Bottle(s) vs Camel Bak

[ATaBoy]

AT brethren….and sisteren….need a Thanksgiving revelation. My thru hike plan is to start from Springer about March 23rd. I know Mr.Farenheit can dip low and I have read stories about reservoir lines freezing etc. Would it be better to opt for bottle instead and eliminate risk and go to Camelbak later perhaps Erwin,Tnn thereabouts? Or can you use insulating tube and blow back H2O. Have heard opinions back and forth.Would also like to know that if tubing does freeze does it burst? Does bite valve burst? Or does line just not flow? Need some profound insight here please.

[nsherry61]

If you want to use a Camelbak in cold weather, just make sure to insulate the tube and mouthpiece with Camelbak's cold weather kit which is a piece of hose insulation and a bite-valve cover. It's what they include with their ski and snowboard packs.

Many people just use bottles anyway. Both ways work.

[egilbe]

Bottles are typically lighter. They are usually carried on the outside of your pack. Camelbacks are heavier and are usually carried in with the stuff that you want to stay dry. If you lose a bottle or one starts to leak, you have a backup. If your bladder leaks, you have no drinkable water and your clothes and sleeping back get wet...unless you take steps to prevent it.

You kind of have to balance convenience of taking a sip whenever you want, versus reaching back to grab a bottle and find out it isn't there. I guess there is no one "right" answer. Figure out what works for you.

Freezing tubes aren't much of a problem if you blow the water back into your bladder after you are done drinking it.

[Lyle]

Personally, I have reverted back to bottles. But when using a bladder in cold weather, you can just get into the habit of blowing the water from the hose back into the bladder after you take a drink. Just be sure you just blow and don't spit - that gets gross.

[Old Hiker]

Bottles for me. I've heard about the freezing and seen the effects of the bladder leaking into an unprepared (non-waterproofed) pack.

I can turn my bottles upside down if it's going to be freezing and only the top (bottom) will freeze. That being said: I only had ONE time my bottles partially froze in 2012. Even at 25*, if the bottle is in my tent, it hasn't frozen.

I DO keep my filter setup where it won't freeze, though.

YMMV, of course.

[mikec]

I use both but IMO, the advantage of bottles is that you can see how much water is left. With a Camelbak you never know if you are going to run out of water unless you stop, drop your pack, open it and take a look at the bladder. that kind of defeats the 'efficiency' advantage of a Camelbak.

[Kayjeckel]

Bottles all the way. Lighter, easier to replace (and you will have to replace. Budget enough money so that you're not using the same Smartwater bottle for 3 months, dude), and you can put your bottle in your sleeping bag with you if you're concerned about it freezing.

[coyote9]

+1 To what Kayjeckel said. I carry smartwater bottles or anything that shape and size. I just got tired of filling the camel back at springs/streams. I also dont need that much water on much of the AT. For as long as it takes to fill a camelback though, I can fill my smartwater bottles and drink a liter and be on the way again. Try it with a Sawyer and see how you like it.

[garlic08]

Let me count the ways: 1) It's not much of a problem on the AT, but I switched back to bottles after losing the bite valve a couple of times on chaparral and desert vegetation on the PCT and CDT. 2) I had problems getting debris stuck in the valve, like spruce needles, from filling up at springs. 3) Back before there were convenient shut-offs at the bite valve, I also had a problem with accidentally setting the pack down in a way that would squeeze the valve and I'd lose water outside the pack. 4) Ditto leaks inside the pack--a whitethorn acacia branch in AZ punctured the bladder through the pack, even--nasty stuff. 5) I don't like the idea of that much water in one container, for reliability. 6) Add the need to clean a couple of times over the term of a warm-weather thru-hike, and it just wasn't worth the "convenience" any more for me. 7) I wouldn't even think about cold weather concerns.

Many packs have low side pockets for water bottles, reachable while walking. Or use the buddy system, if applicable.

[MuddyWaters]

Water bottles .
But you need a pack designed for them
In sub-freezing conditions, bottles may be under my covers with me to keep from freezing, just depends how cold for how long.

[Coffee]

Smart water bottles...widely available, relatively cheap, seemingly indestructible and light weight.

[Sarcasm the elf]

In cold weather bottles are more reliable and less likely to break if frozen. For warmer weather, a camelbak will keep you better hydrated because the bitevalve and hose let you drink while you hike as opposed to needing to stop and take out a bottle.

[cmoulder]

Smart water bottles...widely available, relatively cheap, seemingly indestructible and light weight.

I use Gatorade bottles, both 20- and 32-oz, and when it's really cold I use plastic bubble mailers as water bottle covers and they insulate amazingly well. I can access them easily in Zpacks lower side pockets, although a quart-sized bottle with cover fits only in the Arc Haul water bottle pockets. A taller, skinnier bottle would be needed with the 52l Arc Blast.

[Scrum]

Water bottles. For cold weather hiking stuff the bottle into an old wool sock -- does wonders to stop the water from freezing. Also, you can put the water into the side pocket upside down, that way the water starts freezing where the air is -- in the bottom of the bottle, rather than the end you drink from.

[bigcranky]

We tried the water bladder thing for a few years. The convenience is great for drinking, but we went back to bottles after a while. Bottles are less expensive, easier to keep clean, easier to refill (and know how much water you have), and (for me) just as easy to drink, as I can reach my side pocket while wearing my pack.

We use 1-liter Gatorade wide mouth bottles. $1 each, and they come pre-filled with free Gatorade. :)

[Marta]

In cold weather, I'd pack at least one Nalgene bottle. If it gets really cold, and your water freezes in the bottle, a Nalgene can stand up to being immersed in boiling water to melt the ice inside. A Gatorade or Power Aid or Smart Water bottle can't take the heat. You can also fill a Nalgene with boiling water and put it inside your sleeping bag or under your clothes to warm up your hands/feet/body. (Turn it upside down and shake it to make sure not one drop of water is going to escape from it before you get it near insulated fabric.)

You have to sacrifice some cherished lightweight behaviors to be comfortable and safe when there's the possibility of temperatures below 20 or so.

On the AT, there are town stops or cell service where you can get a fairly reliable long-term weather forecast every two or three days. That will help you make decisions about whether to hike, hole up in town, and what sort of gear you will need for the conditions. If, for instance, you decide not to schlep gear for very cold temperatures...which you may not experience...and there is a storm and cold front approaching, you can always hang out at a hostel or motel, if your budget will stretch to it. If you want to keep carrying on no matter what, prepare for the worst and go for it.

[JohnG10]

The ice climbers wear a camelback inside their coat to ensure the water doesn't freeze, and they can hydrate easily/often. I've never tried it (since I have a "mule" style pack with storage) but all reports are that it works very well with a slim/body hugging pack like the runners and bicyclists use.

[SkeeterPee]

I was using a bladder/bitewing valve, but last week just went with 2 bottles. A liter Nalgene and a liter smart water. I like the Nalgene so I can measure out for freezer bag cooking. But it is hard to get those big bottles in/out of my pack. The smart bottles can be put in/out one handed.

Last week the Nalgene bottle was just starting to freeze on a night with 29F low. On a 24F low night I pulled the bottles in the bag with me about half way though the night. I was not sure, but I wondered if that already cold water might have caused some dampness from condensation of water inside the bag. perhaps it was just that the bag was still cold where the bottles set. I couldn't really tell if the bag was just cold or damp/cold.

[oldwetherman]

Personally, the issue of bladder versus bottle simplified down to one question. When you're really thirsty are you a sipper or a gulper? They both have their respective pros and cons. I realized that when I'm thirsty, gulping large amounts of water from a bottle quenched my thirst better than several smaller sips from a bladder.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Personally, the issue of bladder versus bottle simplified down to one question. When you're really thirsty are you a sipper or a gulper? They both have their respective pros and cons. I realized that when I'm thirsty, gulping large amounts of water from a bottle quenched my thirst better than several smaller sips from a bladder.
The issue there is that you should ideally be sipping frequently while hiking to prevent the need to gulp down a bunch of water at once, that's the purpose of using a camelbak. Stopping to gulp every hour or two on a hot day usually means that you are already getting dehydrated and it's probably affecting your endurance. Sure gulping down water might be more enjoyable, but it really isn't the better idea.

[tflaris]

I like camel bak's 2 liter because of the sip and walk and feature. That being said they are inconvenient to fill unless using a pump with a quick connect fittings.

I usually carry a smart water bottle for filling on the trail to avoid taking camel bak out.


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist

[Mtsman]

I use a 2L hydrapak bladder and one gatoraide bottle. I have a quick disconnect outside my bag right above my right shoulder and use a gravity filter to fill it up. This way I never have to take the bladder out of my bag (until cleaning it in the hostel). The Hydrapak bladder is nice for me because I can turn it inside out to clean it and dry it. I also hammock camp so I can clip my full backpack to the line and feed my tube through my hammock for sipping while i am inside (this also keeps my bag off the ground in case of rain and close for security). I use the gatoraide bottle to mix drinks in and have a spare liquid source if I run out of my hydrapak without knowing.

I have never had a bladder bust on me. I am sure it will happen at some point as I am not overly cautious with my gear but so far so good. I have had bladders crust up and mold up on me though (several times). I do blow back my water in freezing weather and I have had to use a lighter to unclog small areas of clog. If the whole line freezes you can put it inside your shirt to warm it up. you will know when its ready by the cold wet spot :~P

**Keep in mind** I drink a BUNCH of water. There is no way I could just do 32oz or even 64oz of water (I would be stopping every few miles) and my bag is not setup for balance of a liter on each side (only one side is low enough to grab a bottle out of). So this setup works for ME. That is why finding answers based off of other peoples preferences are so hard.

People would need to know:
How much water one drinks.
what kind of pack they have.
Do they mix drinks?
What water treatment they use.
What environment are they in?
How agile is the user (i.e. can they reach the bottle)?
Do they hike leisurely or hard rucking?

These are just some of the questions that would help find out if bladder or bottles are best for the user IMO. YMMV. HYOH.

[Mtsman]

Sorry, forgot about your burst or clog question. My line clogs, not bursts but I have ordered new line and customized mine made from the hardware store. I dont like the taste of most of the lines that come with the bladders. I have tried camelbaks, plats, hydrapak, and geigerrigs with the original lines and finally ended up with my own line from lowes. Hope this helps.

[Traveler]

I've used bladder systems for years and have not had a lot of problems with them. The worst problem I had was freezing, but that was solved with an insulating Camelbak. I tether the bite valve to the shoulder strap so I don't lose it by dragging it through cactus and brush, my packs are all designed to hold a bladder as well, so placement in the pack is not at issue. The only issues I have had with them is the drink tube freezing up once (before I knew there was insulation) and not having the top lid on correctly and water squeezed out of the bladder.

As far as determining how much water is left, having used these for a while I have a pretty accurate idea of where I am water wise depending on the distance I have traveled, type of terrain, and weather conditions. I like the flexibility a 3L bladder provides me, depending on where I am and what I am doing, I can take as little as one liter or as much as 3. I can fill the bladder using a Hiker Pro directly connected to the drinking tube, or will use a plastic bottle and a sawyer filter directly into the bladder opening. Having a buddy who uses bottles with a Sawyer Squeeze or Mini and I do not spend any more or less time filling the bladder to the level I want than he does his bottles.

[RadioFreq]

I carry two water bottles from some convenience store in the big cargo pockets on the outside of my pants/shorts. Very convenient. You can pull one out for a drink without breaking stride. For additional water I carry a 2L Platypus.

[Hosh]

The issue there is that you should ideally be sipping frequently while hiking to prevent the need to gulp down a bunch of water at once, that's the purpose of using a camelbak. Stopping to gulp every hour or two on a hot day usually means that you are already getting dehydrated and it's probably affecting your endurance. Sure gulping down water might be more enjoyable, but it really isn't the better idea.

I found bladders to be most useful in hot, dry conditions with infrequent water sources. If you're going to carry lots of water, best place in against your back.

Drinking more frequently to avoid dehydration is best, especially in a hot environment or a strenuous hike. They say "to eat" your water in the desert to avoid dehydration. Where water sources are prevalent, a bladder is over kill for me. They weight too much, are a pain to fill, require extra protection for leaks, and don't play well with drink mixes. In cold temperatures, all of the above plus freezing.

Nalgene is better for winter, but Cmoulder's idea for bubble wrap sounds pretty cool.