Cooking in the vestibule?

[squeezebox]

I have seen some photos of burnt tents melted sleeping bags and packs. But I'm going to ask it anyway.
Is there anyway to cook safely in a vestibule?

[Slo-go'en]

A Jetboil might be reasonably risk free since the flame is contained. Just don't spill it. A canister stove would be a lot more risky with it's exposed flame and is too easy to tip over spill the contents of your pot. An alcohol stove or white gas, no way. Don't even think about it.

[Maui Rhino]

I've cooked in my vestibule (using a pocket rocket) only when forced to by rain.... When I do, I'm much more careful about every aspect of cooking. I prep everything before lighting the stove, and arrange things to minimize movement. Once the stove is lit, I keep the flame low and my caution level high.

[rickb]

One of these is useful wherever you cook:

http://www.rei.com/product/814692/msr-universal-fuel-canister-stand?cm_mmc=cse_PLA-_-pla-_-8146920001&mr:trackingCode=CA0C4189-DC2B-E011-8E88-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=t&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=52774011400&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:tid=kwd-126961741000&mr:ploc=9001869&mr:iloc=9052170&mr:store=&mr:filter=126961741000&lsft=cm_mmc:cse_PLA_GOOG

[squeezebox]

One of these is useful wherever you cook:

http://www.rei.com/product/814692/msr-universal-fuel-canister-stand?cm_mmc=cse_PLA-_-pla-_-8146920001&mr:trackingCode=CA0C4189-DC2B-E011-8E88-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=t&mr:adType=plaonline&mr:ad=52774011400&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:tid=kwd-126961741000&mr:ploc=9001869&mr:iloc=9052170&mr:store=&mr:filter=126961741000&lsft=cm_mmc:cse_PLA_GOOG


I actually own one, certainly increases stability, but an oz. here an oz. there argument.
If I were computer savvy I'ld send a photo of the 17 lb CO2 extinguisher I bought at a garage sale eons ago. It's nice to have at home, Luckily I've never used it.

[Feral Bill]

Long ago, people cooked in their tents, especially in severe winter conditions. Mountaineering tents had a cook hole in the floor with a zipper to facilitate this. I've done so myself. None of this makes it a good idea.

[rickb]

I actually own one, certainly increases stability, but an oz. here an oz. there argument.


Then get a tent with out the ****ing heavy vestibule and your problem goes away.

[rocketsocks]

Long ago, people cooked in their tents, especially in severe winter conditions. Mountaineering tents had a cook hole in the floor with a zipper to facilitate this. I've done so myself. None of this makes it a good idea.
Yep, still got my old tent with the cook hole in the floor...I use it to pee in when it's cold out.

[rocketsocks]

Pooped in it once to.

[Odd Man Out]

Yep, still got my old tent with the cook hole in the floor...I use it to pee in when it's cold out.


Pooped in it once to.

TMI?

As for the OP, "Is there anyway to cook safely in a vestibule?"

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule without burning down the tent", then answer is obviously yes. Just be careful you don't spill.

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule so there is no chance of burning down the tent" then the answer is obviously no.

The real question is what level of risk is reasonable and what is the risk? Unfortunately the answer for these questions will be different for every person. If you select a cook system with safety in mind, learn how to use it safely, and have a lot of experience using it safely, use it conditions that minimize potential dangers, and you have plans for surviving without any gear that may be damaged in the event of failure, these are all things that would contribute to decreasing your risk. If that risk gets down to what you consider reasonable (i.e. willing to accept the risk and the potential consequences of a disaster), then that's your call.

[squeezebox]

TMI?

As for the OP, "Is there anyway to cook safely in a vestibule?"

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule without burning down the tent", then answer is obviously yes. Just be careful you don't spill.

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule so there is no chance of burning down the tent" then the answer is obviously no.

The real question is what level of risk is reasonable and what is the risk? Unfortunately the answer for these questions will be different for every person. If you select a cook system with safety in mind, learn how to use it safely, and have a lot of experience using it safely, use it conditions that minimize potential dangers, and you have plans for surviving without any gear that may be damaged in the event of failure, these are all things that would contribute to decreasing your risk. If that risk gets down to what you consider reasonable (i.e. willing to accept the risk and the potential consequences of a disaster), then that's your call.


Good answer . Thank you !

[squeezebox]

Then get a tent with out the ****ing heavy vestibule and your problem goes away.

Heh!! Sorry!! I did not mean to start a hissy fit. HYOH and maybe eat well also.

[squeezebox]

Pooped in it once to.

You are a bad person !!

[squeezebox]

Then get a tent with out the ****ing heavy vestibule and your problem goes away.

I seem to have developed a bit of claustrophobia. A tiny bivy or such would mean trips to the psychatrist and maybe psych meds. I'm not going there.
I'm still working on zipping my regular width bag up all the way.

[Connie]

I had a North Face "Comet" tent with a full-size tent door on both long sides of the rectangular tent floor.

If it had a vestibule and if I had the aluminized asbestos(?) Snow Peak had sold for while, I might consider using a SOTO OD-1R canister stove that reliably does not flare up or sputter, or, my Zelph Starlyte with lid that dies not flare up or spill out, and rain kept me in the tent (can suffocate in snow, knock the snow off the tent) MAYBE then.

I would rather have a tarp rigged high and use that area for a cooking area.

[rocketsocks]

You are a bad person !!
You have know idea. Once I stepped in the cook hole, hiked the tent up around my waist and snuck over to where my buddy's tent was, squat, then left a steamy prestsent in front of his vestibule, rang his zipper then split.

[Another Kevin]

Some of the catalogs even called the half-moon zipper in the floor of a mountaineering tent the 'relief hole' rather than the 'cookhole.' I think the idea that it was for setting up a stove was more from not wanting to mention what it was really for.

[Pedaling Fool]

I have seen some photos of burnt tents melted sleeping bags and packs. But I'm going to ask it anyway.
Is there anyway to cook safely in a vestibule?You should never cook in your vestibule. You can take all the precautions possible, but over time you will get complacent and that's why I'm very careful when I cook in my vestibule.

[egilbe]

You should never cook in your vestibule. You can take all the precautions possible, but over time you will get complacent and that's why I'm very careful when I cook in my vestibule.

You should never? And then you say you do? Lol

[Pedaling Fool]

Do as I say, not as I do:)

[colorado_rob]

In the winter while camping on snow, we cook in our rather large vestibule all the time during bad weather. We do dig a pit down into the snow to lower the floor of the vestibule, which helps keep any flare-ups away from the tent fabric, which is of course the big danger to cooking in a vestibule. Every mountaineer I know does this. It amuses me when people say "never".

[Starchild]

I have used a stove for a very short time to take the chill out of the air inside the tent, it does work great for that, perhaps 30 seconds or so (auto ignition iso-stove). Also once brought it into the privi, placed it on the floor, what a difference it made in winter conditions.




TMI?

As for the OP, "Is there anyway to cook safely in a vestibule?"

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule without burning down the tent", then answer is obviously yes. Just be careful you don't spill.

If you mean "Is it possible to cook in the vestibule so there is no chance of burning down the tent" then the answer is obviously no.


There are cook bags which use a chemical reaction instead of a open flame to cook food, really no risk of setting the tent a-blaze. So it is possible to safely cook inside, depending on the method.

[ChrisJackson]

You should never cook in your vestibule. You can take all the precautions possible, but over time you will get complacent and that's why I'm very careful when I cook in my vestibule.

+1 or more!

[squeezebox]

You should never cook in your vestibule. You can take all the precautions possible, but over time you will get complacent and that's why I'm very careful when I cook in my vestibule.
Funny you say to never cook in the vestibule , but then talk about how careful you are about it. Not calling you out or anything.

[squeezebox]

I will either suck it up and sit a few feet away from my tent in my rain wear etc, Soak the stuff for a 1/2 hour and eat it cold, or maybe dry.
During Nursing school I spent a few days in the ICU burn unit. I'm not going there either.

[Sarcasm the elf]

A related question:

I have heard claims that silnylon is more flammable than the more traditional nylon tent materials. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? I burned more than a few holes in tents back during the '90's mostly from campfire ambers, but those tents were made out of whatever nylon Eureka and all the other companies made back then and they self extinguished. Would a silnylon tent do the same, or is it more likely to go up in flames?

[Connie]

Brawney had a YouTube video of a silnylon tent going up in flames: it went up fast.

It is better to avoid pitch pine or high pitch wood, because of sparks snd burning embers.

I avoid all burning bits of nylon, of my clothing or tent or tarp: it adheres while it burns your flesh.

Nasty business!

The areas of the country that only have pitch pine or high pitch wood, hikers, campers, canoeists, outdoorsmen and women prefer canvas clothing and gear: canvas is slow to burn and it does not adhere to burning flesh like nylon and many synthetics like plastic and mylar.. all that.

Now that camping stoves are so available, even small portable camping stoves, many outdoors people today do not know this stuff.

[Oslohiker]

Is it safe? I would say it is 99.99% safe if you know what you are doing, and it is kind of dangerous if you don't. What follows is my take on it. Do it on your own risk.

Here in Norway we have a lot of weather, and therefor we cook inside the tent all the time. We also heat up the tent and dry out stuff with the burner.

I have a link on a Bachelor thesis study made on exactly this issue. But it is in Norwegian, and I am not going to translate is all.

http://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/149739/1/Bachelor2010_bruk%20av%20brenner%20i%20telt.pdf

But worth noticing are:

Hilleberg says that they haven't experienced one accident during their 40 years of operation, with their tents. Most tent makers advise against it in fear of lawsuits.

But MSR and Primus advice against it, because of danger of carbon monoxide and the fire hazard.

But if you have enough air flow the monoxide problem is low. Sil nylon burns relatively slow. If you have a big knife by your side, you should be able to get out. But if you fall asleep you have a problem, and carbon monoxide can knock you out (and also in the end, kill you).

IMPORTANT: Boiling up water will hugely increase the amount of carbon monoxide production compared to just heating up the tent. You therefor need more venting.

My experience is that there are huge differences between tent makers on the ventilation issue. This is a huge reason why I exclusively use Hilleberg tents.

The risk of setting the tent on fire is relatively low, as long as you have at least 20 cm between the flame and the fabric (but you obviously make the distance as big as possible). The tent makers don't use fire retardants because of the weight penalty.

Personally, I would never use a would an alcohol stove inside a tent, because it is to easy to spill all the fuel at once. Using a canister will just apply to warmer temperatures (around above freezing), and therefor venting should not be a problem. I.e. leaving a door open. In the winter time we almost exclusively use white gas in Norway, because it burns cleaner than kerosine. Never use petrol from a gas station, you will encounter serious liver damage.

On the other hand, white gas is very explosive. It pays of being paranoid about the seals on the stove.

When accidents are often happening is when you fire the stove up. With a burner it is often recommended to somehow slowly drag it inside the tent. I have never in my lifetime seen anyone actually do this. Everybody here fires it up inside the tent. But there is a point to this; you have to get to know the stove before you use it inside a tent. If you don't, you can risk having a very high (and yellow) flame when firing it up. And it will certainly hit the fabric. In Norway we call it (loosely) "the military reserve flame" (it sounds funny in Norwegian. I promise). Getting to know your stove will get you out of trouble, and you will know how to adjust it, and understand the routines of firing it up. It's like getting familiar with a new pet dog. It takes time, and they all have their own personality.

Getting sleepy is a huge challenge to avoid. When you have been out walking/skiing for a day, and after you have fixed everything, and then stare into the flame, you can easily get very sleepy. This is dangerous, and by still using the burner to heat up the tent after you have ate dosen't make things better. The carbon monoxide production does not help either. I have no solution on this, other than having an extreme focus on this, and don't get to warm. But on the other hand, reading a book by the stove after long day out, may very well be the definition of life. I know people that use a pocket carbon monoxide sensor. But, I have never used it. It is probably a wise thing to bring along. Just don't depend to much on it.

Bring a big knife, so you can use it to cut yourself out of the tent, if necessary. It is important that the blade is not covered up, so you don't have to use time to uncover it. In the military we used to stick the knife in to the snow/ground next to the burner, but this will just dull the blade.

For winter use, you should bring a board to put the burner on, so it don't sink into the ground/snow. I got one in carbon fiber, but most have an acrylic sheet, or in have one made out of wood. This double as a cutting board. Some people (like me) also have glued a sitting pad on one side, and have that side down when cocking, and obviously up when sitting on it. It ads stability on snow. In winter time you should also take advantage of the snow, by making an inside kitchen. Find instructions elsewhere.

For me, using a stove inside a tent is second natur, and I have done this since childhood. It was also a part of being in the military here. If you have not done this before, and are a city slicker, show huge respect. Look at it as driving a car, and never have done it before. But it is easy when you have the experience, but you should still show respect for what you are doing.

[Oslohiker]

A related question:

I have heard claims that silnylon is more flammable than the more traditional nylon tent materials. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? I burned more than a few holes in tents back during the '90's mostly from campfire ambers, but those tents were made out of whatever nylon Eureka and all the other companies made back then and they self extinguished. Would a silnylon tent do the same, or is it more likely to go up in flames?

The answer to this is that there are huge differences in sil nylon quality. The worst burn kind of fast. On the best you easily put out a fire. Again, Hilleberg has the best product. You get what you pay for.

[lonehiker]

It isn't the ideal option, but I have cooked under my awning/vestibule in the past. And I am quite certain that I will in the future.

[Oslohiker]

Some more:

Only use a tent with a vestibule, and of course, use the vestibule for the stove. Have all your stuff away from the stove. Don't be inside a sleeping bag (I don't always follow this myself). Get your sleeping bag away from the stove. Some how it has its way to get close to the stove. If possible, have water or snow handy in case of fire.

I this helped to answer your question.

[earlyriser26]

I cook in my tent vestibule in bad weather all the time. I use a MSR pocket rocket. My stove is about 2 feet from the vestibule wall on the bare ground. This what a vestibule is for. Some of best memories are of making soup an a cold rainy day in my vestibule.

[Oslohiker]

My gut feeling is that the risk you are taking (if you know what you are doing) is between being a passenger on an airplane and driving a car. It is very far from DUI, texting while driving, and eating processed meat. You are not crazy if you do it, just get some knowledge and understanding.

I hope this helped to answer your question.

[norts]

Nearly always have breakfast in bed so I use my stove in the vestibule. On a nice day the door is open on a rainy day it' s closed and I have to be a bit more careful. No fluid ever in the tent . I lean out into the vestibule to drink my coffee.
Remember not all vestibules are equal so it may depend on you tent if you can get enough separation from flammable material. I have cooked in Tarptent Moment DW, Hilleberg Akto, Macpac Microlight and Wilderness Equipment 1st Arrow.
Taz

[SkeeterPee]

Newbie, but doesn't cooking put food odors inside your tent which is one of the things they say not to do if there are potential for bears. I read elsewhere to cook/eat away from your tent. Are people not concerned about the food odor?

[squeezebox]

Does farting in your tent count as food odor?

[Pedaling Fool]

Newbie, but doesn't cooking put food odors inside your tent which is one of the things they say not to do if there are potential for bears. I read elsewhere to cook/eat away from your tent. Are people not concerned about the food odor?They also smell you in there and they don't want to have anything to do with tangling with a human. However, if the bear has a predilection for being a dangerous bear than it doesn't matter, he's coming in....I keep my food bags in my tent with me at night.

[Connie]

I am in grizzley bear country, where food odor is a factor.

In grizzley bear country, it is better to prepare and consume food away from your sleeping area.

Many people, who are experienced, prepare a hot meal in the afternoon.

I "cold camp" people here call "stoveless" camping. I eat food away from my sleeping area, this is how I happened to mention pitching a tarp high separate from the sleeping area specifically for food preparation. If I am above treeline on snow or not, I will keep a water bottle and a Snickers bar with me, in the event I start to get cold because consumming a little food and a little water kicks-in metabolism to help warm up. Otherwise, no food or food odors get near "my camp".

I think the AT has black bears, only. I do not know if odor is a factor for black bear aggression.

I know more than a few people hang their food, on the AT.

[Pedaling Fool]

I think the AT has black bears, only. I do not know if odor is a factor for black bear aggression.

I know more than a few people hang their food, on the AT.Yes, only black bears on the AT. Odor obviously attracts b. bears, but doesn't make them aggressive. Look at all the shelters on the AT, every night you see every one hang their food bags from the anti-mouse lines, because the bulk of shelters don't have bear cables. These shelters have people cooking all the time and the bears can smell this, yet it's very, very rare for anyone to lose a food bag hanging in the shelter.

Far more people lose their food bags that were hanging from trees.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Does farting in your tent count as food odor?

Depends on how you look at it.


32586

[Lyle]

A related question:

I have heard claims that silnylon is more flammable than the more traditional nylon tent materials. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? I burned more than a few holes in tents back during the '90's mostly from campfire ambers, but those tents were made out of whatever nylon Eureka and all the other companies made back then and they self extinguished. Would a silnylon tent do the same, or is it more likely to go up in flames?

My understanding was that the old style coated nylon tents were impregnated with a fire retardant which greatly slowed the burning process. They would still melt if in contact with heat or flame, but would not catch fire and burn without an outside flame source. Hence the melted holes we all had, but few flaming tents. The manufacturers were required to make their tents fire retardant by big bad government.

Today's more modern fabrics cannot be impregnated with fire retardant and silicone both, so the retardant is left out. Government cannot require what is not possible. Definite drawback to silnylon, and one that is not advertised much. I used to occasionally cook or warm my coated nylon tents with a stove, being VERY careful. Since I've changed fabrics, I no longer bring the stove under my tarp.

[Traveler]

It probably all comes down to how closely you can pay attention to a stove when lit (or cooling off) inside or under tent components. Usually I don't pay a lot of attention to the cooking process when out in the open and rarely, if ever, does anything happen. However, when I am hyperaware of where I am and the caution that needs to be used, thats when something stupid seems to happen. A drawstring on a garment snags the stove and pulls it over, an errant dog arrives and gives the place a shove, a gust of wind that manages to grab a bit of the cook pot, or bigfoot shows up and I knock over the stove as I dive for the camera. Which is why I try not to ever be near the tent unless its absolutely necessary given it seems the more careful I am, the more determined Murphy tends to be.