Safe to light Pocket Rocket with Flint/Steel?

[slbirdnerd]

I'm headed out for a week and normally only carry my mini Bic lighter. It's been suggested I also carry matches, just in case. I hate to carry two things when I might be able to take just one, right? I'm lamenting about this and my Scout says, why not just take his Light My Fire Flint/Steel and leave the lighter AND the matches at home? From the mouths of babes...

Is is safe to light a Pocket Rocket with that?

Thanks!

[HooKooDooKu]

Two things...

#1. The thing I wouldn't like about using a flint/steel is that you have to have the gas on first (wasting gas) to start sparking. But with the mini-bic (which is what I use), you can light the bic before turning on the gas.

#2. Why would you consider the need to include matches as a backup to the bic but then give yourself no backup for the flint/steel.
BTW, I sort of consider a bic to already have a built-in backup... so long as the sparker still works, you can still light the stove with the bic.

Bonus. #3. Do a few matches as a backup really add that much weight or space? You don't even need a full pack, just the matches, the striker part of the box, and something to keep them dry (I like the pill-sized zip lock bags you can get at places like CVS).

[Offshore]

In a word - NO. You'd have to turn the gas on before striking, so you'd have a lot of isobutane around the stove when it actually caught and lit. This gas cloud could have unintended and unfortunate consequences - think of the "whoosh" when starting a gas grill on the second or third piezo igniter push. Just carry some matches as a backup - they are lighter than adding a burn kit to your first aid setup.

[Just Bill]

You probably won't die- oddly they show exactly what you propose on the site-
http://www.lightmyfire.com/products/products/swedish-firesteel-20.aspx#tab2:SPECIFICATIONS

It takes a bit of practice, and it's a decent skill to have...

That said, Eagle Scout that I am, two mini-bic lighters and a pill bag to store one buried deep in your pack for an emergency still weigh less than one light my fire.
It's good to know fire starting tricks all the way down to a bow drill just fer fun.
But the reality is it's really hard to argue backing up a bic with anything other than another bic.

[4eyedbuzzard]

A good Scout would also tell you to always be prepared. IF fire starting capability is important enough to either comfort or survival in an emergency, you need a back up to any primary fire starting device you normally use. It could be another lighter in a dry location, a fire steel, or a few waterproof matches, or . . . I keep a spare mini Bic in my first aid kit - and a couple of waterproof matches. The added weight is negligible.

Things I've discovered over the years regarding fire starting:

You can lose your one and only fire starting device or it can malfunction, hence the need for a back-up.

Never rely on the built-in piezoelectric igniters on stoves.

Smokers will ALWAYS have multiple back-up fire sources.

Bic lighters (including minis) are pretty darn good and better than most other brand disposables. And they will still provide a spark when out of butane. BUT, if they (or other lighters) get wet, the flint will mush on the striker wheel and not spark. If you don't realize it has gotten water in it and try to strike it, once when it is wet it will clog and foul the striker wheel and often then never work again. Sometimes you can dry them out and save them, but it's 50/50 at best. If the lighter gets overheated, such as in trying to light damp tinder, it can also melt the plastic inside and mess up the flint mechanism.

A battery and the spring from a retractable pen can be Macgyvered and used as an electric heater coil and provide an ignition source. There are even lighters sold that operate on this principle. There are chemicals that can be mixed (Potassium Permanganate and Glycerin), but this is pretty fringe and not as easy as often shown on TV shows. Trying to start a fire with a friction bow will keep you warm too, but mostly due to the physical effort and frustration.

Hand sanitizer is a great multipurpose fire starting aid. As is a little olive oil from your food kit. There's the old standby cotton balls in Vaseline. And pistachio shells. And Doritos. Anything dry that has alcohol or oil in it will usually help get a fire going in wet weather.

The absolute need for starting a survival fire in most hiking situations on most trails is over-rated. Does the need occasionally arise? Yes. Perhaps you'll read of a few instances per year. The warmth can help someone stay warm, smoke can help locate you, and perhaps the fire can even help ward off man eating animals (okay, now that's pretty hard-core). But most of us will go our entire lives without ever needing a true survival fire.

But I still carry a back-up.

[FarmerChef]

I've done it many times. It takes a bit of practice so as not to waste the fuel but it can be done safely. That said, I do carry 2 bic lighters for most of the reasons others have expressed. But I do a poor job of keeping them from getting fouled and have learned to basically use my flint and steel in virtually all of my fire building/stove lighting needs. It won't, however, light a candle :)

[Lone Wolf]

just bring a dang bic lighter. flint and steel is foolish

[slbirdnerd]

Wow, guys, thanks for all the great info! I'm definitely convinced, just take the 2 lighters. Although I really have always been fine with one, this is my first multi-day "winter" trip.

[StubbleJumper]

I'm a two mini-Bic guy as well. They are very light and they work well. Having a spare provides redundancy for only a few grams and less than a dollar.

On the subject of buying mini-Bics, every few years I purchase a multi-pack from WalMart or Target which gives you 5 or 6 lighters for $3 or $4. When buying the multi-packs of mini-Bics, dig through the packages a bit to get some colours that are not easily lost when you drop your lighter on the ground. While mauve, peacock blue and pink are not the most masculine colours, they are easy to find on the forest floor. Green and brown are much more likely to be camouflaged amongst the grass and leaves.

[perdidochas]

I'm headed out for a week and normally only carry my mini Bic lighter. It's been suggested I also carry matches, just in case. I hate to carry two things when I might be able to take just one, right? I'm lamenting about this and my Scout says, why not just take his Light My Fire Flint/Steel and leave the lighter AND the matches at home? From the mouths of babes...

Is is safe to light a Pocket Rocket with that?

Thanks!
Probably so, but you have to remember that the safest way to use a ferrosteel, is to keep the knife steady, and pull the firesteel away from what you are lighting. A safer bet is one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Survival-Technologies-BlastMatch/dp/B00T1E94VW/ref=pd_sbs_468_15?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HZCKG9AMVGGDGZ7A849

[HooKooDooKu]

...BUT, if they (or other lighters) get wet, the flint will mush on the striker wheel and not spark. If you don't realize it has gotten water in it and try to strike it, once when it is wet it will clog and foul the striker wheel and often then never work again...
Thanks for the info... didn't quite realize how bad things could go if my bic got wet... but then for some reason I've always kept my mini-bic in one of those pill-size zip-lock bags I mentioned.

[Just Bill]

If you wanted to be super prepared, you can put one of those moisture absorber packs into your pill bag backup...but that's overkill IMO.

I like to wrap my Leukotape around my lighters, spare as well- a spare lighter and some first aid tape are two items worth keeping in any kit. You can also slip in a razor blade, needle, and 10yds of artificial sinew for another few grams for a complete "oh ****" kit for an ounce and hardly any space.

I don't recall the model, but Bird Brain and other alchy stove heads do use a flint striker that makes sense to carry if you have that stove type. It's not too safe to reach into an alchy stove so "tossing a spark" makes sense for that type of stove...

[Another Kevin]

But the reality is it's really hard to argue backing up a bic with anything other than another bic.


A good Scout would also tell you to always be prepared. IF fire starting capability is important enough to either comfort or survival in an emergency, you need a back up to any primary fire starting device you normally use. It could be another lighter in a dry location, a fire steel, or a few waterproof matches, or . . . I keep a spare mini Bic in my first aid kit - and a couple of waterproof matches. The added weight is negligible.
...
The absolute need for starting a survival fire in most hiking situations on most trails is over-rated. Does the need occasionally arise? Yes. Perhaps you'll read of a few instances per year. The warmth can help someone stay warm, smoke can help locate you, and perhaps the fire can even help ward off man eating animals (okay, now that's pretty hard-core). But most of us will go our entire lives without ever needing a true survival fire.

But I still carry a back-up.

Me, I carry a mini-Bic in my pocket, another one in my cook set, and a few waterproof matches in my first aid kit. But I also carry firesteel and tinderbox, and find that they tend to be the first-line ignition source.

I don't use a canister stove. I use alcohol all year round. If I did long winter trips, where alcohol would be to heavy (or too slow for snow melting), I'd carry a naphtha stove. Canisters don't work in deep winter. (Maybe the newfangled inverted canister designs do. I haven't tried. I know a Whisperlite does.) But I don't do long winter trips. I switch to peak bagging. Just Bill, you've seen me light an alky stove with a firesteel. Twice. Thanks again for the spoon. (I consider it a fair trade for fetching your cookpot back from the raccoon.)

I've been at least within halloaing distance of a survival-fire situation. About this time last year, I fell in a river, with the air temperature 35 °F or so. I'd gathered wood on the near bank before starting the ford, to have a safe place to retreat. I fished myself out, and had a fire going in minutes. My tinder box was dripping water, but water doesn't wet Vaseline-impregnated cotton or amadou. A firesteel doesn't mind being wet. The Bic in my pocket was ruined. Since it was late in the day, I just changed into my sleeping baselayer and made camp where I was. The next morning I woke up to find that the water had risen. I wound up whacking about a half mile upstream to where I found a safer place to ford.

Oh, and I have lit a candle with a firesteel. Put a wisp of vaseline-soaked cotton, or even a tiny bit of TP, around the wick and drop the spark onto that.

[FarmerChef]

Oh, and I have lit a candle with a firesteel. Put a wisp of vaseline-soaked cotton, or even a tiny bit of TP, around the wick and drop the spark onto that.

Challenge accepted, AK :) I'm sure you have and now I have the urge to go try. And I actually prefer to light my alcohol stove with my firesteel rather than the light because of the angle of the lighter to light it and my proximity to the fuel. Tossing a spark in seems much easier for me (not necessarily for everyone else).

[Chris10]

Always take a couple of the bic minis, and put them in a small plastic Baggie to help keep them dry, and maybe a few matches as back-ups. Though if two lighters fail, I'm probably in trouble! :)

[Five Tango]

I just love these "fire making" threads since I am apparently a bit of a pyro........And I have tried lots of different primatve techniques including bow drill (it's mostly effortless once you understand that you are drilling and rewinding the spindle rather than pushing it),and the real flint,steel,& charcloth is always a winner,but magnesium and ferro rods are flint and steel on steroids.Fire pistons are strictly a fun "parlor trick" in my book and not all that dependable.All that said,nothing beats a Bic and a birthday candle for starting a campfire.They are cheap,so carry more than one in a ziplock and keep one on your person.But the best backup I have for a gas stove is this handy little MSR piezo that weights in at .5oz.It will light gas stoves and alcohol burners too.(helps if the alcohol is warm though)link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZVMS2C?keywords=piezo%20lighter&qid=1444819935&ref_=sr_1_1&s=outdoor-recreation&sr=1-1

[Five Tango]

In my forgetful old age I forgot to point out that the easy way to light alcohol with your Bic lighter is to dip a twig in the fuel.Light the twig and use it to light the stove......no burnt fingers that way.......