View Full Version : Quilt temp rating
Hello, I plan on starting my thru hike between feb 15 and march 1. I am getting an enigma quilt (http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/enigma/). I will be doing an 800 down fill but I don't know what temp rating. On one side I'd like to do 0 to be safe but on the other hand I'd like it to last as long as possible before I'd have to switch out for a warmer rated sleeping bag.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Could I go the whole way with a 0 rated quilt or will it just get way too hot in the warmer months?
Thanks!
kayak karl
10-29-2015, 19:16
i used 0 quilts jan and feb. last 2 weeks of feb were the coldest.
Can always get a lighter weight quilt and sleep in all your clothes. As it warms up, ship your clothes home and keep using the warmer weather quilt through the summer.
Can always get a lighter weight quilt and sleep in all your clothes. As it warms up, ship your clothes home and keep using the warmer weather quilt through the summer.
Yeah i think I will go with a 10 degree one... Thanks :)
Just Bill
10-29-2015, 20:36
Do you own any other sleeping gear?
Roughly.. 40*, 20* and 0* end up in most folks collections.
In a quilt- a 20* will give you the best chance of a "one bag" piece and you can always pack on some extra clothes for those few early weeks.
If it's cold enough at night for a zero degree bag- odds are good you're packing enough clothes for 30* and you'll have them anyway.
If you think you'll buy a summer bag later on- get the zero.
kayak karl
10-29-2015, 20:38
Georgia is the dampest state i have ever been in in the winter. its no easy keeping clothes dry when it rains all week and freezes every night. just saying.
Heliotrope
10-29-2015, 22:06
Do you own any other sleeping gear?
Roughly.. 40*, 20* and 0* end up in most folks collections.
In a quilt- a 20* will give you the best chance of a "one bag" piece and you can always pack on some extra clothes for those few early weeks.
If it's cold enough at night for a zero degree bag- odds are good you're packing enough clothes for 30* and you'll have them anyway.
If you think you'll buy a summer bag later on- get the zero.
Agreed.
I have an enigma 20. I recommend the wide version so you have room for clothing under there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Slo-go'en
10-29-2015, 22:11
Call me old fashion, but I'd use a mummy bag that time of year - a good warm one at that.
Call me old fashion, but I'd use a mummy bag that time of year - a good warm one at that.
I'm glad that someone agrees with me.
Or, you're going to need a down helmet and booties. A down jacket is a given. Mass quantities of R-Value between your body and the ground.
The good news? You have about 3 weeks to get the quilt, sleep outdoors over the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays and still have time to change your gear if the quilt doesn't suit you.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
I'd want to know more about where YOU ARE AT in YOUR hiking and in YOUR knowledge of gear and sleep systems BEFORE advising what COULD be right FOR YOU!
I have a pretty good feel for who Just Bill and Kayak Karl are and their typical kits and what would be doable for them based on your anticipated start date and goal of wanting a quilt temp rating that would be usable deep into your hike but that is for JB and KK. They are NOT YOU! YOU are not them! As simple as that sounds we can forget that we are individually NOT all in the same place as backpackers, in our outdoor knowledge, and with our skill sets even when offering advice.
Many things can affect individual sleep warmth, AND well beyond sleep clothing. For starters, here are a few: choice of shelter, bottom insulation, a multitude of sleeping accessories(hats, gloves, heat packs, liners, Heatsheets, secondary and third fabric/film insulation layers, etc), type of sleeper(toss and turner side sleeper, back, stomach, etc), metabolism, food, campsite selection, knowledge of warming techniques, weather, etc.
You share nothing that you know of any of these things. I also see you're profiling as a 17 yr old. I tell you all this because I want you to sleep comfortably NOT make things seem complicated! I tell you this because a sound comfortable night's sleep in the outdoors is significantly important for a optimally healthy emotional, mental, and physical YOU on a LD hike!
I could, and I think you should, easily anticipate you experiencing several nights in the low teens and likely single digits! BUT AMBIENT OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE is NOT the only thing that ultimately affects how cold you will actually feel. In addition to what was already mentioned, Feb and March are wet months in the southern Appalachian Mountains. What if you or your gear(quilt, apparel, etc) get wet? What happens when you experience sleet, snow, high winds, etc? Will you customarily be sleeping in an enclosed tent? hammock? AT lean-to? cowboy camping? What is your propensity for cold? sleeping cold? cold drafts? Are you knowledgeable about techniques, tips, or tricks on how to get warm? What are your experiences sleeping outside in a quilt at or below the quilt's temp rating? by 15-20*? I know I sleep drafty as a side sleeper tossing and turning from side to side which is why I typically throw a liner into the quilt mix when I know a real risk exists of dipping temps sometime up to 15-20* cooler than my quilt temp rating, especially when cowboy camping, and/or opt for the most appropriate quilt/pad attachment systems to avoid drafts and/or opt for an appropriately sized wider quilt.... There is also a fudge factor and learning curve involved with quilt use that not everyone will tell you about. Quilt temp ratings are not governed by independent EN temp ratings as reputable sleeping bags are either.
These things are important! And more so in real life when you're actually outdoors thru-hiking the AT with no room in an AT lean to, the wind is howling at 25+ MPH, you're wet, cold, hungry, damn tired, getting darker colder quickly with the snow/sleet/slush still falling and the temps are predicted to dip into the single digits for the third night in a row.
Yeah, a 20* quilt in the hands of an experienced person with the right kit with a good understanding of the things mentioned should work the best as far as longevity of AT NOBO use with the given scenario. Without that criteria being known perhaps a 0-10* quilt is the safer bet as quilts offer the versatility of easy/easier venting in warmer weather compared to THE NEED for warmth in weather 15+ * colder than the quilt's temp rating. IMO, it's much more critical to sleep warm on a COLD wet windy slushy snowy late winter/early spring night in the mountains than be a little too warm even hot on a summer night when I can push the quilt down over me a bit to vent. Additionally, such a quilt could be used up to June when a simple appropriate temp rated liner could be the go to sleeping bag. If the thru-hike extends into late Sep -Oct bring the quilt back into play.
Are you knowledgeable about techniques, tips, or tricks on how to get warm/sleep warm/sleep warmer? with a marginally appropriate temp rated quilt/sleeping bag?
Call me old fashion, but I'd use a mummy bag that time of year - a good warm one at that.
I tied the quilt thing - no way did I find a weight savings for equal warmth compared to a mummy bag
Just Bill
10-30-2015, 10:01
I agree as well- under 20* and generally the quilt is a loser to a mummy, especially when you add in the needed hats to match the bag.
The advantage of the quilt is better performance in higher than planned temps, there is a learning curve to a quilt though and a certain fiddle factor.
On the lower end of things though a mummy is still king. And other than learning not to breath in the bag- get in and zip it up.
I'd want to know more about where YOU ARE AT in YOUR hiking and in YOUR knowledge of gear and sleep systems BEFORE advising what COULD be right FOR YOU!
I have a pretty good feel for who Just Bill and Kayak Karl are and their typical kits and what would be doable for them based on your anticipated start date and goal of wanting a quilt temp rating that would be usable deep into your hike but that is for JB and KK. They are NOT YOU! YOU are not them! As simple as that sounds we can forget that we are individually NOT all in the same place as backpackers, in our outdoor knowledge, and with our skill sets even when offering advice.
Many things can affect individual sleep warmth, AND well beyond sleep clothing. For starters, here are a few: choice of shelter, bottom insulation, a multitude of sleeping accessories(hats, gloves, heat packs, liners, Heatsheets, secondary and third fabric/film insulation layers, etc), type of sleeper(toss and turner side sleeper, back, stomach, etc), metabolism, food, campsite selection, knowledge of warming techniques, weather, etc.
You share nothing that you know of any of these things. I also see you're profiling as a 17 yr old. I tell you all this because I want you to sleep comfortably NOT make things seem complicated! I tell you this because a sound comfortable night's sleep in the outdoors is significantly important for a optimally healthy emotional, mental, and physical YOU on a LD hike!
I could, and I think you should, easily anticipate you experiencing several nights in the low teens and likely single digits! BUT AMBIENT OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE is NOT the only thing that ultimately affects how cold you will actually feel. In addition to what was already mentioned, Feb and March are wet months in the southern Appalachian Mountains. What if you or your gear(quilt, apparel, etc) get wet? What happens when you experience sleet, snow, high winds, etc? Will you customarily be sleeping in an enclosed tent? hammock? AT lean-to? cowboy camping? What is your propensity for cold? sleeping cold? cold drafts? Are you knowledgeable about techniques, tips, or tricks on how to get warm? What are your experiences sleeping outside in a quilt at or below the quilt's temp rating? by 15-20*? I know I sleep drafty as a side sleeper tossing and turning from side to side which is why I typically throw a liner into the quilt mix when I know a real risk exists of dipping temps sometime up to 15-20* cooler than my quilt temp rating, especially when cowboy camping, and/or opt for the most appropriate quilt/pad attachment systems to avoid drafts and/or opt for an appropriately sized wider quilt.... There is also a fudge factor and learning curve involved with quilt use that not everyone will tell you about. Quilt temp ratings are not governed by independent EN temp ratings as reputable sleeping bags are either.
These things are important! And more so in real life when you're actually outdoors thru-hiking the AT with no room in an AT lean to, the wind is howling at 25+ MPH, you're wet, cold, hungry, damn tired, getting darker colder quickly with the snow/sleet/slush still falling and the temps are predicted to dip into the single digits for the third night in a row.
Yeah, a 20* quilt in the hands of an experienced person with the right kit with a good understanding of the things mentioned should work the best as far as longevity of AT NOBO use with the given scenario. Without that criteria being known perhaps a 0-10* quilt is the safer bet as quilts offer the versatility of easy/easier venting in warmer weather compared to THE NEED for warmth in weather 15+ * colder than the quilt's temp rating. IMO, it's much more critical to sleep warm on a COLD wet windy slushy snowy late winter/early spring night in the mountains than be a little too warm even hot on a summer night when I can push the quilt down over me a bit to vent. Additionally, such a quilt could be used up to June when a simple appropriate temp rated liner could be the go to sleeping bag. If the thru-hike extends into late Sep -Oct bring the quilt back into play.
I'm glad that someone agrees with me.
Or, you're going to need a down helmet and booties. A down jacket is a given. Mass quantities of R-Value between your body and the ground.
The good news? You have about 3 weeks to get the quilt, sleep outdoors over the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays and still have time to change your gear if the quilt doesn't suit you.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Do you own any other sleeping gear?
Roughly.. 40*, 20* and 0* end up in most folks collections.
In a quilt- a 20* will give you the best chance of a "one bag" piece and you can always pack on some extra clothes for those few early weeks.
If it's cold enough at night for a zero degree bag- odds are good you're packing enough clothes for 30* and you'll have them anyway.
If you think you'll buy a summer bag later on- get the zero.
Thanks for all the input guys. I am choosing the quilt because it is on the cheaper end and fits my sleeping style. I will be getting a 0* quilt and then a much cheaper 40 or 50 bag shipped to me later. Thanks!
sethd513
10-30-2015, 13:15
I'm trying out the north face ocelot over our quilts this winter. Don't know how it would work but possibly for you a layering set up then just taking the ocelot and sending the quilt out. But now you are pushing 3lbs and I have no idea how that over bag is as I haven't used it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for all the input guys. I am choosing the quilt because it is on the cheaper end and fits my sleeping style. I will be getting a 0* quilt and then a much cheaper 40 or 50 bag shipped to me later. Thanks!
If you are going that route you might want to keep in mind that with some quilts you can layer them over a sleeping bag having in effect three different temp rated core sleep systems. I did this for awhile in winter camping until I had the do re mi to drop on a $700+ dedicated deep winter high end down mummy sleeping bag.
If you are going that route you might want to keep in mind that with some quilts you can layer them over a sleeping bag having in effect three different temp rated core sleep systems. I did this for awhile in winter camping until I had the do re mi to drop on a $700+ dedicated deep winter high end down mummy sleeping bag.
I would but I can't afford that. Thanks for the idea though.
The 0 and 40 degree quilts can be layered to good advantage. Buy the 40 degree quilt wider and longer than you would use by itself and use it on top of the 0 degree quilt. The use of the over bag was well known before the Internet. It is still a valid cold weather technique.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Casey & Gina
10-30-2015, 19:57
The 0 and 40 degree quilts can be layered to good advantage. Buy the 40 degree quilt wider and longer than you would use by itself and use it on top of the 0 degree quilt. The use of the over bag was well known before the Internet. It is still a valid cold weather technique.
What kind of temperature can that combo keep you comfortable down to?
For every multi-variable question, the answer is always, "It depends."
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Just Bill
10-30-2015, 23:20
Hmmm... now I can't find it. Tim at EE posted a chart in his blog about layering quilts of various temps and the expected results. Maybe somebody else has seen it and can find it.
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/
Or perhaps it's just offline for a bit- Quilts 106 is now shown as coming soon and that looks like where I saw it.
Bottom line- when you approach zero and try to apply the math things get sketchy. Tim lives in Minnesota though and gets lots of winter practice layering quilts so his chart will likely be the best available when it pops up again.
Just Bill
10-30-2015, 23:20
Thanks for all the input guys. I am choosing the quilt because it is on the cheaper end and fits my sleeping style. I will be getting a 0* quilt and then a much cheaper 40 or 50 bag shipped to me later. Thanks!
Make sure you pick up the hood too!
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum/
Here it is. On the page with the quilt layering strap.
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/sub-zero-strap-for-layering-quilts/
Very interesting. But, like all subjective personal gear, individual real world testing required to establish comfortable sleeping temperature. Terrible run on sentence.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Casey & Gina
10-31-2015, 10:39
That chart is simply first quilt rating minus (70˚ minus the second quilt rating). Simple enough to remember. :)
Just Bill
10-31-2015, 12:00
Thanks Wayne!
And Raptelan, that formula makes sense as it's roughly similar to the CLO formula EE seem to use.
I'd add the caution that if one of the quilts is synthetic that all the formulas start to breakdown some at zero.
Make sure you pick up the hood too!
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum/
I did!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk
peterboysen
11-10-2015, 12:03
Bottom line- when you approach zero and try to apply the math things get sketchy. Tim lives in Minnesota though and gets lots of winter practice layering quilts so his chart will likely be the best available when it pops up again.
That's actually me! Tim doesn't love winter camping so much, but I try to get out a couple times in the winters when I can. I've used a 20 and 40 together down to about -19F, but that was really pushing it (supplementing my pad more would have helped a lot too). This was before we made the Hoodlum as well, so I think insulation that actually stayed in place on my head would have given me a little more wiggle room on the temperature.
Sleeping in the clothing you wear throughout the day may not feel warmer, if you sweat in your clothing, also, it gets dirty after awhile so it doesn't insulate well, so yes it is okay if one night or two.
That is my experience.
I would rather have sleeping clothes and a sufficiently warm "sleep system" of quilt, bivy and insulation mat(s).
Just Bill
11-10-2015, 12:26
That's actually me! Tim doesn't love winter camping so much, but I try to get out a couple times in the winters when I can. I've used a 20 and 40 together down to about -19F, but that was really pushing it (supplementing my pad more would have helped a lot too). This was before we made the Hoodlum as well, so I think insulation that actually stayed in place on my head would have given me a little more wiggle room on the temperature.
Hey Peter!
Glad to see you on here (and BPL). Winter in MN is relative, lol.
Chime in more often- nobody wants to hear me yap away ;)
Keep up the good work.