggests above, I do use a waterproof pack liner as well - the only thing not kept sealed in it is the water, so if it does end up ruptured, no big deal.

As for fitting bladders in alternative pockets - that depends on how much water you put into them. My wife has a child carrier that accommodates a 2L bladder in a pretty tight pocket. So they advertise. I imagine cramming a full 2L bladder in there would be a job that would get old fast. She uses a 3L bladder the same as mine though, and then filling via the same method I mentioned above, we can get 3L in there without any drama. Water is heavy though, especially if you are actually going to carry 6L - you want that weight as close to your body as possible.

Yes, when I first experienced problems with the 3l camelbak leaking inside the pack, I got a 2.5 l osprey, which worked fine at first. The 2nd time I hiked with it, it started leaking also -- while it was inside the pack, and it started leaking as soon as I started walking, but that was because I didn't have the top screwed on correctly. (Does anyone else have trouble getting the tops to these things screwed on right?)
The 6L one is MSR. (This one has a lid like a regular screw top. Easy to get on and off). And if I can fill it from the tube, I might just rethink my idea of wanting it outside the pack. But so far, whenever I've had problems with leaks, it's always been when the bag was inside a completely crammed full pack.
Re. side pockets -- Right now I have the shovel, tp, hand wipes in one side pocket, and tent poles and nalgene in the other. So, the side pockets are kinda spoken for.
Question: The built-in pocket for the bladder, inside the pack, is sewn into the inside back of the pack -- in other words, farther away from your back. I guess, for really correct weight distribution, shouldn't it be right up against your back?
I do still keep the 3L inside, if I'm hiking with a day-pack.

jefals
10-08-2015, 19:44
Try a seat belt pad on each shoulder strap. Works for me.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/36065998?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227025325200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=59235395448&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=84277558848&veh=sem (http://www.walmart.com/ip/36065998?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227025325200&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=59235395448&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=84277558848&veh=sem)

Looks like a good idea, thanks! I think my daughter suggested this also. But I ordered those things cenwalker suggested from zpacks -- look like those are made specifically for hiking.

jefals
10-08-2015, 19:52
How do you keep your stuff dry in the rain?

I use a trash compactor bag to keep my stuff dry and when I had to carry my dirty water bag full (4L, carrying 6L total), I closed up the compactor bag as normal, and put the 4L bag laying flat right on top of that, so if it leaked, all that got wet was my backpack.
I know lots of folks use those trash bags for that purpose. I haven't yet. I may start. I just want to avoid the bag leaking, and so far I haven't had to deal with rain.

scrabbler
10-08-2015, 21:05
Burger had it right - your problem is your hip belt / weight distribution, not the shoulder straps. The force will still go somewhere - the new straps might not be digging into your skin, but perhaps you'll start getting back or neck aches.

Slo-go'en
10-08-2015, 22:40
I was wondering why the heck you'd want to carry 6L of water - that's like 12 pounds and a large volume - then I saw where your from :) Your going to have trouble no matter what with an internal frame pack. Personally, if I needed to carry that much water I'd use a frame pack with some kind of jig to hold plastic quart bottles. Maybe lash a plastic milk crate to the bottom of the pack.

Vegan Packer
10-08-2015, 22:41
ZPacks makes shoulder pads.

jefals
10-09-2015, 01:14
Burger had it right - your problem is your hip belt / weight distribution, not the shoulder straps. The force will still go somewhere - the new straps might not be digging into your skin, but perhaps you'll start getting back or neck aches.
Yes, I agree. I know about the weight distribution. But again, this is a big 13+ pound bag of water and I don't want to carry it inside the pack, so I have no way around this problem that I can think of. Someone mentioned carrying it on top of the pack -- I'm visualizing trying to lay it out horizontally, so I'll give that a shot and see if I can get it attached that way, and if it helps. I'll keep an open mind, but seems logical to me that even if I do get that to work, it's still going to be adding that pressure to my shoulders.

jefals
10-09-2015, 01:28
I was wondering why the heck you'd want to carry 6L of water - that's like 12 pounds and a large volume - then I saw where your from :) Your going to have trouble no matter what with an internal frame pack. Personally, if I needed to carry that much water I'd use a frame pack with some kind of jig to hold plastic quart bottles. Maybe lash a plastic milk crate to the bottom of the pack.
That's it exactly! And right now I've got more brawn than brains when it comes to backpacking. I'm kinda new at it; only backpacked twice so far. The first time, I was wondering around lost for quite a while, but fortunately in an area with lots of water. This next hike I'm planning is at high elevation -- 8 - 10,000+, and there's only one lake, looks like it's maybe 10 or 12 miles from the start. And this time of year, it's going to be pretty deserted up there.
So, just want to be extra careful when it comes to water. I did a test-hike with this bladder a couple days ago on a 5 mile hike with an 800 foot climb -- albeit at a much lower elevation (somewhere in the neighborhood between say 1,000 and 2500 feet). So I know what it feels like carrying the thing. I know the weight felt a little below my hips. I just don't think I can do anything about that. But it did bite into the shoulders, so at least I might be able to cushion that some.

jefals
10-09-2015, 01:29
ZPacks makes shoulder pads.
Yes, someone else mentioned that. I ordered them; I think that's exactly what I was looking for.

Traveler
10-09-2015, 06:41
Yes, when I first experienced problems with the 3l camelbak leaking inside the pack, I got a 2.5 l osprey, which worked fine at first. The 2nd time I hiked with it, it started leaking also -- while it was inside the pack, and it started leaking as soon as I started walking, but that was because I didn't have the top screwed on correctly. (Does anyone else have trouble getting the tops to these things screwed on right?)
The 6L one is MSR. (This one has a lid like a regular screw top. Easy to get on and off). And if I can fill it from the tube, I might just rethink my idea of wanting it outside the pack. But so far, whenever I've had problems with leaks, it's always been when the bag was inside a completely crammed full pack.
Re. side pockets -- Right now I have the shovel, tp, hand wipes in one side pocket, and tent poles and nalgene in the other. So, the side pockets are kinda spoken for.
Question: The built-in pocket for the bladder, inside the pack, is sewn into the inside back of the pack -- in other words, farther away from your back. I guess, for really correct weight distribution, shouldn't it be right up against your back?
I do still keep the 3L inside, if I'm hiking with a day-pack.

Not having the top secured properly accounts for most of the bladder leaks I have ever seen. Some brands are more susceptible to this than others, the Osprey bladder system is one that you have to pay attention to when closing it up. If the pack is over filled and/or has the adjustment straps very tight, the bladder will be squeezed and water will be forced out through the lid unless its properly sealed. On any of these bladders, once you have secured the lid, squeeze the bladder. If air leaks out around the cover it means the bladder is not sealed and you should remove and reattach the top until no air escapes when squeezed.

Most packs I have ever seen or used has the water bladder pocket stitched into the back of the pack, close to the body. I don't think I have seen a pack that has the bladder on the outside of the back furthest away from the body. I presume you have moved up into the 6L range due to terrain and water needs in California, a good precaution if you are doing a lot of miles or camping in places water is scarce this time of year. As pointed out, if you are getting padded shoulder pads to carry the 13 pounds of water along with other gear, you are treating the symptom and not the root problem. You should have the full bladder as close to your back as possible, which typically will be in the pack. Weight of the load should be mostly on your hips. If you can't get the weight on your hips, you may want to look at a different pack that will better support the 13 pounds of live water weight along with other gear and food. It doesn't take a lot of additional weight to change the way your pack fits and causes a change of pack to accommodate the new load demand.

Venchka
10-09-2015, 08:30
There are so many things going wrong here.
A space deficient and load challenged pack.
A 6 liter container that is heavier than virtually free alternatives.
All of the water in a single container.
Load placement gone terribly wrong.
I could probably go on, but those are the high points.
I have 4 1.5 liter empty water bottles from the supermarket. 34 grams ea., 136 grams total. 26 grams lighter than the MSR 6 liter Dromlite. Burger stated what I have known since forever: Don't put all of your water in a single container. True for hiking/backpacking, cycle touring, sailboats, etc.
GOOGLE "How to load a backpack". Good illustrations and descriptions abound on the internet. Move the relatively light stuff in your outside pockets to the back of the pack. A 1.5 liter water bottle in each side pocket. The other two up high inside your pack.
By the way, 6 1 liter bottles weigh more than 4 1.5 liter bottles, according to my digital scale. I was surprised too. 1 liter = 32 grams. 1.5 liter = 34 grams. Nalgenes are a lot heavier. I know because I have 4. Semi-retired now.
Thanks for reminding me once more not to covet the latest and greatest Gizmos. My antiques work. They are paid for. :D :cool:
Cheers!

Wayne

Venchka
10-09-2015, 08:46
ps: I just went to HMG and looked at all of their packs. The photos of the interior of their packs show the mesh pocket on the same side of the pack as the shoulder straps where it should be. The clue is the logo patch which is placed just above the where the shoulder straps are anchored. In the photo of the interior you can see the same logo patch just above the mesh pocket. Check your pack again. Maybe your mesh pocket was attached incorrectly.

Wayne

jefals
10-09-2015, 10:29
Not having the top secured properly accounts for most of the bladder leaks I have ever seen. Some brands are more susceptible to this than others, the Osprey bladder system is one that you have to pay attention to when closing it up. If the pack is over filled and/or has the adjustment straps very tight, the bladder will be squeezed and water will be forced out through the lid unless its properly sealed. On any of these bladders, once you have secured the lid, squeeze the bladder. If air leaks out around the cover it means the bladder is not sealed and you should remove and reattach the top until no air escapes when squeezed.

Most packs I have ever seen or used has the water bladder pocket stitched into the back of the pack, close to the body. I don't think I have seen a pack that has the bladder on the outside of the back furthest away from the body. I presume you have moved up into the 6L range due to terrain and water needs in California, a good precaution if you are doing a lot of miles or camping in places water is scarce this time of year. As pointed out, if you are getting padded shoulder pads to carry the 13 pounds of water along with other gear, you are treating the symptom and not the root problem. You should have the full bladder as close to your back as possible, which typically will be in the pack. Weight of the load should be mostly on your hips. If you can't get the weight on your hips, you may want to look at a different pack that will better support the 13 pounds of live water weight along with other gear and food. It doesn't take a lot of additional weight to change the way your pack fits and causes a change of pack to accommodate the new load demand.

YOU ARE RIGHT about the placement of the pocket for the bladder -- I just went and checked, and I spoke incorrectly -- it is on the inside, near the back. Just now I could barely squeeze the 6L inside it, but it's not nearly full anymore. I have a feeling if I fill it up, it won't fit -- but I'll check this afternoon.
I did have the adjustment straps very tight. Isn't it true that the tighter you have those, the higher up the pack will be? Because that's what I want in order to get the weight on my hips.
The 1st time I had a leak inside the pack, it was with the 3l camelbak. I was also carrying a bear cannister in there, and everything else really squeezed tight; pack would barely close. I didn't notice it leaking, and closed it up -- pulled the straps tight. When I started walking -- it started leaking. When I then opened the pack and removed the camelbak, I could NOT get it to leak. I squeezed it hard, and it would not leak. turned it upside down, etc. No leak. I went down to REI and demonstrated this to the guys there -- and they were just as flummoxed as I was -- neither they nor I could figure out why it was leaking inside the pack, yet you could remove it and squeeze it as hard as you like --- it still wouldn't leak.
But maybe the tight straps was the cause -- I'm going to check that out.

As for treating the symptoms -- I agree. I guess I'm not the only one doing that, or Zpacks wouldn't be selling those things, tho, right? And yes, I only want to use that 6l where the supply of water is questionable. I don't normally want to be carrying that behemoth! Although, I DO like the way the lid screws on, so maybe I WILL use it -- just don't need to fill it all the way up.

Thanks much for the tip about the straps -- I'll see if loosening those up solves the issue with the camelbak.

jefals
10-09-2015, 10:32
ps: I just went to HMG and looked at all of their packs. The photos of the interior of their packs show the mesh pocket on the same side of the pack as the shoulder straps where it should be. The clue is the logo patch which is placed just above the where the shoulder straps are anchored. In the photo of the interior you can see the same logo patch just above the mesh pocket. Check your pack again. Maybe your mesh pocket was attached incorrectly.

Wayne

Yes, after reading AT Traveler's post, I went out and checked mine again, and I had posted incorrectly; Mine really is right up against the back. Since I had quit using that pouch, I was speaking from my "very infallible" memory! :)

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 10:42
I know the weight felt a little below my hips. I just don't think I can do anything about that. But it did bite into the shoulders, so at least I might be able to cushion that some.

Find a reputable outfitter near you, take your pack loaded with weight, and ask them to adjust your pack for you - this may work wonders. Some places and some employees are better than others, so if you don't have good luck the first time, try again when somebody else is working, or another outfitter. Do your shoulder belts move up and down on the pack? If so try on your own moving them between lower and higher extremes and seeing how the pack feels. Torso height isn't always relative to total height. Measuring your torso height may be useful, but may not if, like mine, your pack simply has indicators for Small, Medium, and Large with no mention of what exactly that means. The hips should carry the majority of the weight. The hip belt should be very tight and rest on the crest of your hip bones, and the shoulder straps should be adjusted such that there is neither an excess amount of space between the back of your shoulders and the straps, nor should they be set so low that they are pulling down on your shoulders. The shoulder straps should only pull back a bit, to keep the pack from falling backwards, but really should not have any downward weight on them.

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 11:18
Yes, when I first experienced problems with the 3l camelbak leaking inside the pack, I got a 2.5 l osprey, which worked fine at first. The 2nd time I hiked with it, it started leaking also -- while it was inside the pack, and it started leaking as soon as I started walking, but that was because I didn't have the top screwed on correctly. (Does anyone else have trouble getting the tops to these things screwed on right?)

The only opening on a Platypus Hoser (http://amzn.com/B001KZGYMW) is where the hydration tube attaches. There is no separate opening for filling. Assuming you have that screwed on correctly, there won't be any leaks unless either the L-shaped attachment for the hose breaks or the bag ruptures. You can easily use a standard cap instead, to keep an extra bladder capped off for reserve. Or you can do what I would (detailed below) which is a little more involved. Not trying to sell you on Platypus products necessarily - it's just what I found at my local outfitter when I was looking for something simple...the simplicity is what I am advocating.


whenever I've had problems with leaks, it's always been when the bag was inside a completely crammed full pack.

I always cram my pack full. I have a large pack, but my wife carries a child carrier with our infant and his necessities, so I end up carrying all the gear for both of us. I use the compression straps to squeeze the pack contents as close to my body as possible. Sometimes when I have recently refilled my pack (I do loosen up the compression straps for this), I will experience occasional water drips from the bite valve hanging over my shoulder, because there is a lot of pressure on the bladder. On the bright side, when I am thirsty and go for a drink, it gushes out into my mouth, haha... Point is that I put it under stress and have never had a leak. I put a Platypus dirty water bag (http://amzn.com/B00AZVMS72) into my pack once to carry extra water to a dry campsite. It uses a ziplock top and is what I use for squeezing water into my Sawyer filter, and though I have never had it leak on me during filtration, it leaked inside my pack and got everything wet.

Just to illustrate that brand is not the important factor as much as design - I like the Platypus dirty water bag as it is more durable than the Sawyer ones, but it sucks for carrying water so I don't use it for that anymore. I don't like Platypus's filtration system and instead use a tried-and-true Sawyer filter. Just adding that disclaimer as there are a lot of Platypus brand parts in my setup, but I think the same thing could be done for less money with some alternative brands.

I cannot highly recommend enough the Quick Disconnect Kits (http://amzn.com/B001HAFJ3A). You'll need two sets for the setup I use. The Platypus ones are what I consider rather expensive at $20 per, but they do work flawlessly. This Sawyer kit (http://amzn.com/B00EURFBKI) looks to include identical-looking quick-disconnect parts along with a cap with a male end which is an essential part of the setup as I will detail below. So where I spent $50 on two quick disconnect kits plus the cap adapter separately, it looks like you could get away with spending $10 for the same result. You cut your hydration tube about a foot up from the bite valve, and install one of these kits - the female connector should be on the bladder side, because it does not allow water to come out when disconnected. This means when you have just squeezed a bunch of water into your laden pack, when you disconnect water doesn't start shooting out all over the place - it stays nice and tidy. The second kit is needed so that you have an extra male connector, which you attach to a short piece of hose, which in turn connects to the output end of your filter or a soft water bottle or second bladder, depending how you like to do things.

Personally, I filter water into a soft water bottle, then attach a cap to it which has a hose connector, attached to a short piece of hose and a male quick disconnect adapter. Once I have filtered 2L of water into the bottle, I screw on the cap with the adapter connected, snap it into my hydration tube, and squeeze all the water into my bag. Once done, I disconnect without any water making a mess. My bladder holds 3L, so I can stop there if I only feel 2L is needed, or I can filter more water and top it off. If you have a second bladder, you can use the extra female quick disconnect adapter on it's tube, and store it somewhere else in your pack with the tube coming over your shoulder as well. Then when hiking, should you empty one bladder, you can easily transfer your bite valve end to the other bladder without even stopping. If you used 2 3L bladders, even if one were strapped to an inefficient place on your pack such as the back, you could have half your water weight carried close to your body and drink from the less optimally-placed one first. If you wanted more redundancy, as others suggested above, you could use 3 2L bladders, or use a 3L bladder in conjunction with some 1L bladders placed more strategically in tighter places in your pack.

Some time soon I will make a video demonstrating my setup to give a better idea.

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 11:28
I also highly recommend the Sea-to-Summit waterproof pack liner (http://amzn.com/B000T2FLGW) - yes it is more expensive than a trash compactor bag, but it is also lighter. I really like the Ultra-Sil material and feel confident using it, plus the roll top that works the same as a dry bag adds an additional degree of comfort - if my pack ends up dropped in a stream or something, I don't have to worry about whether or not water is getting in the top - I know it's not. With this setup, I don't need to carry a rain cover at all.

I don't know what size of pack you have, but most likely the Small size is all you need. My pack is large, but the small pack liner fits the main upper compartment well. I have a separate compartment for my sleeping bag where it is stored in it's own dry compression sack (http://amzn.com/B00HS3ATY4).

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 11:40
One last comment, back to the original subject of extra shoulder padding. I recently changed from a lighter-weight pack to a heavier, more rugged pack by the same brand with similar carrying capacity. I decided to try this to see how it felt, after feeling somewhat uncomfortable carrying a heavy load in the lighter-weight pack, which it's not rated for. The beefier pack uses a different frame design and has a pivoting hip belt feature the same as my wife's child carrier, having tried that I decided it was worth a try.

The heavier pack has a much more substantially-padded hip belt setup and carries a heavy load more comfortably to be sure, though it does weigh considerably more. However, since it's designed for heavier loads, the padding in the shoulder straps is stiffer, not as soft as the lighter pack, and does leave my shoulders feeling more uncomfortable after an all-day hike. It could be that your backpack uses a similar stiffer padding in the straps. It's not awful with my pack but I am really curious about those ZPacks pads now. Please let us know how you end up liking them, particularly whether the padding within them is softer than that of your shoulder straps! At one ounce and a low price point, it looks like it could be a worthwhile luxury upgrade. :)

jefals
10-09-2015, 11:49
There are so many things going wrong here.
A space deficient and load challenged pack.
A 6 liter container that is heavier than virtually free alternatives.
All of the water in a single container.
Load placement gone terribly wrong.
I could probably go on, but those are the high points.
I have 4 1.5 liter empty water bottles from the supermarket. 34 grams ea., 136 grams total. 26 grams lighter than the MSR 6 liter Dromlite. Burger stated what I have known since forever: Don't put all of your water in a single container. True for hiking/backpacking, cycle touring, sailboats, etc.
GOOGLE "How to load a backpack". Good illustrations and descriptions abound on the internet. Move the relatively light stuff in your outside pockets to the back of the pack. A 1.5 liter water bottle in each side pocket. The other two up high inside your pack.
By the way, 6 1 liter bottles weigh more than 4 1.5 liter bottles, according to my digital scale. I was surprised too. 1 liter = 32 grams. 1.5 liter = 34 grams. Nalgenes are a lot heavier. I know because I have 4. Semi-retired now.
Thanks for reminding me once more not to covet the latest and greatest Gizmos. My antiques work. They are paid for. :D :cool:
Cheers!

Wayne

You forgot one more: An inexperienced old geezer hiking alone in places he shouldn't be! :)
But Wayne, let's not be over-dramatic, ok? "Load Placement gone Terribly Wrong"? Hey, we're not investigating a plane crash or something, here! It just means that ole Jeff is gonna have a sore back. I've hiked with this setup, and I know what it's gonna feel like. Hey, btw, if you're carrying 6 liters of water in bottles in your side pockets -- well, what's that doing for your OWN weight distribution? And 26 grams? Are you kidding me? Can you actually reach those bottles in your side pockets? I know I wouldn't be able to, so I'd have to be taking my pack off and putting it back on everytime I wanted a drink -- rather than just sucking on that tube. I'd love to see a chart comparing the energy expenditure of two hikers; one carrying an extra 26 grams and reaching for a tube to get a drink, and the other without the extra weight, but having to take off his pack and put it back on everytime he wants a drink.
I know it's an excellent point about not having all the water in one source. I do carry an extra nalgene, but I do worry about that.

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 11:56
Find a reputable outfitter near you, take your pack loaded with weight, and ask them to adjust your pack for you

Oops, sorry I didn't see where you mentioned which pack you were using - just looked it up. It does not appear to be an adjustable type, but rather one that you order based on your measurements, so assuming you were measured correctly adjustment should not be an issue. Is this a frameless pack?

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 11:58
Haha, in the pictures on the product's website, there is a picture of somebody using a bladder in the same "gone terribly wrong" position, funny!

32231

jefals
10-09-2015, 12:00
Raptelan, you've just given me what looks like a TON of useful info! I wanted to respond and thank you -- but it's breakfast time here in CA. Thanks and I'll check that all out more closely later. I guess I'll have to look at the platypus. I do have one of those for a dirty bag, but only for a backup, because the REI rep told me that the one that comes with the sawyer breaks easy. So, it's there for backup, when/if the sawyer one breaks. I like what you said about the bladder not having an extra screw on lid. I don't know what it is about the osprey and camelbaks, but for some reason, I have trouble getting those lids on. The MSR one is easy to get on -- it's just like a simple, regular old screw-top.

jefals
10-09-2015, 12:10
Haha, in the pictures on the product's website, there is a picture of somebody using a bladder in the same "gone terribly wrong" position, funny!

32231

Hey that kinda looks like my pack. Hyperlite windrider. But that ain't me --- that guy's got more hair! But yeah, that's where I've got the bladder, but I have the top of the bladder caribiner'ed to the straps at the top. I also have a stuff sack across the top containing clothes -- shirts, longjohns, jacket, socks. But I think someone told me to try and lay the 6L bladder horizontally across the top. Is that gonna do me any good? It WOULD be closer to my back that way. Not sure if I can figure a way to secure it up there, but I'll give it a shot...

jefals
10-09-2015, 12:13
Oops, sorry I didn't see where you mentioned which pack you were using - just looked it up. It does not appear to be an adjustable type, but rather one that you order based on your measurements, so assuming you were measured correctly adjustment should not be an issue. Is this a frameless pack?
Yes, it is frameless. And I bought it from a guy that runs this 3 day "how to hike the AT" seminar up near Dahlonega, while I was there, so he measured me, etc. So I feel pretty good that he knew what he was doing.

Venchka
10-09-2015, 21:42
I'm older than dirt. Just about as smart as a bag of dirt. Everything I know I got from Mr. Fletcher back in the Dark Ages.
The Section Hiker praised your pack's side pockets because he could get his water bottles in and out easily. I said one bottle in each pocket leaving room for other things. The other two in your pack high and close to your back. It's all about getting the C.G. of the pack in the right place.
I place a 1 liter soft Platypus bottle in the top of my pack and run the tube through a zipper opening to my shoulder strap. Works fine. Refilled as needed.
HYOH. If your gear works for you, don't change it.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Casey & Gina
10-09-2015, 22:51
I'm older than dirt. Just about as smart as a bag of dirt. Everything I know I got from Mr. Fletcher back in the Dark Ages.

Reading The "New" (1974 edition) Complete Walker now, a great read. :)

Venchka
10-09-2015, 23:10
That is the book that I own. Just as relevant today as the day it was published.
Since my last post, curiosity got the better of me.
One of my camping relics is a soft water carrier. A bladder of sorts in Today Speak. I pulled it out of one of my gear bins. Made in the USA, like most of my gear. I was naturally curious about it's weight. I folded into a square about 6" on a side, purged most of the air out and plopped it on the scale. 3.44 ounces. Not too bad for an antique. Capacity? Two and one half Gallons. That's right. 2.5 gallons or just shy of 10 liters and a dry weight of 3.44 ounces. Perfect for my future plans to backpack in Big Bend NP.
I was ultralight before the hip kids invented the term.
Cheers!

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-10-2015, 03:10
If the section hiker can get stuff out of the side pockets of this pack, he's got longer arms than me. On my right side I've got the tent pokes in back and a Nalgene in front, and I can't get to that Nalgene.

So today, after listening to you guys, I studied up on my pack. As mentioned earlier, I bought it last year on the recommendation of a guy running an AT hiking school. And, never having any experience, I just went with what he said, and wouldn't have known if it's the right pack for me or not.
This is probably a great pack - for the AT. Where water is not an issue. But now you guys have me convinced that this pack is too small for the hiking I'm doing out here. This Hyperlite still might be a good brand- I just need a bigger one. Of course, I'm looking at 3 or 4 hundred dollars...OUCH!

Venchka
10-10-2015, 08:59
When you get into that price range and load requirements, you should definitely look at the packs from Seek Outside. The Unaweep and Divide deserve consideration. ULA, Gossamer Gear, Zimmerbuilt, Elemental Horizons, and others deserve a look as well. The Section Hiker and Backpacking Light have reviews out the wazoo.
Water bottles and side pockets: I just lined up some 1 liter bottles. Nalgene bottles are short and wide. I can see why it would be hard to reach one in a pocket. Essentia, Dasani, Trader Joe's, Smart Water and others are tall and slim and lighter. Take your Nalgene bottle with you and shop around. I'm partial to Essentia water and their bottles because they also fit my bike cages. The push-pull tops on their 20 ounce bottles also work on the 1 and 1.5 liter bottles. Very handy.
Packs are very personal. Find the one that is right for you not the herd. Right tool for the job.
Good luck.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-10-2015, 09:28
When you get into that price range and load requirements, you should definitely look at the packs from Seek Outside. The Unaweep and Divide deserve consideration. ULA, Gossamer Gear, Zimmerbuilt, Elemental Horizons, and others deserve a look as well. The Section Hiker and Backpacking Light have reviews out the wazoo.
Water bottles and side pockets: I just lined up some 1 liter bottles. Nalgene bottles are short and wide. I can see why it would be hard to reach one in a pocket. Essentia, Dasani, Trader Joe's, Smart Water and others are tall and slim and lighter. Take your Nalgene bottle with you and shop around. I'm partial to Essentia water and their bottles because they also fit my bike cages. The push-pull tops on their 20 ounce bottles also work on the 1 and 1.5 liter bottles. Very handy.
Packs are very personal. Find the one that is right for you not the herd. Right tool for the job.
Good luck.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
Ok, thanks Wayne.

Venchka
10-10-2015, 09:47
You're welcome. Us Gezzers have to stick together.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Venchka
10-10-2015, 10:10
My CRS is acting up.
Spell check says: Geezers.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-10-2015, 14:54
My CRS is acting up.
Spell check says: Geezers.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
Btw, this geezer did some enjoyable day-hiking in your neck of the woods last year about this time; Guadalupe. .. (peak? ) I think it's called, then the Window trail in big bend followed by Garner state park. Really enjoyed those 3 hikes, except, well, that window trail was pretty rocky! They probably all weee, but I just remember it about that one!

Venchka
10-10-2015, 16:19
I'm jealous. I have not been yet. Big Bend will be my winter backpacking destination. Can't wait.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-10-2015, 16:32
I'm jealous. I have not been yet. Big Bend will be my winter backpacking destination. Can't wait.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
I only spent 1 night there, but would love to go back for maybe a week. Have a great time there. - I think it's gonna be Death Valley for me.

Casey & Gina
10-10-2015, 17:57
So today, after listening to you guys, I studied up on my pack. As mentioned earlier, I bought it last year on the recommendation of a guy running an AT hiking school. And, never having any experience, I just went with what he said, and wouldn't have known if it's the right pack for me or not.
This is probably a great pack - for the AT. Where water is not an issue. But now you guys have me convinced that this pack is too small for the hiking I'm doing out here. This Hyperlite still might be a good brand- I just need a bigger one. Of course, I'm looking at 3 or 4 hundred dollars...OUCH!

Ouch indeed! As a person with two new packs sitting in his house wondering which, if either, to hold on to, I feel your pain. It is impossible to really know how a bag will work for you until you get out and put some miles on it. The one you have looks great for what it is, but it is going to hit it's weight limit for comfortable carrying before something more substantial. I don't think it matters so much which trail you are after, but how much your total gear weight, plus water enough to be comfortable, and food for as many days as you intend to be able to feed yourself for without a resupply, is.

Wayne - I just discovered Seek Outside yesterday, and their packs are really intriguing! Have you used one personally?

Venchka
10-10-2015, 20:18
Ouch indeed! As a person with two new packs sitting in his house wondering which, if either, to hold on to, I feel your pain. It is impossible to really know how a bag will work for you until you get out and put some miles on it. The one you have looks great for what it is, but it is going to hit it's weight limit for comfortable carrying before something more substantial. I don't think it matters so much which trail you are after, but how much your total gear weight, plus water enough to be comfortable, and food for as many days as you intend to be able to feed yourself for without a resupply, is.

Wayne - I just discovered Seek Outside yesterday, and their packs are really intriguing! Have you used one personally?

No I have not, nor have I even seen one. Reviews are very good by people who know about packs. Folks at Backpackinglight even liked it. They never like anything that isn't weightless.
My pack inventory consists of a Jensen pack from Rivendell Mountain Works and a Dana Designs ArcFlex Terraplane. If I find a money tree, a pack from Seek Outside will be on my very short list.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-11-2015, 04:09
That seek outside looks great. Being able to adjust it while you're wearing it, and able to change out bags depending on what kind of hike you're doing -- do y'all know of any other brands you can do that kind of stuff with?

I'd love to have a pack you could easily get a bear cannister in along with everything else; looks like this one mig g t just do that.
But if you want to see it I guess you either have to go to Montana or portland....
(Well, I kinda wanted to go to both those places anyway... )

MuddyWaters
10-11-2015, 07:34
If wt is on shoulders, the pack doesnt have the structure needed, or the torso length is too short.

How i carry 6.5 L water is two 1L bottles in each side pocket, and a 2L platy in front mesh pocket. The 2L platy will hold 2.5 L actually.

Total container wt is 4.7 oz. And there is redundancy so a single failure doesnt endanger you...

MuddyWaters
10-11-2015, 07:34
Damn duplicate post

Venchka
10-11-2015, 09:24
I wonder if you could get a fitting/test drive in Grand Junction, CO?
Muddy,
I only get 4.5 liters in your example. Thanks for the stealth capacity of 2.5 liters. An extra half liter could be important in places like Big Bend.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

MuddyWaters
10-11-2015, 09:32
Muddy,
I only get 4.5 liters in your example. Thanks for the stealth capacity of 2.5 liters. An extra half liter could be important in places like Big Bend.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

2 x 1L in each side pocket=4L
Plus the platy makes 6.5

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 09:35
That seek outside looks great. Being able to adjust it while you're wearing it, and able to change out bags depending on what kind of hike you're doing -- do y'all know of any other brands you can do that kind of stuff with?

External frames are rare these days. Mine is an internal frame but quite large - it could fit a bear can in the main compartment and also has a 15L extension on the top that I will probably only ever use if I have to carry a can.

I want to try out an old school external frame pack sometime just to have the experience - might have to buy a Super Tioga or something on eBay. Wayne's two packs are real legends!

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 09:35
That seek outside looks great. Being able to adjust it while you're wearing it, and able to change out bags depending on what kind of hike you're doing -- do y'all know of any other brands you can do that kind of stuff with?

External frames are rare these days. Mine is an internal frame but quite large - it could fit a bear can in the main compartment and also has a 15L extension on the top that I will probably only ever use if I have to carry a can.

I want to try out an old school external frame pack sometime just to have the experience - might have to buy a Super Tioga or something on eBay. Wayne's two packs are real legends!

Venchka
10-11-2015, 09:35
Sorry. It's way too early for me to attempt any mathematics. I missed the 2 bottles PER side pocket.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-11-2015, 10:41
If wt is on shoulders, the pack doesnt have the structure needed, or the torso length is too short.

How i carry 6.5 L water is two 1L bottles in each side pocket, and a 2L platy in front mesh pocket. The 2L platy will hold 2.5 L actually.

Total container wt is 4.7 oz. And there is redundancy so a single failure doesnt endanger you...

Yes, you folks have me convinced, my pack doesn't have the structure. I mean it probably does for most of my hiking, but not where...
a) I need a bear can, or b) I want to carry a large qty of water. Or both.
It's only a 40L pack, and I've already hiked with it in a place where a bear bag was a strong recommendation (although, I didn't see anybody else up there with one). It was a MAJOR pain walking around with that thing and everything else crammed in around it.

Muddy, with the right pack, I guess I'd feel pretty good with your suggestion -- and even trading in your 1Ls for Wayne's 1.5s. That way I could get an extra 2L, for 8.5. (I know it's a lot of water. So far, at my experience level (or lack thereof), and hiking places I'm unfamiliar with out here in drought country, I REALLY like carrying all the h2o I possibly can)...

But I've been told repeatedly now that the weight needs to be closer to the back -- and higher up, right? What about all this water in the sides? With 4 1Ls, that's already 8+ pounds in the sides, and with 1.5L, it's over 13 pounds -- just in the side pockets...

MuddyWaters
10-11-2015, 10:49
Yes, you folks have me convinced, my pack doesn't have the structure. I mean it probably does for most of my hiking, but not where...
a) I need a bear can, or b) I want to carry a large qty of water. Or both.
It's only a 40L pack, and I've already hiked with it in a place where a bear bag was a strong recommendation (although, I didn't see anybody else up there with one). It was a MAJOR pain walking around with that thing and everything else crammed in around it.

Muddy, with the right pack, I guess I'd feel pretty good with your suggestion -- and even trading in your 1Ls for Wayne's 1.5s. That way I could get an extra 2L, for 8.5. (I know it's a lot of water. So far, at my experience level (or lack thereof), and hiking places I'm unfamiliar with out here in drought country, I REALLY like carrying all the h2o I possibly can)...

But I've been told repeatedly now that the weight needs to be closer to the back -- and higher up, right? What about all this water in the sides? With 4 1Ls, that's already 8+ pounds in the sides, and with 1.5L, it's over 13 pounds -- just in the side pockets...

With a HEAVY pack, you need the center of mass where you control it with less effort. If you are talking 50 lb loads, id say it matters and more care should be placed on weight locations.

If you aare only 30-35 lbs with that kind of water load, which is the max ive ever been, it doesnr matter as much. At least it never did to me.

Venchka
10-11-2015, 12:27
I think we're finally getting somewhere.
40-50 pounds vs. 30-35 pounds are two different stories and different packs. Figure out what you think your worst case maximum load will be and get back to us and we will try to help you.
With no prior thought or knowledge, I wound up with two packs: the Jensen pack for up to 30-35 pounds, usually less. The Terraplane for more weight than I care to think about.
Good luck!

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 14:02
Center of Gravity is what matters. If that center is back too far, you will have to lean forward to compensate. The straighter you can stand the better. High vs. Low matters to a lesser degree, and may even be better without a frame... With a frame. having weight higher means that it is more vertical in relation to where the frame meets the hip belt, thus it pulls the back back less. Without a frame I don't know if it matters, and speculating it may even be worse if it causes more weight on your shoulders. I don't carry water in the side pockets. My pack has a long zippered pocket on each side above the bottom pockets that can accommodate bladders or bottles if need be, though I'd have to take the pack off to get to them or have someone else retrieve it. If I was going through a long, dry hike I could carry 9L between 3 bladders. I groan just thinking about it!

jefals
10-11-2015, 14:24
Well, I'll double check, but I think that seek-outside website is talking about weights way in excess of 100 pounds! (I guess they're talking serious photographers, maybe...Or hunters?)
So, reading more about external vs internal, I've come across a blurb talking about that the external is more "wobbly", so you might be more prone to slipping in certain terrains... That's enough right there for me to eliminate externals.
Seems like you can study these packs, and I can learn some from folks like you guys and different websites -- but then, you get to a point where you just have to decide and buy one. I guess I could take advantage of REI's policy and try out several, but I'd feel I was abusing their policy if I did too much of that.

Venchka
10-11-2015, 17:27
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Including what I am about to say.
Hillary, Whittaker, and numerous others summited Everest with external frame packs. Conversely, countless climbers have been seriously injured or died using internal, external and frameless packs.
Colin Fletcher used a Trailwise external frame and honking great sack from The Ski Hut in Berkley, CA when he hiked the inner canyon of the Grand Canyon and Death Valley. Safety is not about the pack.

The Evolution Frames from Seek Outside aren't the same as the original Kelty and Jansport style frames. They are a hybrid internal-external frame and bag.

The evolution of the internal frame pack had more to do with fashion and imitation than function. Climbers adopted the internal frame packs for certain routes. Everybody wanted to be like the cool climbers. The rest is history.

Maybe you need a custom pack from Dan McHale. Dan's packs can be a bear can and water toting load monster one minute and a stripped down day pack the next.

Perhaps a Jensen or Giant Jensen from Rivendell Mountain Works in Seattle.

I'm praying for the good health and time to use the gear I own.

End of rant.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 17:35
Also there are good external frame packs and bad ones, well-fitted to an individual and mismatched. Same for any other kind of pack.

Venchka
10-11-2015, 17:38
There it is.
Personal fitting is the key. Just like shoes.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 18:07
Really off-topic, but here is an interesting perspective on the Kelty Super Tioga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynIlrp3r_zY

jefals
10-11-2015, 18:23
Well thanks Raptelan and Venchka,for all the great advice. I liked Dan McHale's site. Liked Seek Outside also...
Well, seeing as how I'm in Sacramento, it might be a pleasant drive up to Portland and Seattle to check both of these companies out .
First, tho, I guess I'll check REI. if they have comparable packs to either of these, it would sure be easier!

Casey & Gina
10-11-2015, 18:31
Certainly REI's selection works great for the majority! My lighter pack (Deuter ACT Lite) was purchased from an REI, and the heavier one (Deuter Aircontact Pro) was ordered from their website. Now convincing myself to return either, is a challenge!

Trail Wing
10-11-2015, 20:37
Question about the hydration bladders.. I recently purchased an Osprey 2L Bladder from REI. When I fill it I add ice since I am dayhiking and cold water is nice. Anyway, I noticed that the bladder sweats like crazy. Is this just because of the cold water or do they always sweat? I did notice that you really have to be careful when closing the lid or it will misthread. I like the magnet on the Osprey to keep the mouthpiece on the sternum strap.

I have a ULA Circuit backpack and I love it!
Thanks, Nicole

jefals
10-11-2015, 20:50
Question about the hydration bladders.. I recently purchased an Osprey 2L Bladder from REI. When I fill it I add ice since I am dayhiking and cold water is nice. Anyway, I noticed that the bladder sweats like crazy. Is this just because of the cold water or do they always sweat? I did notice that you really have to be careful when closing the lid or it will misthread. I like the magnet on the Osprey to keep the mouthpiece on the sternum strap.

I have a ULA Circuit backpack and I love it!
Thanks, Nicole
I'm not sure about the sweating but I agree with you about closing the lid. It's real similar to the camelbak lid; I don't know why they have to be so difficult to close!
I like the little magnet gizmo too. Except I have a bunch of tiny rocks stuck to it that are hard to get off.

jefals
10-11-2015, 20:59
Could you get a bear cannister in that ULA pack ok? I'm starting to think I want a pack built a specific provision for carrying one of those. My last hike I had a hard time finding any trees that looked like they'd be good for bear-bagging. Plus, if I have an easy way to carry a cannister, that's a lot less hassle than bagging..

Trail Wing
10-11-2015, 21:08
They say you can - they have a bunch of great videos on Youtube - search ULAEquipment and look for the reviews produced by ULAEquipment. The Circuit is a 35L pack but they have larger packs too.

jefals
10-11-2015, 21:22
Ok, thanks...I'll check it out.

Trail Wing
10-11-2015, 21:39
Forgot to mention that there are actually extra loops on the shoulder straps in the front so you can technically carry 2 water bottles in very reachable positions. Alternatively, if you don't use those loops for water bottles you can store your trekking poles easily in front of you when not needed. Large side pockets (that aren't mesh was a plus for me - I hate mesh). And a very lightweight pack for all the "bells and whistles" it is... I am not a paid spokesperson, lol, just love the pack!

Venchka
10-11-2015, 21:48
ULA has a pack selection page at their web site. They clearly state which packs will accept a bear can.
Contact Dan via phone or email and make arrangements to visit. It's a small operation. That said, getting measured in person and hopefully picking up the demo pack at the same time would save a lot of time and shipping charges.
I'm envious already. Good luck.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Malto
10-11-2015, 21:49
Others have said this but I will reiterate. Shoulder pads are a bandaid for other very solvable problems. Weight distribution, total weight and choices in how water is carried as well as how much is carried are the issues but well beyond the scope of your question. I would use the pain in your shoulders as motivation to look a bit closer at all of these topics.

At the ALDHA Gathering this weekend I finally met the infamous Billy Goat. He had a shirt that had built in pads similar to some women's clothing. Have to admit that this was an out of the box idea.

jefals
10-11-2015, 21:56
Bear cannisters, water easily accessible in the front - I'm starting to like it already!

Venchka
10-11-2015, 22:00
Did you find this page at McHale packs?
Bear cans:

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/Detail%20Hi%20Rez%20Pages/Bear%20Cannister%20Page.htm

I hope this helps.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-11-2015, 22:16
Did you find this page at McHale packs?
Bear cans:

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/Detail%20Hi%20Rez%20Pages/Bear%20Cannister%20Page.htm

I hope this helps.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
Not sure.. it's not coming up on my phone. I was looking at McHale's a little earlier on my tablet, but too lazy to go back upstairs and get it right now! :)...maybe when the game ( 49ers and giants ) is over!
Hey Wayne, you've already got me driving up to Portland and Seattle, and now I have to go to ULA too? Where are they? (My luck, they're probably in Boynton Beach or something! :)

jefals
10-11-2015, 22:28
But yes, I did look at what McHale's had for attaching the can at the top. I like it. I had tried to attach mine that way, but my straps weren't long enough and that can was too unwieldy. So, just had to cram it inside, on top of the sleeping bag and cram everything else in around it.

Venchka
10-11-2015, 23:47
At a certain point as Dan's packs increase circumference he says what the minimum size is for a bear can horizontal inside the pack. Probably on the S-SARC pack pages.
ULA is in Utah. The address and phone number is on their web page. There's also a page listing dealers.
Eli rocks!

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

jefals
10-12-2015, 00:38
At a certain point as Dan's packs increase circumference he says what the minimum size is for a bear can horizontal inside the pack. Probably on the S-SARC pack pages.
ULA is in Utah. The address and phone number is on their web page. There's also a page listing dealers.
Eli rocks!

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
Hmm...I'm tempted....Bryce, Zion...but I REALLY hope I can find something really good 7 miles down the,road at REI!

Traveler
10-12-2015, 06:11
Question about the hydration bladders.. I recently purchased an Osprey 2L Bladder from REI. When I fill it I add ice since I am dayhiking and cold water is nice. Anyway, I noticed that the bladder sweats like crazy. Is this just because of the cold water or do they always sweat? I did notice that you really have to be careful when closing the lid or it will misthread. I like the magnet on the Osprey to keep the mouthpiece on the sternum strap.

Thanks, Nicole

Cold surfaces meeting warm air, will produce condensation. Its difficult to beat physics in that regard, though keeping the bladder in a waterproof bag will lessen the condensation impact to contents of the pack. The lid on the Osprey bladders can be tricky and seem like its properly secured when its not. Squeezing the bladder once you think the lid is on properly will quickly tell you if the lid is tight if air does not escape.