View Full Version : The ATC has gone mad
Starchild
11-12-2015, 19:04
Take that BSP
Take that BSP
What does this have to do with BSP?
Starchild
11-12-2015, 19:19
What does this have to do with BSP?
Where have you been? BSP does not like the AT thru hike. They state it consumes a disproportional amount of their very limited resources. They have sent a letter to ATC stating such.
As such it would seem to be against BSP wishes to promoting the thru hike via this bobblehead. But the ATC seems determined to allow people access to the trail.
Lone Wolf
11-12-2015, 19:33
Really, they have.
32608
it's about the $$$
Blasphemy! What next, red cups at Starbucks?
WingedMonkey
11-12-2015, 20:13
Where have you been? BSP does not like the AT thru hike. They state it consumes a disproportional amount of their very limited resources. They have sent a letter to ATC stating such.
As such it would seem to be against BSP wishes to promoting the thru hike via this bobblehead. But the ATC seems determined to allow people access to the trail.
What does Bill Bryson have to do with thru-hiking?
Blasphemy! What next, red cups at Starbucks?
How much better it would have been if they featured a DVD like this one along side all that AWITW mush:
http://thelongstarttothejourney.com
A big part of the ATCs mission is education and inspiration-- and they really missed an opportunity this time around.
Starchild
11-12-2015, 20:24
What does Bill Bryson have to do with thru-hiking?
What does Jesus Christ have to do with Christianity?
WingedMonkey
11-12-2015, 20:26
What does Jesus Christ have to do with Christianity?
Jesus (according to legend) finished his mission.
Bryson didn't.
Starchild
11-12-2015, 20:43
Jesus (according to legend) finished his mission.
Bryson didn't.
Yes OK I admit, much more like what does the Paul have to do with Christianity would be more accurate, but the point remains, as does Paul's churches.
Rick -- if Chris' movie isn't being sold at the ATC store, he's missing a big opportunity. I mean, why isn't it? That would be a mystery. On the other hand it's only been available in DVD for a couple of months now.
I know ALDHA featured Chris' movie more than a year ago, maybe it's time ATC did the same. Or is that over-exposure?
And some people say we have no sense of humor...
ATC did not miss the boat on education with the movie. ATC significantly expanded its education efforts in advance of the movie. We formed our A Walk in the Woods Mitigation Task Force last fall to develop strategies to manage increased use. Some of the initiatives were education-related, including:
Becoming certified by Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics to provide Master Educator courses
Teaching Leave No Trace master educator courses
Funding, supporting, and promoting a new series of Leave No Trace videos (phenomenal volunteer Tom Banks gets credit for being the driving force behind them)
Expanding the number of ridgerunners, especially in Georgia (more next year)
Developing a thru-hiker workshop accreditation program (still underway)
Depending on how you define education, you could also include our efforts to educate prospective thru-hikers about alternative thru-hike itineraries that help minimize impacts by dispersing use. Our voluntary thru-hiker registration promoted Leave No Trace.
Other initiatives focused on analyzing camping impacts in Georgia and building more campsites.
Chris "Frost" Gallaway's video is available from ATC in DVD and Blu-Ray format at https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=825&compid=1.
Slo-go'en
11-12-2015, 21:47
I guess some one needs to hang out on Springer Mountain this coming spring and do a one question survey : "Did the Walk in the woods movie inspire you to hike the AT?" Only then would we know what, if any, impact the movie had.
Chris "Frost" Gallaway's video is available from ATC in DVD and Blu-Ray format at https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=825&compid=1.
Absolutely correct.
It can be found on page 7 of the 16 page catalog, along with 5 other DVDs about thru hiking.
Those who decide to spend money on Frost's account will find -- in my opinion -- a joyous account of what the AT has to offer.
To my way of thinking his work is the kind of story that the ATC should feature --and even promote -- to its membership, and in their catalog in particular.
It tells the story those of us who love the trail know well, and want to share with others.
The sad sad thing is that I would wager a weeks salary that most everyone at the ATC would agree with that-- and yet, it is Byson's work that is featured on the cover.
I think there should be a Lone Wolf bobblehead, and a Baltimore Jack bobblehead.
jacob_springsteen
11-12-2015, 22:18
I think there should be a Lone Wolf bobblehead, and a Baltimore Jack bobblehead.
I make a motion for a Benton MacKye bobblehead.
SWODaddy
11-12-2015, 22:25
I guess some one needs to hang out on Springer Mountain this coming spring and do a one question survey : "Did the Walk in the woods movie inspire you to hike the AT?" Only then would we know what, if any, impact the movie had.
I'm guessing it wasn't very much. The movie was terrible and most of the folks who I saw in the theater looked like their cars were parked in handicap spots.
Spacelord
11-13-2015, 01:10
No doubt, at the theatre I was at they were mall walkers not long distance hikers
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slbirdnerd
11-13-2015, 11:51
No doubt, at the theatre I was at they were mall walkers not long distance hikers
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Me too! There was no one in the half full theater who was going to be embarking on any trail. Kid you not, there were walkers and oxygen tanks. Outside of my son, I was by decades the youngest person in the place. That's Redford's audience--not able bodied adventurers. The book inspired people (for reasons left to another conversation), the movie, imho, not so much.
As for the bobblehead, I, too, groaned when I pulled that outta the mailbox yesterday. However, the ATC is looking for supporters with money, not hikers. Betting all those seniors in the theater have money...
QHShowoman
11-13-2015, 12:05
Absolutely correct.
It can be found on page 7 of the 16 page catalog, along with 5 other DVDs about thru hiking.
Those who decide to spend money on Frost's account will find -- in my opinion -- a joyous account of what the AT has to offer.
To my way of thinking his work is the kind of story that the ATC should feature --and even promote -- to its membership, and in their catalog in particular.
It tells the story those of us who love the trail know well, and want to share with others.
The sad sad thing is that I would wager a weeks salary that most everyone at the ATC would agree with that-- and yet, it is Byson's work that is featured on the cover.
Each year, ATC hosts a series of membership events at several locations across the nation that usually features a full-length documentary about the AT, not unlike "A Long Start to the Journey." This past year, "A Walk in the Woods" was given that spot instead of the usual documentary, and given the notoriety of the book and the celebrity status of its cast, it's easy to understand why.
You may not like the book, the film, the man, the way he (didn't) hike the AT, etc., but it was based on an popular book and is the only major motion picture that I can think of that featured the AT so prominently...and if there's any chance that it might help draw more potential supporters to the ATC, then it would be stupid NOT to try and take advantage of it.
Each year, ATC hosts a series of membership events at several locations across the nation that usually features a full-length documentary about the AT, not unlike "A Long Start to the Journey." This past year, "A Walk in the Woods" was given that spot instead of the usual documentary, and given the notoriety of the book and the celebrity status of its cast, it's easy to understand why.
You may not like the book, the film, the man, the way he (didn't) hike the AT, etc., but it was based on an popular book and is the only major motion picture that I can think of that featured the AT so prominently...and if there's any chance that it might help draw more potential supporters to the ATC, then it would be stupid NOT to try and take advantage of it.
Please take note that my comments were rather specific, and had to do with their most recent 16 page catalog.
While the catalog may have a wider distribution, I believe it is primarily sent to members in a mass mailing. I could be wrong about that-- I don't know. I did notice that the pricing is all at the member discounted rate.
In that context, I think the ATC failed.
They elected to promote an already well-know movie that hardly reflected the real spirit of the AT over several that capture the magic beautifully.
They may sell a bit more to its members as a result, but the AT community is poorer for it.
wider distribution, it
RedwoodRoots
11-13-2015, 14:12
I saw it... well I saw the first 40 or so mins of it and then left. It was really really dull.
The Cleaner
11-13-2015, 18:20
32613Trash just cleaned up from Jerry's Cabin shelter,26 miles north of Hot Springs NC.The trail register there had many SOBO notes.Not all of this mess was left by thru hikers but it's more than I have found in recent years.Next year's NOBO's will once again find full shelters and litter that overwhelms some trail volunteers...
32613Not all of this mess was left by thru hikers but it's more than I have found in recent years.
Sorry to see the mess.
This would be the first time I've heard of AT thru-hikers carrying Tupperware containers and aerosol cans.
Southbounders are a hearty group -- possibly southbounders can heft that kind of weight in their backpack.
Datto
Why demonize Bryson? Because he didn't hike the entire AT? Whatever happened to HYOH that is so prevalent on this site? He is a well respected author and friend of the AT. But I don't understand why ATC is selling a bobblehead of him. I never would buy one of him, MacKaye, Baltimore Jack, or Lone Wolf.
Lone Wolf
11-13-2015, 23:07
Why demonize Bryson? Because he didn't hike the entire AT? Whatever happened to HYOH that is so prevalent on this site? He is a well respected author and friend of the AT. But I don't understand why ATC is selling a bobblehead of him. I never would buy one of him, MacKaye, Baltimore Jack, or Lone Wolf.
bobbleheads are demeaning. the ATC effed up on this.. pathetic
rocketsocks
11-13-2015, 23:29
I'd rather have a bobblehead Katz.
I think there should be a Lone Wolf bobblehead, and a Baltimore Jack bobblehead.
How about Warren Doyle and Myron Avery too. :)
And some people say we have no sense of humor...
ATC did not miss the boat on education with the movie. ATC significantly expanded its education efforts in advance of the movie. We formed our A Walk in the Woods Mitigation Task Force last fall to develop strategies to manage increased use. Some of the initiatives were education-related, including:
Becoming certified by Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics to provide Master Educator courses
Teaching Leave No Trace master educator courses
Funding, supporting, and promoting a new series of Leave No Trace videos (phenomenal volunteer Tom Banks gets credit for being the driving force behind them)
Expanding the number of ridgerunners, especially in Georgia (more next year)
Developing a thru-hiker workshop accreditation program (still underway)
Depending on how you define education, you could also include our efforts to educate prospective thru-hikers about alternative thru-hike itineraries that help minimize impacts by dispersing use. Our voluntary thru-hiker registration promoted Leave No Trace.
Other initiatives focused on analyzing camping impacts in Georgia and building more campsites.
Chris "Frost" Gallaway's video is available from ATC in DVD and Blu-Ray format at https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=825&compid=1.
Laurie,
For what it is worth, I thought the movie was a terrible disappointment. But I believe the ATC did a good job of trying to minimize the negative and maximize the positive out of the situation.
Thanks again for all that you do!
Pedaling Fool
11-14-2015, 08:32
32613Trash just cleaned up from Jerry's Cabin shelter,26 miles north of Hot Springs NC.The trail register there had many SOBO notes.Not all of this mess was left by thru hikers but it's more than I have found in recent years.Next year's NOBO's will once again find full shelters and litter that overwhelms some trail volunteers...
That's sad, I just don't get people that leave their crap, why they don't feel a responsibility to pack it out....
I also don't get the bobblehead thing, I got no words for that....boggles the mind. Who would want a bobblehead of Bryson :confused: And I'm not anti-Bryson; I think he's a very talented writer...I just don't get it, both from a humor point, but also from a $$$ angle. I'm sure it was done for $$$, but I don't see that panning out.
.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2015, 08:40
is he aware of this? does he get a cut of the $$?
Tuckahoe
11-14-2015, 08:48
Wow, whiny a$$ed hikers getting their panties twisted over a bobblehead. First world problems and all that...
kayak karl
11-14-2015, 08:52
I also don't get the bobblehead thing, I got no words for that....boggles the mind. Who would want a bobblehead of Bryson :confused: And I'm not anti-Bryson; I think he's a very talented writer...I just don't get it, both from a humor point, but also from a $$$ angle. I'm sure it was done for $$$, but I don't see that panning out.
.
But the bobble head just got a tread started here and other places and is drawing people to their site. even if they don't sell one it was worth the free advertising.
Pedaling Fool
11-14-2015, 08:56
But the bobble head just got a tread started here and other places and is drawing people to their site. even if they don't sell one it was worth the free advertising.That makes me wonder:-?....how much did they spend on these bobbleheads?
kayak karl
11-14-2015, 08:58
That makes me wonder:-?....how much did they spend on these bobbleheads? who says they own them? just have shipped from different supplier when ordered. ;)
BirdBrain
11-14-2015, 09:30
Man, people get worked up over the craziest things. No one has to buy them. The ATC certainly did not make them. They are likely a vendor item. The vendor is likely taking a greater risk. I find the first comment the most revealing. I have never seen a bunch of people get so worked up over optional activities. Don't buy the bobbleheads and don't go to despised locations. I don't like Pepsi and Chevy. Easy solution. I don't buy them. Get a grip folks.
4eyedbuzzard
11-14-2015, 09:33
Man, people get worked up over the craziest things. No one has to buy them. ... Easy solution. I don't buy them. Get a grip folks.Man, thank goodness the ATC isn't selling plain red cups this holiday season . . . :rolleyes: :D
Man, people get worked up over the craziest things. No one has to buy them. The ATC certainly did not make them. They are likely a vendor item. The vendor is likely taking a greater risk. I find the first comment the most revealing. I have never seen a bunch of people get so worked up over optional activities. Don't buy the bobbleheads and don't go to despised locations. I don't like Pepsi and Chevy. Easy solution. I don't buy them. Get a grip folks.
I did hold my tounge when the ATC sent me a mini movie poster. :)
32613Trash just cleaned up from Jerry's Cabin shelter,26 miles north of Hot Springs NC.The trail register there had many SOBO notes.Not all of this mess was left by thru hikers but it's more than I have found in recent years.Next year's NOBO's will once again find full shelters and litter that overwhelms some trail volunteers...
Shelters are mess magnets, litter magnets, themselves litter (but never mind that). I've witnessed disheartening scene at so many of them.
Shelters are mess magnets, litter magnets, themselves litter (but never mind that). I've witnessed disheartening scene at so many of them.
And in the next few years I imagine we'll get to see some Bill Bryson bobbly-head dolls at each one!
BirdBrain
11-14-2015, 14:55
Man, thank goodness the ATC isn't selling plain red cups this holiday season . . . :rolleyes: :D
Help me out with the red cup thing. I have seen them mentioned with something to do with Starbucks. What is the deal with them? What is everyone teasing about with them? I don't go to Starbucks enough to get the joke.
4eyedbuzzard
11-14-2015, 15:36
Help me out with the red cup thing. I have seen them mentioned with something to do with Starbucks. What is the deal with them? What is everyone teasing about with them? I don't go to Starbucks enough to get the joke.I pm'ed you to avoid thread drift - and furthering absurd controversies.
WingedMonkey
11-14-2015, 16:06
I pm'ed you to avoid thread drift - and furthering absurd controversies.
That won't stop 'em.
I pm'ed you to avoid thread drift - and furthering absurd controversies.
The decision to feature a Bill Bryson bobble head doll AND his books AND his DVDs on the cover of the ATCs catalogue deserves to be mocked.
Is is a big deal in the context of all the great things the ATC does?
Of course not.
Just worth noting that the ATC of TODAY saw fit to feature Bill Bryson's and Robert Redford's work TO ITS MEMBERSHIP over that of more humble origins the THEY KNOW FULL WELL better captures the heart and soul of the trail they LOVE.
Given the HIGH REGARD most of us hold the organization, it probably takes someone like me take issue with that DETAIL a public forum. That said, I feel confident that more than a few have had similar thoughts.
As organizations grow, they can change character-- and little things can send a loud message.
saltysack
11-14-2015, 16:40
32613Trash just cleaned up from Jerry's Cabin shelter,26 miles north of Hot Springs NC.The trail register there had many SOBO notes.Not all of this mess was left by thru hikers but it's more than I have found in recent years.Next year's NOBO's will once again find full shelters and litter that overwhelms some trail volunteers...
Makes me sick!! Thx for all you do! I make a point to clean up trash left behind...every bit helps....
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JustaTouron
11-14-2015, 16:43
Jesus (according to legend) finished his mission.
Bryson didn't.
I thought his mission was to bring peace and good will to all of humanity (that and stamp out red cups) He came up short.
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Pedaling Fool
11-14-2015, 17:23
And in the next few years I imagine we'll get to see some Bill Bryson bobbly-head dolls at each one!
Now, that's funny!:D
Sarcasm the elf
11-14-2015, 17:51
I thought his mission was to bring peace and good will to all of humanity (that and stamp out red cups) He came up short.
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Next time I order at Starbucks I'm telling them my name is Bill Bryson. That way I can offend everyone at once.
TJ aka Teej
11-14-2015, 17:57
BSP asks ATC for help mitigating increased AT hiker impact.
ATC heavily promotes a movie that most say will increase AT hiker impact.
It didn't go unnoticed.
TJ aka Teej
11-14-2015, 18:00
The decision to feature a Bill Bryson bobble head doll AND his books AND his DVDs on the cover of the ATCs catalogue deserves to be mocked.
C'mon, Rick. It's not like they put the movie on the cover of the ATN.
Oh, wait...
TJ aka Teej
11-14-2015, 18:00
The decision to feature a Bill Bryson bobble head doll AND his books AND his DVDs on the cover of the ATCs catalogue deserves to be mocked.
C'mon, Rick. It's not like they put the movie on the cover of the ATN.
Oh, wait...
BirdBrain
11-14-2015, 19:39
Next time I order at Starbucks I'm telling them my name is Bill Bryson. That way I can offend everyone at once.
Don't forget these guys.
~
Sarcasm the elf
11-14-2015, 19:42
Don't forget these guys.
~
Gandolf was always my favorite Avenger.
BSP asks ATC for help mitigating increased AT hiker impact.
ATC heavily promotes a movie that most say will increase AT hiker impact.
It didn't go unnoticed.
So what's the ATC suppose to do, tell people not to hike the trail?
I saw WITW and I doubt it will inspire any of the crowd that was in the theater with me to hike much. Mostly they seemed to be elderly Redford fans.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2015, 20:25
youtube vids are bringin' out the "problem hikers" on the AT. lots of them are party vids showin' dopin' and drinkin'.
Long before the AT became commerical. I made a decision to support them only in token ways. Cleaning up my area when I have the time and rarely in a minimal way with money. My major support has long been going to the Green Mountain Club. Quite frankly my heart would not be broken if the AT was allowed to become overgrown. I'm not forking over for advertising. The GMC just seems more important to me than individuals ego's., and even they are getting out of line. If grass roots support of the AT fizzles out so will the path. Just think hikers might actually have to carry a map and compass. If it becomes bobblehead commerical. My interest in the AT will become historical. No real interest in a racetrack fronting as a hiking trail, no interest a hiking trail catering the bucket list vacationing type with zero backwoods skills. Not on my dollar. If I were king close her for several years. Cull out the groupies.
youtube vids are bringin' out the "problem hikers" on the AT. lots of them are party vids showin' dopin' and drinkin'.
As usual Lone Wolf is correct. WITW probably won't encourage a dozen people to hike the trail. It wasn't even really about the trail.
capehiker
11-15-2015, 09:36
youtube vids are bringin' out the "problem hikers" on the AT. lots of them are party vids showin' dopin' and drinkin'.
There is a certain person who has a pretty visible presence on the Facebook AT groups who has been "producing" thru hiking vids with the dope smoking and party themes.
BirdBrain
11-15-2015, 10:30
32629
....................
rocketsocks
11-15-2015, 11:14
32629
....................Are you suggesting the ATC should have made a die cast champagne popping bobble head bank?
Offshore
11-15-2015, 11:48
I'm just happy that when ATC decided to offer a hand puppet of a bear as a movie tie-in, they got the species right and made it a black bear (italics theirs).
Lone Wolf
11-15-2015, 11:51
32629
....................
awesome photo
4eyedbuzzard
11-15-2015, 12:41
youtube vids are bringin' out the "problem hikers" on the AT. lots of them are party vids showin' dopin' and drinkin'.
32648
awesome photo
Awesome photo showin' a party, and drinkin', on the AT, on Katahdin. Problem hikers? Depends on whether one is the pot or the kettle.
Lone Wolf
11-15-2015, 13:08
32648
Awesome photo showin' a party, and drinkin', on the AT, on Katahdin. Problem hikers? Depends on whether one is the pot or the kettle.
rangers gave him the OK for the champagne
JustaTouron
11-15-2015, 13:12
rangers gave him the OK for the champagne
According to him.
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4eyedbuzzard
11-15-2015, 13:39
rangers gave him the OK for the champagneHere's the problem, IMO. Many of the same people who complain about alcohol, parties, large groups, celebrations, etc., everywhere else on the AT by other hikers, are defending what happened on Katahdin as being okay. So if you're a celebrity runner in search of trail running records and public recognition (and ultimately profiting financially by those feats), it's okay. But for everyone else, it isn't?
Hey, I don't think BSP handled the situation well by any stretch of the imagination. And I realize that he was given an okay for the champagne (but to keep it low-key) and that all the people in that photo aren't Jurek's immediate hiking group. But most of the "partying" on the AT isn't that of large organized groups either. It's just hikers who all happen to wind up at the same place in a given moment in time, and a party atmosphere develops, much as it did in this event. But if that photo was of some unknown thru-hiker spraying champagne on the summit with 30 onlookers, and not of a celebrity, I think the public response would be a lot different. The problem isn't that ONE person did it once. The problem is that now many will feel entitled to behave in the same fashion - if Jurek can celebrate like this, well then, so can I. It's no wonder BSP is concerned.
BirdBrain
11-15-2015, 15:08
32649
Better?
Sarcasm the elf
11-15-2015, 15:35
32649
Better?
Brilliant!!!
rocketsocks
11-15-2015, 18:24
32649
Better?
32653........................
rocketsocks
11-15-2015, 18:27
awesome photo
For the prosecutor...it was a gimme.
rocketsocks
11-15-2015, 18:30
Here's the problem, IMO. Many of the same people who complain about alcohol, parties, large groups, celebrations, etc., everywhere else on the AT by other hikers, are defending what happened on Katahdin as being okay. So if you're a celebrity runner in search of trail running records and public recognition (and ultimately profiting financially by those feats), it's okay. But for everyone else, it isn't?
Hey, I don't think BSP handled the situation well by any stretch of the imagination. And I realize that he was given an okay for the champagne (but to keep it low-key) and that all the people in that photo aren't Jurek's immediate hiking group. But most of the "partying" on the AT isn't that of large organized groups either. It's just hikers who all happen to wind up at the same place in a given moment in time, and a party atmosphere develops, much as it did in this event. But if that photo was of some unknown thru-hiker spraying champagne on the summit with 30 onlookers, and not of a celebrity, I think the public response would be a lot different. The problem isn't that ONE person did it once. The problem is that now many will feel entitled to behave in the same fashion - if Jurek can celebrate like this, well then, so can I. It's no wonder BSP is concerned.
That's it exactly...exactly!
TJ aka Teej
11-16-2015, 00:26
rangers gave him the OK for the champagne
Total B.S. His group was met as they sped into KSC and the drivers were ticketed for speeding on the Tote Rd. and entering a closed parking area.
His claim that after that they told him booze was OK is ridiculous.
BirdBrain
11-16-2015, 00:38
Total B.S. His group was met as they sped into KSC and the drivers were ticketed for speeding on the Tote Rd. and entering a closed parking area.
His claim that after that they told him booze was OK is ridiculous.
Let's get the hear-say correct. Scott claims the guy who gave him the booze at the peak told him that some unnamed person said it was okay. Scott did not get permission. The person carrying the booze supposed got permission. I am yet to hear a statement from the person who supposedly got permission from some unnamed person. All I have seen is a claim that someone told him that someone said it was okay. That should trump any video or picture or any statement from any authority that claims they met with Scott's sponsors and told them to not have it happen. :D
However, that is all old news. Let's hear more about why I should be offended by red cups and bobble-heads.
DaSchwartz
11-16-2015, 02:54
ATC is sitting on 15 million in cash right now and turns a profit of 2 million a year, although it's a non-profit so the money isn't taxed or payed out in dividends. But what are they actually doing with that cash??? I just don't see where they spend any of it, unless of course it's the shelters in the Whites where they charge.
ATC is sitting on 15 million in cash right now and turns a profit of 2 million a year, although it's a non-profit so the money isn't taxed or payed out in dividends. But what are they actually doing with that cash??? I just don't see where they spend any of it, unless of course it's the shelters in the Whites where they charge.
Where to begin? I think that you have confused AMC with ATC. AMC manages the huts and charges a fee. ATC distributes a great deal of resources to support the trail. As a member of MATC we greatly appreciate the support, financial and otherwise, from ATC.
4eyedbuzzard
11-16-2015, 09:52
ATC is sitting on 15 million in cash right now and turns a profit of 2 million a year, although it's a non-profit so the money isn't taxed or payed out in dividends. But what are they actually doing with that cash??? I just don't see where they spend any of it, unless of course it's the shelters in the Whites where they charge.Whether it's ATC or AMC doesn't really make a difference. Both are non-profit organizations. They don't make any "profit". They do have significant assets from which they may draw investment income, use as collateral for loans, etc. A lot of both organizations' income and revenue goes into land acquisition and funding outdoor and environmental projects and programs. Obviously, their objectives and purposes differ slightly based upon why the were formed and their areas of responsibility.
Both have revenues in the millions. Both have assets in the millions. Both have significant cash on hand in order to function. But assets are not all cash, which is generally a small portion of total assets. Assets include all property (real and physical), investments, endowments, etc. which cannot be easily converted to cash.
ATC's total assets were approximately $17M for fiscal 2014 (with about $1.6M cash) if that is the "cash" you are talking about.
For comparison, AMC's total assets were approximately $117M for fiscal 2014 (with about $8.5M cash). AMC's Outdoor Centers which include the huts in the Whites, actually run at a very slight loss, with both revenues and expenditures of just over $11M for 2014.
AMC is by far the larger of the two organizations based upon finances. Both organizations likely sit on significant cash much of the time to acquire land, fund projects, buildings, environmental work, scholarships, pay bills, payroll, contractors, etc. They still have to operate like any other business from an accounting standpoint - which means having enough money on hand to meet current projected expenses. This is termed cash and cash equivalents (short term investments, savings, checking accounts). NOT having enough cash to meet operating expenses would indicate a really poorly managed organization.
Here are links to the 2014 financial reports for both organizations:
ATC - https://www.appalachiantrail.org/docs/default-source/annual-report/atc-annual-report-2014.pdf?sfvrsn=0
AMC - http://www.outdoors.org/pdf/upload/2014-AMC-Financial-Statements-and-Report-of-Independent-Auditor.pdf
Tuckahoe
11-16-2015, 10:36
Damn 4eyedbuzzard you need to get your hand slapped for bringing comments sense in the discussion.
My girlfriend wants a pair of those $100 socks. She donates $10 a month, she thinks she should have a pair sent to her :D
I saw it... well I saw the first 40 or so mins of it and then left. It was really really dull.
First 40 minutes! Well then; using Bill Bryson's logic, you watched the movie!
Referring to the last line of his book which totally ruined the book for me. "I don't care what anyone says, I hiked the Appalachian Trail."
During my thru I thoroughly enjoyed the shelter entries approximately half way through Virginia in which everyone wrote how they hiked the same distance as Bill Bryson, and in that case hiked the Appalachian Trail.
But I get it. You could make another bobblehead of someone more influential to the development of the trail. But Bill Bryson made it more popular. And you know how people spend their money....follow the trends.
rocketsocks
11-16-2015, 18:13
First 40 minutes! Well then; using Bill Bryson's logic, you watched the movie!
Referring to the last line of his book which totally ruined the book for me. "I don't care what anyone says, I hiked the Appalachian Trail."
During my thru I thoroughly enjoyed the shelter entries approximately half way through Virginia in which everyone wrote how they hiked the same distance as Bill Bryson, and in that case hiked the Appalachian Trail.
But I get it. You could make another bobblehead of someone more influential to the development of the trail. But Bill Bryson made it more popular. And you know how people spend their money....follow the trends.
You took it out of context, here's what it really says.
"We didn’t walk 2,200 miles, it’s true, but here’s the thing: we tried. So Katz was right after all, and I don’t care what anybody says. We hiked the Appalachian Trail"
rocketsocks
11-16-2015, 18:15
Well, I've hiked the Appalachian trail too...about 130 miles of it.
Well, I've hiked the Appalachian trail too...about 130 miles of it.
And I've hiked most of Maine and climbed Katahdin, so I've hiked it too! :D
bamboo bob
11-16-2015, 20:24
Long before the AT became commerical. I made a decision to support them only in token ways. Cleaning up my area when I have the time and rarely in a minimal way with money. My major support has long been going to the Green Mountain Club. Quite frankly my heart would not be broken if the AT was allowed to become overgrown. I'm not forking over for advertising. The GMC just seems more important to me than individuals ego's., and even they are getting out of line. If grass roots support of the AT fizzles out so will the path. Just think hikers might actually have to carry a map and compass. If it becomes bobblehead commerical. My interest in the AT will become historical. No real interest in a racetrack fronting as a hiking trail, no interest a hiking trail catering the bucket list vacationing type with zero backwoods skills. Not on my dollar. If I were king close her for several years. Cull out the groupies.
I might of said that but you did a good job at it.
My girlfriend wants a pair of those $100 socks. She donates $10 a month, she thinks she should have a pair sent to her :D
What socks you talking about?
Walk in the Woods movie didn't stay long at our theatres....never heard how well it did nationwide. Expect it to be out on DVD at redbox soon, I missed seeing it at the cinema.
What socks you talking about?
http://darntough.com/men/mens-hike-trek/atc-sock-micro-crew-cushion
It came with a request for Donations. $100 gets you a free pair of socks with the ATC logo on them.
dzierzak
11-17-2015, 13:15
And I've hiked most of Maine and climbed Katahdin, so I've hiked it too! :D
I've lost track of the number of times I've hiked the whole width of the AT....:rolleyes:
http://darntough.com/men/mens-hike-trek/atc-sock-micro-crew-cushion
It came with a request for Donations. $100 gets you a free pair of socks with the ATC logo on them.
Darn Tough is a great company located in a small town in VT and thier socks are loved by thru hikers. When you buy a pair with the ATC logo they give/pay something like $1 to the ATC.
The AT also liscences their (our?) logo to another sock company which are the ones you get as part of this promotion.
Why the ATC would liscence thier logo to a competitor of Darn Tough so soon is confusing. Perhaps they had a falling out. Seems like a very odd way for the ATC to do business.
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 06:20
You took it out of context, here's what it really says.
"We didn’t walk 2,200 miles, it’s true, but here’s the thing: we tried. So Katz was right after all, and I don’t care what anybody says. We hiked the Appalachian Trail"
May not have hiked all the trail
But he did hit some high points
He got a feel for what it was about
Most people that hike 800-900 miles of sections
Just arent going to quit cold turkey
Bryson did
Because he did it only for the book
Did he hike it, ...or exploit it?
Popularization is double-edged sword.
Traveler
11-18-2015, 06:57
Some people do it to escape responsibility, some for a book, some for the enjoyment of it, some for the challenge.
HYOH
Lone Wolf
11-18-2015, 07:50
Because he did it only for the book
Did he hike it, ...or exploit it?
so? some do it just for a damn certificate and patch. the ATC ain't complainin' if he exploited it. they're hoping to profit
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 12:51
Im not complaining either
rocketsocks
11-18-2015, 13:08
May not have hiked all the trail
But he did hit some high points
He got a feel for what it was about
Most people that hike 800-900 miles of sections
Just arent going to quit cold turkey
Bryson did
Because he did it only for the book
Did he hike it, ...or exploit it?
Popularization is double-edged sword.perhaps, but that's a completely different argument.
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 13:16
perhaps, but that's a completely different argument.
Is it?
People that dislike bryson dont even know him. They dislike his effect on the trail and commercialization of it. The focus of this thread was atc apparently embracing that through promootion of the bobblehead.
Atc is still in mode of cramming users on trail, regardless of experience. Thats what the underlying sentimments are about
rocketsocks
11-18-2015, 13:35
Is it?
People that dislike bryson dont even know him. They dislike his effect on the trail and commercialization of it. The focus of this thread was atc apparently embracing that through promootion of the bobblehead.
Atc is still in mode of cramming users on trail, regardless of experience. Thats what the underlying sentimments are about
Good point, fare enough...lets roll with it. I'll return your punt.
Did Bill Bryson hike knowing he would write a book about it? Or did he just go hiking, and the book came later as an after thought? I don't have a clue!
Cramming hikers on the trail, eh? I suppose that's one way of putting it. I doubt if Benton MacKaye would have put it that way.
There's a push in government(s) these days to privatize anything that's not tied down. This applies to national parks as well. The more people use and support the AT, the less likely it is to suffer that fate. There's strength in numbers, and maybe ATC is (shrewdly) trying to get their numbers up.
I don't really "get" the Bryson bobblehead doll, but it doesn't irk me all that much.
rocketsocks
11-18-2015, 13:58
Cramming hikers on the trail, eh? I suppose that's one way of putting it. I doubt if Benton MacKaye would have put it that way.
There's a push in government(s) these days to privatize anything that's not tied down. This applies to national parks as well. The more people use and support the AT, the less likely it is to suffer that fate. There's strength in numbers, and maybe ATC is (shrewdly) trying to get their numbers up.
I don't really "get" the Bryson bobblehead doll, but it doesn't irk me all that much.pretty much this
JustaTouron
11-18-2015, 17:11
Atc is going to make a few pennies selling the bobble heads to clueless family members of folks who either just finished the at or who are planning on hiking it next year. Don't be surprised if you get one for Xmas from a family member that loves Redford.
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MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 17:22
Cramming hikers on the trail, eh? I suppose that's one way of putting it. I doubt if Benton MacKaye would have put it that way.
There's a push in government(s) these days to privatize anything that's not tied down. This applies to national parks as well. The more people use and support the AT, the less likely it is to suffer that fate. There's strength in numbers, and maybe ATC is (shrewdly) trying to get their numbers up.
I don't really "get" the Bryson bobblehead doll, but it doesn't irk me all that much.
Benton mackeye never dreamed 50+ people per night would be at a shelter.
I stayed in vicinity of Thomas Knob saturday night. In the 1/8 mile stretch surrounding that, there was probably 50 people or more. In mid november. With a forecast of 25 mph gusting to 40, and temp in low 20s. Thats not even considering the many dozens of dayhikers out to see the ponies and views.
At what point do some agencies start to care about preserving the experience?
AT has already become an urban feeling trail due to numbers, services, and cell phones, during some times of year and days of week.
JustaTouron
11-18-2015, 17:36
Benton mackeye never dreamed 50+ people per night would be at a shelter.
I stayed in vicinity of Thomas Knob saturday night. In the 1/8 mile stretch surrounding that, there was probably 50 people or more. In mid november. With a forecast of 25 mph gusting to 40, and temp in low 20s.
At what point do some agencies start to care about preserving the experience?
AT has already become an urban feeling trail due to numbers, services, and cell phones, during some times of year and days of week.
Be careful, talk like that and people might think you're Bissell
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Tipi Walter
11-18-2015, 18:11
Benton mackeye never dreamed 50+ people per night would be at a shelter.
I stayed in vicinity of Thomas Knob saturday night. In the 1/8 mile stretch surrounding that, there was probably 50 people or more. In mid november. With a forecast of 25 mph gusting to 40, and temp in low 20s. Thats not even considering the many dozens of dayhikers out to see the ponies and views.
At what point do some agencies start to care about preserving the experience?
AT has already become an urban feeling trail due to numbers, services, and cell phones, during some times of year and days of week.
Your example of Thomas Knob needs to be explained: Massie Gap is just a couple miles away and it offers an overnight parking lot and easy, very easy, access to the AT and the Knob shelter by cars and trucks and motorcyclists.
At what point do some agencies start to care about preserving the experience? When they close the roads leading into these "wilderness" areas FIRST and then study the preservation of the experience.
Over and over again road access leads to overuse and blight. First priority therefore is to close these tourist roads, like the Massie Gap road and parking lot, the Cades Cove so-called Nature Motor Loop, the Clingmans Dome road, the road up to the top of Grandfather Mt in NC, the blighted road up to Mt Washington and the cog railroad etc.
Making a wild place easy to get to or making a mountaintop easy to reach without earning it on foot, in my opinion destroys the whole backcountry policy of nature appreciation.
JustaTouron
11-18-2015, 18:44
Benton wanted the AT to be accessible for day hikers. What he never dreamed of was masses of people spending 6 months on the trail.
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The AT would not exist as we know it today without the ATC, trail clubs, and hikers. If no one hiked the trail there would be no point in managing and maintaining it. But it takes money to do this. Someone is more likely to donate and support the ATC if they have hiked it or plan to hike it. So I can see why the ATC promotes the trail. More people that know and use the trail translates to more support. Selling T-shirts, books, and now bobbleheads may add a little to their coffers. And I disagree, if you read Benton MacKaye's essay, he envisioned 40,000 people using the AT.
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 19:39
Benton wanted the AT to be accessible for day hikers. What he never dreamed of was masses of people spending 6 months on the trail.
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The only thing in his manifesto Mackeye got right , was that a trail would be a good idea. The rest was rubbish.
The trail people chose, and that was developed, is more solitary and wild in nature than anything he conceived.
Fortunately.
People today are so desperate for meaningful experience.
Some think the Appalachian Trail with the mystique might satisfy that desperation. Being that the AT is supposedly within a one day drive for 21% of the population of the US (that's a few years old -- maybe more nowadays) and with the speed of life today, that is close-by for those seeking something they can't describe easily and are desperately pursuing.
Well, for at least two days or so until the next shiny object shows up on Facebook.
I don't doubt the Internet has had more responsibility in attracting new short-term hikers to the Appalachian Trail than Robert Redford (although he is a heck of an actor and so is Nick Nolte).
Soon, whispers on the lower right of your screen will conglomerate all the moment by moment action of hikers on the Appalachian Trail. You can stay abreast of all the action while your eyes dart back to email and text messaging and Facebook updates and voice mails (who does that anymore?),
Guy describing a new casino along the PCT when he picked up Pearson and I on our way to a maildrop -- "It's just like Vegas." Nope, wasn't. It was just purple.
Datto
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 20:36
People today are so desperate for meaningful experience.
Some think the Appalachian Trail with the mystique might satisfy that desperation. Being that the AT is supposedly within a one day drive for 21% of the
Datto
It is a gateway drug for many.
For many, its just a party.
For some its a revenue or fame producing endeavor.
For others, who knows.
Just think what might have transpired had Bill Bryson hiked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail in a single season.
No telling what might have been written.
It s a sign of the times. People demand immediate results -- whether it is a book with deadlines or a timeline for success or a graduation from college or meeting the requirements of a marriage.
Some things are not for rushing -- they're for savoring.
That is the gap between A Walk In The Woods and a thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail.
Datto
Getting back to RickB's opening post a bit... it's interesting that ATC has maintained a good relationship with Bill Bryson to this day, even to the point of having Bryson be a spokesperson for the AT. So that would seem to put to rest any notion that Bryson "exploited" the trail somehow.
Should the ATC be involved in self-promotion? Good grief, why not? It's the American Way. In some ways it's self-preservation, a necessary evil. What makes the AT different from any other path in the woods? You found out about the AT... how, exactly?
Seems to me some folks here have decided that since they're finally onto it, any further publicity is counterproductive.
Lone Wolf
11-18-2015, 21:15
just wish they would build a damn bridge over the baby creek north of damascus. been out over 2 years. the re-route is poorly blazed. both NOBO and SOBO hikers are walking the creeper trail for many miles before they realize there are no white blazes. shuttled a gal the other day who came back to damascus cuz she missed the 5 mile walk into damascus NOBO. no excuses for piss poor signage and blazing
Should the ATC be involved in self-promotion? Good grief, why not? It's the American Way.
I thnk I speak for quite a few forum viewers that a Bobblebody of Scarlett Johansson hiking the Appalachian Trail would fit nicely on the dashboard of an F-150.
Way more interesting than a Bobblehead of an old guy with a beard. Well, if I was a merchandising the AT for extra income that is.
Who needs to be contacted to get Scarlett on the AT?
This to substantially increase the number of women interested in hiking the AT. Who is not in favor of that?
Datto
Lone Wolf
11-18-2015, 21:16
just wish they would build a damn bridge over the baby creek north of damascus. been out over 2 years. the re-route is poorly blazed. both NOBO and SOBO hikers are walking the creeper trail for many miles before they realize there are no white blazes. shuttled a gal the other day who came back to damascus cuz she missed the 5 mile walk into damascus NOBO. no excuses for piss poor signage and blazing
meant SOBO on her thru hike
Honestly, if world-wide men knew how attractive the women are on the Appalachian Trail...
So don't tell anyone. Shhhhh. This will be our secret.
Keep promoting the Bobblehead of the old guy with the beard. No one will know.
Soon, we'll diminsh the number of AT hikers on the Trail.
Datto
It is a gateway drug for many.
You are resoundly correct. Once an individual or a couple experiences the taste of a long-distance hike it is oh so difficult to put aside and continue with life as it has been in the past. Very very difficult to put aside the experiences and benefits and viewpoint of a long-distance hike and go back to how "the rest" live a daily lifestyle. But that is to be expected.
For many, its just a party.
For only a few, that is the case. For most, hiker midnight actually has meaning and one is spent from the exertion of the day. I attended quite a few parties during my AT thru-hike but ended up having to hit the sack because I was wasted from the effort of the day. The people who I saw frequently partying never made it out of Virginia.
For some its a revenue or fame producing endeavor.
My observation was that these people -- the fame gatherers -- were so rare as to be non-existent. Except for whatever media event the fame gatherers were capable of arranging. Almost everyone I hiked with on my AT thru-hike was against publicity, against current news, against noteriety. The people I hiked with were humbled by the experience.
So when the fame gatherers are compared to the average AT
So when the fame gatherers are compared to the average AT
So when the fame gatherers are compared to the average AT thru-hiker, the numbers pale in comparison. There is 99% focus on the fame gatherers who number 1% of the total thru-hikers.
It's just the media focusing on the unusual on the quirky on the 1%. If one focuses on the fame gatherers, it's an unusual skew way off of the norm.
Datto
Datto
If the media really wanted to find a story about the Appalachian Trail the public would find captivating, there wouldn't be such a focus on some blowhard trail runner claiming to be a thru-hiker and spewing Champagne all over the top of Katahdin. I consider that a complete waste of good Champagne. That whole story is fleeting and people are on to the next story afterwards and the next after that. It's only a topic that upsets a bunch of hikers long-term -- the 1% or less of the readers involved in the story.
If the media wanted to capture the long-term interest of the audience, they'd focus on the story of why people showed up to the Trail in the first place. Relationships that had gone awry and the sorting out afterward on the Trail. People who had seen the worst that man can do to fellow man and were sorting that out as they went forward. Military people who were coming out of the military world and into civilian life and struggling to make sense off all of that. People who had come on hard economic times and took time off to gather what it is they intended to be in the future. People on the Trail who were coming to terms with their sexuality. People on the Trail who had just come out of prison. People who showed up to the Appalachian Trail to find love.
Now those are the stories that would have lasting impact with viewers and readers. Imagine the cable TV title, "Love on the Appalachian Trail". Ha, way more viewers that Hoarders.
But really, not some media whore dude trail running the AT. Geez, who cares about that beyond 10 seconds of newsfeed.
This is what we have today in the media. A complete lack of depth to any story that can't be encapsulated into a 30 second sound bite.
This is why Frontline and American Experience and Nova and sometimes 60 minutes still gain popularity. There is a depth to the story presented by the media (if you can sort through the politics of the story from the meat of the story).
If the media knew how many people found love on the Appalachian Trail -- that might be a Pulitzer Prize winner for a reporter or an Emmy for a news team. Wow, that would be a blisterhouse of a story people would read over and over. A career maker for a reporter making $27,000 per year in salary.
But don't tell any of the reporters. That doesn't fit into 30 seconds of life.
Datto
MuddyWaters
11-18-2015, 23:07
;
just wish they would build a damn bridge over the baby creek north of damascus. been out over 2 years. the re-route is poorly blazed. both NOBO and SOBO hikers are walking the creeper trail for many miles before they realize there are no white blazes. shuttled a gal the other day who came back to damascus cuz she missed the 5 mile walk into damascus NOBO. no excuses for piss poor signage and blazing
I walked this monday sobo. Not a single issue. The detour was well posted with brown metal poles with white blazes. There was signs at north junction, and map and signs at south junction of detour.
I can see no way someone couldnt easily follow this. It is better signed than most of trail. Perhaps this is recent? You can clearly see next blaze from each, except up the trail to south detour, where sign at parking lot/road says 1/4 mile to intersection with AT. There are no blazes in that stretch of trail.
Agree, bridge needs to be fixed
The ATC deserves kudos for being proactive because of how AWITW might have changed the AT experience for the worst. Their efforts will pay dividends into the future. Even without that film, the AT was becoming overcrowded in places, and abused in even more places.
When the special efforts by ATC to counter the anticipated 2016 crowds began, the expectation probably was that the film would be trendy, uplifting, and would make wannabe thru-hikers rush out to REI to get geared up.
But I also think that by next July, we'll see that the film only had a modest impact on the Trail's numbers, if any. Despite the deserved pedigree of Redford et al, AWITW was too lame to attract a huge theatre audience, and of those who saw it, how many will want to duplicate those "experiences?"
At this point in time the AT doesn't need anymore promotion than Fenway Park. What the AT needs is grass roots local care.
MuddyWaters
11-19-2015, 00:03
But I also think that by next July, we'll see that the film only had a modest impact on the Trail's numbers, if any. Despite the deserved pedigree of Redford et al, AWITW was too lame to attract a huge theatre audience, and of those who saw it, how many will want to duplicate those "experiences?"
I agree with lame assessment of AWITW.
But.....
AWITW grossed 30million so far, at 64th for year
Wild grossed 37 million in 2014, ranked 83rd or so
Numbers suggest a measureable impact might be expected based on response to wild. Audience demographics probably plays a role though.
I am surprised that it grossed $30 million. Where I live, the theatre playing AWITW was sparsely attended for its two-week run according to someone I know who works there. The night I saw it at the same multiplex, myself and a friend had the theatre to ourselves. We could, and did, talk aloud without disturbing anyone.
Still, I'd like to see the demographics behind the $30 million. Were most of them potential hikers? Would many of the moviegoers be inspired to try a hike of any length on the AT? Guess we'll find out soon enough...
Traveler
11-19-2015, 08:00
It was a shame Newman became ill about the time Redford wanted to do the film, I think a final "buddy" film with those two would have been a heck of an attraction. But fate interrupted and the movie lost some of its luster as the screenplay was rewritten.
However, I doubt a tale of two old acquaintances using the AT as a backdrop will have the same impact as the internet and the 82,000 video diaries, hiking how-to videos, hike along videos, and other websites, blogs, and promotional stuff have. If people are looking for a "bad guy" in luring all these people to the AT, a quick look at Youtube will find far more than a guy who wrote a book that many people have never read, which some other famous guy made a movie of even less went to see.
Adding to the mix, large outfitters like REI who continually promote long distance elements in hiking, canoe/kayak trips, and mountaineering, the amount of promotion that occurs during the year makes AWITW pale in comparison. The history of trail population is pretty clear in its routinely escalating numbers long before AWITW, due to promotional activities, one on one awareness, and media access for people inclined to discover such things. I don't see that changing anytime soon, nor do I see the bubble crowd conditions easing in the foreseeable future.
shelterbuilder
11-19-2015, 20:27
No, the ATC has NOT gone mad. Given the inevitable nature of the movie's release, they did the only thing that they could do: mitigation, both before and after the fact. I guess it's true that you can't please all of the people all of the time. (B. M. would not have been pleased to see an A.T. without work camps dotting the landscape.) Bobbleheads are a "groaner" no matter where they rear their ugly heads. Personally, I didn't care much for the book, but I thought that the movie was a hoot! HYOH, people.
Sarcasm the elf
11-19-2015, 23:01
I have a suspicion that the movie may have more of an impact once it hits HBO/netflix and the like. I know a fair number of people who got interested in hiking due to the Into The Wild movie, not so much because of MCCandle's story as because of the way the movie depcited the adventure. There are a lot of people with wanderlust who have simply never conceived that they could throw on a pack and tramp from place to place. I feel that AWITW will have the same effect on a fair number of people who catch it by chance once it's on cable.
shelterbuilder
11-20-2015, 00:16
Interesting thought. Personally, I don't do the HBO/Netflix thing - I prefer to make movie night a REAL trip to the movies (the popcorn is better!). It will be interesting to see if your idea is true. I know that ATC is expecting a mad rush NOBO this coming Spring....
I have a suspicion that the movie may have more of an impact once it hits HBO/netflix and the like. I know a fair number of people who got interested in hiking due to the Into The Wild movie, not so much because of MCCandle's story as because of the way the movie depcited the adventure. There are a lot of people with wanderlust who have simply never conceived that they could throw on a pack and tramp from place to place. I feel that AWITW will have the same effect on a fair number of people who catch it by chance once it's on cable.
Other than a couple picturesque views it didn't show them having much fun with the actual hiking part. I doubt it will convince many to emulate their experience.
4eyedbuzzard
11-20-2015, 15:02
...However, I doubt a tale of two old acquaintances using the AT as a backdrop will have the same impact as the internet and the 82,000 video diaries, hiking how-to videos, hike along videos, and other websites, blogs, and promotional stuff have. If people are looking for a "bad guy" in luring all these people to the AT, a quick look at Youtube will find far more than a guy who wrote a book that many people have never read, which some other famous guy made a movie of even less went to see.
Adding to the mix, large outfitters like REI who continually promote long distance elements in hiking, canoe/kayak trips, and mountaineering, the amount of promotion that occurs during the year makes AWITW pale in comparison. The history of trail population is pretty clear in its routinely escalating numbers long before AWITW, due to promotional activities, one on one awareness, and media access for people inclined to discover such things. I don't see that changing anytime soon, nor do I see the bubble crowd conditions easing in the foreseeable future.
Other than a couple picturesque views it didn't show them having much fun with the actual hiking part. I doubt it will convince many to emulate their experience.
I don't see AWITW increasing AT traffic as much as is feared by some either. Okay, maybe it will be more crowded from Springer to Neel Gap. It might even provide a boon to shuttlers ferrying people out and back to Hartsfield. ;) But it will be nothing like the 10 fold increase witnessed from 1970 to 1980, a lot of which was attributed to (blamed on) Ed Garvey's book, "Appalachian Hiker". Garvey's book coincided with an already growing back to nature movement, increases in leisure time, etc., that no doubt also fueled this massive increase. The social climate just isn't the same. Typically from 1980 on the number of thru-hikers has doubled every decade since 1980, and no doubt there will continue to be growth. The book hasn't spurred that much increase since publication, nor do I think the movie will either. The social climate just isn't conducive to it.
It wasn't long ago that you would tell someone you hiked the AT and they would not have a clue what the heck you were talking about.
I am sure that still holds true more than we realize-- perhaps in other countries. The movie has got to raise awareness across the globe. And that has to translate into more traffic.
Some of those learning about the AT will turn to the ATC.
Not many will ever see their bobble head and the CONTINUED embrace of all things Robert Redford and Bill Bryson, thankfully. Hopefully that contact, in whatever form it takes, will lead to an introduction to a more authentic introduction to the Trail.
In the end the Bobble Head mentality will pass -- or stay, who knows. But lest anyone think I am anti Bryson, please let me assure everyone I am not. It's just a matter of time and place.
Sort of like how one can love Dunkin Donuts and Little Debbie's (especially) but still be aghast if you saw them being served at a conference for the American Diabetes Association.
Professor Paul
11-24-2015, 01:55
I must confess to being a bit surprised and disappointed with the tone of many of the posts on this thread. I happened to get to know the AT because I grew up in its shadow, so it was always kind of "there" for me. Who cares if others get to know it from a book or a movie or in any other fashion? If people are made happier by hiking or even driving past the trail, and if that experience was made possible because they watched a boring movie, then that boring movie did something good in my view. One of the things I had always found appealing about the hiking culture (other than the "hiking" part) was its deep tolerance and respect for the diversity of people and nature. Hikers always seemed to be to be just a little bit more relaxed and open-minded than most.
Many of the comments here, by contrast are not only judgmental--highly judgmental--but would be smarmy, arrogant and obnoxious if the topic were anything other than hiking. The attitude seems to me like it can be rephrased as, "how dare these hikers who are not as purely dedicated to the AT mission as I am defile the woods with their presence?" I'm not talking about litterbugs, who genuinely DO defile the woods, or people who actively detract from others' encounter with nature. I'm talking about the subtle mockery in some posts of dayhikers, folks who can't or maybe won't endure the very real hardships of the trail, folks who support the trail very deeply but choose to do so by spending their money to do so (like maybe old or disabled people) rather than live in the woods, and others who apparently fall short of the thru-hiker ideal. What happened to HYOH? Who made you mockers the official interpreters of what the AT is or should be? Everyone engages the trail in their own way, for their own reasons, and as their own circumstances allow. Some people even like or collect bobbleheads. Plenty of folks out there in the horrible "real" world, who might be too busy to spend a lot of time in the woods but sincerely wish they could get out more, might like bobbleheads. Who cares? I like books, they like bobbleheads. Whatever. And if they buy a bobblehead and it helps raise money for trail maintenance, that is a very, very good thing in my view.
I guess I was naïve in believing the AT crowd to be unusually tolerant and accepting of folks as they are. I guess that for many, it's the same dynamic as any other clique, with just a different focus and identity.
Really, they have.
32608
Yeah I could not believe what I was seeing when I received that sales catalog in the mail, I hope Bill Bryson fell out of his chair with laughter....
Pedaling Fool
11-24-2015, 07:53
I guess I was naïve in believing the AT crowd to be unusually tolerant and accepting of folks as they are. I guess that for many, it's the same dynamic as any other clique, with just a different focus and identity.Yeah, that was hugely naive on your part.:D;)
4eyedbuzzard
11-24-2015, 11:30
...I guess I was naïve in believing the AT crowd to be unusually tolerant and accepting of folks as they are. I guess that for many, it's the same dynamic as any other clique, with just a different focus and identity.I think threads like this unfortunately often bring out a lot more of what you may consider intolerant opinions, even from people who are generally very supportive of the notion that introducing people to hiking and the AT, and having as many people involved, even casually, is a good thing. The AT is often called the "The People's Trail". Most folks here at WB are very supportive of that concept, especially as it was Benton MacKaye's vision that the AT provide a wilderness experience to as many people as possible. Most of us here are NOT elitist hikers who believe the trail is only for them. Most of us here are NOT even thru-hikers. Most of us here aren't long distance hiking every year and living on the trail. Most of us are just regular people who have jobs, families, and other interests - but with a passion for hiking and also protecting the AT from ABUSE.
One of the greatest causes of trail abuse are uneducated hikers whose behavior often isn't in keeping with protecting the trail and what the greatest part of the hiking community would like to present to society. It's everything from not practicing reasonable LNT, to excessive partying, etc. And unfortunately, mass media exposure of the trail tends to increase this demographic on the trail. Sure, there are a few members here who are at times rather intolerant, but sometimes even those that seem so simply present a very narrow comment that doesn't reflect their overall opinion due to the thread context. That said, like any internet board, opinions also tend to be over-stated and rather blunt at times, compared to how the same person would present their opinion in real life. I think that is more a reflection on the nature of social media though, than it is a reflection on the vast majority of hikers and WB members.
dudeijuststarted
11-24-2015, 11:58
Jesus (according to legend) finished his mission.
Bryson didn't.
Excellent.
[snip...]
The attitude seems to me like it can be rephrased as, "how dare these hikers who are not as purely dedicated to the AT mission as I am defile the woods with their presence?" I'm not talking about litterbugs, who genuinely DO defile the woods, or people who actively detract from others' encounter with nature. I'm talking about the subtle mockery in some posts of dayhikers, folks who can't or maybe won't endure the very real hardships of the trail, folks who support the trail very deeply but choose to do so by spending their money to do so (like maybe old or disabled people) rather than live in the woods, and others who apparently fall short of the thru-hiker ideal.
Yep, there's some ageism there, ya think? Remember also that a lot of trail maintainers and builders are in the Redford and Newman and Nolte demographic. The majority, from what I've seen. You know, the folks who organize and do the real work of making the trail a thing.
The attitude seems to me like it can be rephrased as, "how dare these hikers who are not as purely dedicated to the AT mission as I am defile the woods with their presence .
That take away is just plain weird.