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SkeeterPee
11-06-2015, 00:54
I just finished my first backpacking trip near Duncannon PA. If weather cooperates I am looking to go back the week before thanksgiving and would do 5 days to the west towards Pine Grove Furnace state park. And then do a couple day hikes with the wife to the east. I also have the 2 weeks around Christmas off. I could continue east towards NJ or perhaps go to Virginia/West Virginia border and hike into PA. I probably would do a couple 5 day hikes if weather permits and not hike 2 weeks straight.

What kind of weather should I expect in MD/PA? Generally I don't think it would be too bad, unless the elevation makes a lot of difference. We rarely get snow in December, but the mountains might get some.

I have a 35F bag which I have used at 32 and was comfortable. If I get something like a Thermolite Reactor liner would that be enough protection, or do I need to be rethink these trips or gear?

rafe
11-06-2015, 00:57
Cold rain is typically my greatest concern in this season.

Though here in eastern MA we've had summer-like weather for the last few days.

SkeeterPee
11-06-2015, 01:04
Cold rain is typically my greatest concern in this season.

Though here in eastern MA we've had summer-like weather for the last few days.

Yes, I have a concern there too. I have done some short cool hikes in my frog togs, but I get hot easily which would be bad in an all day rain for 6 hours of hiking. So I look for opportunities to try this as it gets colder here this fall to get more experience trying to stay dry/cool.

4shot
11-06-2015, 08:01
My biggest complaint/issue with winter hiking is the amount of downtime from the early sunset. I live on the eastern edge of the central time zone and it will be dark in the woods by 5 PM. I don't like to night hike/set up in the dark. Plan on bringing a good headlamp and reading material. Also, I can skip a hot breakfast most of the year except winter. Between the late start in the morning due to cooking (and harder to get out of the sleeping bag)and early stop at night, my miles per day drops way down. ymmv.

I still do a winter trip as there are lots of positives..solitude. no heat or bugs, etc.But if you haven't done it, these are points to ponder when planning along with the necessary gear and weather concerns.

rocketsocks
11-06-2015, 08:12
Nothing worse than a 32 1/2 degree rainy day.

4shot
11-06-2015, 08:18
Nothing worse than a 32 1/2 degree rainy day.

this, along with frozen boots the following morning, is what makes getting out of the bag the most difficult task of the day!

Berserker
11-06-2015, 14:03
Yes, I have a concern there too. I have done some short cool hikes in my frog togs, but I get hot easily which would be bad in an all day rain for 6 hours of hiking. So I look for opportunities to try this as it gets colder here this fall to get more experience trying to stay dry/cool.
I think you'll find that you'll be fine in the Frogg Toggs in the low 40s/30s. I typically wear full rain gear (coat and pants) in those conditions without an issue. The important thing is to make sure you wear layers, and strip layers off as you start sweating. The only two times I got into the early stages of hypothermia were when I was walking in cold rain with rain gear on, got to sweating, and then cooled down too quick when I stopped.

Dogwood
11-06-2015, 14:20
You should learn for yourself how to acquire that information by researching monthly historical weather avgs at any of the major weather websites. Make the adjustments you need from that data and then prepare for those conditions. It's been well discussed here on WB several times previously. :)

Just Bill
11-06-2015, 17:18
I would bump your bag up rather than get the liner.

If nothing else... as you learn to work out clothing and other considerations with plunging into cold weather having an extra warm sleeping bag to crawl into if all else fails is a nice safety piece. That will allow you more freedom to experiment with clothing layers without going overboard... if you make a clothing mistake you'll always know that you can pull over and climb in your bag if needed.

And if things go well... you'll have a warm enough bag to camp on a high spot or two and enjoy the views.

Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 20:16
Is a 20 degree bag adequate for late fall, early spring and mild winter section hiking on AT or do we recommend 0 degree?

4shot
11-07-2015, 20:52
Is a 20 degree bag adequate for late fall, early spring and mild winter section hiking on AT or do we recommend 0 degree?


depends on who makes the bag. I have had a Marmot 15 degree bag out in temps approaching 0 and have been fine.Their temp ratings are accurate or even conservative. I have been cold in 40* weather in other brands 32* rated bags.

one other note in regards to hiking this time of year...I did a day hike on on of my favorite local trails. I hike it year round. when the trail is wet/damp it can be very treacherous in regards to footing. My mile per hour was way down today. most trails will be wet during late fall/early winter.

Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 21:03
Any experience with a BA synth 20 degree bag? Or BA in general? Mine is a top bag or whatever -- no insulation on bottom. It has a sleeve for a pad. The pad (air core is rated r 4.2) I've been out in it down to about 30 degrees. I was ok but not exactly toasty. I'm planning a section hike in a couple of weeks and i'm hemming/hawing about bringing a quilt to throw over me inside the 20 degree bag, or getting a liner, etc.... Don't really want to plunk down the bucks for <20 down, etc.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

LIhikers
11-07-2015, 21:29
SkeeterPee
Just as important as your sleeping bag is the pad, or pads you sleep on. You want a high R rating to insulate you from the cold ground. And if your primary pad is an inflatable consider using a closed cell pad with it, just in case it springs a leak and lets you down.

Venchka
11-07-2015, 21:31
Quilt on the outside of your bag. Warm clothes on you, head to toe, inside the bag. A bottle of hot water if needed.
Down is the answer.

Wayne


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4shot
11-07-2015, 22:04
Any experience with a BA synth 20 degree bag? Or BA in general? Mine is a top bag or whatever -- no insulation on bottom. It has a sleeve for a pad. The pad (air core is rated r 4.2) I've been out in it down to about 30 degrees. I was ok but not exactly toasty. I'm planning a section hike in a couple of weeks and i'm hemming/hawing about bringing a quilt to throw over me inside the 20 degree bag, or getting a liner, etc.... Don't really want to plunk down the bucks for <20 down, etc.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

I don't have any experience with BA bags and even if I did, my experience may not match yours. best advice I can give is test your stuff in the back yard. If you get cold you just walk in the house. Find out the limits of your stuff for you. FWIW, I would not carry a bag and a quilt...too much space/bulk/weight. i have carried a liner before...they say it can add another 7-10* of comfot to your set up. again, test it at home before you hit the woods.

Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 22:21
Quilt on the outside of your bag. Warm clothes on you, head to toe, inside the bag. A bottle of hot water if needed.
Down is the answer.

Wayne


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Argh! Hate to do it for item I'll use 2x per year.... But then there is that thru hike I'm eyeing for 2023 (my 50th year)..... Nothing like being warm!


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Venchka
11-07-2015, 22:26
Argh! Hate to do it for item I'll use 2x per year.... But then there is that thru hike I'm eyeing for 2023 (my 50th year)..... Nothing like being warm!


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Sorry, I thought you had a quilt and want to combine it with the BA bag. You said "quit inside the BA bag."
I suggested the quilt on top of the BA bag. That way you minimize compressing the insulation. Warm layers on you and a bottle of hot water if it gets cold.

Wayne


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Studlintsean
11-07-2015, 22:27
I use a 20 deg bag year around but it is a Western Mountaineering so its top of the line. Assuming no major drop in temps, you should survive with the BA bag. My siblings and I (and some friends) do a hike every year the Friday after Thanksgiving and often loan sub optimal 20 and 30 degree bags to those in need and they are always fine. Pack lots of layers and a decent pad and you should be fine.

Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 22:30
Sorry, I thought you had a quilt and want to combine it with the BA bag. You said "quit inside the BA bag."
I suggested the quilt on top of the BA bag. That way you minimize compressing the insulation. Warm layers on you and a bottle of hot water if it gets cold.

Wayne


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Yeah I meant quilt over bag, me inside bag. I have a BA savory 20 and an EE prodigy 40 -- both synth..... I have a Ul down jacket.... I have a hat and mittens and plenty of cap 3 and extra heavy sw socks. .... I won't die, I just want to sleep warmly between bear attacks.


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Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 22:31
This'll be my first post-Halloween backpack.


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Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 22:31
Ever.


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Venchka
11-07-2015, 22:35
You're going to be fine. Heavy carry. But fine.

Wayne


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SkeeterPee
11-07-2015, 22:36
SkeeterPee
Just as important as your sleeping bag is the pad, or pads you sleep on. You want a high R rating to insulate you from the cold ground. And if your primary pad is an inflatable consider using a closed cell pad with it, just in case it springs a leak and lets you down.

I am looking at this too. I have a thermarest trail lite with R3.4. I am looking at adding a CCF too for late December hike such as z-lite with R 2.8. lows should be mid 20's record low is -3F for area.

Does the 2 pads together seem sufficient?

Rmcpeak
11-07-2015, 22:47
I am looking at this too. I have a thermarest trail lite with R3.4. I am looking at adding a CCF too for late December hike such as z-lite with R 2.8. lows should be mid 20's record low is -3F for area.

Does the 2 pads together seem sufficient?

Yeah maybe I splurge on a z-lite sol for under my inflatable and take my Costco down quilt for inside my bag.... Sorry I stole your thread skeet! What bag you taking?


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Venchka
11-07-2015, 23:03
One more time.
Quilt over the sleeping bag.

Wayne


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SkeeterPee
11-07-2015, 23:16
Yeah maybe I splurge on a z-lite sol for under my inflatable and take my Costco down quilt for inside my bag.... Sorry I stole your thread skeet! What bag you taking?


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Good related questions so that's fine.

I have a 35F EMS Velocity that I have had at 32 and was comfortable without a liner. and I have a "15" F liner and at 32 it was so warm I just used the bag a quilt with my feet tucked in and the rest just covering me in the liner. Was also quite comfortable.

But now I am looking at 20F bags and will bring the liner a precaution. My current bag is a 60in shoulder girth which I can barely zip, but can not sleep fully zipped. I am looking for at least a 64in shoulder girth. And I found a REI Radiant long/wide that is 70in shoulder girth. that thing is very comfy. perhaps bigger than I need, but plenty of room. I will see if I can try out at a Marmot Sawtooth long with 65 in girth. Also I tried a North Face 20F Furnace. It was 64in and was better than what I am using but perhaps a bit tight still. I am hoping for some sales before I need this in December.

Malto
11-08-2015, 08:19
agree with the earlier post about the biggest pain being cold rain. i would suggest trying an umbrella. After years of calling some of my fellow hikers umbrella toters or worse, I saw the light on a recent Adirondak trip where we had a couple of days of pissing rain, 4" worth. the key is getting it attached securely to your pack. Here is an action shot.
32564

Rmcpeak
11-08-2015, 08:40
One more time.
Quilt over the sleeping bag.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

yeah I hear you but this Costco quilt is very small so I might try it inside like I would wear a jacket.... If I bring EE quilt that definitely goes outside. there's a backyard trial in my near future,


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JohnHuth
11-08-2015, 11:10
Having a wide "go-to" array for different conditions is helpful. My 'cold end' is a -20 degree down bag, with a North Face Mountain 25 tent. The most annoying thing in those conditions is that the batteries start to fail from the cold - which can be a problem when you have short days. Then, fleece trousers, long johns, tough outer pants, and very thick mittens. Just work up with lighter equipment.

One thing I've noticed when hiking in cold conditions - if you stop to eat lunch, right after lunch, your hand get cold - even numb. I suspect that's because a lot of blood flow is diverted to the stomach. It's a painful warm-up. But, that's in conditions below 20 degrees F.

I agree that some of the most miserable conditions is a windy, rainy day with temps just above freezing - real hypothermia danger there.

PAFranklin
11-08-2015, 12:17
Keep in mind that is bear season. Wear some orange.

Another Kevin
11-09-2015, 18:34
agree with the earlier post about the biggest pain being cold rain. i would suggest trying an umbrella. After years of calling some of my fellow hikers umbrella toters or worse, I saw the light on a recent Adirondak trip where we had a couple of days of pissing rain, 4" worth. the key is getting it attached securely to your pack. Here is an action shot.
32564

I think that in a lot of places I go, the spruce would rip an umbrella to bits. But maybe they're more robust than I think. Certainly you did whatever route you did from Avalanche Pass without mishap.

"Hitch up, Matilda!"

Ctl3230
11-10-2015, 17:57
You should learn for yourself how to acquire that information by researching monthly historical weather avgs at any of the major weather websites. Make the adjustments you need from that data and then prepare for those conditions. It's been well discussed here on WB several times previously. :)

What a douche


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SkeeterPee
11-10-2015, 18:51
What a douche


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I might have thought something along those lines as my first thought, but Dogwoods advice was actually good. I found average highs/lows and record lows for each day and so I have an idea of worst case nighttime lows. and averages. What might have also been nice is what does daytime high look like on a cold day not sure to find low'est high. but I may look some more.

Ctl3230
11-10-2015, 22:46
I don't discount the validity of his input, merely the delivery.


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egilbe
11-11-2015, 11:39
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime" applies here, I think. Delivery be damned.

Traveler
11-12-2015, 07:53
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dogwood http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/115130-late-fall-winter-backpacking/showthread.php?p=2016865#post2016865)
You should learn for yourself how to acquire that information by researching monthly historical weather avgs at any of the major weather websites. Make the adjustments you need from that data and then prepare for those conditions. It's been well discussed here on WB several times previously. :)






What a douche


Is that a reference to the advice or delivery?

If its regarding delivery, function over form is usually the operative equation when looking for advice. Some can be blunt at times, however the smiley should have been the clue the comment was not intended as a slap. If your comment was relative to the delivery, imagine what can be drawn from your response, being the third you've apparently made on the board.

If in response to the advice itself, I would disagree. It was good advice and points out one should be able to do some relatively modest weather history searches for the area they are going into for a better idea of what to expect and includes a method (one of many) that can be used in making this search or looking through the Board archives.

I am not sure what can be argued with that, outside of the fact it may have been blunt.