Going into the Unknown: What's your opinion?

[BenOnAdventures]

Hey adventurers, i was just thinking, sure to hike the AT would be awesome but what's your opinion on doing a hike no one has ever done before? Where would you begin? Any tips or suggestions for navigation, resupply, etc? Anything is useful. I have an idea of a possible route but what's your opinions on doing something (from what I've researched) that has never been done before? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon! Any links or anything will be greatly appreciated!

[sugarlips]

This is called "bushwhacking" and it isn't permitted everywhere. It also goes against LNT principals because you're hiking on non-durable surfaces. Being an expert at navigation would be the #1 most important part of this otherwise you'd very easily find yourself lost in the wood.

[BenOnAdventures]

This is called "bushwhacking" and it isn't permitted everywhere. It also goes against LNT principals because you're hiking on non-durable surfaces. Being an expert at navigation would be the #1 most important part of this otherwise you'd very easily find yourself lost in the wood. Thank you! And yes, i've been working more and more on navigational skills. Also, I wasn't saying make my own trails for everything by any means I was meaning like doing something big like no ones done before like how people have did the American Discovery Trail, as well as other ultra long distance trail systems.

[Tipi Walter]

This is called "bushwhacking" and it isn't permitted everywhere. It also goes against LNT principals because you're hiking on non-durable surfaces. Being an expert at navigation would be the #1 most important part of this otherwise you'd very easily find yourself lost in the wood.

Phew, a heavy handed response.

BenOnAdventures, you don't give us a clue about what you're talking about. Hiking the AT but paralleling it a 100 yards off trail? Hiking the Eisenhower Interstate System but doing it solely in the trees on the middle divider?? Doing a cross country on farmland and over fences? Or here's an idea and one I like and something no one has ever done before, even the Cherokee Indians:

Load up a pack with 90 days worth of food (I think Demetri Coupounas did this with 40+ days of food) and spend 3 months on the AT WITH NO TOWN INTERRUPTIONS!!! I'd be dang happy to read your trip report as I'm sick of all the motel stays and restaurant meals.

And to Sugarlips---You just start out with a negatory response. Isn't permitted everywhere, goes against LNT, non-durable surfaces. Lost in the wood?? Say what? Durable surfaces?? Millions of animals bushwack billions of miles and everything seems to be fine.

I encourage all backpackers to bushwack their butts off. Please. You'll see 90% of the forest no one ever sees and in most places it's permitted---Mt Rogers, Citico wilderness, off the AT, Slickrock wilderness, Big Frog and Cohutta wilderness, all national forests ETC ETC. Even the Smokies offers a cross country permit. Go into every hollow and up every creek you can find. We don't live in China yet.

[BenOnAdventures]

Phew, a heavy handed response.

BenOnAdventures, you don't give us a clue about what you're talking about. Hiking the AT but paralleling it a 100 yards off trail? Hiking the Eisenhower Interstate System but doing it solely in the trees on the middle divider?? Doing a cross country on farmland and over fences? Or here's an idea and one I like and something no one has ever done before, even the Cherokee Indians:

Load up a pack with 90 days worth of food (I think Demetri Coupounas did this with 40+ days of food) and spend 3 months on the AT WITH NO TOWN INTERRUPTIONS!!! I'd be dang happy to read your trip report as I'm sick of all the motel stays and restaurant meals.

And to Sugarlips---You just start out with a negatory response. Isn't permitted everywhere, goes against LNT, non-durable surfaces. Lost in the wood?? Say what? Durable surfaces?? Millions of animals bushwack billions of miles and everything seems to be fine.

I encourage all backpackers to bushwack their butts off. Please. You'll see 90% of the forest no one ever sees and in most places it's permitted---Mt Rogers, Citico wilderness, off the AT, Slickrock wilderness, Big Frog and Cohutta wilderness, all national forests ETC ETC. Even the Smokies offers a cross country permit. Go into every hollow and up every creek you can find. We don't live in China yet. Great response! If you don't mind could you possibly email me and we'll discuss more of what I'm thinking? [email protected]

[Spirit Walker]

I know many hikers who have created their own routes, or even their own trails. The Hayduke Trail, the Grand Enchantment Trail, the Sierra High Route were all created by people who wanted to create a route in an area that didn't exist before and then publicized it afterwards. Brett from the GET went out several years and flagged his route, as well as creating maps etc. for future hikers. The Continental Divide Trail was also created by someone who believed that a route along the Divide should be protected. Many people create routes across the country, either on roads or by linking existing trails and rail trails and canals. It would be easy to create a multi-month hike linking trails in northern PA. I know a couple of folks who have hiked some version of the Grand Circle, linking CDT, AZT, Hayduke and GET.

Even on an existing long distance trail, you can create alternate routes. The CDT is famous for that. When we hiked it the second time, about 1/4 of the way was brand new to us and included trails through mountain ranges that we hadn't visited previously and that were 100 miles away from the official route. Researching it was a lot of fun, but also a bit frustrating because there were too many possible routes. It included a lot of time looking at maps, reading hike descriptions that sounded interesting (The Devils Backbone - who could resist?), contacting outfitters and people who lived in the area to get recommendations, etc. I ended up with more ideas for routes than I could possibly hike. I thought it was a lot of fun. There was also a lot of uncertainty, because we had no idea about water availability. Also, maps lie. One major bridge was long gone so we had a large detour to get over the river. You may find yourself on private property without intending to do so. If you can handle uncertainty, then go for it.

[Leanthree]

1) There is nothing inherently against LNT about bushwhacking unless as sugarlips mentioned, it is not permitted by law.
2) This happens all the time and is more popular out west where off-trail navigation is far easier. Navigating above treeline off trail is far easier than in the dense forrests east of the Mississippi
3) Go to Alaska if you want to go somewhere no one has been. Gates of the Arctic National Park doesn't really have trails and is supposedly incredible. I'd use Skurka's Brooks Range Traverse as a starting point but you can go wherever you want. http://andrewskurka.com/adventures/alaska-yukon-expedition/route-description/
4) Get better at navigation. Take some trips that are easily bounded by roads in all directions (and aren't too cliffy) within a few miles so that worst case you get lost and can just take a compass heading and hit a road in a few hours. GPS is good but maps don't break. Use both.
5) Resupply is highly dependent on location. You can always pay someone to bring you food. The more remote the more expensive as it might require a Bush Plane or significant hike with a full Bear Canister.

[BenOnAdventures]

I know many hikers who have created their own routes, or even their own trails. The Hayduke Trail, the Grand Enchantment Trail, the Sierra High Route were all created by people who wanted to create a route in an area that didn't exist before and then publicized it afterwards. Brett from the GET went out several years and flagged his route, as well as creating maps etc. for future hikers. The Continental Divide Trail was also created by someone who believed that a route along the Divide should be protected. Many people create routes across the country, either on roads or by linking existing trails and rail trails and canals. It would be easy to create a multi-month hike linking trails in northern PA. I know a couple of folks who have hiked some version of the Grand Circle, linking CDT, AZT, Hayduke and GET.

Even on an existing long distance trail, you can create alternate routes. The CDT is famous for that. When we hiked it the second time, about 1/4 of the way was brand new to us and included trails through mountain ranges that we hadn't visited previously and that were 100 miles away from the official route. Researching it was a lot of fun, but also a bit frustrating because there were too many possible routes. It included a lot of time looking at maps, reading hike descriptions that sounded interesting (The Devils Backbone - who could resist?), contacting outfitters and people who lived in the area to get recommendations, etc. I ended up with more ideas for routes than I could possibly hike. I thought it was a lot of fun. There was also a lot of uncertainty, because we had no idea about water availability. Also, maps lie. One major bridge was long gone so we had a large detour to get over the river. You may find yourself on private property without intending to do so. If you can handle uncertainty, then go for it. Thank you thank you thank you for the awesome reply!! I love hearing the first hand account, it's much appreciated!

[BenOnAdventures]

1) There is nothing inherently against LNT about bushwhacking unless as sugarlips mentioned, it is not permitted by law.
2) This happens all the time and is more popular out west where off-trail navigation is far easier. Navigating above treeline off trail is far easier than in the dense forrests east of the Mississippi
3) Go to Alaska if you want to go somewhere no one has been. Gates of the Arctic National Park doesn't really have trails and is supposedly incredible. I'd use Skurka's Brooks Range Traverse as a starting point but you can go wherever you want. http://andrewskurka.com/adventures/alaska-yukon-expedition/route-description/
4) Get better at navigation. Take some trips that are easily bounded by roads in all directions (and aren't too cliffy) within a few miles so that worst case you get lost and can just take a compass heading and hit a road in a few hours. GPS is good but maps don't break. Use both.
5) Resupply is highly dependent on location. You can always pay someone to bring you food. The more remote the more expensive as it might require a Bush Plane or significant hike with a full Bear Canister. Thank you for the suggestions on locations and the link, I'll be sure to look into all of that!!

[sugarlips]

And to Sugarlips---You just start out with a negatory response. Isn't permitted everywhere, goes against LNT, non-durable surfaces. Lost in the wood?? Say what? Durable surfaces?? Millions of animals bushwack billions of miles and everything seems to be fine.

Following LNT principals is voluntary, but if someone wants to follow them they advise hikers to stay on trails and not to bushwhack.

And telling someone who just learning navigation to go off into the woods is terrible advice.

[Venchka]

A few random thoughts.
A. It will be hard to come up with a self-propelled trip that is genuinely original.
B. Such a trip could be logistically expensive.
C. If you announce your idea somebody could beat you to it.
D. How much time would you have to complete such an adventure?
E. Would this be a hiking trip? Or multi-modal? Like Hike-Bike-Raft?
F. Eric Ryback, PCT Hiker #1, used a 375 mile resupply plan. So, that's been done. Try 400+ miles?
G. Original, self-directed research and planning. Asking the internet community to do your research for you is poor form.

Extremely random thought:

CDT. October 1 start. An insane idea. A person could get kilt, or even worse. :D

Something a bit more manageable:

Piece together the longest hike without a road crossing in the Lower 48 states. That could be fun. Tipi Walter might approve. ;)

Cheers!

Wayne

[Lnj]

Hey adventurers, i was just thinking, sure to hike the AT would be awesome but what's your opinion on doing a hike no one has ever done before? Where would you begin? Any tips or suggestions for navigation, resupply, etc? Anything is useful. I have an idea of a possible route but what's your opinions on doing something (from what I've researched) that has never been done before? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon! Any links or anything will be greatly appreciated!

How cool would it be to stay just off the coasts and go all the way around the US? Don't know if its been done, but if so, I didn't hear about it and I've thought of doing that several times.

[Leanthree]

Following LNT principals is voluntary, but if someone wants to follow them they advise hikers to stay on trails and not to bushwhack.

And telling someone who just learning navigation to go off into the woods is terrible advice.

The full guideline is:

Travel and Camp on Durable Surfaces: Damage to land occurs when surface vegetation or communities of organisms are trampled beyond repair. The resulting barren area leads to unusable trails, campsites and soil erosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erosion).


Durable surfaces doesn't only mean trail.

Trampling something beyond repair often means to be cognazant of group size, or something like cryptobiotic soil. Walking as an individual through a fully developed forrest off trail will almost never result in any of these problems. Beaches, talus, scree, river banks, washes, and a variety of other non-trail surfaces are perfectly fine all of the time as well.

To the second point, he should learn navigation but be ready to screw up. The way to learn navigation is to go navigate in a circumstance that isn't bad when one gets lost. Carry 7 days of food for a 4 day trip in an area with lots of trails and roads, and go get lost. Then go get found.

[rocketsocks]

Ben, what your suggesting is at the very heart and is the essence of our activity, good for you dude, way to many cookie cutter trails out there to hike, complete with guide books and way points for food, fun, and dancin' girls. One suggestion, leave your itinerary with a trusted friend, and don't deviate, by this I do not mean don't venture off trail, I mean don't plan to hike in New Hampshire and then be rescued in Utah. Other than that, rock on adventurer.

[rocketsocks]

Incidentally, most of the trails I walk on these days are deer runs, and other animal trails that are everywhere, just gotta know what to look for, after that, they're not to hard to find, and offer unlimited passage.

[BenOnAdventures]

How cool would it be to stay just off the coasts and go all the way around the US? Don't know if its been done, but if so, I didn't hear about it and I've thought of doing that several times. Interesting suggestion, I'll look into that.

[BenOnAdventures]

Ben, what your suggesting is at the very heart and is the essence of our activity, good for you dude, way to many cookie cutter trails out there to hike, complete with guide books and way points for food, fun, and dancin' girls. One suggestion, leave your itinerary with a trusted friend, and don't deviate, by this I do not mean don't venture off trail, I mean don't plan to hike in New Hampshire and then be rescued in Utah. Other than that, rock on adventurer. Thank you I appreciate the kind words! I have an idea for a possible trail/adventure, if you'd like to email me here's my email: [email protected]

[BenOnAdventures]

A few random thoughts.
A. It will be hard to come up with a self-propelled trip that is genuinely original.
B. Such a trip could be logistically expensive.
C. If you announce your idea somebody could beat you to it.
D. How much time would you have to complete such an adventure?
E. Would this be a hiking trip? Or multi-modal? Like Hike-Bike-Raft?
F. Eric Ryback, PCT Hiker #1, used a 375 mile resupply plan. So, that's been done. Try 400+ miles?
G. Original, self-directed research and planning. Asking the internet community to do your research for you is poor form.

Extremely random thought:

CDT. October 1 start. An insane idea. A person could get kilt, or even worse. :D

Something a bit more manageable:

Piece together the longest hike without a road crossing in the Lower 48 states. That could be fun. Tipi Walter might approve. ;)

Cheers!

Wayne Great great points! Regarding point G, I wasn't suggesting someone plan a trip for me or anything of that nature, i was asking for suggestions or ideas. That is all. Also, regarding C, that's why i haven't posted it on here.

[Tipi Walter]

Following LNT principals is voluntary, but if someone wants to follow them they advise hikers to stay on trails and not to bushwhack.

And telling someone who just learning navigation to go off into the woods is terrible advice.

It was his idea to begin with---"doing a hike no one has ever done before." It's his choice, and the word "bushwack" never came up until you first mentioned it.


I mean don't plan to hike in New Hampshire and then be rescued in Utah.

Now what a great trip that would be. Start in New Hampshire and get rescued in Utah. I like the sound of that. Might even make a great tattoo once you get rescued in . . . . wait for it . . . . Utah.

[BenOnAdventures]

It was his idea to begin with---"doing a hike no one has ever done before." It's his choice, and the word "bushwack" never came up until you first mentioned it.



Now what a great trip that would be. Start in New Hampshire and get rescued in Utah. I like the sound of that. Might even make a great tattoo once you get rescued in . . . . wait for it . . . . Utah. I cant tell if this is sarcasm or actual advice lol. Are you agreeing with the new adventure idea or no? lol

[rocketsocks]

I cant tell if this is sarcasm or actual advice lol. Are you agreeing with the new adventure idea or no? lolI think Walter is just gettin' punchy, the dehydrator has been working overtime and he's ready for his next big adventure. :D

[Tipi Walter]

I cant tell if this is sarcasm or actual advice lol. Are you agreeing with the new adventure idea or no? lol

I'm just liking the way Rocketsock's mind works. It's deviant and wonderful. Send me a message here about your idea, otherwise we have no earthly clue about what you're wanting to attempt.

[BenOnAdventures]

I think Walter is just gettin' punchy, the dehydrator has been working overtime and he's ready for his next big adventure. :D True true and I shot you an email by the way!

[Heliotrope]

The most original trip I heard of was Justin Lichter's thru-swim of Lake Tahoe. He tied his "pack" of gear to his ankle and swam the perimeter of the lake, camping as needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[colorado_rob]

I would imagine what you seek is nearly impossible to do out east, but I haven't read all the responses...., but there are tons and tons of opportunities out west, I've done a bit of this on slickrock areas of Utah, dead-heading out a couple days, making a loop. Always with dual-GPS devices; maps aren't of much use in the Utah slickrock country.

Colorado has plenty of deep-backcountry where you could explore some routes never hiked (at least on any record). Some of the terrain is virtually impossible to do this, but there is higher terrain that is much easier.

As one example, a Coloradan names Scott Patterson discovered, 7-8 years ago, the 9th longest natural arch in the world in Colorado, in a national monument, if you can believe this. Imagine that! We figured out how to get into this area, it involved fording the Yampa river, possible really only in the fall, and some rappels and a couple climbs. Fantastic! When we went, after Scott, of course, maybe a dozen or two people had ever been in this area, maybe even less.

Here's a good link:

http://www.summitpost.org/the-discovery-of-outlaw-arch/272889

There are a couple of "routes" on my near-term horizon, obviously I wouldn't be the first, but they are very rarely travelled, including a variation of the Heyduke route in Utah and the High Sierra Route in California.

[RangerZ]

Do it, then tell us about it.

[rocketsocks]

I would imagine what you seek is nearly impossible to do out east, but I haven't read all the responses...., but there are tons and tons of opportunities out west, I've done a bit of this on slickrock areas of Utah, dead-heading out a couple days, making a loop. Always with dual-GPS devices; maps aren't of much use in the Utah slickrock country.

Colorado has plenty of deep-backcountry where you could explore some routes never hiked (at least on any record). Some of the terrain is virtually impossible to do this, but there is higher terrain that is much easier.

As one example, a Coloradan names Scott Patterson discovered, 7-8 years ago, the 9th longest natural arch in the world in Colorado, in a national monument, if you can believe this. Imagine that! We figured out how to get into this area, it involved fording the Yampa river, possible really only in the fall, and some rappels and a couple climbs. Fantastic! When we went, after Scott, of course, maybe a dozen or two people had ever been in this area, maybe even less.

Here's a good link:

http://www.summitpost.org/the-discovery-of-outlaw-arch/272889

There are a couple of "routes" on my near-term horizon, obviously I wouldn't be the first, but they are very rarely travelled, including a variation of the Heyduke route in Utah and the High Sierra Route in California.
Cool trip, thanks for the link.

[rocketsocks]

I'm just liking the way Rocketsock's mind works. It's deviant and wonderful. Send me a message here about your idea, otherwise we have no earthly clue about what you're wanting to attempt.Aye, a deviant thinker I am, keeps life interesting.

[rocketsocks]

True true and I shot you an email by the way!Since I don't use an e-mail for work, I rarely check it, best just to shoot me a PM here.

[ralph23]

Frankly, if you can't even pick a color and font for your blog's webpage, then I don't see how you could manage off trail.

[rafe]

To the OP: I'm not a bushwhacker, so ignore my opinions if you will. I'd say, learn a few things on well marked trails before you go exploring deep backcountry.

Even here on the east coast, in lame-O Massachusetts, there are plenty of untracked woods to explore. You might be less than a mile line-of-sight to the nearest road or dwelling, but you'd be amazed how dense and vast the woods feel. You'll be amazed at how long a distance a mile can feel like.

Without a GPS or compass, or on a grey day without the sun to guide you, you might be in seriously tough shape. Sometimes I'm amazed more folks don't get lost in the woods.

[BenOnAdventures]

Thanks for all of the great responses, links, opinions and ideas. I definitely appreciate it all!

[Another Kevin]

About a third of my hikes involve at least some bushwhacking. Those hikes very seldom go precisely according to plan, but I do manage to bag the occasional trail-less peak or whack in to the occasional trail-less waterfall. And all winter hikes are bushwhacks until proven otherwise. Trails in the winter can get kind of ... approximate. Here in the East, a lot of bushwhack routes actually get easier in winter, when you can snowshoe over all the prickers and nettles and hobblebush. (Until you fall in a spruce trap, that is.)

It's a safe assumption that you'll make less than half the speed on a whack than you would on trail. I've had days when six miles was a long day. (Swimming in Spruce Hell.)

I do bushwhack in the East (in the Catskills and Adirondacks, it's perfectly lawful), but the others are right that there are lots of navigational challenges here. It's much easier in the West, where you can see where you're going, and see distant objects to hold your compass line. Around here, the skills are more about map reading, and identifying handrails and backstops. Because your track simply is going to wander. Another thing that's useful is to learn to approximate your position on the map from altitude and aspect of slope. I do bring an altimeter on bushwhacks.

Take a course in map and compass navigation, or at least go the first few times with someone very experienced. Start with trips where your escape route is easy, at the level of "Down goes to the river. The river goes to the parking lot."

[Lambo]

I am very interested in your adventure. I too like to find the path less traveled and am always up for a good adventure. Are you looking to find this new adventure in a specific area, east coast, west coast, central, outside of the us?

[BenOnAdventures]

I am very interested in your adventure. I too like to find the path less traveled and am always up for a good adventure. Are you looking to find this new adventure in a specific area, east coast, west coast, central, outside of the us? thank you for your interest I really appreciate that! And yes inside the United States, what is your email? I could just email you or if you would like you can email me at: [email protected] we could discuss more of this in depth

[colorado_rob]

There are 174 known unclimbed peaks in Colorado, the highest being just below 10,000 feet. A buddy of mine, John Kirk, has a great website for peaks throughout the country, here's his list of unclimbed CO peaks. Not 100% sure what he means by "unclimbed", I assume he means there is no record of it having been climbed. There are something like 2200 peaks in Colorado over 10,000 feet, and they are all on record as having been climbed. On guy, Ken Nolan, has actually climbed them all. Big list of peaks!

Anyway, here are the unclimbed peaks, your chance to do some things no one else has done. Expect so serious bushwhacking down at these low altitudes!

http://www.listsofjohn.com/unclimbed?c=All&S=CO&p=300

These are the peaks of what is called "300 feet of prominence", meaning the peak is at least 300' above surrounding terrain.

[kayak karl]

sounds like blue blazing or just doing a walk about.

[BenOnAdventures]

There are 174 known unclimbed peaks in Colorado, the highest being just below 10,000 feet. A buddy of mine, John Kirk, has a great website for peaks throughout the country, here's his list of unclimbed CO peaks. Not 100% sure what he means by "unclimbed", I assume he means there is no record of it having been climbed. There are something like 2200 peaks in Colorado over 10,000 feet, and they are all on record as having been climbed. On guy, Ken Nolan, has actually climbed them all. Big list of peaks!

Anyway, here are the unclimbed peaks, your chance to do some things no one else has done. Expect so serious bushwhacking down at these low altitudes!

http://www.listsofjohn.com/unclimbed?c=All&S=CO&p=300

These are the peaks of what is called "300 feet of prominence", meaning the peak is at least 300' above surrounding terrain. sweet that's awesome thank you for the link! I definitely will save it, it's great hearing this information

[ocasey3]

This young man just completed a hike around the entire coast of New Zealand. Pretty inspiring stuff. http://www.wildboyadventures.com/ https://www.facebook.com/wildboyadventures

[Malto]

A group of us were talking about this exact subject at the ALDHA Gathering this last weekend. In the end we came to the conclusion that it makes little difference whether someone has done a route or not other than some bragging rights. there are a boatload of great trips to be had, both on or off trail and the first time you hike it, it will be new. And the folks having this discussion have hiked dozens of the lettered trails and have developed some routes on there own and they also have tens of thousands of miles on trails and off trails between them.

Given your limited hiking experience I'm not sure why established trails or routes lack the challenge. What are you trying to get out of this?

[Mags]

I know these people...AJ (Adam) and Stephen pretty well in particular. One is my friend's dermatologist. Small world...

[BenOnAdventures]

A group of us were talking about this exact subject at the ALDHA Gathering this last weekend. In the end we came to the conclusion that it makes little difference whether someone has done a route or not other than some bragging rights. there are a boatload of great trips to be had, both on or off trail and the first time you hike it, it will be new. And the folks having this discussion have hiked dozens of the lettered trails and have developed some routes on there own and they also have tens of thousands of miles on trails and off trails between them.

Given your limited hiking experience I'm not sure why established trails or routes lack the challenge. What are you trying to get out of this? I'm not against trails at all. But doing an unknown trip is always sweet. And I've hiked all of my life so don't say "little hiking experience". But the adventure I'm thinking of has established trails as well as some off trail parts. Thanks for the input!!

[Dogwood]

A group of us were talking about this exact subject at the ALDHA Gathering this last weekend. In the end we came to the conclusion that it makes little difference whether someone has done a route or not other than some bragging rights. there are a boatload of great trips to be had, both on or off trail and the first time you hike it, it will be new. And the folks having this discussion have hiked dozens of the lettered trails and have developed some routes on there own and they also have tens of thousands of miles on trails and off trails between them.

Given your ------- hiking experience I'm not sure why established trails or routes lack the challenge. What are you trying to get out of this?

No one has done YOUR hike before no matter what trail or route of someone else's design or your own YOU choose. On every hike, EVEN ON ESTABLISHED NAMED TRAILS AND ROUTES, adventure, exploration, and the "unknown" is only limited by your creativity and imagination. None of those worthy goals are automatically excluded on established named trails and routes! Nor does adventure and the unknown have to be of epic proportions. I will ask the same as Malto,".... what are you attempting to get out of a route no one has done before?

[4eyedbuzzard]

I'm just wondering what tomorrow's post will be about.

[BenOnAdventures]

No one has done YOUR hike before no matter what trail or route of someone else's design or your own YOU choose. On every hike, EVEN ON ESTABLISHED NAMED TRAILS AND ROUTES, adventure, exploration, and the "unknown" is only limited by your creativity and imagination. None of those worthy goals are automatically excluded on established named trails and routes! Nor does adventure and the unknown have to be of epic proportions. I will ask the same as Malto,".... what are you attempting to get out of a route no one has done before? I'm intending to use it as a way to spread the word about getting outdoors more and getting out of your comfort zone. I have something in mind but don't wanna announce the idea just yet. Gotta get more positive people on here lol

[BenOnAdventures]

I'm just wondering what tomorrow's post will be about. stay tuned, I can't wait to hear your input on my next post. I'll be looking for it.

[Dogwood]

I'm intending to use it as a way to spread the word about getting outdoors more and getting out of your comfort zone. I have something in mind but don't wanna announce the idea just yet. Gotta get more positive people on here lol

I sincerely hope that was not directed at my comments. I'm gung ho positive but I'm also aware hiking established routes and trails can just as equally inspire others to expand their comfort zones and get out into the outdoors more. Again, there is no lack of adventure for one willing to be creative with established trails and routes. I do it regularly as a adventure junkie. I'm sure you can do it too. I'm skeptical of why you will not share your route in a public forum too? It smells of one upmanship.

[BenOnAdventures]

I sincerely hope that was not directed at my comments. I'm gung ho positive but I'm also aware hiking established routes and trails can just as equally inspire others to expand their comfort zones and get out into the outdoors more. Again, there is no lack of adventure for one willing to be creative with established trails and routes. I do it regularly as a adventure junkie. I'm sure you can do it too. I'm skeptical of why you will not share your route in a public forum too? It smells of one upmanship. I agree. And as I said to someone earlier. I'm not saying I wouldn't stick to only off trail. What I'm thinking of is a mix between established and unestablished routes.

[BenOnAdventures]

And I haven't talked about it yet because if everyone is reacting so crazily about me even mentioning such a proposal, what's the point of posting the actual intended route?

[BenOnAdventures]

I just figure what's the point you know?

[BenOnAdventures]

I just emailed you dogwood. We can talk more in depth there.

[rafe]

We're not skeptical, though you might say jaded. Relative newbs, bursting with enthusiasm asking all sorts of open-ended questions and just sort of bouncing off the walls. They've barely gotten started but their plans are expansive and sprawling. We've seen it before.

Nothing wrong with open-ended questions, but you should be prepared for open-ended responses. ;)

[lonehiker]

I'm still trying to figure out how bushwacking goes against the principles of LNT.

[rafe]

I'm still trying to figure out how bushwacking goes against the principles of LNT.

Certainly you can understand that at times, the footpath needs to be constrained. Eg. in alpine environments like the high ridges of the White Mountains.

[Dogwood]

Ben, send me the email again. I want to better understand what you're intending.

BTW, I must state you have been one of the most upbeat and appreciative posters I read here. I've always appreciated that about you.

[Malto]

And I haven't talked about it yet because if everyone is reacting so crazily about me even mentioning such a proposal, what's the point of posting the actual intended route?

maybe you would get a more helpful reaction if you just laid out your plan. It could be as simple as a 20 cross country route in Ohio to a Trans Himalayan route covering thousands of miles. Even my comment about experience makes an assumption of which end of the spectrum you are targeting.

Finally, if you haven't seen this http://www.thehikinglife.com then spend some time looking at some of the routes that Swami has pulled together.

[BenOnAdventures]

Ben, send me the email again. I want to better understand what you're intending.

BTW, I must state you have been one of the most upbeat and appreciative posters I read here. I've always appreciated that about you. okay I emailed you again did you get it

[Venchka]

Mr. Fletcher set the bar fairly high. Perhaps you can find inspiration and ideas in his treks and writings. In my mind, replicating his 1,000 mile summer and Grand Canyon hikes would be an accomplishment to be proud of. Entirely self-supported and without fanfare or publicity of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Fletcher

Wayne

[BenOnAdventures]

Mr. Fletcher set the bar fairly high. Perhaps you can find inspiration and ideas in his treks and writings. In my mind, replicating his 1,000 mile summer and Grand Canyon hikes would be an accomplishment to be proud of. Entirely self-supported and without fanfare or publicity of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Fletcher

Wayne thank you I'll definitely check that out

[ralph23]

Benonadventures, we get it. You know how to use email. There is no need to post here every time you send an email. For that matter, a thank you for every reply to your posts is also not needed. It's a forum, people post- Get used to it. Now please stop bumping your threads as a way of getting more attention for your blog.

[BenOnAdventures]

Benonadventures, we get it. You know how to use email. There is no need to post here every time you send an email. For that matter, a thank you for every reply to your posts is also not needed. It's a forum, people post- Get used to it. Now please stop bumping your threads as a way of getting more attention for your blog. I'm not doing that at all. I'm not doing it to gain attention for my blog whatsoever, if you didn't realize I already posted on here about not putting the link to my blog on posts and stuff like that, switch to stop it with the negativity and have a great day! So it's bad to just give people common courtesy and a thank-you nowadays? I don't think so, so thank you for your input I definitely appreciate hearing from you!

[Another Kevin]

I'm still trying to figure out how bushwacking goes against the principles of LNT.


Certainly you can understand that at times, the footpath needs to be constrained. Eg. in alpine environments like the high ridges of the White Mountains.

Of course. But most places aren't the alpine ridges of the White Mountains. I bushwhack often. Always, I follow the preferences of the land manager.

For most New York State Forest Preserve lands below 4000 feet elevation, there are few restrictions on off-trail travel. For the peakbaggers among us, twenty of the Adirondack 46 and sixteen of the Catskill 35 have no maintained trails - and lots of people bag them all. The 46'ers by now all have herd paths that may or may not be visible. Three of the 'trailless' 35'ers have abundantly clear abandoned roads or trails. Some of the others still have the hiker swimming in Spruce Hell, with no path visible at all until you're almost at the summit.

If bagging these peaks is violating LNT, it's a violation to which NYSDEC is willing to turn a Nelsonian eye.

[Venchka]

Have any of Y'all ever hiked a rain soaked trail after a string of 6-8-10 horses have gone before you? All perfectly legal and permitted in most (probably all) Wilderness Areas. It ain't pretty. It ain't fun. The irony: The Management of said Wilderness Area preaches and requires pedestrian users to adhere to LNT practices.

Wayne

[ralph23]

Well played. You apologized for linking to your blog all the time but at the same time you have a link to your blog in your signature line. So you aren't really sorry for linking to your blog. In fact, the apology thread was just another way to get more hits on your blog. Kinda like asking people to help design your blog in hopes they visit your webpage to comment on the design.

[Tipi Walter]

Have any of Y'all ever hiked a rain soaked trail after a string of 6-8-10 horses have gone before you? All perfectly legal and permitted in most (probably all) Wilderness Areas. It ain't pretty. It ain't fun. The irony: The Management of said Wilderness Area preaches and requires pedestrian users to adhere to LNT practices.

Wayne

Can't stand the horses. But not all wilderness areas allow them, and then only on certain trails. No horses are allowed in the Joyce Kilmer Slickrock wilderness. None allowed in the Big Frog except for a perimeter trail. None allowed in the Bald River wilderness. None allowed in the Snowbirds. But Mt Rogers is ruined by horses, especially the Lewis Fork and Wilson Creek wilderness areas. Whenever I find "illegal" horseback riders, i.e. Saddle Potatoes, I take their pictures and post them on the interweb. Verboten!! Not allowed!

I don't even think this thread is about horses in the woods but you got me distracted. Saddle potatoes could care less about the damage they do to trails. Thousand pounds animals on steel hooves. Doesn't make sense in the Southeast. They do not belong in the backcountry. Hasn't been indigenous horses in North America for 10,000 years. They are outside the ecosystem.

[colorado_rob]

What on EARTH is going on here with all the negativity and such? Shame on you all. Pathetic. Ben asked for some legitimate ideas and all some of you can do is bad-mouth him and go on and on and on and on about LNT principles. Again, PATHETIC. Get a life.

[RangerZ]

Of course. But most places aren't the alpine ridges of the White Mountains. I bushwhack often. Always, I follow the preferences of the land manager.

For most New York State Forest Preserve lands below 4000 feet elevation, there are few restrictions on off-trail travel. For the peakbaggers among us, twenty of the Adirondack 46 and sixteen of the Catskill 35 have no maintained trails - and lots of people bag them all. The 46'ers by now all have herd paths that may or may not be visible. Three of the 'trailless' 35'ers have abundantly clear abandoned roads or trails. Some of the others still have the hiker swimming in Spruce Hell, with no path visible at all until you're almost at the summit.

If bagging these peaks is violating LNT, it's a violation to which NYSDEC is willing to turn a Nelsonian eye.

You, sir, are a scholar, a clueless weekender but a scholar, nevertheless.

[Another Kevin]

Can't stand the horses. But not all wilderness areas allow them, and then only on certain trails. No horses are allowed in the Joyce Kilmer Slickrock wilderness. None allowed in the Big Frog except for a perimeter trail. None allowed in the Bald River wilderness. None allowed in the Snowbirds. But Mt Rogers is ruined by horses, especially the Lewis Fork and Wilson Creek wilderness areas. Whenever I find "illegal" horseback riders, i.e. Saddle Potatoes, I take their pictures and post them on the interweb. Verboten!! Not allowed!

I'm not quite as vehement about horses, but I was indeed irate when I saw unquestionable evidence that a rider had led a horse directly to a spring. When fifty feet back there was a sign saying, "no horses past this point," and a hitching post and bucket provided for the purpose. It's not that the horse was drinking from the spring. It's what was going on at the other end of the horse, a few feet from my drinking water.

You can be sure that that bottle of water got treated.

I had no cause to complain about what horses had done to the trail othewise. That's my own fault for hiking on a bridle path.

I also don't get nearly as annoyed with Ben as some of the folks here. He falls in the category of "kids with big ideas and equally big mouths." He'll either get some real experience, or he won't. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm perfectly happy to tell him, "blog when you have something to say, and I'll read it when you do," but that advice is worth every penny you paid for it.

[BenOnAdventures]

What on EARTH is going on here with all the negativity and such? Shame on you all. Pathetic. Ben asked for some legitimate ideas and all some of you can do is bad-mouth him and go on and on and on and on about LNT principles. Again, PATHETIC. Get a life. Thank you I really appreciate it. Can I message you?

[squeezebox]

If you have to ask someone else if you have the experience and knowledge to do something in particular, the answer is usually no.

[Dogwood]

Ben, I got your emails. But again you revealed nothing substantial about your plans. Hence, I find it difficult to impossible to suggest targeted answers to your questions in your original post. That's not a negative comment or me being negative! It's just what I observe and how I'm having difficulty with your questions. If you want to do something no one has ever done before safely enjoy. Tell us about it upon your completion of the route.

[Venchka]

OK, my experience with horses was in the Rockies where horses are still used frequently. My point was to...heck, I probably didn't have a point.
Anyway...
Ben, all the best to you.

Wayne

[rafe]

If you have to ask someone else if you have the experience and knowledge to do something in particular, the answer is usually no.

It's not even clear what Ben is asking in his opening post. Is he asking us to suggest a route or area to explore? Is he asking whether we think it would be cool to hike into "the unknown"? Or is he asking for advice on how to do so? Mostly, Ben seems to be thinking out loud.

A point I made in response is: "the unknown" could be almost anywhere. Take fifty steps directly away from a well-established trail and you may well be standing where no human has stood before, or at least not in the last 100 years. The location doesn't have to be the wild west. It could be conservation land in central Massachusetts.

I've often thought, in such places: if not for my map, and the blazes on the trees, I would be seriously lost in these woods. Step away from the trail and suddently you're in "the forest primeval."

[kayak karl]

stay tuned, I can't wait to hear your input on my next post. I'll be looking for it. so you started a thread yesterday and will tell us why you started it tomorrow! can't wait :rolleyes:

[Water Rat]

Hey adventurers, i was just thinking, sure to hike the AT would be awesome but what's your opinion on doing a hike no one has ever done before? Where would you begin? Any tips or suggestions for navigation, resupply, etc? Anything is useful. I have an idea of a possible route but what's your opinions on doing something (from what I've researched) that has never been done before? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon! Any links or anything will be greatly appreciated!

If there is a trail/route/hike/road walk that you want to do, you should do your research and go for it. The only opinion that matters is yours - You are the one who will be doing it. Asking for the opinions of others will not help you to complete your goal - Especially if we do not know what you are trying to do. I don't mean that in a negative way, it's just that being really vague about wanting to do something nobody has ever done before is not likely to get you the answers you seek.

Personally I don't care if 2 trillion people have done something before. If it is new to me, then it is an adventure I have never taken. Even taking the same route 2x, I learn something new each time. The definition of "adventure" is different from person to person.

You ask the general question of where to begin - Research. Gain knowledge of the area(s) you are planning to go. Know the rules of the area... Take a Wilderness First Responder course if you are planning on spending time in the backcountry (especially in areas where others are not likely to travel), learn navigation (map & compass, how to read topos, gps skills, even learning more about the night sky where you are going, etc) above and beyond what you are likely to need for your travels. Learn about what you are getting yourself into. Knowledge weighs nothing to carry and can come in handy as a backup if you are relying on any fancy gadgets to get you where you are going. I would also begin by clearly stating where I was going in order to generate specific answers. Besides - You might find out that trip has in fact already been done. That could save you a lot of time and effort if your end goal is to do something that has not been done. Just because you have researched something and it doesn't appear to have been done, does not in fact mean it hasn't been done. There are many who have gone before and have not publicized their trips on the internet. Again, not meant as negativity. There just was a lot that occurred prior to the Internet and there are many quiet souls out there who have not written books on their trips.

We would be much better able to give you ideas specific as to what navigation skills you would need and resupply options you would have if we knew the "where." That does not mean you need to share the "what" you are planning to do...it just gives a better idea of resupply options for that area/those areas. There is a huge difference in trying to resupply on established trails vs backcountry vs cities/towns you would be passing through.

Saying that you are working on navigational skills doesn't really help us to help you with that answer either... Does this mean map & compass, programming your gps unit...? Different terrains and areas require different skill levels. If you don't want to share that is certainly within your rights, but it also means we are not able to really give specific answers. It also means you will get responses that are all over the board and questions asked of your skill levels in different areas.

[BenOnAdventures]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.An unknown guy named Sam Gardner with no LD hiking resume proposed and tried something similar, called the the All In Trek a few years ago. He was going to hike the NCT (North Country Trail), AT, CDT, and then PCT back to back - over 10,000 miles - in one calendar year if possible. He promoted the heck out of it, and himself, with equipment sponsorships, planned post-hike inspirational speaking tours, etc. It didn't end well. Hell, it didn't even start well - he got lost getting to the trailhead. Never made it out of the first state (winter in upstate NY is tough). Enough said.

[rafe]

Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.

Great. Do I dare ask how you're going to fund that? Or what long trails you've already done, before you go stringing them all together?

I do appreciate your enthusiasm and imagination, but I question your grip on reality.

[BenOnAdventures]

Lol I love the comedy I get from everyone

[BenOnAdventures]

Life is great and reality is clear.

[rafe]

I'm trying to figure out if you're for real, and my conclusion so far is, no.

[Malto]

Lol I love the comedy I get from everyone

Do some searching for a hiker from 2012 known as Coyote Rob. In spite of having little experience hiking he declared that a single thru hike was not enough of an adventure. Hence he decided he would do a calendar year triple crown. he started the PCT, hiked a bit, hit snow, skipped a lot (and lied in his journal) then planned to jump north to Canada (in March) to hike SoBo. thankfully, he listened to some who basically told him he was heading nowhere good. he then flew to Atlanta, I gave him a ride to Springer (to see who had the $£@%s to try something so audacious. He was a great guy, just very young and naive with no clue about hiking a long trail(s). Ultimately he quit the AT soon after crossing into Va because there was too many rocks on the trail. He has lol but disappeared since.

I'm sure you think you are nothing like Coyote Rob or Sam Gardner but until you do it you more like them than you could imagine.

Now, what do I think about your route? the AT&T and PCT is good enough though I think you are substituting quantity for quality. if you want a big loop and one with a lot more bang than what you are proposing? Look up skurka Great western loop. Highly doubt you have the experience to match Skurka's pace which is required to hit the weather windows need to complete this route but it is IMHO far a far better route than what you have "planned". In addition to Skurka' website, much of the loop was also done by swami as part of his 12 long walks.

[BenOnAdventures]

Yes I'm 100% real! I've been doing a lot of research on this, I figured I would ask all of you on here but everyone seems to freak out over any little question. But what's your opinion? Any suggestions or tips for such a big adventure? Anything would be appreciated! Thank you

[BenOnAdventures]

Also Skurka averaged like 25-35 miles a day. That's 2 to 3 mph for 10ish hours. That's not bad at all. I've hiked all of my life. Most of you on here just throw me in some stereotype about young hikers abs quite frankly I just ignore that noise. I definitely appreciate the input but I'm definitely different from those that you mentioned.

[Malto]

Yes I'm 100% real! I've been doing a lot of research on this, I figured I would ask all of you on here but everyone seems to freak out over any little question. But what's your opinion? Any suggestions or tips for such a big adventure? Anything would be appreciated! Thank you

Couple of questions:
1) how many years are you planning to take to do this? If you do a SoBo AT in the fall then hike across the south over the winter you are fine to start the PCT in late spring. But then you have problems. You will hit Canada in the fall then what? PNT and across the north in the winter? Take off the winter and spring and come back the following summer?
2) I actually looked at your blog. Maybe hiking trips are hidden but I'm not seeing a lot of hiking. What is your longest trip you've done?

[Malto]

Also Skurka averaged like 25-35 miles a day. That's 2 to 3 mph for 10ish hours. That's not bad at all. I've hiked all of my life. Most of you on here just throw me in some stereotype about young hikers abs quite frankly I just ignore that noise. I definitely appreciate the input but I'm definitely different from those that you mentioned.

Now you're funny. Have you ever hiked a 30 mile day? Hiking is easy on excel, feet doesn't hurt, calories aren't burned. What gives you the confidence that 25-35 mpd EVERY DAY is not that bad? How many consecutive days have you done this type of mileage?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Yes I'm 100% real! I've been doing a lot of research on this, I figured I would ask all of you on here but everyone seems to freak out over any little question. But what's your opinion? Any suggestions or tips for such a big adventure? Anything would be appreciated! Thank youSure. Start by actually completing a thru-hike of the AT in the normal NOBO or SOBO season. That's a pretty big challenge in and of itself. Then, maybe, make plans for a bigger adventure in future years.

[BenOnAdventures]

Couple of questions:
1) how many years are you planning to take to do this? If you do a SoBo AT in the fall then hike across the south over the winter you are fine to start the PCT in late spring. But then you have problems. You will hit Canada in the fall then what? PNT and across the north in the winter? Take off the winter and spring and come back the following summer?
2) I actually looked at your blog. Maybe hiking trips are hidden but I'm not seeing a lot of hiking. What is your longest trip you've done? longest trip I did was about 150 miles off trail in West Virginia in the mountains. And the reason I don't really have any big trips or anything flashy logged is because I just started that blog a year ago and I'm still working on the logistics of it. Also I really appreciate you making a good suggestion in the first part of your answer. I definitely really do appreciate it

[4eyedbuzzard]

Also Skurka averaged like 25-35 miles a day. That's 2 to 3 mph for 10ish hours. That's not bad at all. I've hiked all of my life. Most of you on here just throw me in some stereotype about young hikers abs quite frankly I just ignore that noise. I definitely appreciate the input but I'm definitely different from those that you mentioned.Okay, now you are officially delusional.

[BenOnAdventures]

Now you're funny. Have you ever hiked a 30 mile day? Hiking is easy on excel, feet doesn't hurt, calories aren't burned. What gives you the confidence that 25-35 mpd EVERY DAY is not that bad? How many consecutive days have you done this type of mileage? lol I've hiked 4 consecutive 30 Mike days before. Thank you very much. I appreciate the comment.

[BenOnAdventures]

Okay, now you are officially delusional. thank you that's so kind of you to say that

[BenOnAdventures]

Mile not Mike lol

[4eyedbuzzard]

thank you that's so kind of you to say thatNo, it's not kind. It's a reality check. Set yourself up for success - not failure.

[BenOnAdventures]

No, it's not kind. It's a reality check. Set yourself up for success - not failure. reality check? Where was the reality check when man First wanted to go to the moon? I'm sure there a lot of people freaking out about that. Where was the reality check when people were wanting to climb Mount Everest? That's pretty crazy of an adventure if I do say so myself. Where's the reality check for people who go and explore the polar caps? Those are so far from civilization if something goes wrong they could be doomed. It didn't stop them. Reality check? I believe you have just checked me into the reality of a world that is full of opportunity for exploration, I truly thank you for this! Have an awesome night you just made my night!

[rafe]

Umm, Ben, lots of people died before their successors finally reached those milestones you mentioned. Try not to be one of them.

[Water Rat]

Actually, many of us have asked questions so that we can provide you with our opinion. We don't know your skill level and are not mind readers, so we ask questions of your skill level. If you do not let the audience know your skill levels, they will have to make their own decisions about what skills they think you have. If you do not want that, it might be to your benefit to list your skills when you ask an opinion.

Defining that as "noise" and being dismissive is uncalled for. Many of us have also given OUR opinions (as was requested) and you seem to discard them because they are apparently not what you want to hear. Malto knows of what he speaks and you would be wise to listen. There is a huge difference between hiking at a 2-3 mph pace and backpacking that pace for days on end. What looks easy on paper, is often not that easy on the trail. Otherwise more would have already done it.

It seems clear that when someone poses a question you either dodge the question, get defensive, or ignore the advice. If you are indeed seeking our opinions you will listen to what we are saying... I mean actually internalize the answers you are getting. If you do not want to be stereotyped as the usual young hiker, then set yourself apart from them and don't act like them.

[4eyedbuzzard]

reality check? Where was the reality check when man First wanted to go to the moon? I'm sure there a lot of people freaking out about that. Where was the reality check when people were wanting to climb Mount Everest? That's pretty crazy of an adventure if I do say so myself. Where's the reality check for people who go and explore the polar caps? Those are so far from civilization if something goes wrong they could be doomed. It didn't stop them. Reality check? I believe you have just checked me into the reality of a world that is full of opportunity for exploration, I truly thank you for this! Have an awesome night you just made my night!Before we went to the moon, we flew airplanes, then rockets into low orbit, then higher orbits. We gained experience and refined equipment and techniques. The same goes for mountaineers. We start with learning basic glacier travel at lower elevations, then climb successively higher and more difficult peaks. All great achievements build upon smaller steps.

"Small moves, Ellie, small moves"

[BenOnAdventures]

Before we went to the moon, we flew airplanes, then rockets into low orbit, then higher orbits. We gained experience and refined equipment and techniques. The same goes for mountaineers. We start with learning basic glacier travel at lower elevations, then climb successively higher and more difficult peaks. All great achievements build upon smaller steps.

"Small moves, Ellie, small moves" touche lol. Either way, I wasn't on here running a debate, I was on here to get information for suggestions that would be good for a trip of this magnitude

[BenOnAdventures]

If any of you would like to get a hold of me, feel free to email me. I will not continue this thread further. It's gotten way off topic, have a great night everybody! Talk to you very soon!

[email protected]

[RangerZ]

Ben, I remember not so long ago when you were excited about circumnavigating Ohio, now the whole country?

This just became my first ignore. See you guys elsewhere on the site.

[Water Rat]

Quote from my previous post: "It seems clear that when someone poses a question you either dodge the question, get defensive, or ignore the advice. If you are indeed seeking our opinions you will listen to what we are saying... "


If any of you would like to get a hold of me, feel free to email me. I will not continue this thread further. It's gotten way off topic, have a great night everybody! Talk to you very soon!

[email protected]

This is exactly what I am talking about.

Just to make an observation - When you specifically ask for opinions and leave it all vague and open-ended, there is no way we can be off-topic. Don't worry - I will move along and will not be wasting any more time with any of your posts. It is clear that you are not here to gain any advice because you think you know it all already. Arrogance in the wild is a very dangerous thing.

[BenOnAdventures]

Quote from my previous post: "It seems clear that when someone poses a question you either dodge the question, get defensive, or ignore the advice. If you are indeed seeking our opinions you will listen to what we are saying... "



This is exactly what I am talking about.

Just to make an observation - When you specifically ask for opinions and leave it all vague and open-ended, there is no way we can be off-topic. Don't worry - I will move along and will not be wasting any more time with any of your posts. It is clear that you are not here to gain any advice because you think you know it all already. Arrogance in the wild is a very dangerous thing. thank you for the reply and putting words in my mouth! No I don't think I know it all so don't even say that. A question for you, aren't questions on this site supposed to be open ended so people can talk about it? Or should they all the yes/no questions? And like I said, don't put words in my mouth. I never once have said and I never will say that I know it all because u can constantly learn new things. Have a great night!

[Another Kevin]

I am totally not trying to rain on your parade; I envy your youth and enthusiasm. But you've set yourself an extraordinarily hard task. The tone of your posts announces your inexperience, and you propose a circuit that would be grueling to the most experienced among us.

The IAT is something of a pipe dream. It's been thru-hiked, which involved connecting a lot of disjoint sections with roadwalks and a fair amount of bushwhacking. Both Skurka and Nimblewill Nomad used the services of locals to help with routefinding through Gaspé. Nimblewill Nomad had days when four miles was an exhausting day. How are your technical canyoneering skills? He reported many precipitous walls in the 'gulches' where side streams joined the Restiguouche. When I consider that he hiked from Long Lake to St. Huberts in the Adirondacks in three days - including the Cold River section of the Northville-Placid, the Calamity Brook trail, and the Great Range, and finished in good enough shape to hike the thirty miles to Crown Point the following day, he's not a slow hiker. If the Restigouche slowed him to where he was making 12 miles on a good day and 4 miles on a bad one, that's saying a lot.

The A-T - well, I'm not going even to go there. Seriously, it's the least of your worries, despite the fact that you're contemplating the hardest part of it.

The Long Trail north of Maine Junction gets you into stuff that's harder than the A-T, but you won't be on it very long. Then you have to find your own way - probably roadwalking, although you can cut off a few miles in local parks - down to Crown Point.

Then comes the Adirondack section of the North Country Trail. How much research have you done on this? Are you simply planning to roadwalk around it, or are you going to be trying to bushwhack the incomplete sections? I've done a few of the bushwhack sections. Expect that you'll be swimming in spruce hell, wading in beaver swamp, tangled in viburnum and blackberry, struggling in knee-deep quicksand, or trying to find your way around sheer rock slabs. Finely honed map and compass skills will be essential - and remember that sight lines are very, very limited with all the vegetation. It's also an area where GPS goes wonky. There are deep gorges that block your view of the satellites, flat rock slabs that give what the radio engineers call 'multipath interference' (end result: incorrect GPS position), and heavy tree cover to attenuate the signal. In that sort of country, I carry an altimeter, because I know that sooner or later I'll have to fix my position by altitude and aspect of slope. Between navigation and routefinding challenges, and the aforementioned hazards, I do well to make a mile in two hours. There have been times when I've run out of daylight on a six-mile day in high summer, when the days are long.

(Incidentally, if you actually wind up going through with this, contact me again and I can get you maps of where the route is intended to go. It's been explored, and some of it may even have been flagged.)

I could go on about the trails, but let me also mention another elephant in the room: winter. You are talking about a long enough route across the northern tier that at some point you are going to be in a mountain winter. Are you a skilled winter mountaineer? Do you know, for instance, how to keep a sleeping bag dry for days at a time in subzero temperatures? How are your skills with snowshoes? With crampons and ice axe? Have you ever extricated yourself from falling in a spruce trap? You can't learn these things from reading about them, and Mother Nature is a cruel teacher, so if you don't know the stuff already, you need lessons. Most of the big trail clubs in the North (AMC, GMC, ADK, I think RMC, I don't know whether DOC's is open to the public) and several of the outfitters offer courses. ADK's (http://www.winterschool.org/) is almost surely the most severe, which I strongly recommend since your skills for this project will have to be top-notch.

I'm not even a tenth of the way through the route you're describing. But I hope I'm giving a feel for what you're up against.

You're proposing something truly extraordinary. You're going to find that most of the people here dismiss you because you've not got a track record that says you might actually pull it off. If Skurka, or Eberhart, were to announce such a thing - well, I'd lay odds against them, but I'd follow the attempt eagerly. But it also wouldn't be their style to jump in here and ask people's opinion. They might ask for advance information about conditions and the like, and then they'd just jump in and do it - having, of course, made impeccable plans and preparations in advance.

Who knows, maybe you'll be the next Skurka or Eberhart. But they didn't start off with their most astonishing accomplishments. Skurka's training for the C2C trip, among other things, was that he'd done a three-month A-T thru-hike the season before.

[Venchka]

Lol I love the comedy I get from everyone

You won't get comedy from Mother Nature. Only Reality.
Hope the CrowdFunding holds out.
My itinerary was at least plausible.
Good luck.

Wayne



Sent from somewhere around here.

[fiddlehead]

Didn't read past the first 2 pages, but, will say this:
I've done something similar in walking a route that I designed.
It took me 6 years and is aprox. 80 miles long.

I used Google Earth a LOT!
I uploaded possible routes, waypoints and places to access on my handheld Garmin.

Luckily, it was in a country where folks don't seem to care if you trespass on their property, are friendly and mostly thought I was lost and gave me food and drink.

I also used an app (the last year anyway, as it wasn't out before that) that tracked my route as I walked it. (yes the Garmin would do this, but I had filled it up in about 2 years.

Study your terrain immensly.
GPS and tracking apps make even small dirt roads show up for resupply options.

Good luck.
Enjoy it.
I think you will.
Going where there is no trail, where possibly no one has been before, is one of the greatest experiences for me anymore.

I've discovered so much doing this.

[Dogwood]

Hey adventurers, i was just thinking, sure to hike the AT would be awesome but what's your opinion on doing a hike no one has ever done before? Where would you begin? Any tips or suggestions for navigation, resupply, etc? Anything is useful. I have an idea of a possible route but what's your opinions on doing something (from what I've researched) that has never been done before? Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon! Any links or anything will be greatly appreciated!


...what's the point of posting the actual intended route?


I just figure what's the point you know?


Great answer!! Okay people. The long adventure I was thinking of is hiking the AT, C2C Route, PCT and southern trails connecting the coast. A huge loop around the country. So what do you all say? Feel free to comment anything helpful or relevant.


longest trip I did was about 150 miles off trail in West Virginia in the mountains. And the reason I don't really have any big trips or anything flashy logged is because I just started that blog a year ago and I'm still working on the logistics of it. Also I really appreciate you making a good suggestion in the first part of your answer. I definitely really do appreciate it


Yes I'm 100% real! I've been doing a lot of research on this, I figured I would ask all of you on here but everyone seems to freak out over any little question. But what's your opinion? Any suggestions or tips for such a big adventure? Anything would be appreciated! Thank you


In context of all your comments:

1) To answer with any degree of ballpark accuracy questions about navigation and resupply I find it imperative to know your route so that is the purpose in knowing your route, from my perspective of what I might offer as assistance. I expect anyone experienced as a LD hiker would know this. Even general questions about navigation and resupply would require knowing your route. AND, IF YOU DID desire general answers to those inquiries it tells me you have a LOONG way to go in your experience and research in attempting this route even potentially in large segments. Yet, you repeatedly reluctantly hesitated to share your route. BTW, you are not the first to consider your route or be the first to complete such a route in piece meal/segmented fashion or circumnavigate the U.S. including by multiple forms of self propelled propulsion.

2) You said you are 100% real and have been doing a lot of research on this route. If I'm to believe this is accurate I would have expected you to already know this - navigation and resupply - has been covered in great detail for major segments of the route...AT, PCT, PNWT, I assume Grand Enchantment Tr, AZT, Joshua Tree NP, major segments of the NCT, Pinhoti, Tr, BMT, etc. In all due respect to White Blaze and you, I would also expect one interested in this route and saying they have researched it to any serious degree NOT to be asking vague questions here on White Blaze concerning it as there are other better more informative and more targeted sources for information on the various segment of your route NOT that you can not learn something here. Yet another red flag that is raised in my mind as a well experienced U.S. LD hiker having done more than 1/2 of the total miles of your proposed route. Currently, you're research is sorely lacking!

BTW, I'll be thru-hiking the PNWT and bicycle touring between Atlanta and San Diego within the upcoming three yrs so all I'd be lacking is the NCT which I've already done parts of but have NO desire to thru-hike. Already have the AT, PCT, CDT, GET, AZT, Ouachita Tr, Lone Star Tr, Pinhoti Tr, BMT, and all but 85 bushwacking miles of Skurka's Great Western Loop between the AZT/GET and PCT. I believe Nimblewill Nomad has done the Great Western Loop in segments too.

3) I'm interested in knowing what specific serious research you have done closing the Outer U.S. Loop in the south between the PCT and AT? I know how I would attempt most of it, or already have done major miles of it, but I can see NO WAY of doing such without MAJOR ROAD WALKING of more than 1100+ miles without it becoming MAJORLY CIRCUITOUS. I looked into this. Not interested.

4) Prove me wrong but I see MAJOR obstacles to overcome attempting this Loop as a continuous unbroken LOOOOOONG Distance hike/Thru-hike. I will NOT even begin discussing or debating these challenges as you should know them yourself IF you do any serious research other than to say it will be a VERY VERY SERIOUS 4 season thru-hike. GOOD LUCK with that! To the best of my knowledge doing it in piece meal fashion has largely been done already without the FULL southern closure as a serious of hikes. IMHO, it's not that BIG a deal for several LD hikers at the top of the heap; hold onto this thought!

You said:
reality check? Where was the reality check when man First wanted to go to the moon? I'm sure there a lot of people freaking out about that. Where was the reality check when people were wanting to climb Mount Everest? That's pretty crazy of an adventure if I do say so myself. Where's the reality check for people who go and explore the polar caps? Those are so far from civilization if something goes wrong they could be doomed. It didn't stop them. Reality check? I believe you have just checked me into the reality of a world that is full of opportunity for exploration, I truly thank you for this! Have an awesome night you just made my night!

HERE IS THE REALITY CHECK! Like M.J. Eberhart "Nimblewill Nomad", Andrew Skurka, Cam Honan "Swami", Justin Lichter "Trauma", Shawn Forry "Pepper", Francis Taupon "The Onion", Scott Williamson, Jennifer Pharr Davis "Odyssa", Heather Anderson "Anish", Liz Thomas, "Snorkel", and a whole lot of others, some here on WB, etc, etc, etc, the first astronauts of the Mercury Mission, the first to set foot on the moon, Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, the first to summit Mt Everest, Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, the first to the North pole, Peary, Cook, and Hensen or the first to the South Pole, Roald Amundson, NONE acheived their most epic achievements/treks/adventures UNTIL AFTER WORKING UP TO IT. They ALL put in their training, research, and gained valuable experience FIRST! They did not act in a rash manner! They counted the cost!

Luke 14:28-29 Which of you, wishing to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost to see if he has the resources to complete it? For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you,


I ask, do you feel you are at the top of the heap? have the resources? done your homework? have gained the experience needed to currently pull off your epic loop? DO YOU HAVE THE HONESTY AND HUMBLENESS TO ADMIT WHEN YOU DO NOT?

If not I suggest you seek to inspire others by exploring FIRST a shorter LD hike! There is NO disgrace or lack in that worthy achievement for the goals you shared.

[Traveler]

touche lol. Either way, I wasn't on here running a debate, I was on here to get information for suggestions that would be good for a trip of this magnitude

I suggest a map of the high voltage power wire corridors around the US. Put them together for a giant loop hike starting in NJ, south into the FL panhandle, west to San Diego, north to Seattle, and east to NYC. Should take about a year.

[Viper2016]

Didn't Colin Fletcher write a book on a long hike in a remote area using prearranged caches, air drops, etc.? Where no man has gone before? That's a tough question, but there's a start on how to begin the logistics of resupply.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Traveler]

Apparently Ben got bored with the adult stuff and left. He is bound to resurface with another idea of the day for his blog though. Stay tuned!

[rocketsocks]

I suggest a map of the high voltage power wire corridors around the US. Put them together for a giant loop hike starting in NJ, south into the FL panhandle, west to San Diego, north to Seattle, and east to NYC. Should take about a year.Best idea I've heard yet, you could also plan a bailout point right smack down the middle on the Keystone Pipeline...oh wait, they haven't built that yet, never mind.

[colorado_rob]

Again, PATHETIC negativism. Always from the same WB'ers, who lack any adventurist spirit whatsoever. Cyber/virtual hikers. Sad.

[Venchka]

Didn't Colin Fletcher write a book on a long hike in a remote area using prearranged caches, air drops, etc.? Where no man has gone before? That's a tough question, but there's a start on how to begin the logistics of resupply.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Either "The 1,000 Mile Summer" along the eastern Sierras, or "The Man Who Walked Through Time" through the inner canyon of The Grand Canyon, when the park was in it's original configuration. Take your pick. He did place caches himself making both hikes truly self-supported. Not sure about the air drops.

Wayne

[booney_1]

Here's a suggestion from NC. Hike the Mountain to Sea Trail. It runs from the Smokies to the Outer Banks. (1150 miles). There's a full trail for about 700 miles, and in between sections follow bike greenways or backroads. It's being continually worked on...this is like the Appalachian Trail in the early days. On their web site they list people who have completed it...in 2015 there were 2, in 2014...9. The final chapters of the guide book will be done in Feb 16. There are a couple of other guides available. This is no green tunnel connecting shelters every 8 miles. I think there are many places you will need to stealth camp. This looks like a really cool trip...

[Viper2016]

Venchka: seem to remember the air drop scenario, long, long ago; something about carrying a flare and bright colored tarp, and either carrying a parachute out or retrieving it later. Again the early years of my backpacking

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[Viper2016]

Now all we have to do is identify a route no one has gone before

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[Venchka]

Venchka: seem to remember the air drop scenario, long, long ago; something about carrying a flare and bright colored tarp, and either carrying a parachute out or retrieving it later. Again the early years of my backpacking

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Fair enough. I believe you. Alas, I have not read either book. Wish I had. The man knew what he was doing and enjoyed the challenge.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Again, PATHETIC negativism. Always from the same WB'ers, who lack any adventurist spirit whatsoever. Cyber/virtual hikers. Sad.Rob, several of us suggested to Ben that he pursue his desire for adventure by embarking on a more realistic adventure, such as actually starting AND COMPLETING single thru-hike of the AT or other long trail before committing to grander adventures. That's actually pretty positive. Yeah, some of that advice was blended into commentary, and some of us poked a little fun at his expense. WB is a tough audience. But the notion that everyone has to be supportive of all the half-baked ideas and plans of others only works in a fairy tale society. Real life isn't like that. Some ideas and dreams deserve to wind up on the planning room floor. Because they are inherently flawed and almost always not well thought out.

Every couple of years someone with zero to little long distance hiking experience somehow romanticizes that they can hike 30 or 40 mpd for 10,000+ miles through "snow and rain and heat and gloom of night" - because "once-upon-a-time" they hiked a couple of 30 mile days one summer (and then went home after the big weekend). And they always fail miserably. Because that is the harsh reality. Encouraging someone to take the smaller steps necessary to grow into even bigger adventures, rather than pursue a plan doomed to failure, isn't PATHETIC negativism, it's responsible criticism. And by default, that criticism is solicited when one announces such plans publicly. People shouldn't complain when the the answers they receive don't make them happy or stroke their egos.

[Traveler]

Best idea I've heard yet, you could also plan a bailout point right smack down the middle on the Keystone Pipeline...oh wait, they haven't built that yet, never mind.

Given the failure rate of these pipelines lately, walking under high tension transmission wires is a lot safer!

[dzierzak]

Just an observation:

70 threads started since 3/30/2015 with the first being "I'm a 21 year old guy looking for a female adventure partner! This is my first post! (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/110312-I-m-a-21-year-old-guy-looking-for-a-female-adventure-partner!-This-is-my-first-post!)



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by BenOnAdventures