View Full Version : Flint and steel...really needed?
Hello everyone,
I've told some friends/family about my April start on the Appalachian Trail NOBO and have been asked about what I'm bringing to start a fire. Actually, it's what are the 3 things that you are taking to start a fire. My answer was a mini bic and maybe a book of matches. How many of you carried a flint and steel? I've ordered a flintstones rod magnesium off of ebay for under 2 bucks but don't really think I will need this. What do you think?
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mattjv89
10-17-2015, 18:15
Never saw anyone carry a flint and steel. I did fine with two lighters, ideally in different locations so that if one gets wet the other is hopefully still dry. If your lighter burns out you'll surely not be far from somebody with one you can borrow. Careful with basing your gear list on what friends and family suggest you carry, the #1 gear question I got prior to my thru hike is why aren't you carrying a handgun.
MuddyWaters
10-17-2015, 18:29
Lighter is a flint, steel, and fuel source combined.
Lighter, and matches , is all I take.
Fires are not LNT, and should not be made if you ask me. Too many think they need a stinky fire every night. It gets in hair and clothes and you smell for days.
Odd Man Out
10-17-2015, 18:30
I too carry a mini Bic and a book of matches.
Starchild
10-17-2015, 18:56
Lighter is a flint, steel, and fuel source combined.
Lighter, and matches , is all I take.
Fires are not LNT, and should not be made if you ask me. Too many think they need a stinky fire every night. It gets in hair and clothes and you smell for days.
Fires are included LNT practices, you can visit LNT.org web site for ways of minimizing their impact and their usage, but unquestionably acceptable under LNT guidelines. Choosing not to have a fire is also equally ok under LNT guidelines.
The smoke helps when a shower is not available, a smoke bath is far preferred to body hiker funk. That it lasts is a benefit, not a flaw.
Either two mini bics or one lighter and matches. Backup is fully sealed in case of emergency.
shelterbuilder
10-17-2015, 19:41
A mini-Bic and a match safe full of "waterproof" matches. I have nothing but respect for the outdoorsperson who can make fire with flint and steel, but it's not exactly UL. (Of course, neither is my fire piston....) Whatever you carry, make sure that you KNOW that you can make a fire with it when the chips are down.
Thanks all!
That's what I thought...
mattjv89.....yeah my .40 Glock with 1 mag of 14 hollow points and level 2 holster comes in at 37.6 oz...that's like carrying an extra tent!
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Sarcasm the elf
10-17-2015, 20:25
I carry a mini bic in my food bag and keep a backup one in my first aid kit. Bics almost never fail, the biggest risk is losing them.
To me those firesteel type strikers are primarily a novelty. They do a great job of keeping boy scouts occupied in a productive fashion while outdoors (I probably went through 10 of them in scouts), but there are just far more practical ways of making fire for my purposes.
There are some people who swear by firesteel for lighting my alcohol stoves, but that's not my are of expertise.
Sarcasm the elf
10-17-2015, 20:27
Thanks all!
That's what I thought...
mattjv89.....yeah my .40 Glock with 1 mag of 14 hollow points and level 2 holster comes in at 37.6 oz...that's like carrying an extra tent!
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Consider going UL, this stuff weighs less than half of standard .40S&W
http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Liberty-Civil-Defense-40-S-W-60-Grain-p/liberty40.htm
donthaveoneyet
10-17-2015, 21:16
Thanks all!
That's what I thought...
mattjv89.....yeah my .40 Glock with 1 mag of 14 hollow points and level 2 holster comes in at 37.6 oz...that's like carrying an extra tent!
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A Ruger LCP .380 weighs 9.4 oz. You can get a Kel-Tek or NAA down to around 6 oz (I think in .22 LR). That said, I don't carry when hiking, if I felt that was necessary, I would find another sport.
As for "flint and steel", is that the same thing as one of these? I always carry this thing, and have started fires (with vaseline-soaked cotton balls) and many times an alcohol stove with it.
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fastfoxengineering
10-17-2015, 21:33
On a typical thru-hike of at AT, you should ever need to start a survival fire if carrying the proper equipment. It's kind of the same reason you don't need a survival knife, your carrying a shelter correct? You shouldn't have to ever build a survival fire because you have insulation to keep you safe.
I still carry a ferro rod and striker while backpacking because I'm a pyro and enjoy practicing my bush craft skills. I also use a wood cooking stove so I'm lighting fires often.
Bic lighters are the bomb though. Tough, reliable, cheap, and can light many fires. If its cold and won't light. Stick in under your armpit for 5 minutes. If it gets soaked and wont light. Dry out the flint by spinning the striker wheel on your pants. Over and over again about 20-30 times. This will dry out the flint and will light again.
For a thru-hiker, I think the best fire kit would be a mini-bic in the hip belt pocket, accompanied by another mini-bic in a ziplock in the the first aid kit.
For "fire starters".. I stopped carrying them. There are at least 5 things in my pack I can use to start a fire. Hand sanitizer and tp is the first items that comes to mind in my pack. Nature also provides fire starters everywhere.
Dochartaigh
10-18-2015, 11:06
So much talk about Bic's here! I love it! My own play on that is how I keep my back-up mini Bic: I seal it in a vacuum food bag (foorsaver-type, cut down to small size) with a zip-tie under tied under the gas release so you can't accidentally release all the gas and it's always good to go.
Another Kevin
10-18-2015, 16:23
I carry a mini bic in my food bag and keep a backup one in my first aid kit. Bics almost never fail, the biggest risk is losing them.
To me those firesteel type strikers are primarily a novelty. They do a great job of keeping boy scouts occupied in a productive fashion while outdoors (I probably went through 10 of them in scouts), but there are just far more practical ways of making fire for my purposes.
There are some people who swear by firesteel for lighting my alcohol stoves, but that's not my are of expertise.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm one of 'some people,' since I've hiked with Elf a few times. :)
I carry a couple of Bic's and occasionally use one, but for lighting my alky stove or dropping a spark into some fire starter for a campfire, the firesteel is my 'go to' device. I don't have to worry about it getting wet, or about having it in an inside pocket in winter.
Five Tango
10-18-2015, 17:26
I camped out in the mid forties last night.Bic works a lot better when you put it in your waist band for a few minutes.Alkie stove was reluctant to go first thing this morning but a piece of pine straw left to burn in it did the trick.Last night's campfire(well established fire pit on private property) was accomplished with a birthday candle and a small piece of paper from a Packit Gourmet meal.Just spike the candle in the ground,add the paper and a hand full of twigs to start and you're done.I have all manner of primitive and modern devices but for convenience,Bic and a Birthday Candle is hard to beat..............
Fire starting is a skill worth having. But flint and steel work great in books and other fantasies and without a lot of practice not so great in real life.
shakey_snake
10-19-2015, 17:23
A ferro rod w/knife is a super easy way to get sparks to light an alcohol stove, but using it to start a camp fire is an exercise for boy scouts, not something a sane person would bother themselves with.
Really, a camp fire in general is a chore/responsibility and I'm usually too busy hiking or sleeping to want to bother with it. Carrying a warm enough sleeping bag is a lot easier.
4eyedbuzzard
10-19-2015, 20:43
Hello everyone,
I've told some friends/family about my April start on the Appalachian Trail NOBO and have been asked about what I'm bringing to start a fire. Actually, it's what are the 3 things that you are taking to start a fire. My answer was a mini bic and maybe a book of matches. How many of you carried a flint and steel? I've ordered a flintstones rod magnesium off of ebay for under 2 bucks but don't really think I will need this. What do you think?
AEspecially early in your hike, unless you're the first one at a shelter or campsite, someone will likely already have a fire going. If you lose your bic and your backup, yogi a pack of matches from another hiker - there will be plenty of other hikers on the trail. Then buy a replacement at the next town.
Knowing how to and being capable of starting a fire is a lifesaver. A ferro rod and steel is a good back up for the unthinkable.
FarmerChef
10-19-2015, 21:59
Is it necessary? No. A lighter is truly all you will probably use. Then again, having a firesteel handy can make all the difference in the right circumstances. Me, I carry both but primarily use the firesteel to light both my alcohol stove, gas stove and wood fires. I bring my own tinder; I don't try to gather it on the spot and light it with the steel. That would take quite a bit of preparation when a little lint and cotton ball will do the trick rather nicely.
I carry a lighter and a flint. I use both to light my alc stove, just depends on how I feel. One of the guys I hiked a section with a week ago only used a flint. Lighters are by far the most common that I saw but flints were no surprise to anyone. Just a thing for me but I always carry a backup for starting a fire.
fiddlehead
10-20-2015, 04:14
I actually prefer the cheap Asian lighters that don't require you to press that little tab down to ire up the bic.
I've had problems when my hands are very cold and the hypothermia setting in with those things.
But those cheap ones can go dry much quicker as the flame can be set to go a lot higher. (which can be nice when trying to start a fire also)
Don't know where you buy them in the states.
I'd hit chinatown in a major city to look probably.
rusty bumper
10-20-2015, 08:28
Mini Bic and a dozen waterproof matches in a ziploc.
I'd prefer to carry a 3rd lighter in a baggie. Hiking done right isn't survival, it's an extended picnic - in my opinion.
A small container of lint or cotton soaked in Vaseline, kerosene or even your cooking oil would be more helpful than flint and steel. Even the sparks from a dead lighter could conceivably get that combination going. And in the end that would be using flint and steel.
If you have trouble starting a fire with flint and steel its probably because you're not using them correctly. Properly done it shouldn't take you any longer than using a bic lighter, which I agree most people will lose before it fails on you.
Traveler
10-25-2015, 15:26
A small container of lint or cotton soaked in Vaseline, kerosene or even your cooking oil would be more helpful than flint and steel. Even the sparks from a dead lighter could conceivably get that combination going. And in the end that would be using flint and steel.
I can attest that works. Last winter, deep in the heart of some very cold weather, my lighter didn't want to work but the sparks did indeed ignite the cotton ball with Vaseline.
I carry a Bic and a few stick matches, also have a fire steel that is hanging on a zipper pull. Not one for a fire when hiking, find it too much work unless absolutely needed, burning enough calories walking, without foraging for firewood for anything more than a cooking or survival fire. If tinder is needed I usually have a chip bag along, throw a little tinder inside and light it off, handy when it is a bit windy.
I have a small diameter Swedish Firesteel to draw toward me across my zelph Starlyte stove. It's fun.
The weight penalty isn't much. It weighs less than a mini BIC lighter.
Doughnut
10-29-2015, 07:11
I met a honey mooning couple in the 100 mile wilderness who was carrying a 40' rope from a shrimping boat! His new Uncle-In-Law told him "You'll need this on the trail" Of course the Uncle has never hiked,,,, Look at the source of what you'll "need". before you pack it!!
That' why White Blaze I such an awesome sight!
I carry a small Bic for normal situations and a small flint & steel for very cold situations. Here in Canada in dead of winter Bic is not reliable to start a stove and I have been in occasions that my hands and fingers had lost it's dexterity to use a Bic lighter that is not designed for extreme cold.
I can always rely on a flint and steel in any situation ( extreme cold and wet weather) but I can't rely on a lighter to save the day. If not hiking in very cold weather then a Bic ( or two) does the job.
pdmayfield
11-01-2015, 00:50
I carry a mini bic in my food bag and keep a backup one in my first aid kit. Bics almost never fail, the biggest risk is losing them.
To me those firesteel type strikers are primarily a novelty. They do a great job of keeping boy scouts occupied in a productive fashion while outdoors (I probably went through 10 of them in scouts), but there are just far more practical ways of making fire for my purposes.
There are some people who swear by firesteel for lighting my alcohol stoves, but that's not my are of expertise.
Recently I have been exploring bushcrafting. Also, recently did a 30 mi section. I made two fires on this section. Carried ferro-rod (aka firesteel) and a bic lighter. never used the bic lighter and made the fastest fires I have ever made in my life. I'll always carry a bic and/or matches in my fire kit as back up, but i'm using ferro-rods from now.
I carry a box of waterproof matches sealed in a Food Saver bag as a back up. I use a Bic lighter for lighting my stove.
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lonehiker
11-01-2015, 08:51
I only carry a tiny flint and steel. Works perfectly for my alcohol stove and I don't burn the hair on back of my fingers as I did with the mini Bic.
I carry a flint & steel with two bics as my primary fire source if needed. I use a large steel washer about the size of a quarter to strike against the flint, I feel it works better. (more sparks)
Kookork brings up an excellent point, that in front of our computers or on warm days our hands will work perfect, but when cold sets into them flint and steel can be very difficult to use. I know that we need to prevent hands from turning into blocks of wood, but it does happen. It happened to me two weeks ago taking my mitts off to take a few pics.
I had a Boy Scout Flint and Steel kit as a youth. Came with a handful or straw. I must have spent a week over the years, trying to start a fire. Never came close.
Recently, I saw a frontier reenactor use flint to start a fire and it was "Like using a match". Then, I googled and the secret seems to be "char cloth". It is cloth carburized inside a tin (like altoids") in a fire. One spark on the cloth and blow and VIOLA!!
A few cotton balls smeared with a bit of petroleum jelly tucked away in that Altoids tin with the firesteel is all you need.
Five Tango
11-01-2015, 14:40
Any Zippo fans out there?
Another Kevin
11-04-2015, 15:08
I carry a flint & steel with two bics as my primary fire source if needed. I use a large steel washer about the size of a quarter to strike against the flint, I feel it works better. (more sparks)
Kookork brings up an excellent point, that in front of our computers or on warm days our hands will work perfect, but when cold sets into them flint and steel can be very difficult to use. I know that we need to prevent hands from turning into blocks of wood, but it does happen. It happened to me two weeks ago taking my mitts off to take a few pics.
On the contrary, I find that a Bic is hard to work with cold hands. A firesteel is much easier.