View Full Version : Horses on the trail? I thought this was a footpath
RITBlake
12-06-2005, 10:11
I was under the impression (maybe a false impression) that the entire length of the AT was considered a footpath, and that stock animals, horses, atvs, bikes etc were all banned except in stretches like the towpath heading out/in to Harpers Ferry.
On our thru hike we saw horses on the trail several times, most noteably in the Smokies where we saw several groups of horses. It was interesting to see but dodging the horse droppings all afternoon made for clumsy hiking.
Anyone have the skinny on this?
Lone Wolf
12-06-2005, 10:13
Horses are allowed on the Creeper Trail which is part of the AT for 2 short sections.
Horses are allowed in part of the Smokys Park. In fact some of the shelters have hitching racks and water troughs.
Youngblood
12-06-2005, 10:39
Horses are allowed in part of the Smokys Park. In fact some of the shelters have hitching racks and water troughs.
I remember seeing hitching racks at a few of the AT shelters in the Smokies. Don't know if the AT actually shared trailway with the ones horses are allowed on or if these were at trail intersections.
The Solemates
12-06-2005, 10:50
I remember seeing hitching racks at a few of the AT shelters in the Smokies. Don't know if the AT actually shared trailway with the ones horses are allowed on or if these were at trail intersections.
horses have their own trails in the smokies, that are designated for horse use. the AT should not have horses on it in the smokies. if a ranger would have caught these people, they would have been seriously fined.
On the 2005 Smokies Map, it shows several sections of the AT as open to horse traffic too.
Most notably from where the AT crosses the BMT to Spence Field, then on the AT from Miry Ridge Trail to Welch Ridge Trail (Including Silers Bald Shelter) and then from Pecks Corner all the way to Davenport Gap.
most regular horse-rider users of the smokey mountains trails know their way around, and know what's on/off limits... occassionally though, you get a flatland tourister who gets lost... never had a problem with the local horse people in TN (here in LA it's been a different story), but have occassionally had to redirect a lost horsebound tourist...
Footslogger
12-06-2005, 11:24
horses have their own trails in the smokies, that are designated for horse use. the AT should not have horses on it in the smokies. if a ranger would have caught these people, they would have been seriously fined.
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Sure not the impression I got. During my thru in 2003 I ran (hiked) smack dab into a line of horses approaching Mollies Ridge Shelter. They were a trail maintenance crew. 3 riders, each of whom were leading a pack horse. They tied the horses up to the trees at the edge of the grass and proceded to start a fire and cook dinnner ...and a mighty good dinner it was too (they shared).
'Slogger
The Solemates
12-06-2005, 11:28
On the 2005 Smokies Map, it shows several sections of the AT as open to horse traffic too.
Most notably from where the AT crosses the BMT to Spence Field, then on the AT from Miry Ridge Trail to Welch Ridge Trail (Including Silers Bald Shelter) and then from Pecks Corner all the way to Davenport Gap.
okay, well maybe the days of old are no longer in effect. or maybe im just confusing it with other areas, but doesnt the national scenic trail tag mean "for footpath only"?
Youngblood
12-06-2005, 11:38
okay, well maybe the days of old are no longer in effect. or maybe im just confusing it with other areas, but doesnt the national scenic trail tag mean "for footpath only"?
I saw the same horse path designation on segments of the AT on a much older Smokies map that I keep near my 'puter. If you think about it they pretty much have to use sections of the AT to get from one side of the main ridgeline (the TN/NC border) to the other.
Tha Wookie
12-06-2005, 11:42
I work with Jeff Marion, who did a trail study on the whole smokies unit -over 700 miles of trail.
I've studied this document over and over. Portions of the AT are most certainly open to legal horse use in the Smokies.
And the trail shows it!
Youngblood
12-06-2005, 12:04
... And the trail shows it!
I was wondering about that and the deep ruts in places... but I recall the ruts being very narrow. Do horses stay within those narrow ruts or do the deep narrow ruts have nothing to do with horses?
Footslogger
12-06-2005, 12:07
I was wondering about that and the deep ruts in places... but I recall the ruts being very narrow. Do horses stay within those narrow ruts or do the deep narrow ruts have nothing to do with horses?
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Well ...from my memory the majority of the horse biscuits I tried to avoid were smack dab in the middle of the trail, if that's any indication.
'Slogger
The ruts seemed to have more to do with the heavy rainfall washing out the soil than horses. The worst spots I saw were on the hiker only sections.
Tha Wookie
12-06-2005, 12:21
I was wondering about that and the deep ruts in places... but I recall the ruts being very narrow. Do horses stay within those narrow ruts or do the deep narrow ruts have nothing to do with horses?
Horses tend to follow the exact same lines on a trail. they have great trail memory. Horses will follow other horses down to the shoe-print. The digging action of their four steel shoes distributing upwards of 600 lbs on soft earth has been well documented. I've personally done a study that found horse trails had no significant difference in erosion and rutting impacts than ATV trails, while hiking and bicycling was significantly less (p<.01).
The literature is all there to say that horses can make hiking opportunities unpleasurable, unsafe, and unsustainable. But don't count on them being banned any time soon, and here's why:
The horse riding community is well-funded and very organized. Moreover, they really care about their riding opportunities.
In stark contrast, the hiking community is very dispersed, hardly funded, and in my opinion, largley apathetic to the issues that determine the quality of hiking experiences.
Fortunately, up-and-rising groups like the American Hiking Association are fighting to change that, and for issues that protect hiking opportunities.
okay, well maybe the days of old are no longer in effect. or maybe im just confusing it with other areas, but doesnt the national scenic trail tag mean "for footpath only"?
About 30 miles of AT in the Smokies is open to horses, the entire PCT is open to horses and much (if not all) of the CDT is open to horses along with mountain bikes, motorcycles and ATV's in certain parts.
Snowmobiles don't do any damage to the footbead and we still hate them.
Hikers don't like to share the Trail, because we don't like to share the Trail.
Nothing wrong with that.
Tha Wookie
12-06-2005, 13:30
About 30 miles of AT in the Smokies is open to horses, the entire PCT is open to horses and much (if not all) of the CDT is open to horses along with mountain bikes, motorcycles and ATV's in certain parts.
That's a good point. hiking other trails makes me remember how special the "footpath" designation is.
There is no other trail quite like it.
I have changed my views on horses (and dogs;) ). I've had some less than pleasant experiences concerning horses and their owners but now that I have spent time hiking out west I'd say that is the exception. Because they are so well organized and funded they have a strong voice in protecting the wilderness, not to mention all the trail work they do. Different folks like their animals flame-broiled. My animal of choice is the goat, damn things are destroying the trails! Talk about erosion!, talk about stench!, talk about poop on the trail! and DONT EVEN get me started with the Llamas...
i have to share my local hiking paths with horses (kisatchie national forest). i've noticed that in most cases, all a hoofprint does is make a nice round hole in the ground... on steep grades that would otherwise wash out, this actually serves as a damming effect, causing water that would otherwise run downhill to pool, at least a little... i think more damage is caused by the trash left behind by inconsiderate riders (who can carry larger loads in, like the full blown bbq, with corn cobs, ribs, and styrofoam plates and plasticware i found 5 miles in once...) guess it's like any animal... owner is responsible... that said, i have to be careful where i get my drinking water from. lots of horse muffins wash downhill into the streams... still, i mostly don't mind having them around... the local riders seem a little more prone to alcohol use than those in the smokies, but that may just be an anomaly... i'm also a rider, and most horse poeple i know don't drink while riding... (still, i did have one drunk local deliberately try to run me down on a mule. another reason i carry a hiking staff.)
justusryans
12-06-2005, 13:42
My animal of choice is the goat, damn things are destroying the trails! Talk about erosion!, talk about stench!, talk about poop on the trail! and DONT EVEN get me started with the Llamas...
Back away from the Llamas! Picking on goats is fine though!!:D :D
Pedaling Fool
12-06-2005, 13:47
Horses are allowed in part of the Smokys Park. In fact some of the shelters have hitching racks and water troughs.
I thought those were towel racks and bath tubs?:D
fiddlehead
12-06-2005, 13:56
I say share the trails. I don't even mind the bicyclists on the CDT.
The shepherds in the pyrenees always had wine and cheese, and shared it.
The horse people on the PCT seemed to do most of the trail maintenance.
The Mormon wagon train folks (cdt) made some great chocolate brownies. (and had beautiful women too)
Here we go , Again we're having a thread that turns to hate way too fast.
I hate that word.
funded they have a strong voice in protecting the wilderness, not to mention all the trail work they do. Different folks like their animals flame-broiled.
As with Nean, my view of non-hikers was not as good as it is now in terms of outdoor use.
Then I moved out West. Met many passionate and considerate trail runners, mountain bikers, horsepeople, etc.
Yeah..I don't like wading through hores poop as well. But we (meaning outdoors people) are relatively small in numbers. Over all we want the same thing. Places to appreciate and enjoy the outdoors. We are more effective working as a coalition that fighting amongst our selves. Do I want to see horses/mtn bikers all over the AT? Not at this point. Do I want to restrict them in other places where they already are? No.
the goat
12-06-2005, 14:35
i went to school in williamsburg, va (THE college), running through the colonial section of town, one had to master the art of the equine-doo-doo-two-step. (and no, that's nothing like contra-dancing)
Nightwalker
12-06-2005, 21:31
Back away from the Llamas! Picking on goats is fine though!!:D :D
You think that he has a search every day for someone to say "goat" in a post?
Goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat.
Guess we'll see.
:D