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FooFooCuddlyPoops
10-21-2015, 21:50
I am sure I will meet many more in my life time, but this guy really urked me.

A few weeks ago I was hiking at apple orchard mountains. We car camped at the trail head and was making our way to the summit to see the waterfall. As we were hiking, we passed a guy with a fishing pole. I was having a little trouble at one of the log bridges with my youngest pup so he paused to allow me to deal with her. He was nice about it, and even seemed apologetic when the fishing pole he carried scared her even more.

what urked me is his comment about shoes. I am sure he was only trying to warn me, and such but he was still kind of a dick about it.

Basically...after I grabbed my dog (on leash, just scared), he said, "You guys should be careful hiking up to the top. The rocks can be slippery."

I half smiled. "Oh, I have been here a few times before. I know my way up."

He did a slow, pan, obvious scrutinizing look down to my shoes, "Yeah, but tennis shoes aren't really good grippers when it comes to rocks..."

I just did a half smile again, and told him we would be careful before making our way again. I am not entirely annoyed, but he did urk me a little. The trail is only rocky in like two places, and each time we came, I was ether in sandles or tennis shoes.

In a way, I did feel a little superior. I can hike in crap shoes with ease. I actually did a 8 mile section hike last weekend in the same shoes because the store did not have the right size when I went to check out the shoes I've been eyeing online.

Mr. Bumpy
10-21-2015, 21:59
"irk" not "urk"
Just sayin'

Redrowen
10-21-2015, 22:02
Maybe you're the one who needs an attitude adjustment since you were so easily "urked" and by how "superior" you felt. Seems like you're about at that point of being a "Hiker Snob" yourself.

TNhiker
10-21-2015, 22:18
Maybe you're the one who needs an attitude adjustment since you were so easily "urked" and by how "superior" you felt. Seems like you're about at that point of being a "Hiker Snob" yourself.




that's how i read the post as well..............

Tuckahoe
10-21-2015, 22:20
Although unsolicited advice may be irksome, as related by you, it sounded more like the guy was merely concerned for your safety and well being rather than being a hiker snob.

MuddyWaters
10-21-2015, 23:40
Did i miss the snobbish part? Sounds like normal opinionated hikers to me.

The 3 Beez
10-22-2015, 00:01
I've had several hiking friends who after just a few hundred miles are experts telling other hikers what type of pack is best, what type of shoes they should be wearing, what section of trail is the best and what should and should not be in their packs. If was funny them telling others with just a few miles they have hiked. Everyone is a expert aren't they... woops better watch my spelling and punctuation before someone corrects me. Everyone has opinions right or wrong. I liked it better being a newbie.

rocketsocks
10-22-2015, 00:43
hey, we all get erkitated sometimes.

JaketheFake
10-22-2015, 01:15
Don't be an urk!

waywardfool
10-22-2015, 01:27
You have now been "urked"....



32417

Trailweaver
10-22-2015, 01:49
Well, he was trying to be helpful, however "irksome" it was. It is well documented that people tend to slip on the rocks surrounding waterfalls and creeks. . . maybe he really was concerned. Also, I didn't realize until recently how much the "technology" of hiker shoes has advanced in the last few years. I had a pair of hiking boots I loved, and was determined to wear them until they "died of old age." Well, I recently bought a new pair of hiking shoes (could no longer get the style of boots I so favored), and WOW! Those shoes have a specialized rubber sole that "grips" the rocks like you wouldn't believe! I will never, ever hike in "tennis shoe" type shoes again. I love these new shoes, and they are so much safer than what I was hiking in.

fiddlehead
10-22-2015, 07:09
Have a friend (triple crowner PLUS 2 thru-hikes) who makes much of his own equipment.
He secretly loves going out on the AT and having people telling him he's doing it wrong.
Just enjoy it!
No need to get upset.
Life should be fun right?

daddytwosticks
10-22-2015, 07:12
Hiker? Sounds like he was a fisherman. :)

rickb
10-22-2015, 07:15
Maybe you're the one who needs an attitude adjustment since you were so easily "urked" and by how "superior" you felt. Seems like you're about at that point of being a "Hiker Snob" yourself.

Yea, but if we were all being honest haven't a lot of us felt the same way in similar situations? i know I have.

Its a bit different in the telling, but Mags once posted a very good one when he was questioned about his gear. I wish I could find it-- I rember laughing at the time.

A lot of people are still on a sugar buzz regarding "proper footwear" I'm the woods. Used to be that was a common critique in the accident evaluations published in the Appalacia journal. It was a given that if you had sneakers in the woods you would be taken to task for it.

Pedaling Fool
10-22-2015, 07:20
Sounds like this story has the potential to be another Mary Ellen story, like in the book: A Walk in the Woods.

You should have channeled your inner Bill Bryson and you would of had people rolling on the floor:)

vamelungeon
10-22-2015, 07:27
No matter how "helpful" a person may think they are, unsolicited advice is just that- unsolicited.

Pedaling Fool
10-22-2015, 07:44
..."Yeah, but tennis shoes aren't really good grippers when it comes to rocks..."...
Anyone ever wonder why we refer sneakers as Tennis Shoes? Tennis isn't exactly a common sport here in the States, but a lot of people seem to refer to sneakers as Tennis shoes -- I've even done it, but I don't know why...:-?

Pedaling Fool
10-22-2015, 07:52
Some interesting history on various lingo of sneakers, tennis shoes.... http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/difference-between-tennis-shoes-sneakers-4077.html

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/11/athletic-shoes-called-sneakers/

shakey_snake
10-22-2015, 08:08
So you're dragging a long a little foo foo dog that's scared of walking across logs and this guy thinks it'd be nice to warn you about how difficult the trail conditions are ahead.

WUT. A. *****LORD.

Old Hiker
10-22-2015, 08:43
No matter how "helpful" a person may think they are, unsolicited advice is just that- unsolicited.

So, by this reasoning, when/if I walk by a family in summer type clothing with small kids KNOWING a cold front with associated stormage is coming in the next hour or so, I just keep walking and say nothing?

Granted – checking out the shoes BEFORE saying anything may have been patronizing, but I’m always happy to hear a warning about conditions ahead, regardless of how long I’ve been hiking.

illabelle
10-22-2015, 09:01
Nobody can tell by looking at me whether I've just stepped into the woods for the first time, or if I'm a veteran hiker. We can make some assumptions based on clothing and equipment, but that's all they are, assumptions. Furthermore, no matter how many miles I've walked, I don't know everything.

More than once we've had discussions about somebody doing something questionable or dangerous, maybe LNT violations, or starting a trail late in the day with no visible equipment (no flashlight?) and perhaps with children in the group. If a tragedy occurs, nobody gets scolded for giving unsolicited advice. Rather, the worry is that perhaps we didn't say enough.

Mr. Bumpy
10-22-2015, 09:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxnm6t3QMw

Kookork
10-22-2015, 11:11
So, by this reasoning, when/if I walk by a family in summer type clothing with small kids KNOWING a cold front with associated stormage is coming in the next hour or so, I just keep walking and say nothing?

Granted – checking out the shoes BEFORE saying anything may have been patronizing, but I’m always happy to hear a warning about conditions ahead, regardless of how long I’ve been hiking.


This.
The angler/hiker was not giving advice about something irrelevant or unimportant. He said the shoe might not be the best option in the trail ahead. Especially if someone is hiking with a dog attached to him via a leash and any jerky movement of the dog can potentially lead to an accident on the bolders and rockd especially if the dog seemed not to be an experienced trail trained dog as it seemed the case in their encounter.

vamelungeon
10-22-2015, 11:59
So, by this reasoning, when/if I walk by a family in summer type clothing with small kids KNOWING a cold front with associated stormage is coming in the next hour or so, I just keep walking and say nothing?

Granted – checking out the shoes BEFORE saying anything may have been patronizing, but I’m always happy to hear a warning about conditions ahead, regardless of how long I’ve been hiking.


And I don't necessarily disagree with you, especially about giving weather information. I guess making assumptions about complete strangers and their gear or abilities rubs me the wrong way.

MuddyWaters
10-22-2015, 12:48
Anyone ever wonder why we refer sneakers as Tennis Shoes? Tennis isn't exactly a common sport here in the States, but a lot of people seem to refer to sneakers as Tennis shoes -- I've even done it, but I don't know why...:-?

Started in mid-late 1800 s when first rubber soled shoes were used to play tennis, among other things. They also were known as sneakers because were quiet.

Some are still old enough to remember when the only athletic shoes were rubber toed keds and their copies. It was pretty much this way from 1900 to 1970.

Sarcasm the elf
10-22-2015, 12:55
Started in mid-late 1800 s when first rubber soled shoes were used to play tennis, among other things. They also were known as sneakers because were quiet.

Some are still old enough to remember when the only athletic shoes were rubber toed keds and their copies. It was pretty much this way from 1900 to 1970.

Ah Keds: Kid tested, Grandma Gatewood approved.

booney_1
10-22-2015, 13:06
A couple of years ago we were hiking south towards Jerry's Cabin with a group of scouts in the summer. We all were wearing Trail runners, and we ran into a local guy restocking Flint Mt. Shelter. He was wearing mid-calf high boots. He looked at our sneakers and told us to be careful with sneakers as snakes could get you. We laughed at that (after he left!). Later, just before Jerry's Cabin, there is a pretty big meadow with grass about armpit high. One of the adults almost stepped on a rattler about forearm thick!!!

Sometimes locals might know a thing or two...

Cotton Terry
10-22-2015, 13:21
I think we could all take a lesson from this guy...You're never too old to learn something new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm3JodBR-vs

Sarcasm the elf
10-22-2015, 13:37
I find that the trail attracts many socially awkward folks, after all being alone in the woods is largely an introverts game. Very often when someone comes off as bossy or know-it-all, it's just because they are anxious about approaching people they don't know or lacking the sort of nuisance that you would expect in normal day to day conversations.

Generally if someone gives me advice I assume they have the best of intentions, I thank them for it and move on (even if I chuckle about it a little afterwards, according to many people my trail runners should have gotten me killed years ago :p)

As for giving unsolicited advice; I usually only say something if I think someone is risking their safety, otherwise I'll let them learn for themselves.

I also have a rule that when giving advice I phrase it by telling the person "this is what I do" not "this is what YOU should do."

rickb
10-22-2015, 13:46
I find that the trail attracts many socially awkward folks, after all being alone in the woods is largely an introverts game. Very often when someone comes off as bossy or know-it-all, it's just because they are anxious about approaching people they don't know or lacking the sort of nuisance that you would expect in normal day to day conversations.

Generally if someone gives me advice I assume they have the best of intentions, I thank them for it and move on (even if I chuckle about it a little afterwards, according to many people my trail runners should have gotten me killed years ago :p)

As for giving unsolicited advice; I usually only say something if I think someone is risking their safety, otherwise I'll let them learn for themselves.

I also have a rule that when giving advice I phrase it by telling the person "this is what I do" not "this is what YOU should do."

In this case, I see a difference in the friendly advise given before and after the person sharing it learned the OP had been up this trail several time before. Not a big deal in any event.

My personal dilemma is whether or not to alert hikers coming the other way to something cool -- like a pond moose. For the most part I can't keep my mouth shut, but I also realize coming upon your own find often makes the experience all the better.

Pedaling Fool
10-22-2015, 13:56
I find that the trail attracts many socially awkward folks, after all being alone in the woods is largely an introverts game. Very often when someone comes off as bossy or know-it-all, it's just because they are anxious about approaching people they don't know or lacking the sort of nuisance that you would expect in normal day to day conversations.

Generally if someone gives me advice I assume they have the best of intentions, I thank them for it and move on (even if I chuckle about it a little afterwards, according to many people my trail runners should have gotten me killed years ago :p)

As for giving unsolicited advice; I usually only say something if I think someone is risking their safety, otherwise I'll let them learn for themselves.

I also have a rule that when giving advice I phrase it by telling the person "this is what I do" not "this is what YOU should do."So, do you think you would have developed a relationship with Mary Ellen? Of course that's after she latched on to you...:D

Sarcasm the elf
10-22-2015, 14:04
So, do you think you would have developed a relationship with Mary Ellen? Of course that's after she latched on to you...:D

The operative phrase in my post was "thank them and move on." :rolleyes:

WingedMonkey
10-22-2015, 14:08
My personal dilemma is whether or not to alert hikers coming the other way to something cool --

I was north bound starting the climb up Bear Mountain when a south bound weekender stopped me to talk.

"You can see THE CITY from up there he proudly exclaims.

"What city" I replied.

You'd have thought I had stabbed him from the look on his face.

:p

Rmcpeak
10-22-2015, 14:12
I like to say "Thanks, I'll keep that in mind." And then just keep on hiking. Sometimes people have been right and I think, damn should've listened! HYOH!

Pedaling Fool
10-22-2015, 15:19
The operative phrase in my post was "thank them and move on." :rolleyes:Yeah, like you could out-hike Mary Ellen :D;)

Spacelord
10-22-2015, 16:39
I find that the trail attracts many socially awkward folks, after all being alone in the woods is largely an introverts game. Very often when someone comes off as bossy or know-it-all, it's just because they are anxious about approaching people they don't know or lacking the sort of nuisance that you would expect in normal day to day conversations.

Generally if someone gives me advice I assume they have the best of intentions, I thank them for it and move on (even if I chuckle about it a little afterwards, according to many people my trail runners should have gotten me killed years ago [emoji14])

As for giving unsolicited advice; I usually only say something if I think someone is risking their safety, otherwise I'll let them learn for themselves.

I also have a rule that when giving advice I phrase it by telling the person "this is what I do" not "this is what YOU should do."
No doubt. When you have poor people skills to start, that get compounded by the fact that you've not seen or spoken to another person in three nights. I just listen and move along, most people have good intentions.

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

modiyooch
10-22-2015, 22:12
I learned my lesson regarding hopping rocks at waterfalls wearing sneakers. I'll still wear my sneakers; but I'm staying off the wet rocks. It's possible the fisherman learned the hard way, as well.

Praha4
10-22-2015, 22:37
oh Lone Wolf..

where are you when we need you

daddytwosticks
10-23-2015, 07:12
oh Lone Wolf..

where are you when we need you

"...it's just hoppin"."

Francis Sawyer
10-23-2015, 13:35
What really irks me is people who bring dogs with them everywhere they go.

AO2134
10-23-2015, 13:41
I am a bit of a snob about how much of a bad a hiker I am, which wouldn't be a problem if I was actually a bad a hiker.

RockDoc
10-23-2015, 15:04
Reminds me of a story...

When we hiked Nepal's Annapurna Circuit many years ago we hired a porter (a local farmer) to carry our packs across the highest part of the 5500 m Thorung La pass. He was barefoot, which we thought was unacceptable to go over the steep snow and ice. So in Manang, final village that had a small shop, we bought him a pair of socks and sneakers that we thought would be better than nothing. He was very happy when we gave him the shoes, but to our surprise he carefully strapped them to the back of his load and completed the pass barefoot (carrying three people's loads) without any problems.

Since then I've stopped giving people advice about their hiking footwear.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2015, 15:51
i ran my first 50 mile trail race years ago. i had $40 running shoes, a cotton bandana, hiking socks, polypro shirt, no watch or fancy hydration thingy. i got some funny looks from the "real" athletes. i beat most of them finishing 25th out of 180 runners

FooFooCuddlyPoops
10-23-2015, 16:22
Okay..folks. Irk, not urk. Stop being dicks, it was a typo. As a English major, even I have them. This isn't Facebook. At least I didn't speak with full on caps, and "u's" instead of you.

As far as feeling superior, I wasn't about to walk up to someone wearing hiking boots and tell them, "My tennis shoes can hike the same as your boots!" -_- I just had a realization that maybe my shoes didn't matter too much since the feet inside them were tough as nails. I wouldn't thru-hike in tennis shoes, but I could do day hikes, no problem, as long as the rocks weren't bad.

And don't you guys ever call my dog a little foo foo dog. She is a small dog, and yes, she was scared, but she has been raised around trails. The log bridge was old, rotted, and scared her. A lot of dogs could of gotten scared over the bridge, I was having problems because she was backing up on the leash every time I pulled, and walked towards her. She thought i was trying to force her to walk when I was just trying to pick her up and carry her the rest of the way. A big yellow fishing rod didn't help out her moment of "oh ****." She's less than a year, and is still being introduced to the world around her.

Once again. She isn't a foo foo dog. She is a "rat dog" that conquers mountains save for that one log bridge.

As far as helpful vs Scrutinizing, I did say I wasn't completely upset. His words just rubbed me the wrong way. I was not a dick about it, and ignored his words on the way up. We were extra careful on the two rock sections without a single fall. It was just the way he looked down at our shoes, paused his breath, and his tone of voice that made me a little irritated.

Fisherman/Hiker. He had on a osprey and carried a small tackle box. I believe he was camping out near the water to fish so that would call him a bit of both worlds. ^_^

dudeijuststarted
10-23-2015, 16:40
I found a good trick is to just wear headphones, even if they are turned off. Then you can pretend you didn't hear the person and just keep walking.

Coffee
10-23-2015, 17:25
In general I feel like it is bad form to comment on another hiker's gear choices unless they have asked for an opinion or there is some imminent risk of catastrophe due to the gear choice (which would be very rare). So I don't comment on the gear other people carry. At the same time, if someone makes a comment directed to me, I just have the option of disregarding it. If it is someone going in the opposite direction who you won't see again, that's even less of a reason to care about an unsolicited opinion.

In general most hikers do not seem to comment on gear. The most common comment is something like "nice pack" if you're both wearing the same pack, or "how are the Cascadias treating you"? if they recognize the shoes, etc. Kind of a veiled comment might be "your pack is so small" which depending on the tone could be a criticism or a compliment.

But who really cares?

Mags
10-23-2015, 17:39
I've shared this story before...

Last year I was onthe my Colorado Trail hike just north (trail wise) from where the CT and the CDT split for the last time. The CT heads south and west towards Durango, the CDT heads south towards Wolf Creek Pass.

Anyway, I am hiking up the trail. I see a genteman with thick, heavy leather boots. A HUGE pack (Dana Designs, maybe?). Had the Nalgenes and every other item it seems from the outfitter.

Here I am: Nike sneakers a bit torn, my lightweight all mesh pack. Banged up ski poles. Dirty polyester dress shirt. Almost three weeks beard growth.

I said "Hello'.
He said "Interesting gear you have". (While eyeing me up and down with a *** look on his face)
Me: "Yep. Works for me"
He said: "Well, always more to learn as you backpack more. When you backpack more, perhaps you will have different gear"
Me: "You are right. Always more to learn"
He: "Enjoy your hike. Be careful".
Me: "You too! It is a great day!"

:)

The guy probably thought I was a total moron (Well...he may be right, but not in the context of backpacking. :D). Probably thought I'd died somewhere in the San Juan mountains!


One thing the gentleman hinted at that is absolutely correct: There is ALWAYS more to learn... just probably not in the way he meant. ;)

donthaveoneyet
10-23-2015, 18:02
I try to avoid controversy for the most part, but can't help but relate another experience.

This was about 30 years ago. I was in the Whites, on the AT, headed north, I think near Franconia somewhere (we had started at 112 for a week long hike). I had my girlfriend with me. We took a break and some guy came along southbound. Sat down and pretty much immediately started lecturing me about my boots. I don't mean subtle comments, I mean, "You should not be wearing heavy boots like that." And it wasn't because of some preferred approach to footwear for hiking - his comment was that my heavy soled boots created more "wear and tear on the trail" than softer-soled boots, and that people like me were destroying the trails by not using softer boots.

I was so taken aback by this moron, I didn't even know what to say to him. I had spent much of my (admittedly still young) life hiking in mountains all over the US, and I had never encountered such dickwad, and had never heard such a "theory" about footwear. I thought about it for a couple of minutes, then leaned over toward him and said, "Tell ya what, go f--- yourself, ok?"

I think I was a little bigger than him (I'm not very big). Anyway, he quickly picked himself up and moved on.

I later felt that I should have behaved a little differently. A smile and "thanks, I'll give that some thought", and leave it be, would have been more appropriate. But I was so baffled by the sheer idiocy of this obnoxious little prick, I kind of lost my cool.

As someone commented above, there's a lot of people on the trails who are ... socially maladjusted (my words). It's inevitable, and probably has gotten worse over the years, with greater access and mobility and availability of information. Time for a little note to self - live and let live.

Deadeye
10-23-2015, 18:44
I'm trying to learn to ignore comments about my gear, my speed ("slow down and enjoy yourself"), etc., but I have to admit - unsolicited "advice" irks the heck out of me. It even bugs me when people comment about the "view at the top" that I'll get to soon, as if the view was the only reason to hike. I seem to get grumpier about it as I get older and grumpier, and have to tell myself to chill.

I have no advice to offer to deal with this issue, I can only empathize.
Then I can apologize for my snarky comment about your screen name.

Come to think of it, now that I'm pushing 60, I don't get many comments about my speed anymore.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2015, 19:31
i'm trying to learn to ignore comments about my gear, my speed ("slow down and enjoy yourself"), etc., but i have to admit - unsolicited "advice" irks the heck out of me. It even bugs me when people comment about the "view at the top" that i'll get to soon, as if the view was the only reason to hike. I seem to get grumpier about it as i get older and grumpier, and have to tell myself to chill.

I have no advice to offer to deal with this issue, i can only empathize.
Then i can apologize for my snarky comment about your screen name.

Come to think of it, now that i'm pushing 60, i don't get many comments about my speed anymore.:d.................

Uriah
10-23-2015, 20:17
...there's a lot of people on the trails who are socially maladjusted (my words).

You say that as though it's a bad thing.

Harrison Bergeron
10-24-2015, 19:54
He did a slow, pan, obvious scrutinizing look down to my shoes, "Yeah, but tennis shoes aren't really good grippers when it comes to rocks...".

The only thing worse than hiking in tennis shoes is playing tennis in sneakers! Man, nothing urks me more than a sneaky tennis player!

But the guy had a point. Everyone knows the only correct footwear for rocks is rock shoes!

TD55
10-25-2015, 08:41
I have found that nodding my head with a shoulder shrug and thumps up will suffice as a suitable response to just about anything.

Heliotrope
10-25-2015, 09:26
Reminds me of a story...

When we hiked Nepal's Annapurna Circuit many years ago we hired a porter (a local farmer) to carry our packs across the highest part of the 5500 m Thorung La pass. He was barefoot, which we thought was unacceptable to go over the steep snow and ice. So in Manang, final village that had a small shop, we bought him a pair of socks and sneakers that we thought would be better than nothing. He was very happy when we gave him the shoes, but to our surprise he carefully strapped them to the back of his load and completed the pass barefoot (carrying three people's loads) without any problems.

Since then I've stopped giving people advice about their hiking footwear.

Such a great story. And the fact that the porter accepted your gift graciously. Without the need to boast about how bad azz his feet are. Really speaks volumes regarding this thread topic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jimyjam
10-25-2015, 09:47
My 2 cents worth...I really don't understand where this "self-entitlement" attitude comes from or exactly when it came about, that others so rudely push their opinions onto others without it being solicited. Arrogance is really an ugly character! Thankful my mother raised me better than that and even more thankful I had the ability to listen and learn from her!


Life is full of ups and downs! Hike on!

Coffee
10-25-2015, 11:01
It would be interesting to run a poll asking hikers how often they encountered unsolicited gear (or other) advice on trail, correlated with the miles hiked. I think that truly obnoxious input is pretty rare. Like many other things discussed online, it is a bigger issue online than on the actual trail IMO.

Traveler
10-25-2015, 15:23
It would be interesting to run a poll asking hikers how often they encountered unsolicited gear (or other) advice on trail, correlated with the miles hiked. I think that truly obnoxious input is pretty rare. Like many other things discussed online, it is a bigger issue online than on the actual trail IMO.

I think by and large this is true. I think I have been asked about stuff I have with me or have on more often than people commenting about it. Usually the questions I get are legitimate and sincere and sparks a pretty good conversation.

tflaris
10-25-2015, 19:49
I think we could all take a lesson from this guy...You're never too old to learn something new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm3JodBR-vs

That's pretty neat!


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

Cotton Terry
10-25-2015, 20:17
I think this discussion has been very informative for me. Being a natural 'fixer', I tend to speak up if I can be helpful in any way, whether in a physical way (offering extra water, supplies, Vitamin A, or my battery charger for someone with a dead cell phone) or in a less practical way by offering lessons learned from my albeit limited backpacking experience. I know of many times, personally, when other backpackers have offered suggestions and advice. I've always gratefully absorbed all that was offered and quietly discarded the extra. Certainly, I have never been that obnoxious Mary Ellen, but in the future, I will keep quiet unless specifically asked. Probably the best plan regardless of the circumstance.

That said, I am wondering why we aren't more incensed when someone offers Trail Magic. Who are they to assume a thruhiker is thirsty, hungry or can't walk the three or four miles between trail and town?

tflaris
10-25-2015, 20:26
I always found gems of knowledge in everyone's opinion. No one is smarter than all of us. Knowledge seems to be based a lot on experience and everyone has different experience and therefore draws different conclusion/assumptions.

I'm with Cotton Terry. I fix/build things for a living (electrician) and find myself wanting to be helpful.

Guess I will avoid this behavior in the future.

TF


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

squeezebox
10-25-2015, 20:43
Started in mid-late 1800 s when first rubber soled shoes were used to play tennis, among other things. They also were known as sneakers because were quiet.

Some are still old enough to remember when the only athletic shoes were rubber toed keds and their copies. It was pretty much this way from 1900 to 1970.


Cyclists from the begining had leather shoes with soles as stiff as possible and metal cleats to fit in the pedals.

squeezebox
10-25-2015, 20:58
What really irks me is people who bring dogs with them everywhere they go.

What irks me is people who inflict their dogs on other people and expect everyone else to like it.

kayak karl
10-25-2015, 21:21
What irks me is people who inflict their dogs on other people and expect everyone else to like it. a lot of things irk me about people, but i just keep it to myself and move on.

squeezebox
10-25-2015, 21:53
a lot of things irk me about people, but i just keep it to myself and move on.

What irks me is people who refuse to be irked.

kayak karl
10-25-2015, 22:49
What irks me is people who refuse to be irked.

But that is where you should find yourself. ....grasshopper!

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Another Kevin
10-26-2015, 07:52
I think the only conversation I've had in the last few years about footwear went:

"You're wearing your microspikes?"

"Yeah, there's still some ice over on the north side. The trail up to the summit overlook is clear, but after there it's a little slippery. I just haven't taken them off yet."

Whereupon the guy who asked the question turned to his buddies and said, "I think we have a change of plans here."

No, wait a moment, there was one more recent. A Korean lady hiking with a large group said to me, "Oooh, fancy snowshoes!" (She had noticed that I had the heel lifts up.)

"I'm an old man. I need all the help I can get."

Coffee
10-26-2015, 09:54
I know what I'm going to say the next time I'm annoyed: "Hey, I'm irked by that statement!" I'll probably be left alone after that.

August W.
10-26-2015, 10:40
In the Colorado Rockies this summer a friend and I got caught in a thunderstorm while exploring a couple alpine lakes. With thunder rolling and lightning striking we were scurrying down the trail back to the safety of the forest below, and just as we reach tree-line we meet a solo hiker who asks for directions up to the lakes we just left. My buddy gave the man accurate directions and let him know we would have spent more time up around the lakes if it wasn't for all the lightning. The man thanked my friend for the info and as he starts to walk on up towards the lakes I said "You know at that altitude and exposure you will basically be a human lightning rod?". I usually don't offer unsolicited advice, and I kinda felt like a hiker-snob based on that guy's response because he gave a pissed-off-looking frown and barked back "I have a raincoat!". "Enjoy it" I said as I turned to get on down the mountain. Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

rafe
10-26-2015, 11:26
In the Colorado Rockies this summer a friend and I got caught in a thunderstorm while exploring a couple alpine lakes. With thunder rolling and lightning striking we were scurrying down the trail back to the safety of the forest below, and just as we reach tree-line we meet a solo hiker who asks for directions up to the lakes we just left. My buddy gave the man accurate directions and let him know we would have spent more time up around the lakes if it wasn't for all the lightning. The man thanked my friend for the info and as he starts to walk on up towards the lakes I said "You know at that altitude and exposure you will basically be a human lightning rod?". I usually don't offer unsolicited advice, and I kinda felt like a hiker-snob based on that guy's response because he gave a pissed-off-looking frown and barked back "I have a raincoat!". "Enjoy it" I said as I turned to get on down the mountain. Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

I generally don't offer advice... except maybe in cases where extreme danger might be involved. As in this example.

If folks choose to take offense at that, I don't much care.

Coffee
10-26-2015, 12:21
I've also warned hikers regarding weather and trail issues. In contrast to gear choices, I feel like doing so is a courtesy to other hikers. I always appreciate information on what I can expect down the trail.

Zach ADK
10-26-2015, 12:46
What irks me is people who inflict their dogs on other people and expect everyone else to like it.

Me too. I know it is unAmerican not to be a dog person, but there it is
.

August W.
10-26-2015, 12:47
I generally don't offer advice... except maybe in cases where extreme danger might be involved. As in this example.

If folks choose to take offense at that, I don't much care.

I'm right there with ya. I was surprised by his response and don't know if it was borne of ignorance or smart-assery, but I was basking in the glow of backpacking in one of the most beautiful places on the planet and felt like being helpful. He wasn't dressed for the environment he was in, and was only carrying a camera, raincoat, and whatever may have been in his jean pockets. If he hadn't stopped us for directions I wouldn't have slowed down to offer the warning.

On another occasion at an overlook by a waterfall at the head of a rugged gorge that people routinely get injured and killed in while recreating I was asked by a man who had his wife and 4 kids with him "how to get down to the river at he bottom of the hill?". They were all in loafer type shoes and sandals, better suited for a trip to the mall than an 800-ish foot descent down some of the roughest trails in the southern apps, so I lied, out of kindness, and told them that a permit is required for all trails to the river. I gave them directions to the nearby staffed ranger station so the ranger could give them the information they needed.

Odd Man Out
10-26-2015, 13:31
Last summer I went on a 40 mile 4 day hike with an old friend I hadn't seen in years. He is a retire DNR wildlife biologist and avid hunter. He has spent most of his summers in Isle Royale NP doing moose research. He obviously has spent a lot of time in the woods. But our gear was a case study of old school vs new school. Most of his gear is the stuff he had used his whole life. His tent was a newer REI tent but it took him forever to set up the complex pole system. He had big all leather boots with two layers of thick rag wool socks. It probably took him 10 min just to get his shoes and socks on. He had a 1960s Primus stove. It would take 20 minutes to pour fuel prime assemble stand and boil water. He had an old pump filter that would not work in lake superior the waves would knock his bottles over and they would fill with unpurified water. He had a boat load of gear strapped on the outside of his 70s vintage pack and to open the lid he had to take all the straps off. Putting some of them back on required 4 hands and he couldn't put his pack on unless I held it up for him.

In contrast I could set up my TT Notch in just a couple minutes. Could set up my alcohol stove and boil water in about 5. I could collect a gallon of water from the lake in my nylon water bucket and gravity filter with my sawyer mini to fill all of our warter containers.

I spent most of the trip watching him pack and unpack and mess with gear. We had to stop for rest breaks regularly since his pack was so heavy and it would take at leat a half hour for him to dismantle everything to dig out his snacks or hydration mix that always seemed to be at the bottom of the pack.

He was amazed I could get by for 4 days with a pack that weighed much less than 20 lbs including food and fuel. He asked a lot of questions about my gear. He seemed to be completely unaware of any advancements that had been made since 1970. I would explain how my gear worked and why I selected it, but in doing so, I'm sure I came across sounding like a gear snob. I intentionally tried not to criticize him or his gear but it was painfully obvious to him that his gear was not really working for him and all the effort I had put into my gear selection had really paid off.

So am I a gear snob?

SawnieRobertson
10-26-2015, 13:34
Well, he was trying to be helpful, however "irksome" it was. It is well documented that people tend to slip on the rocks surrounding waterfalls and creeks. . . maybe he really was concerned. Also, I didn't realize until recently how much the "technology" of hiker shoes has advanced in the last few years. I had a pair of hiking boots I loved, and was determined to wear them until they "died of old age." Well, I recently bought a new pair of hiking shoes (could no longer get the style of boots I so favored), and WOW! Those shoes have a specialized rubber sole that "grips" the rocks like you wouldn't believe! I will never, ever hike in "tennis shoe" type shoes again. I love these new shoes, and they are so much safer than what I was hiking in.

Please share the make and model of your new boots.

Thanks.

donthaveoneyet
10-26-2015, 13:58
Last summer I went on a 40 mile 4 day hike with an old friend I hadn't seen in years. He is a retire DNR wildlife biologist and avid hunter. He has spent most of his summers in Isle Royale NP doing moose research. He obviously has spent a lot of time in the woods. But our gear was a case study of old school vs new school. Most of his gear is the stuff he had used his whole life. His tent was a newer REI tent but it took him forever to set up the complex pole system. He had big all leather boots with two layers of thick rag wool socks. It probably took him 10 min just to get his shoes and socks on. He had a 1960s Primus stove. It would take 20 minutes to pour fuel prime assemble stand and boil water. He had an old pump filter that would not work in lake superior the waves would knock his bottles over and they would fill with unpurified water. He had a boat load of gear strapped on the outside of his 70s vintage pack and to open the lid he had to take all the straps off. Putting some of them back on required 4 hands and he couldn't put his pack on unless I held it up for him.

In contrast I could set up my TT Notch in just a couple minutes. Could set up my alcohol stove and boil water in about 5. I could collect a gallon of water from the lake in my nylon water bucket and gravity filter with my sawyer mini to fill all of our warter containers.

I spent most of the trip watching him pack and unpack and mess with gear. We had to stop for rest breaks regularly since his pack was so heavy and it would take at leat a half hour for him to dismantle everything to dig out his snacks or hydration mix that always seemed to be at the bottom of the pack.

He was amazed I could get by for 4 days with a pack that weighed much less than 20 lbs including food and fuel. He asked a lot of questions about my gear. He seemed to be completely unaware of any advancements that had been made since 1970. I would explain how my gear worked and why I selected it, but in doing so, I'm sure I came across sounding like a gear snob. I intentionally tried not to criticize him or his gear but it was painfully obvious to him that his gear was not really working for him and all the effort I had put into my gear selection had really paid off.

So am I a gear snob?


That brought a smile. That was me just a few years ago. Really still is, in many respects. If it weren't for the internet, I'd still be using a Svea 123 and an old external frame pack.

It's been a slow process, coming around to "modern gear." And although I'm not proud of it, part of the reason is probably my old stubbornness in the face of young "gear snobs." Hell, I can do just as well with my tried and true old stuff. But the truth is, I can't. Especially as I get older, and it becomes harder to carry all that weight. It was kind like a weight lifted (no pun intended) when I finally gave up my Old Skool views and surrendered myself to the UL Gods. And bought a scale that measures in grams.

OMO - if you didn't actually openly laugh at the guy, you deserve a medal. But what is said between friends is different from what is said to strangers encountered on the trail.

Traveler
10-26-2015, 18:53
Cyclists from the begining had leather shoes with soles as stiff as possible and metal cleats to fit in the pedals.

......and thats how the name Cletus came to be.....

Offshore
10-27-2015, 08:46
I found a good trick is to just wear headphones, even if they are turned off. Then you can pretend you didn't hear the person and just keep walking.

Also works great in the gym (another ground zero for unsolicited advice)!

Uncle Joe
10-27-2015, 09:17
I offer advise when asked. I'm still relatively new to hiking but did happen upon 3 young fellows who were clearly exhausted from packing what looked like most of their college dorm with them. They said, "We're new to this." One said, "I think my pack is 60 pounds!" I told them they would learn what they need to take next time. There would be things they did use and would leave out. They thanked me and told me they left some rations at the last shelter when they had breakfast. Then smiling said, "We made pancakes!" I figured this was character building for them.

Odd Man Out
10-27-2015, 09:42
That brought a smile. That was me just a few years ago. Really still is, in many respects. If it weren't for the internet, I'd still be using a Svea 123 and an old external frame pack.

It's been a slow process, coming around to "modern gear." And although I'm not proud of it, part of the reason is probably my old stubbornness in the face of young "gear snobs." Hell, I can do just as well with my tried and true old stuff. But the truth is, I can't. Especially as I get older, and it becomes harder to carry all that weight. It was kind like a weight lifted (no pun intended) when I finally gave up my Old Skool views and surrendered myself to the UL Gods. And bought a scale that measures in grams.

OMO - if you didn't actually openly laugh at the guy, you deserve a medal. But what is said between friends is different from what is said to strangers encountered on the trail.

Glad you enjoyed it. I suppose there is a big difference between a discussion with a hiking buddy and unsolicited advice from a stranger. On this particular hike, we were only averaging 10 mpd (required to stay at campgrounds on our permit) so we had plenty of time. In retrospect, if I had been on my own (my original plan), I would have gotten to my campsite by noon and been bored for the rest of the day. Next year maybe I will go on my own to someplace that doesn't have designated campsites on the permit. If a tree falls in the woods and I start to talk to it about gear, does that make me a hiker snob??

Ranger Bell
10-31-2015, 12:30
Started in mid-late 1800 s when first rubber soled shoes were used to play tennis, among other things. They also were known as sneakers because were quiet.

Some are still old enough to remember when the only athletic shoes were rubber toed keds and their copies. It was pretty much this way from 1900 to 1970.

I wore high top Converse All-Stars all the way through school. I got older and did a lot of fishing. Kept a pair of Converse high tops in the back of the truck for wading.

Traveler
11-01-2015, 16:38
PF Flyers..... They had the "Magic Wedge" that made you run faster and jump higher. Anything less is a reflection on social standing.

WILLIAM HAYES
11-03-2015, 19:21
sounds like pretty good advice to me I see nothing snobbish about it

squeezebox
11-03-2015, 23:17
There are things that are flat out wrong. Like hiking barefoot, no shelter, no raingear etc. Mentioning their wrong behavior might just might save the search and rescue folks from a big project, and might save the wrong folks from death.

Mags
11-03-2015, 23:29
There are things that are flat out wrong. Like hiking barefoot,

:)

http://barefoothikers.org/barefoot-sisters.html

squeezebox
11-04-2015, 02:47
Hiking barefoot is asking to ruin your feet, and/or asking for psych meds.

daddytwosticks
11-04-2015, 08:08
Hiking barefoot is asking to ruin your feet, and/or asking for psych meds.

But, but, what about that big hippie dude who used to be on that TV survival show? And what about that other long-hair on TV who runs barefoot up in the Oregon rain forest? :)

rafe
11-04-2015, 09:21
Hiking barefoot is asking to ruin your feet, and/or asking for psych meds.

Might be true in the general case but not all. The Barefoot Sisters did a huge chunk of the trail barefoot, though one of them did have to take time out after making it to Hanover (from Katahdin.) They did finally start to don footwear once the trail was covered in ice and snow.

From personal experience -- I met a fellow hiking barefoot on a trek up and over the Franconia ridge this summer. He was doing fine.

My nephew was born and raised in Hawaii and has amazingly tough feet. He can walk barefoot on terrain that would grind mine to shreds.

Spacelord
11-04-2015, 10:30
Might be true in the general case but not all. The Barefoot Sisters did a huge chunk of the trail barefoot, though one of them did have to take time out after making it to Hanover (from Katahdin.) They did finally start to don footwear once the trail was covered in ice and snow.

From personal experience -- I met a fellow hiking barefoot on a trek up and over the Franconia ridge this summer. He was doing fine.

My nephew was born and raised in Hawaii and has amazingly tough feet. He can walk barefoot on terrain that would grind mine to shreds.
I can't even make it to the mailbox without shoes... I'm a wimp.[emoji20]

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Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 13:51
There are things that are flat out wrong. Like hiking barefoot, no shelter, no raingear etc. Mentioning their wrong behavior might just might save the search and rescue folks from a big project, and might save the wrong folks from death.

Of course, these are the same people who will be offended by the advice and least likely to heed it. Doesn't matter that every year a few people die after falling off of wet rocks at the top of a waterfall wearing sneakers.

Another Kevin
11-04-2015, 14:03
Of course, these are the same people who will be offended by the advice and least likely to heed it. Doesn't matter that every year a few people die after falling off of wet rocks at the top of a waterfall wearing sneakers.

My sneakers have more grip than my boots do.

But I'm also not going to go out on wet rock anywhere near the lip of a waterfall.

squeezebox
11-04-2015, 14:18
But, but, what about that big hippie dude who used to be on that TV survival show? And what about that other long-hair on TV who runs barefoot up in the Oregon rain forest? :)


As I said asking for psych meds.

squeezebox
11-04-2015, 14:21
My sneakers have more grip than my boots do.

But I'm also not going to go out on wet rock anywhere near the lip of a waterfall.

Do you ever consider tieing off with a rope before going near an edge?

squeezebox
11-04-2015, 14:28
I can't even make it to the mailbox without shoes... I'm a wimp.[emoji20]

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk


I have a foot problem, I can't make it across the bedroom without shoes or slippers. I guess I'm triple whimp.

Another Kevin
11-04-2015, 14:43
Do you ever consider tieing off with a rope before going near an edge?

OK, I should have added "without a belay and a helmet" to the earlier statement. :)

"Belay!" "Belay on!" "Climber ready!" "Climb on!" "Climbing!"

squeezebox
11-04-2015, 17:21
OK, I should have added "without a belay and a helmet" to the earlier statement. :)

"Belay!" "Belay on!" "Climber ready!" "Climb on!" "Climbing!"

Really not so stupid in a place where you might get hurt.
But you are a weekender!!

Uriah
11-04-2015, 17:30
Hiking barefoot is asking to ruin your feet, and/or asking for psych meds.

Thankfully the cavemen never heeded such advice, or we'd have never made it to this point.

Slo-go'en
11-04-2015, 17:59
Thankfully the cavemen never heeded such advice, or we'd have never made it to this point.

Well, shoes were likely the first piece of clothing ever invented and that helped to get us to this point :)

shakey_snake
11-04-2015, 18:21
Thankfully the cavemen never heeded such advice, or we'd have never made it to this point.

How many cavemen ever walked from Georgia to Maine in one hiking season? (excluding hikers with The trail name "Caveman")

Uriah
11-04-2015, 20:26
How many cavemen ever walked from Georgia to Maine in one hiking season? (excluding hikers with The trail name "Caveman")

I know of one.

And I suspect cavemen walked farther than today's "hikers" and during every season, long before the land was given boundaries or names or wiped clean of its many perils. But I also suspect we'll never really know. We do know they were adaptable sorts, unlike many of today's reincarnation.

vamelungeon
11-04-2015, 20:42
People all over the world do quite nicely without shoes, and have been since there have been people. I wouldn't wear shoes if I didn't have to wear them. I think shoes cause most foot problems. Our feet are very well designed to perform their designated task unaided. "Shoes" for most of our existence have been mere skin/leather covers without any of the "support" that IMHO weakens our feet.

donthaveoneyet
11-04-2015, 20:57
Frodo didn't wear them.

Spacelord
11-05-2015, 01:13
I know of one.

And I suspect cavemen walked farther than today's "hikers" and during every season, long before the land was given boundaries or names or wiped clean of its many perils. But I also suspect we'll never really know. We do know they were adaptable sorts, unlike many of today's reincarnation.
They only needs their feet to last twenty five years, I'm hoping to at least double that.

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squeezebox
11-05-2015, 12:55
Frodo didn't wear them.

Frodo was a fictional charcater, hiking barefoot safely is also fictional.

donthaveoneyet
11-05-2015, 12:59
Frodo was a fictional charcater, hiking barefoot safely is also fictional.


What?! Who the heck told you Frodo wasn't real!?

Old Hiker
11-05-2015, 17:30
What?! Who the heck told you Frodo wasn't real!?

Here we go......................

squeezebox
11-05-2015, 19:06
Where are we going this time?

rocketsocks
11-05-2015, 19:09
What?! Who the heck told you Frodo wasn't real!?


Here we go......................

....................32548

Heliotrope
11-05-2015, 22:33
What?! Who the heck told you Frodo wasn't real!?

Frodo Lives!


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Traveler
11-06-2015, 17:45
Where are we going this time?

Apparently out of the Shire....

squeezebox
11-06-2015, 22:06
I'm going to get some fake or real fur to velcro or elastic to my boots/ shoes. Then you can call me Frodo. Someone else can make fur top moccisons, not me I have a foot problem. Or glue fur to the top of your crocs.
Funny and stupid.