View Full Version : Karl Meltzer, 2016 AT record attempt
... and Jurek will be crewing. Just read it today. Can't get any better than that!
I hope he does it -- I still have a Speed Goat decal on my truck.
http://www.runnersworld.com/year-in-review/year-in-review-scott-jurek-searches-for-whats-next-after-appalachian-trail-record
For those unfamiliar with Speed Goat: http://karlmeltzer.com/
... and Jurek will be crewing. Just read it today. Can't get any better than that!
I hope he does it -- I still have a Speed Goat decal on my truck.
http://www.runnersworld.com/year-in-review/year-in-review-scott-jurek-searches-for-whats-next-after-appalachian-trail-record
yaaawwwwnnnnnn
Traveler
12-17-2015, 16:53
Looking to break the record that isn't a record seems like a broken record at times....
squeezebox
12-17-2015, 17:17
Looking to break the record that isn't a record seems like a broken record at times....
Touche, could not have said it better.
Lone Wolf
12-17-2015, 17:35
Looking to break the record that isn't a record seems like a broken record at times....
at least in your world
I'll be watching, hope he does well.
Last Call
12-17-2015, 18:58
And the whole world will be watching the celebration on top of Katadyn....
Cotton Terry
12-17-2015, 19:05
yaaawwwwnnnnnn
I could not have said it better, myself.
colorado_rob
12-17-2015, 19:07
Extremely cool ! Thanks for that link. Looking forward to following! I think the consensus reached last summer with SJ is that KM will probably go SOBO? I have a feeling, assuming KM stays healthy on his RECORD ATTEMPT (not sure why if he does it faster than JPD it wouldn't be a record???), that there will be a lot less drama when he approaches Springer... But who knows. Fun stuff!
If this brings about a yawn to anyone, I suggest not opening such threads. Just a thought.
rocketsocks
12-17-2015, 19:10
yaaawwwwnnnnnnyou spelled awesome wrong.
BirdBrain
12-17-2015, 19:12
He should go SoBo. Doesn't seem to be an issue on Springer.
Ooops. CR beat me to it. Apologies from this "cyber-hiker".
Lone Wolf
12-17-2015, 19:25
for those of you that don't like trail running or speed hiking, stay the hell outa here. go post on the women's forum like you tend to do
colorado_rob
12-17-2015, 20:39
He should go SoBo. Doesn't seem to be an issue on Springer.
Ooops. CR beat me to it. Apologies from this "cyber-hiker".If I ever implied that you were only a cyber-hiker, I apologize.
BirdBrain
12-17-2015, 21:01
If I ever implied that you were only a cyber-hiker, I apologize.
No need. Bashing myself. Feeling cooped up. Haven't seen a trail in months.
squeezebox
12-17-2015, 21:51
After the foolishness of Scott Jurek, the ATC should seriously consider not allowing it. I'm sure it could be arranged.
How on earth could banning be arranged? The ATC doesn't have that authority. Even if they did why would they do it? A new record is actually a great opportunity to show the public that mistakes can be fixed.
HYOH!
And the whole world will be watching the celebration on top of Katadyn....
Better be a small one - not much room on the top of one of those filters ;)
After the foolishness of Scott Jurek, the ATC should seriously consider not allowing it. I'm sure it could be arranged.
Sooooooo should there be a minimum number of days required to do a thru hike. Hike it faster and the hiking police ticket you. Really????? It still just walking, just a bit faster. HMHDI
Alligator
12-18-2015, 01:53
yaaawwwwnnnnnn
Looking to break the record that isn't a record seems like a broken record at times....
Touche, could not have said it better.
I could not have said it better, myself.
After the foolishness of Scott Jurek, the ATC should seriously consider not allowing it. I'm sure it could be arranged.
If speed hiking is not one of your interests put this particular subforum on ignore rather than dropping churlish posts into the threads here. You are not trapped in a room and forced to listen to the conversation. You have to open the thread to read it.
I don't have any interest in golf. If people nearby are having a conversation about it, I don't step into the group to announce I don't like golf. It would be boorish.
squeezebox
12-18-2015, 02:17
If some one does idiot stuff like Scott did, maybe they should be prevented. BSP could easily prevent him access to Katahdin. You don't think they are capable of such action? I think they just might do it. A GSMNP ranger detaining him for 24 hrs. on suspicion of whatever and then refusing his permit. All of that could easily be arranged. Fair or not ?? Who cares. Piss of the powers that be and suffer the consequenses. Talk to any black person about what it's like "driving while black" Harasesment by the cops happens all the time. Easy to set up.
. A GSMNP ranger detaining him for 24 hrs. on suspicion of whatever and then refusing his permit. All of that could easily be arranged. Fair or not ?? Who cares. Piss of the powers that be and suffer the consequenses. Harasesment by the cops happens all the time. Easy to set up.
you have many like minded individuals around the world - N Korea for one
WingedMonkey
12-18-2015, 06:55
I don't have any interest in golf. If people nearby are having a conversation about it, I don't step into the group to announce I don't like golf. It would be boorish.
Like if someone post a thread about how to hang food the proper way I shouldn't announce that I sleep with my food?
Or if someone posts a thread about how to filter water, I shouldn't point out that I don't like the idea?
OK, I agree.
:D
Pedaling Fool
12-18-2015, 07:17
If speed hiking is not one of your interests put this particular subforum on ignore rather than dropping churlish posts into the threads here....I was pretty sure this was a typo, thing Gator probably meant to type childish, but I looked it up and now it's my word of the day:)
I'm guessing KM will most likely do a SOBO.
Pedaling Fool
12-18-2015, 07:23
I was pretty sure this was a typo, thing Gator probably meant to type childish, but I looked it up and now it's my word of the day:)
Typing about a typo and I made a typo...should have been, thinking:o
Offshore
12-18-2015, 07:38
If speed hiking is not one of your interests put this particular subforum on ignore rather than dropping churlish posts into the threads here. You are not trapped in a room and forced to listen to the conversation. You have to open the thread to read it.
I don't have any interest in golf. If people nearby are having a conversation about it, I don't step into the group to announce I don't like golf. It would be boorish.
Wow, just wow... So let me get this straight - differing opinions are not allowed by the moderators here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your own personal opinion, it is grounds for a scolding? The posts you cited are not off-topic, and are certainly not churlish. There's no vulgarity, no snarkiness, no mean-spiritedness. They are just opinions which are just as valid as any other.
I don't have any interest in golf. If people nearby are having a conversation about it, I don't step into the group to announce I don't like golf. It would be boorish.
what if you did like golf but thought the current state of the game was negative and overexposure and repetition of certain aspects of it were making it boring? not allowed to comment on that?
Traveler
12-18-2015, 08:19
Alligator is right, this is a thread/forum about running on the AT and not part of the general forum. It appears on my list along with most all the other new posts in various topic areas, which is why it popped up here and I should have checked the origin.
That said, since I was attributed as being churlish I should clarify it was not my intent to be churlish, but to play on words related to the stated goal of the "Elite Runner" (Runners World title not mine) who claimed he was after the "record" which we all know does not exist but kinda does, sorta. I apologize for the word play and am properly chastened.
Pedaling Fool did have a good point about the "word of the day". To continue on that theme, add "Quixotic" to todays word of the day given the stated position to dissenting opinion. Should be interesting to see how that will be managed across the board. :D
Totally fascinating audio interview with Meltzer about his failed 2008 and 2014 AT record attempts at MarathonTalk/talk-ultra (episode 70). It's about a 40 min interview that focuses on the 2014 effort. He talks a lot about how difficult certain sections are, how the attempt requires 14-16 hr days, being constantly sleep deprived, and the huge respect he has for Jenn Davis and the plan she put together to get the record ("She was up at 4:45am every day and out at 5:10; me, it took me an hour and freaking half just to get on the trail!"). Just my take, but it seems clear that he wasn't able to stop all of the physical demands and injuries from becoming insurmountable mental barriers. Half through VA, he was about 40 miles behind Davis' time, which would have required him to do multiple 55-mile days, he hadn't been able to put together three consecutive 50 milers, so the mental factors again knocked him out. He said that the AT is "the monkey on my back," but if he can't do it this time, then he'll toss in the towel on an AT attempt. He also talked bluntly about crew issues and the difficulties they face. If you love running and ultras, it's a really fascinating interview and worth the time to listen.
Pedaling Fool
12-18-2015, 10:19
Good talk, thanks John B. These ultra-marathoners doing this is really much like a 100-meter sprinter wanting to win marathons, as crazy as that sounds. Although, his team missing him five times really did hurt.
Just Bill
12-18-2015, 10:40
The words "record attempt" are in the title of the thread.
Even if you fail to realize what forum it's in.
At the very least if you have such strong opinions on the subject, stands to reason you are familiar with it to begin with.
If we're using obscure words- There are several topics on this site we've set aside in their own sub-forum to avoid being at loggerheads.
Or if you're feeling obtuse-
Don't piss in my cheerios and I won't shat in your corn flakes.
One part of this story that is uber cool is Jurek crewing the attempt. That shows that the interest in pushing the limits is higher than even personal achievement. Jurek did a great video chat at the Gathering. I had a positive impression of him prior but very positive afterward.
looking forward to to following this attempt.
BirdBrain
12-18-2015, 11:15
Wow, just wow... So let me get this straight - differing opinions are not allowed by the moderators here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your own personal opinion, it is grounds for a scolding? The posts you cited are not off-topic, and are certainly not churlish. There's no vulgarity, no snarkiness, no mean-spiritedness. They are just opinions which are just as valid as any other.
Be careful. You are treading on dangerous ground.
I am certain I will run afoul of what is tolerated and what is not... if the Speed Goat runs afoul of the law. I have no reason to believe he will. Therefore, I hope to enjoy this attempt as much as I did Anish's.
As to the previous attempt. I was on the edge of my seat watching Scott. When he got to the Kennebec, I was all but certain the record was his (and I stated as much in the main thread at that point). I am still blown away by what he accomplished. I have never said one syllable that suggests his feat was anything less than super human. He deserves that record. I would challenge anyone to find one post that I made that suggests otherwise.
I thoroughly enjoyed following Anish's attempt. I wish there was more of a post hike discussion about that "walk". I suspect I know why there has not been one.
I enjoy all such spectacles. The remote gets quite warm during the Olympics. We watch as much of it as we can. I love seeing the human body pushed to new limits. I like pushing my limits. I live vicariously through every incredible feat that I observe. I am like a little kid that looks up to the fireman or astronaut.
Yes, I will be glued to my seat. I will be cheering for him (now that JPD is no longer the fastest). I cheered for Scott (look it up in the threads) until the crap storm.
I do not grasp the rabid defense of those that do it wrong. I do not grasp why Anish is not celebrated more. Grasping that dynamic and realizing that reality, I am anxious about my ability to follow another test of human endurance and ability.
Yes... I am very much interested. No.. I am not interested in listening to people defend violations. Hopefully, that does not occur. Hopefully, if it happens I can keep my mouth shut (very doubtful)... because some opinions are tolerated and some are not.
Go Karl, go! Have you started yet?
Wet Foot
12-18-2015, 12:07
After the foolishness of Scott Jurek, the ATC should seriously consider not allowing it. I'm sure it could be arranged.
Squeezebox just doesn't seem to get the whole America-freedom thing. You don't like it, SB? Who cares
Just Bill
12-18-2015, 12:27
Blame Earl Shaffer.
He started this whole FKT nonsense.
The trail was never intended to be hiked in one shot, even completing the whole trail is a dubious goal contradictory to the reason it was created.
MacKaye and Avery didn't even get along. I hear it stems from the fact that Avery made the mistake of walking the whole trail, while MacKaye mainly wanted to build shelters to stay at and discuss the trail.
Thru-hiking should be banned.
squeezebox
12-18-2015, 12:42
Squeezebox just doesn't seem to get the whole America-freedom thing. You don't like it, SB? Who cares
Actually I don't. I believe that 1st and foremost a person needs to be a responsable member of society. Then freedoms can kick in. You do not have a right to step on other people to get/do what you want. Jurek proved his irresponability. I do not trust him. Do you think Baxter does?
BirdBrain
12-18-2015, 12:44
Blame Earl Shaffer.
He started this whole FKT nonsense.
The trail was never intended to be hiked in one shot, even completing the whole trail is a dubious goal contradictory to the reason it was created.
MacKaye and Avery didn't even get along. I hear it stems from the fact that Avery made the mistake of walking the whole trail, while MacKaye mainly wanted to build shelters to stay at and discuss the trail.
Thru-hiking should be banned.
Ban Nascar first.
Pedaling Fool
12-18-2015, 13:10
Actually I don't. I believe that 1st and foremost a person needs to be a responsable member of society. Then freedoms can kick in. You do not have a right to step on other people to get/do what you want. Jurek proved his irresponability. I do not trust him. Do you think Baxter does?This thread is about a shot at the record by Karl, it's not about SJ.
Traveler
12-18-2015, 13:14
Actually I don't. I believe that 1st and foremost a person needs to be a responsable member of society. Then freedoms can kick in. You do not have a right to step on other people to get/do what you want. Jurek proved his irresponability. I do not trust him. Do you think Baxter does?
Just defining what a responsible person in society is would be a challenge. However, to give this a different light, who better to support and help this attempt than someone who screwed the pooch doing it?
Alligator
12-18-2015, 13:24
Wow, just wow... So let me get this straight - differing opinions are not allowed by the moderators here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your own personal opinion, it is grounds for a scolding? The posts you cited are not off-topic, and are certainly not churlish. There's no vulgarity, no snarkiness, no mean-spiritedness. They are just opinions which are just as valid as any other.I will direct you first to the sticky (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/52676-Trail-Running-and-Speed-Hiking-(sticky)) for this sub-forum. This subforum is one of several we have set up with specific rules of operation. We have these rules because examples such as what have just occurred in this thread were rampant whenever this topic came up.
The definition of rude is behavior that does not conform to what society says would be polite or good manners or inappropriate subjects of discussion (yourdictionary.com). Let me translate the opening post for some of you.
Karl Meltzer, 2016 AT record attempt… and Jurek will be crewing. Just read it today. Can’t get any better than that! John B is enthusiastic about trail running and looking forward to this event.
I hope he does it -- I still have a Speed Goat decal on my truck. [Speed Goat is Karl’s nickname]. John B is rooting for him. He is a big fan, he placed this trail runner’s decal on his truck. **** like that doesn’t come off easy, it’s practically permanent [it’s still there]. That’s pretty hardcore really.
So, John B expressed genuine enthusiasm about the event, and then there were yawns and comments about a record not existing. The comments were not in line with the stated rules of the forum (inappropriate subject of discussion). Yawning in response to someone speaking is considered impolite, deliberately typing out a sound that would not be heard is most certainly rude. It is extremely sad that I am forced to defend my comment in regard to such a blatant act of disrespect. Are there no bounds of civility left within us, no modicum of polite discourse that we may, perchance engage in when the hiking gab strikes our fancy?
Alas, enough said about this churlishness. One can respectfully debate the merits of trail running outside of this particular subforum if one wishes to.
*Explanation by AT Traveler noted as well.
If Jurek celebration was illegal( and he paid for it both morally and financially) ,it has nothing to do with Meltzer's FKT attempt. We need to respect that he has something to prove ,either to himself or others.
Meltzer has had two more run for FKT previously and as far as I am concerned he did not break any rule while trying..
FKT exist , even if you don't like it or believe it, it exist in some hikers mind and I don't see any harm done by runners or hikers for it.
This sub forum and couple of others have extra rules, we either respect them or we can discuss the need to change them in another thread. Breaking the rules of forum to talk about Jurek breaking the rules is let's say ironic.
BirdBrain
12-18-2015, 13:57
This thread is about a shot at the record by Karl, it's not about SJ.
Amen. Now let's hear about Karl. The ignorant (me) desire knowledge. Any pre-attempt tidbits to share? I know little about the man.
Odd Man Out
12-18-2015, 15:06
...Thru-hiking should be banned.
Ban Nascar first.
How about we just combine the two? Hikers have to keep turning left so they don't get anywhere (or do they keep turning right? I never watch NASCAR).
Amen. Now let's hear about Karl. The ignorant (me) desire knowledge. Any pre-attempt tidbits to share? I know little about the man.
I'll take a stab at it but I'm working from just a handful of sources. Karl is another Western runner. He has more +100 mile wins than anyone. He knows how to suffer for days and weeks on end -- he ran the Pony Express trail (Missouri to Sacramento, +2,000 miles) in 40 days. Unlike Davis and Jurek who are vegetarians, Speed Goat is a beer-swilling, Red Bull chugging, bacon/hamburger eating machine. He will almost certainly run southbound. He will pay more attention to taking care of his feet than before and not let blisters go from bad to worse. I gather from the audio interview that he will put a big emphasis on assembling a top notch crew. And from what he said, this will probably be the last attempt at the AT. Maybe most importantly, and from the audio and Scott Livingston's blog, I'm pretty sure he learned a lot from previous 2 attempts and from studying Davis' and Jurek's records. He's a really smart guy, this won't be a haphazard effort, so barring injury, I'd bet he'll break the record.
For those who wish to debate merits of FKT attempts, I suggest posting your concerns in the Trail issues forum. Thx
BirdBrain
12-18-2015, 16:42
Thank you John B.
Now I am worried Scott might try to feed Karl something healthy and mess his system up.
Just Bill
12-18-2015, 16:45
Amen. Now let's hear about Karl. The ignorant (me) desire knowledge. Any pre-attempt tidbits to share? I know little about the man.
This will be his third attempt.
His first was off-pace but he still finished the hike. 54 days and change.
His second ended with foot issues developed during a wet start.
As mentioned, he's known as an Ultrarunner- which mainly means he's a hiker.
He's best known for the Speedgoat 50k, and for winning more 100 milers than any other person.
His first attempt was circus style, he didn't like that and skipped the press and such on his second try; choosing to self-sponsor his trip.
Regarding supported efforts... I'll have to give that interview a listen, but seems fairly clear that crew choice is an increasingly critical as the time slowly drops.
Not sure if Karl is married, but in a somewhat neato fact- Jen and Scott were crewed by their spouses. And much more personal opinion than fact- after the train of individually inspirational athletes Scott wrangled up to help push him through his thru; my admiration for Brew Davis as the greatest crew chief of all time remains higher than ever.
Hopefully Karl will take a good hard look at Anish's hike as well. Perhaps it's only because of my personal preferences, but I have long felt that Aug/Sept SOBO is the ideal time to make a run for it. Without a doubt maine junction to big K has wreaked the most havoc on busted and successful attempts both, including Karl's. Makes the most sense by far to surrender to this fact and hit this part of the trail in the best possible season.
A best of luck from me for sure.
Just another hiker out to see how deeply they can go- whatever that means to each of us.
Just Bill
12-18-2015, 17:24
One part of this story that is uber cool is Jurek crewing the attempt. That shows that the interest in pushing the limits is higher than even personal achievement. Jurek did a great video chat at the Gathering. I had a positive impression of him prior but very positive afterward.
looking forward to to following this attempt.
outside of the AT, Jurek is pretty well known as being a nice guy.
Hey- what do you get when an Ultra-runner retires? A backpacker.
I have a feeling that dude will be around a bit, and in the end we'll be glad he stopped by.
I still think the coolest thing about FKT's is that everyone is connected to everyone. Which is true of every "new" sport I suppose, but interesting still.
I can think of folks here who have met or know one person personally, and other than Ward perhaps, can't think of a single person in AT FKT circles who has not interacted with or been friends with a fellow FKT participant.
I know for a fact that;
Horton talked and/or ran with Jen and Matt.
Jen talked with Andrew Thompson.
Jurek talks with Jen.
Karl paced Scott, Scott will pace Karl.
Matt paced during her FKT; Jen, Brew and Charley cheered Matt on Springer.
Anish talked with Matt before and after her hike.
Joey and Greyson- good fellas with near misses- both talked with Matt.
And on...
Lone Wolf and others could likely point out more folks as well. More connections and webs of friendship.
In general these folks put in far more trail time than any hiker, in general they care very deeply for the trail.
I'd go so far as to say most are most comfortable on the trail.
It may be worth a spare thought to consider that it is exceedingly rare for a d-bag to complete the trail at all, and apparently impossible for any less than a fine human being to successfully complete an FKT on a big trail. Yar there is some sibling rivalry in there, some pushing and pulling. But there is more support, bouncing ideas, and mutual respect than anything.
It's very hard for someone to beat you in a competition against yourself.
It'd be very cool if we took a step back and learned from these "competitors" a bit more about what the real meaning of "tramily" is.
I'm not going to copy/paste what Just Bill wrote above, but he's spot on correct.
And yes, Karl's married. To Ms. Speedgoat.
BTW, when I wrote "beer swilling," I was writing tongue in cheek. I just read that he's certainly not averse to drinking a beer here and there at appropriate times.
Offshore
12-19-2015, 06:58
Further debate, please move to Trails Issues forum.
I wish Karl luck. I have met and ran with him on several occasions. A great guy who has roots to the AT.
TJ aka Teej
12-20-2015, 20:48
I guarantee that Speed Goat will not;
Have his corporate sponsor violate agreements made in advance with Baxter State Park.
Have his three support drivers ticketed for speeding on the Baxter State Park Tote road.
Have his three support vehicles ticketed for entering a closed parking lot.
Sign out his group of 22 as "12".
Invent a story claiming that a Ranger, posted to ensure his group follow Park rules, said booze was OK.
Hold a 30 minute press conference at the summit sign.
Have one film crew ticketed for violating the terms of their permit.
Have his other two film crews ticketed for filming after permits were denied.
Try to claim the only thing done wrong was a sip of champagne.
And certainly won't go on a months long PR tour crying he was being picked on.
MuddyWaters
12-20-2015, 20:54
I think Anish did the perfect FKT.
Keep it to yourself.
Keep it out of media.
Tell us about it later.
Announcing months in advance, and who will crew for you...is intended for MEDIA. period.
Bad.
Self promotion
Lone Wolf
12-20-2015, 21:47
I guarantee that Speed Goat will not;
Have his corporate sponsor violate agreements made in advance with Baxter State Park.
Have his three support drivers ticketed for speeding on the Baxter State Park Tote road.
Have his three support vehicles ticketed for entering a closed parking lot.
Sign out his group of 22 as "12".
Invent a story claiming that a Ranger, posted to ensure his group follow Park rules, said booze was OK.
Hold a 30 minute press conference at the summit sign.
Have one film crew ticketed for violating the terms of their permit.
Have his other two film crews ticketed for filming after permits were denied.
Try to claim the only thing done wrong was a sip of champagne.
And certainly won't go on a months long PR tour crying he was being picked on.
take it elsewhere and quit YOUR cryin'
BirdBrain
12-20-2015, 22:17
Edit: Looks like a post is missing. MW, your post is not snarky.
The 2 previous posts are quite snarky. Laying the snarkiness aside, I have to agree to the extent that a thread about Karl's attempt should not be a continuous review of the past. Even I am snarked out on that subject. (I like that word and the chance to misuse it a few times).
Time to let it go. Let's talk about Karl. Looking forward to his attempt.
Nice summary though TJ :D
He should go SoBo. Doesn't seem to be an issue on Springer.
Ooops. CR beat me to it. Apologies from this "cyber-hiker".
Sooner or later there'll be separate records for south and north. (or should be)
firesign
12-21-2015, 07:21
Karl Meltzer is going to attempt to break an AT speed record and people are criticizing this!
None of those speaking negative of this man or what he achieves can even walk in his shadow - worlds apart - ALWAYS know that.
Peace and Good Will to all Men (and Women)
Traveler
12-21-2015, 07:34
For clarity, its an attempt to break an fastest known time (FKT). The ATC does not have any recognized speed records, which you are correct in being worlds apart.
TJ aka Teej
12-21-2015, 16:40
I think Anish did the perfect FKT.
Keep it to yourself.
Keep it out of media.
Tell us about it later.
Anish is a class act all the way - her self supported record is The Record.
Lone Wolf
12-22-2015, 10:19
her self supported record is The Record.
yeah for the self-supported record
MuddyWaters
12-22-2015, 11:54
yeah for the self-supported record
I think hiker respect self supported more.
JPD got great respect from hikers for her supported thru....because she was first and foremost a hiker...as well as a great human being.
I dont think that respect is automatically extended to professional ultra athletes. They need to earn it IF they want it. Someone recently did a poor job at earning it, or maybe they just blew it at the end.
Then again, it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks either, except that FKT are granted review by peers. The average hiker is not those peers, the other FKT attempters are.
We aint nothing but spectators, But we ARE the ones they want to sell the book deal to.
I bought JPDs books
I bought Matt Kirks
I would buy one by Anish
I wouldnt buy the ultra runners...UNLESS they carried a pack. But a whole larger group of runners would, that wouldnt buy the above.
I think hiker respect self supported more.
I can't agree with this more. Yes, I admire the pure race aspect of runners but the purity of self supported gains more respect from me. YMMV HYOH
For all that had informative posts about this subject, Thank you! I didn't know near as much as I do after reading this thread.
Heliotrope
12-28-2015, 03:10
Anish is a class act all the way - her self supported record is The Record.
Amen. Perhaps runners are more comfortable with supported efforts and backpackers with unsupported. Either way is demanding and admirable. As a backpacker I am more excited by Anish's feat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jersey joe
05-13-2016, 15:17
Any word on Speedgoat Karl Meltzer attempting the AT speed record this year?
I hold one of the slowest records for doing the AT: 40 years and 4 months.
I wouldn't have it any other way. The slower you go, the more memories you get.
Starchild
05-13-2016, 19:23
And the whole world will be watching the celebration on top of Katadyn....
Where is his go fund me site to help pay for the fine for the celebration.
jersey joe
05-13-2016, 19:42
I just saw this on Karl's twitter, which indicates an early August start date?!?
Speedgoat Karl @Speedgoatkarl (https://twitter.com/Speedgoatkarl) May 5 (https://twitter.com/Speedgoatkarl/status/728391487910600704)Midvale, UT (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3Aea98531b10405c6a)
3 months till post time....exactly. 2188 miles is not that far @HOKAONEONE (https://twitter.com/HOKAONEONE) @redbull (https://twitter.com/redbull)
He also posted on facebook today that he's going to have support from Jurek at some point.
I know some folks here don't like the record attempts, but I for one hope he is wearing a spot type device so we can follow his journey this summer.
Lone Wolf
05-13-2016, 22:49
I know some folks here don't like the record attempts, but I for one hope he is wearing a spot type device so we can follow his journey this summer.
the "some folks here" that don't like it can stick it. this forum is about records
colorado_rob
05-13-2016, 22:56
the "some folks here" that don't like it can stick it. this forum is about recordsYep! It absolutely boggles my simple mind why people in the speed hiking forum bad-mouth these record attempts, or brag about how slow they go and claim their way is better. THIS IS A SPPED HIKING FORUM! Go Karl!
I was going to post that reminder...
Please refer to this sticky before posting an anti-speed hiking sentiment. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/52676-Trail-Running-and-Speed-Hiking-(sticky)?p=873204&viewfull=1#post873204)
The Trail Issues forum is a better place to bring up your "concerns"...
Some posts here are reminiscent of the riduclous negative endless loop debating of the merits of UL backpacking on the UL Forum or inappropriate rude posts on the Woman's Forum. Don't like the topic, can't abide by the Sticky, can't adhere to specific Forum rules don't post in these Forums.
Traveler
05-15-2016, 05:01
Since the thread is "speed hiking", it seems to me discussion on the differences of unofficial records set by unassisted speed hiking and assisted running would not be out of line. Both seem to have developed a place in the culture and will likely increase as more and more runners decide to tackle the feat. Not running down one over the other, frankly I don't much care how people spend their time but there are differences between the two that are legitimate discussion.
Christoph
05-15-2016, 10:55
For what it's worth, I think it's pretty cool. I know when I tried to thru hike, that was really hard on me and I ended up throwing in the towel about 1/3 of the way though (until next years re-attempt :banana). Can't imagine the planning, training, and effort that goes into a speed record attempt over this type of terrain. Not really my thing (mainly because there's no way I could do it). Good luck and hope he makes it. I met a guy on my attempt last year that was trying to do the entire trail in 63 days or something like that. Everyone in the shelter (we were in the Smokies), wished him good luck and not 1 person rolled an eye at him. That's what it's about folks, teamwork no matter how fast or slow you go.
The standard should be LNT. Do whatever you want out there if you do it within the ethics of LNT.
MuddyWaters
05-18-2016, 13:39
Hope he fails.
Cause if he succeeds us older guys cant use age as an excuse so much anymore.:eek:
In all seriousness it will be entertaining to follow.
Greenlight
05-18-2016, 17:25
I went to high school with one guy who ended up being an ultra-runner. Can't say as I'd ever want to put myself through such torment, but to each his own hike/run/stumble. I do like living in a world where there are souls chuggy enough to even attempt stuff like this. Great good luck to you, Sir.
... and Jurek will be crewing. Just read it today. Can't get any better than that!
I hope he does it -- I still have a Speed Goat decal on my truck.
http://www.runnersworld.com/year-in-review/year-in-review-scott-jurek-searches-for-whats-next-after-appalachian-trail-record
For those unfamiliar with Speed Goat: http://karlmeltzer.com/
If we concur on the "philosophy" of HYOH then this is great stuff, and personally, I think that its totally amazing being able to do 46 miles per day or more on the AT. For those of us who have been out there, my average is 12-13 and it is ROUGH MILES most days.
Heading to NH and Maine in a few weeks, Franconia to Rangely, 10 MPD target which will be hard I am certain of it. THINK ABOUT 5X THAT EFFORT.
This is really impressive human endeavor.
Honestly, much of the trail is rather mundane, wish that my old 57 year old body and bones could travel faster in certain areas.
lambsknoll
05-18-2016, 20:59
Speaking of golf, ahem, Karl broke the 12 hour speed golf record the othe day. 230 holes in 12 hours covering 100k.
He is one fit dude!
Karl came through Roanoke a couple of months ago and took a little time to do a Q&A at a local running store. He's definitely planning for an August start (IIRC, that was partly because he's the RD for his ultra in July, partly for the cooler weather).
capehiker
05-22-2016, 22:31
I'm thru hiking right now. Having suffered thru GA, I think it's amazing and a testiment to the physical ability it takes to put in such an effort.
Looking to break the record that isn't a record seems like a broken record at times....
Come again?
rocketsocks
05-23-2016, 08:45
Speaking of golf, ahem, Karl broke the 12 hour speed golf record the othe day. 230 holes in 12 hours covering 100k.
He is one fit dude!whud he shoot?
Not sure on that, but here's a bit more info:
http://running.competitor.com/2016/05/news/ultrarunner-karl-meltzer-plays-230-holes-of-golf-in-12-hours_149986
jersey joe
07-15-2016, 08:36
Recent Article on Karl's attempt this year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/trip-ideas/adventure-travel/man-attempting-to-break-appalachian-trail-record
Also, it looks like this thing will be tracked as well as something like this can possibly be tracked: http://atrecord.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1
I just happened to be at Mountain Crossings (Walasi-Yi) when Karl came through on his 2007 attempt. The attempt had gone poorly, he was days behind schedule with no hope of finishing, and obviously dejected. Given all of that, he sat down and the crew went to work on the nastiest pair of feet I've ever seen. After rehydrating and eating a quick meal he stood up and headed accross the street to start the climb of Blood Mountain with the intention of finishing at Springer the next morning.
I know the subject of FKT attempts gets things stirred up around here sometimes. Seeing Karl's determination to complete what he started in the face of much adversity gave me some insight into one big similarity between his FKT attempt and the trip experienced by a traditional thru hiker. We all just want to hike the entire trail. His experience is obviously different from ours, essentially one long very fast slackpack. But, no one can doubt the HUGE amount of determined effort required to complete a challenge of this nature.
I'll be rooting for him to succeed...
MuddyWaters
07-15-2016, 12:53
These articles are penned by Red Bull, obviously a sponsor, as the logos can be seen in photos .
Commercialization
carouselambra
07-15-2016, 12:54
Recent Article on Karl's attempt this year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/trip-ideas/adventure-travel/man-attempting-to-break-appalachian-trail-record
Also, it looks like this thing will be tracked as well as something like this can possibly be tracked: http://atrecord.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1
I checked out the website. Estimating 690 hours of Grateful Dead. That is a lot of drums and space.
LIhikers
07-19-2016, 18:56
My wife Kathy and I will be hiking the AT in early August.
We better stay in the slow lane so Karl doesn't run us over :D
Great article in Runners World on Speed Goat:
http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/ultrarunner-attempting-to-break-scott-jureks-appalachian-trail-record
dudeijuststarted
07-25-2016, 08:28
Great article in Runners World on Speed Goat:
http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/ultrarunner-attempting-to-break-scott-jureks-appalachian-trail-record
"While Jurek chose to start in Georgia and head north, Meltzer will go south, saying that he believes the first week through Maine and New Hampshire is the hardest section of the trail."
Maine and New Hampshire in a week? I don't even know what to say about that.
He won't finish NH in the first week, but he should be well into it. I'd guess more like 10 days to the VT border.
He won't finish NH in the first week, but he should be well into it. I'd guess more like 10 days to the VT border.
My guess would be somewhere near Gorham at the end of Day 7.
colorado_rob
07-25-2016, 11:52
My guess would be somewhere near Gorham at the end of Day 7.My guess (and it's only a guess!) is more like near the middle of the whites in 7 days, but we'll see.
A lot of ME is pretty easy-peasy for guys like Karl when they are fresh; once off of Katahdin (remember, the clock starts at the top, not when he starts up Katahdin) he should cruise the 100-mile and then some, but of course he'll have to slow way down in southern ME, but wild guess, the NH border by end of day 5.
MuddyWaters
07-25-2016, 12:00
Been dry yr, thats gonna work in his favor this time , if it holds
Very cool website where you can follow his run!
http://atrecord.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1
Very cool website where you can follow his run!
http://atrecord.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1
I didn't see where you could follow his run (I probably have to look harder) but from the map they show it looks like Karl will be avoiding a lot of summits :-)
35566
Speaking of golf, ahem, Karl broke the 12 hour speed golf record the othe day. 230 holes in 12 hours covering 100k.
He is one fit dude!
I played 36 holes in 1 hour 45 minutes. Two best rounds of my life. I was in a cart:banana
When does his attempt start? I enjoyed following last year, even though I'm not a runner.
Somewhere in the August 4-7 window.
When does his attempt start? I enjoyed following last year, even though I'm not a runner.
I didn't see where you could follow his run (I probably have to look harder) but from the map they show it looks like Karl will be avoiding a lot of summits :-)
35566
It is my understanding that the website will become "active" with updates, etc. when he starts the attempt.
wannahike
07-28-2016, 12:46
I just listened to this podcast today. https://iancorless.org/2016/07/21/episode-115-jason-schlarb-speedgoat-karl-elisabet-barnes/
Karl's interview is up first so no searching.
lambsknoll
07-28-2016, 14:29
To Speedgoat:
Long distance runner, what you standin' there for?
Get up, get out, get out of the door
Your playin' cold music on the barroom floor
Drowned in your laughter and dead to the core.
There's a dragon with matches that's loose on the town
Takes a whole pail of water just to cool him down.
Fire! fire on the mountain!
Almost ablaze still you don't feel the heat
It takes all you got just to stay on the beat.
You say it's a livin', we all gotta eat
But you're here alone, there's no one to compete.
If mercy's a business, i wish it for you
More than just ashes when your dreams come true.
Fire! fire on the mountain!
Long distance runner, what you holdin' out for?
Caught in slow motion in a dash for the door.
The flame from your stage has now spread to the floor
You gave all you had. why you want to give more?
The more that you give, the more it will take
To the thin line beyond which you really can't fake.
Fire! fire on the mountain!
I wish Speedgoat good luck! I think there will be very minimal impact on the trail. I think BSP won't even notice him. I think a supported FKT is a very interesting undertaking. We can learn a lot about nutrition and the challenges of certain trail sections by watching this hike. I think an unsupported FKT is even more interesting. Matt Kirk and Annish are my heroes! I'm 42 and did my own little FKT a couple weeks ago. Damascus to Pearisburg in 5 days. 30 mile days puts one into a an awesome head space! I'm in withdrawl and can't wait to get back out there ASAP!
best of luck to speed goat for sure!
and you picked a real nice section for pulling thirty mile days, no doubt about that... good job on knocking that out, and agreeing with you on the getting back out is never soon enough!
thirty-ish mile days give me tingles, smiles, and make me happy
u.w.
Psyched Karl is going for this again. I met him during his 2008 attempt and he's a really cool guy. I'm thinking he might pass me when I'm on the southern part of the LT next month, would be cool to give him a high five on his way through :)
Just Bill
07-29-2016, 08:27
I wish Speedgoat good luck! I think there will be very minimal impact on the trail. I think BSP won't even notice him. I think a supported FKT is a very interesting undertaking. We can learn a lot about nutrition and the challenges of certain trail sections by watching this hike. I think an unsupported FKT is even more interesting. Matt Kirk and Annish are my heroes! I'm 42 and did my own little FKT a couple weeks ago. Damascus to Pearisburg in 5 days. 30 mile days puts one into a an awesome head space! I'm in withdrawl and can't wait to get back out there ASAP!
Congrats on your trip!
Something few get the chance to appreciate and understand. Matt Kirk summed it up best, "Fast, Light, & FREE"
Light is key. Coming out of Damascus on the Creeper Trail I got mistaken for a "day hiker" because of my wee little pack. That felt good. 7.5lb base on this one and I carried a way-too-heavy for the heat 40 deg quilt.
For me, it ain't about faster, just longer days. Dark to dark.
Fortunate to met Karl yesterday afternoon around mile marker 39. i'm finishing up a 6 1/2 year section hike of the trail this weekend. Iceman
The link http://atrecord.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1 was working but it seems to be broken now...hmmmmm
Edit: Found it http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-mobile/p/1
jersey joe
08-05-2016, 07:13
Fortunate to met Karl yesterday afternoon around mile marker 39. i'm finishing up a 6 1/2 year section hike of the trail this weekend. Iceman
So, did he start his hike yet or was he just scoping out the trail? This would be the first confirmation that he started...though I was under the impression that real time tracking was in the works.
So, did he start his hike yet or was he just scoping out the trail? This would be the first confirmation that he started...though I was under the impression that real time tracking was in the works.
Nothing shows on the tracking website yet: http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1
I did have some trouble getting into it through and link posted earlier in this thread. I finally got in by typing in atrun.redbull.com.
gravityman
08-05-2016, 14:29
If I remember right, last time he did this he swore he wouldn't do a 'big media' even because of all the flack he got distracted him from the walking. Wonder if he is delaying the info by a good amount.
Just Bill
08-05-2016, 15:06
Summarizing a few interviews (posted here above I believe)-
He said roughly 8/4-8/9 was a window to start depending on weather.
There was a plan to do a practice run on the first leg of the trip- so likely any spotting is in relation to that.
While they are using a spot tracker to document the hike- they will not be using real time tracking (like the Jurker did).
Besides privacy, I believe he mentioned in a podcast interview (talk ultra?) that both he, the ATC and other involved agreed that while documentation and tracking is important for verification of the record; real time tracking was not necessary and potentially bad for the trail.
I got the gist that while "big media" is important for financial and manpower (some pro's provided by Redbull for support); on a day to day basis the goal is to treat it a bit more like any other hiker would. Seemed the balance of promotion and what he got in exchange was the main goal.
So I would expect updates on progress and other blurbs- but would not expect any real time tracking.
On the plus side- going sobo- if he doesn't do well to the VT/Mass border- we'll have a pretty good idea if it will happen or not.
I personally think that a JPD type level of performance on the central and southern halves is reasonable, but overall Karl seems to favor a more steady output and indicated that he has to hold steady and on pace up north.
Both Matt Kirk and JPD went fairly slow (relative to their linear average) up North and made up ground on the rest of the trail. Course they are both Asheville area kids for what that is worth.
Scott got hurt down south, so it's hard to say what his dailies might have revealed if he was healthy all the way regarding steady pacing versus hitting it hard when you feel you can.
Karl expressed a believe in the "natural speed limit" of the trail and past experience with how hard it is to make up time- so it's hard to argue with his rough plan of keeping his eye on the daily miles and not relying on any make up days... if anything, many (myself included) expected some late explosions from Scott in terms of miles and that turned into a test of his sleepwalking rather than his speed. :D
As fer Anish... no splits or even a rough itinerary likely to ever show.
Joey Camps had some very explosive days on the first 3/4 of the trail, and some solid times up north as well- but an injury that undid him... That said; Joey was racing, not pacing... and his achievement is very admirable overall.
No matter how it shakes out- the very best of luck to Karl!
So, did he start his hike yet or was he just scoping out the trail? This would be the first confirmation that he started...though I was under the impression that real time tracking was in the works.
I asked him how it was going, and he replied great but it always does the first day. He's fortunate in that in the 100 mile wilderness there wasn't any mud and that the only ford is the West Branch of the Pleasant River. Iceman
Summarizing a few interviews (posted here above I believe)-
On the plus side- going sobo- if he doesn't do well to the VT/Mass border- we'll have a pretty good idea if it will happen or not.
I personally think that a JPD type level of performance on the central and southern halves is reasonable, but overall Karl seems to favor a more steady output and indicated that he has to hold steady and on pace up north.
Both Matt Kirk and JPD went fairly slow (relative to their linear average) up North and made up ground on the rest of the trail. Course they are both Asheville area kids for what that is worth.
No matter how it shakes out- the very best of luck to Karl!
JB, you know that everyone goes fairly slow (relative to their linear average) up North. ;)
jersey joe
08-08-2016, 12:29
I asked him how it was going, and he replied great but it always does the first day. He's fortunate in that in the 100 mile wilderness there wasn't any mud and that the only ford is the West Branch of the Pleasant River. Iceman
Interesting, so possible he started on the 3rd and this is his 6th day out?!
I wish they were doing live updates.
He could be out of Maine today or tomorrow already.
Just Bill
08-08-2016, 13:16
JB, you know that everyone goes fairly slow (relative to their linear average) up North. ;)
:D:-?
Yar, lol. Worded a bit poorly...
Guess all I meant-
Joey was rocking and had a day or so to spare, if he took it, kept his energy level high and exploded after he cleared the whites; it's hard to say even Anish would have bested his time.
JPD was sick and had some issues through the Whites.
Matt Kirk made a conscious choice to give himself an extra day.
Both turned out pretty well ;)
It's a massive effort to put in even three extra miles or push to sustain 2mph for any period of time; whereas elsewhere on the trail that's just an extra hour of moonlit walking or a slight stretch of the stride. Big mental barrier to put in front of yourself too when numbers in the face of the terrain weigh you down.
No numbers from Anish; but seems if she did one thing better than anyone it was to toss the numbers out of her head and just move with the trail.
Whether by fate or by choice; Jen and Matt both had very productive days after a less than the peak of possibility up north.
I think a bit of caution and conservation of effort in light of the area is wise... and perhaps leaves a bit more in the tank in the long haul to pop off a few big days here and there.
Easily said from my desk whist day dreaming on my fat ass though.
Chair-man
08-09-2016, 19:25
Looks like Karl has been on his way for few days now. His tracking web site (http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1) says he's 160.57 miles into his trek. No idea when he started.
Just Bill
08-09-2016, 19:34
Looks like Karl has been on his way for few days now. His tracking web site (http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1) says he's 160.57 miles into his trek. No idea when he started.
3-4 days ago :D
Thanks for the catch, time for the popcorn!
It shows average speed as well as total distance. 160.57 miles at 3.93 mph, which if accurate would be a very ambitious start, even for a runner of Karl's ability. That would be less than 2 days...it's probably the average speed while he's on his feet.
jersey joe
08-10-2016, 08:26
3-4 days ago :D
Thanks for the catch, time for the popcorn!
I went to the site this morning. There isn't much going on there in terms of how his hike is going, details on mileage per day, etc.
Selfishly, this isn't very much fun to follow so far, no popcorn yet.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=19477 here is a pic from the trail
jersey joe
08-10-2016, 15:31
Karl just posted on Facebook and updated his site.
"One week down on the trail and less than 2,000 miles remain. The running is good and the bacon is even better...follow along at redbull.com/atrun (http://redbull.com/atrun)"
Distance Covered: 273.97
Chair-man
08-10-2016, 15:42
Actually, there is a journal being kept on the Red Bull site. (http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1) Just scroll down to the map and then click on the blue tab that says "read more from the trail". Here an excerpt from Day 1
Day One started early from Mount Katahdin and Karl was ready to go. He pounded out the first leg of the journey with unbelievable timing, surprising our crew by arriving two hours early off a near 10 mile stretch. Karl had his first bumps and bruises as well, falling twice on the rocky mountain trail but still finished three hours ahead of schedule. As expected, Karl was exhausted by the end of the day and in bed as soon as possible (after eating some pasta of course!) so he could be up at 4 a.m. for Day Two.
wana pass the popcorn
jersey joe
08-10-2016, 16:21
Actually, there is a journal being kept on the Red Bull site. (http://atrun.redbull.com/karl-meltzer-appalachian-trail/p/1) Just scroll down to the map and then click on the blue tab that says "read more from the trail". Here an excerpt from Day 1
Day One started early from Mount Katahdin and Karl was ready to go. He pounded out the first leg of the journey with unbelievable timing, surprising our crew by arriving two hours early off a near 10 mile stretch. Karl had his first bumps and bruises as well, falling twice on the rocky mountain trail but still finished three hours ahead of schedule. As expected, Karl was exhausted by the end of the day and in bed as soon as possible (after eating some pasta of course!) so he could be up at 4 a.m. for Day Two.
wana pass the popcorn
Nice Chair-man, I totally missed that on the site. Passing the popcorn.
Sounds like Scott and Jenny better get busy and fry up some more bacon for Karl. Score one for ancestral health vs veganism!
"The running is good and the bacon is even better.."
Odd Man Out
08-10-2016, 17:59
The notes give his first firm bencark. He reached the Kennebec river at the end of day 3.
The Redbull site has been updated. Not sure what day but he has completed 416.27 miles. Today is day 10 of his hike.
The Solemates
08-12-2016, 15:37
wheres the spreadsheets guys? come on!
George13579
08-12-2016, 17:04
Yes - Spreadsheet guy - can you work your magic?
Here are the details posted for the first seven days:
Day 1 - 8/3/16 Mt. Katahdin, ME
Day One started early from Mount Katahdin and Karl was ready to go. He pounded out the first leg of the journey with unbelievable timing, surprising our crew by arriving two hours early off a near 10 mile stretch. Karl had his first bumps and bruises as well, falling twice on the rocky mountain trail but still finished three hours ahead of schedule. As expected, Karl was exhausted by the end of the day and in bed as soon as possible (after eating some pasta of course!) so he could be up at 4 a.m. for Day Two.
Day 2 - 8/4/16 Maine
Karl’s spirits were high after dominating Day One. He spent the morning smiling and making jokes with our crew. He has been early at every stop since the beginning of the attempt and was very optimistic for the day. The day continued smoothly until the second to last stop where Karl mentioned his neck was bothering him. Our crew had some adventures of their own - the truck got stuck trying to access the final check-in location on the gnarly backcountry access roads. Overall, a successful start to the journey.
Day 3 - 8/5/16 Kennebec River, ME
Karl is happy! Well, as happy as a man can be for running 50+ miles a day. He decided to go ahead and run an extra 12 or so miles to the Kennebec River to catch the River Ferry (canoe) across the App Trail river crossing. Hikers are advised to take the ferry in order to avoid the dangerous currents and for Karl, keeping his feet dry is key.
Day 4 - 8/6/16 Kennebec River, ME
The optimism continued for a third consecutive morning and Karl livened up the 4:45 a.m. wake up call making jokes with our crew while he drank his coffee. Great news, the ferry driver was early! For Karl, every second counts. He started on the other side of the Kennebec River around 6:15 a.m., three hours ahead of his planned schedule. Mother Nature was Karl’s friend today - he cooled off thanks to some rain in the area. Per usual, he ended the day ahead of schedule and rolled into camp happy, even picking up litter that hikers had left behind. He got into bed early which is always critical. More rest = better performance.
Day 5 - 8/7/16 Maine
Smooth day. However...the weather? Not so smooth. There were heavy rainstorms and showers which caused Karl to arrive right at his expected time for the first time. Karl Sr. (Karl’s dad and a part of the crew) greeted him at the finish and even hiked the last mile out with him. The biggest highlight of the day was the arrival of his wife Cheryl! We’re currently somewhere in the Maine wilderness, near the Canadian border (cell reception thanks to the top of a mountain!). Today’s last stretch was the most intense part of the hike yet and it will only get more intense over the next couple of days.
Day 6 - 8/8/16 Grafton Notch, Maine
Karl began Day Six after a cold and wet night. The terrain for the next few days will be extremely rough as Karl has to nearly climb his way up mountains. His timing was on schedule and he continues to hit his marked destinations. Tomorrow Karl will be venturing through what is known as the “toughest mile,” on the AT.
Day 7 - 8/9/16 Gorham, New Hampshire
No rain in the area today. However, the trail is now getting into rocky terrain. This is one of the most technical parts of the AT as hikers have to use a combination of bouldering and hiking. Also noteworthy is that there still ice on the ground...in August.
The trek through Mahoosuc Notch and Success Mt. This span of terrain is intense and Mahoosuc Notch is known as the, "hardest mile," on the AT. This was a crew day as Karl's support team pushed in two spots he didn't get crewed on his last attempt. This is not only huge for Karl's moral on the trail and knowing someone's always there but also in replenishing his body with full meals. Karl's demeanor was very good for someone who faced such obstacles. He moved at an efficient pace through a challenging environment, which sets the pace for his leg tomorrow.
My guess would be somewhere near Gorham at the end of Day 7.
Just saying... :-)
Sarcasm the elf
08-12-2016, 20:26
Just saying... :-)
He he he ...
It looks as if Karl was at Crawford Notch at the end of day eight Mile 345.4. How does that compare to where JPD was after eight days?
jersey joe
08-15-2016, 09:05
It looks as if Karl was at Crawford Notch at the end of day eight Mile 345.4. How does that compare to where JPD was after eight days?
At the end of day 8 JPD was at Mt. Washington, 332 miles.
This is the Daily log for Jennifer Pharr-Davis 2011 AT record hike (supported):
Day 1 (June 15): Katahdin to Jo Mary Road -- 56 miles (56 total) (started 4:06 AM)
Day 2 (June 16): Jo Mary Road to location near Long Pond Stream ford -- 44 miles (100 total)
Day 3 (June 17): Long Pond Stream ford to Boise Cascade Logging Road -- 46 miles (146 total)
Day 4 (June 18): Boise Cascade Logging Road to ME 27 (Stratton) -- 42 miles (188 total)
Day 5 (June 19): ME27 (Stratton) to Sabbath Day Pond -- 41 miles (229 total)
Day 6 (June 20): Sabbath Day Pond to Grafton Notch -- 38 miles (267 total)
Day 7 (June 21): Grafton Notch to Gorham NH -- 31 miles (298 total)
Day 8 (June 22): Gorham to Mt. Washington -- 34 miles (332 total)
Day 9 (June 23): Mt. Washington to Gale River Trail Junction -- 30 miles (362 total)
Day 10 (June 24): Gale River Trail Junction to Glencliff -- 38 miles (400 total)
Day 11 (June 25): Glencliff to Hanover -- 43 miles (443 total)
Day 12 (June 26): Hanover to dirt road near Stony Brook Shelter -- 36 miles (479 total)
colorado_rob
08-15-2016, 09:13
Makes sense he is a bit ahead, since Karl is a runner and he had lots of flat terrain in ME to make big miles, and JPD basically walked most of the trail. Maybe she did a bit of running in the flat parts of the 100-mile?
Anyway, it always amazes me comparing JPD to these ultra runners and how magnificently well she did.
We'll see how he holds up, this is fun stuff to follow!
Just Bill
08-15-2016, 09:30
Here is Jen's full sheet... been a while but IIRC;
MPD was what was reported generally or in her book.
CA-MPD was what Brew wrote down and appeared to be slightly more accurate.
Just Bill
08-15-2016, 09:51
wheres the spreadsheets guys? come on!
Yes - Spreadsheet guy - can you work your magic?
It would indeed be magic, lol. As of now there aren't really any data points to spread on a sheet. I think Odd Man Out identified the first reliable one, Angle has a second. But that's 2 out of 8 days.
Data point one then has him going 50.67 MPD, Data point two has him dropping down to 43.125 MPD if correct.
The notes give his first firm bencark. He reached the Kennebec river at the end of day 3.
It looks as if Karl was at Crawford Notch at the end of day eight Mile 345.4. How does that compare to where JPD was after eight days?
If you compare those to JPD-
She was averaging 48.63 MPD after 3 days and 41.5 MPD at day eight. A slight edge for Karl to be sure.
On day 9, she posted her worst day of the trip- 27.8.
It is worth nothing that she was not doing well at all and didn't really recover until she cleared Vermont if I remember right- roughly day 15/16. 600 ish miles in.
From there on out her "bad" days were 46 MPD or so.
She averaged about 50.
Nothing against Karl at all- but he has quite correctly said that for him- everything has to go right to have a shot.
He's got a slight edge on the daily's- but that's compared to someone who was struggling badly enough that they almost quit.
I wouldn't get too excited- other than seems he's had good weather and things are more or less going according to plan thus far.
Continued best to Karl!
I hope he gets it, I hope he does it with Jurek by his side too.
Stories like that are good for all of us.
If the oppressive heat a bit farther south continues, he's going to be challenged to maintain record pace...
Just Bill
08-15-2016, 10:05
Checked it real quick-
JPD-
Days 1-15= average of 40.82 (Big K to VT/MA border)
Days 16-46= average of 49.5 (tossed out her final half day)
Her overall for 46 days is an interestingly coincidental 46.xx MPD.
If Scott beat her by 3 hours- we can more or less call his trip the same trip as I don't think anyone sat down to work his splits out. He clearly didn't do any better up north on his sleepwalking masterpiece :D
The only real spot to improve on her time is day 4-14... 38MPD average or so over about 418 miles of trail.
So let's give Karl a theoretical win there and say he holds a 43MPD average-
418/38= 11 days even
418/43=9.72 days
That's a 1.28 day improvement overall...
Which is more or less the scenario that both Scott Jurek and Karl have said (after Scott's hike) would be the "Perfect Trip" and about the limit of possibility- basically a 45 day trip.
Karl basically has the first 15 days to beat it- then he has to hold on for dear life for the next 30 days.
wannahike
08-15-2016, 11:28
Saw this this am on a trail journal. They stayed at Guilford State Park Sat, night posted this yesterday. Storm's journal
In the first mile we stopped at Thundering Falls which is the highest waterfall on the AT in Vermont. It was really pretty and was flowing well with all the water from last nights storms. We passed the guy heading southbound who is going for the supported record of the AT. He is running literally.
Saw this this am on a trail journal. They stayed at Guilford State Park Sat, night posted this yesterday. Storm's journal
In the first mile we stopped at Thundering Falls which is the highest waterfall on the AT in Vermont. It was really pretty and was flowing well with all the water from last nights storms. We passed the guy heading southbound who is going for the supported record of the AT. He is running literally.
I saw that on Storm's journal also. Thundering Falls is at mile482.9, but Karl's site has had 500.37 miles completed since sometime Saturday morning I believe. I'll need to pay better attention when they update that figure.
JPD was battling shin splints in NH and VT. Those low milage days were because she could barely walk, which makes her feat even more impressive.
Blisters forming on the soles, which is never a good thing. Hard to think about running another 1,600 miles with raw feet.
swisscross
08-16-2016, 12:12
Did he not have to abandon his last attempt due to blisters?
for those of you that don't like trail running or speed hiking, stay the hell outa here. go post on the women's forum like you tend to do
I believe this is called winning.
I believe this is called winning.
You misspelled whining.
No DeLorme for us to follow.... I guess it cuts back on Speed Goat's pack weight. But I will miss the late night posts that he has stopped or going the wrong way.... only to find out the battery had died or was left in the support vehicle.
Just noticed on the Redbull site that he has completed 608 miles. Today is day 14 of his attempt.
matthew.d.kirk
08-17-2016, 22:21
No DeLorme for us to follow.... I guess it cuts back on Speed Goat's pack weight.
Best of luck to Karl. I confess to wishing for more timely and thorough updates as well... But I understand the choice to delay/obscure posting. To me, info only need be furnished upon claiming an FKT. Enough anyway to fill in daily splits- it need not even be a fancy track map from some heavy/spotty tracker etc. And yet only one of two AT fkts last year would pass this litmus test. In short, regarding transparency: there's still room for improving on honest and thorough documentation.
TJ aka Teej
08-18-2016, 12:37
And yet only one of two AT fkts last year would pass this litmus test.
Jurek's SPOT was "accidentally" left in the support van far too often to pass your litmus test.
matthew.d.kirk
08-18-2016, 15:51
Jurek's SPOT was "accidentally" left in the support van far too often to pass your litmus test.
Despite any shortcomings (actual or perceived) of Jurek's attempt, his was the most transparent FKT attempt I've seen, allowing for the "spreadsheets guys" to piece together the daily progress (benchmark of "litmus test"on transparency), for example: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/111652-Scott-Jurek-on-Appalachian-Trail?p=1987470&viewfull=1#post1987470
Now compare that to another (rather humorous) example to see the difference in transparency: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/113213-Anish-attempting-the-Unsupported-AT-Record?p=1997067&viewfull=1#post1997067
Despite any shortcomings (actual or perceived) of Jurek's attempt, his was the most transparent FKT attempt I've seen, allowing for the "spreadsheets guys" to piece together the daily progress (benchmark of "litmus test"on transparency), for example: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/111652-Scott-Jurek-on-Appalachian-Trail?p=1987470&viewfull=1#post1987470
Now compare that to another (rather humorous) example to see the difference in transparency: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/113213-Anish-attempting-the-Unsupported-AT-Record?p=1997067&viewfull=1#post1997067
Matt,
First of all, "Hi." :) (we're friends in different states who haven't seen each other in awhile)
Second, I figured I'd hop on the thread this year since I spied on everybody last year during Scott's attempt and was too nervous to actually post anything.
My opinion of the spot/tracker debate is that it's an attempt at transparency but it still has its limits. Scott, who we admire and trust, did his best at this yet as others have pointed out, he did accidentally leave the tracker in the car a time or two so it looked like he was by-passing sections or running on roads at 35 mph. He also didn't use the tracker as much in GA, TN, and NC as well as parts of VA so it looked like he skipped sections altogether.
This castes no doubt on his FKT for me because as I said, we trust him and believe he did what he said he did. There's no fool proof way to verify this stuff. Even if somebody used a tracker the entire time, who's to keep them from sticking it on a friend/accomplice and letting them get some miles in at night when no one's watching (or riding in a support van on a road, as the dude from the UK was accused of on his trans-America run)?
I do think people should release certain reasonable benchmarks and proofs- some during the hike (start time, for example- and that's not a snipe at Karl, though I honestly can't remember whether we did that or not) and others after (a spot/tracker, splits, or whatever evidence you have to verify your claim). But even data can be manipulated in the right (wrong?) hands. People go to great lengths for fame.
There's always going to be gray areas and FKTs are always going to boil down to the honor system and I think that's how it should be. Otherwise we have wackadoos on the trail trying to "verify" everything, and that kind of puts a damper on travelling, as you so eloquently put it in the title of your book, "fast, light, and free." (how's that for a plug?)
Having said that, give Lily a hug for us.
FreeGoldRush
08-18-2016, 17:57
There's no fool proof way to verify this stuff.
Of course there is. You carry your tracker on every step of the trail and keep fresh batteries in it the way countless others have done before. This is not a character judging contest; it's an endurance contest. The simple solution is to not judge character and to instead judge the measurable results.
MuddyWaters
08-18-2016, 18:10
Its more complicated than just carrying a tracking device.
It will always depend on integrity and trust of the claimant.
Particularly for self-supported hikes. Keeps the spirit of a gentleman's competition.
The only person that need to accept someone's word, is their peers. Other attempters or fkt holders.
matthew.d.kirk
08-18-2016, 19:22
Brew, good insight, hello and hugs right back at you!
Its more complicated than just carrying a tracking device.
This is true. With or without a tracker, where there's a will to cheat, there's certainly a way...
This discussion of transparency is not to imply cheating, i merely wish to encourage an etiquette for more exhaustive FKT documentation.
Actions speak louder than words. Time will tell if those to come are inclined to put more or less info out than what came before...
Of course there is. You carry your tracker on every step of the trail and keep fresh batteries in it the way countless others have done before. This is not a character judging contest; it's an endurance contest. The simple solution is to not judge character and to instead judge the measurable results.
Countless, in this case, apparently means "roughly zero."
I always assumed Jurek was getting paid to use the DeLorme. And if he was, that is fine with me. It was fun following along as he was trying to make history.
I normally us a gps app on my phone so the family has a clue where I am. Occasionally it gets cut off when it bounces around it my pack. The battery died once coming into the NOC. Hate when that happens cause I lost my map. Now that I use Guthooks, I keep the phone all charged up with a 20Ķ mzh Anchor.
FreeGoldRush
08-18-2016, 22:12
Countless, in this case, apparently means "roughly zero."
Lots of GPS trackers have been carried the length of the trail. What are you talking about?
matthew.d.kirk
08-18-2016, 22:43
I always assumed Jurek was getting paid to use the DeLorme....
I normally us a gps app on my phone so the family has a clue where I am. Occasionally it gets cut off when it bounces around it my pack. The battery died once coming into the NOC. Hate when that happens cause I lost my map.
For whatever it's worth, I've tinkered with a potential solution to this problem. Free of charge, no extra gadget required, which is nice for those not sponsored by Delorme ;)
http://matthewkirk.blogspot.com/2016/08/do-it-yourself-trail-tracker.html
Bottom line; GPS or no GPS, there are many different paths to improved transparency. I've said my peace, I'll quit. :) So... where's Karl.
MuddyWaters
08-18-2016, 22:47
For whatever it's worth, I've tinkered with a potential solution to this problem. Free of charge, no extra gadget required, which is nice for those not sponsored by Delorme ;)
http://matthewkirk.blogspot.com/2016/08/do-it-yourself-trail-tracker.html
Bottom line; GPS or no GPS, there are many different paths to improved transparency. I've said my peace, I'll quit. :) So... where's Karl.
Cool.
Doesnt this make it somewhat easy to completely forge a map track? Good for time delay, bad for actual documentation it would seem.
I kinda like when people just post a pic of where they are and blurb whenever they get chance. Delay as desired, but Im just enjoyin the spectating.
colorado_rob
08-19-2016, 10:03
Bottom line; GPS or no GPS, there are many different paths to improved transparency. I've said my peace, I'll quit. :) So... where's Karl.I did understand your original point, but glad you have decided to drop the sub-topic. We have a similar situation out here in Colorado as the 14er record gets challenged often (and recently beaten), and this topic of traceability come up on those threads.
Not that you implied it, but I was originally blown away when a post on this thread actually implied cheating on last year's record, then I noticed who made the post. Of course! Another opportunity, however completely lame and unrelated, to bash SJ. Twice in this thread, actually.
Just Bill
08-19-2016, 13:57
I kinda like when people just post a pic of where they are and blurb whenever they get chance. Delay as desired, but Im just enjoyin the spectating.
Most of us here are more n ol enough to recall a time prior to electronic wizardry permeating the trail. In fact, many of us are the same to quickly caution or downright berate folks for choosing to not only take, but rely on said devices in the woods. Quick to point out the many faults with batteries, recharging, or simply getting a signal during critical times. So stands to reason the same applies to a record attempt- knowing GPS- probably more so as you are moving quickly and less likely to be hanging around every few hours to help re-establish a signal.
Most agreed that while noble, Scott's overly transparent live tracking was too intrusive for the trail as a whole. That includes Karl who stated as such in the interview posted earlier in this thread. He said his crew would post some updates and somebody would more or less update the Redbull site. He had no plans to release his spot tracker until after the hike. Now besides the obvious flaws we are all aware of with the technology itself, some simple human error like leaving it behind, taking it out, forgetting to turn it on, or a few other reasons likely to be forgotten in the hectic effort to actually set a record worth recording is worth noting.
You could make the argument that Jurek is a "pro" and could be held to a bit higher standards regarding recording and/or promoting... but a bit of perspective is needed too. While I imagine the fella makes a decent living, I'd be a bit shocked to hear he was really a Professional athlete by todays standards of money. As far as I know, both Scott and Karl have a version of a day job and are not wealthy. There was not a full time GPS staffer there to work things out, in fact if DeLorme did pay to sponsor, the egg is on their face really for not providing better support to showcase their tech. I believe there were a few points where, much like Jen and Brew... it was simply Scott and Jenny. Albeit in a nicer vehicle :D.
So not sure why folks would argue a system that has been in place and worked just fine for some time, specially all of us who been round long enough to remember mailing film home from the trail and using payphones.
While the "invite folks out to watch" was a decent rule when the group was smaller or the trails shorter... I think that's a rule that needs to evolve and Scott's hike proved that. Sensitivity in all communities, but especially the AT towards FKT's is still very high. I think Karl, despite outright and clear "corporate" sponsorship is respectfully treading that line and setting a fine example.
Demanding more electronics, over old fashioned and simpler proof is a slippery slope. How much longer until one's pacer carries a go-pro on a stick, or your 360* camera wielding self flying drone must accompany you to document every errant cliff bar wrapper, properly buried poop, or every step of the trail. If we don't want that, then it's time to double down on scaling back the "live" nature of the hikes. Maybe simply a romantic notion of mine, but I enjoy the illusion of someone out in the woods without ready access to society in the form of frequent updates, daily dispatches, etc.
Posted here somewhere, was the press release of the Belgian dentist who just set the supported PCT record. No fanfare, no bs, no live reporting. Just a statement at the end, and a GPS track to claim it.
We'll see how that shakes out- to be a skeptic- just a dude and asupport dude on motorcycle. So GPS only is a bit light. I'd prefer pictures and more traditional stuff personally if I was reviewing it... but the moral of the story is- the more proof the merrier and there is no silver bullet or iron clad standard.
Now all that said; there were two AT records last year, and to an extent- both were disasters for the FKT community.
Jurek's errors have been beaten to death- but time will heal those wounds I think and we'll probably come to like and respect a very likable and respectable guy.
In fact if'n Karl can pull it off, I think we may find little time at all was needed to clean up that issue for good.
However, for the RECORD. On the polar opposite side of the transparency issue.
Now I generally think of myself a bit of a gentleman, and occasionally write lies about such gentlemanly behavior. Though truth is I'm not a very gentlemanly fellow but I do try to be respectful.
I argued pretty extensively during Anish's attempt that her wishes and privacy be respected. Call it part human decency and part hopeless romantic for that story of someone setting out, chucking all the spreadsheets, the data, the promotion, and just letting themselves flow with the trail. I like and admire Heather Anderson as a person and a hiker. Don't know her personally other than that way in which we who walk in the woods all know a bit about each other. Regardless of any FKT, the story Anish has to tell is much bigger than bragging rights or the clock.
After such an intense experience I also argued a bit that some space and respect be given. For all the same reasons many here seem to relate and appreciate to Jen's hike as well as the unsupported hike's like Matt did.
That to commit so intimately with the barest of disconnections from the trail in such an intense way is a hard thing to return from, a lot to process. That many personal things beyond the trail may have been put off will come rushing in and consume you when you return. That you may need time after such an event and the clock is no longer ticking.
So it's been nearly a year... maybe not long enough... to be gentlemanly about it. But is getting about time I'd say.
I don't care about GPS so much simply documenting your trip once it's complete as matter of personal honor.
I think some here would be surprised to find the concept as fairly critical to the whole FKT deal.
Or maybe not... Somebody like Nessmuk or Kephart simply wrote about their adventures, Colin Fletcher shared some photos with the tales, but mainly all he supplied were pretty words and a stiff upper lip.
Sai Edmund had little more than a single picture, reputation, and personal honor as proof that he and Tenzing Norgay stood on Everest's summit.
We don't need full live tracking for an FKT- that's a rather recent blip in the history of adventuring which FKT's are only a recent blip.
Fer the public record; I more or less believe it all happened as Anish recounted.
But this isn't her first rodeo either. There were some issues with her PCT trip. There were some issues with her AT trip.
I'd actually likely be the first to cheer a full blown stealth trip, to go one step further than she did. To chuck it all and just go.
I respect a trip like that very much, I respect her very much.
But at the end of the day when the dust has settled.
You don't really need much, but if you do wish to claim an FKT- you do need something.
But out of respect and honor for those who have come before you- unless you document your trip- it's not an FKT.
The only rule that should be followed is to follow the rules of the one who came before you. Otherwise you haven't bested their effort but done something else.
Anish may have enough standing and personal honor to simply stand up and say she did it.
To be honest it's probably that damn close fer me to call it on that alone. There is something about her medicine that sits clean and right with me.
However that ain't really fair to the sport as a whole, nor to an honorably earned effort by Matt.
Nor is it fair for someone down the line to be able to make a claim and cite Anish's lack of reporting as an excuse to not report.
If you want to claim a tall tale- well I'm a big proponent of that. The best lies are always true.
But an FKT ain't about medicine, tall tales, or even durn nice folks we all want to like.
It's a route, a clock, and a record of what happened with some fairly clear guidelines. One record, one standard.
In real life and our hearts it's way more than a race.
And that part has been more transparent than any who have come before.
But on paper- it's nothing more than a race. And on paper, that hike is blank.
Who knows, maybe I jump the gun, and a book, a report, a something is coming.
Maybe I forget my own words and if the hike was truly more important than the numbers maybe I shouldn't care at all.
It's too bad, because unlike any who have come before... the most meaningful parts of Heather's FKT efforts don't just magnify, but shine a glaring spotlight on the part past the numbers that is truly fascinating about explorations like hers. If anything, it's the opportunity missed, not the paperwork that is a shame.
Bottom line- The "reward" of claiming an FKT is coupled simply with the onus of documenting that one has done so.
rocketsocks
08-19-2016, 14:32
One does not have to become part of the community to best the record.
MuddyWaters
08-19-2016, 14:39
Bottom line- The "reward" of claiming an FKT is coupled simply with the onus of documenting that one has done so.
...to the satisfaction of ones peers.
Which may differ, person to person, depending on resume and perceived character.
Few would question Anish.
I, on the other hand, coming out of nowhere, would be highly suspect.
gpburdelljr
08-19-2016, 15:14
Just Bill,
In post #161 you state "But an FKT ain't about medicine, tall tales, or even durn nice folks we all want to like.
It's a route, a clock, and a record of what happened with some fairly clear guidelines. One record, one standard."
What guidelines? What standards? As far as I know there are none.
Just Bill
08-19-2016, 15:32
Just Bill,
In post #161 you state "But an FKT ain't about medicine, tall tales, or even durn nice folks we all want to like.
It's a route, a clock, and a record of what happened with some fairly clear guidelines. One record, one standard."
What guidelines? What standards? As far as I know there are none.
General info can be found here- http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/thread/19/read-first
The intention to set the record and self declaration of rules to be followed:http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/thread/6?page=3
I formally state my intentions here–as per the protocol established on the main page of this site–that I will be attempting to set a self-supported FKT on the Appalachian Trail beginning in early August.
I have immense respect for the long line of people who have traveled this well-established and historical path in a quest to find their personal limits. In keeping with protocols established by them, and by myself on previous endeavors, I will travel in a self-supported manner.
This means:
Arranging for no pre-planned outside support at any time, and only accepting truly random acts of kindness (trail magic) that come my way.
I will carry all of my own gear and supplies at all times (no "slackpacking" or "muling").
I will walk into and out of resupply locations where I will purchase food and/or collect supply boxes that I have sent to myself.
I will follow the Appalachian Trail and official relocations only (such as the detour around Falls Village, CT), no blue blaze or alternate routes.
When I leave the trail for resupply purposes, I will rejoin the trail at the same location I left, leaving a continuous line of footprints the entire distance.
Never accepting a ride in a vehicle for any reason.
As always, I will respect the wilderness landscape, the lives that dwell therein, other trail users, and the generations of users that will follow by practicing Leave No Trace Ethics.
Per the main page suggestions I will provide a way for the public to follow along with my progress at facebook.com/AnishHikes. Please understand that the posts made there are in NO WAY an invitation for anyone to attempt to help me, find me, join me, or otherwise take away from the nature of a thru-hiker's journey. They are intended to document only, as suggested by this site. I will carry a SPOT beacon, although for safety, its logs will not be publicly available in real time.
I hope in my endeavor to not only bring parity to the male and female self-supported records, but if possible lower it overall. These records are currently held by Mr. Kirk and Miss Thomas, both of whom I hold in very high esteem.
This is my second journey through these ancient mountains and I look forward once again to the joy, struggle, challenge, and beauty of a 2,000+ mi hike undertaken in pursuit of finding and expanding my personal limits.
Heather "Anish" Anderson
Just Bill
08-19-2016, 15:35
And as I brought it up- seems as if posting the rules set forth by the record holder should be shared:https://sub60.wikispaces.com/About
"Self-supported" guidelines followed (Mostly adapted from the writing of Scott "Bink" Williamson (http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pacific&action=display&thread=29)):
Walk into and out of resupply towns to purchase or pick up prepacked and mailed supplies.
Hike as a backpacker, carrying all food and equipment between resupply towns.
Follow the official AT route, no detours, road walks or alternates of any kind.
Do not have anyone follow, or provide support in a prearranged manner.
Do not get into a vehicle for any reason during the attempt.
Honestly and thoroughly document the attempt.
Practice Leave-No-Trace ethics.
Just Bill
08-19-2016, 15:42
Drat- keep forgetting to donate again.
Traditionally (if one can call it all old enough for tradition)-
If setting an OKT (Only known time) as in pioneering a route or being the first to claim a record... it is your job to outline the "rules".
Once set, should you choose to best the OKT and claim the FKT (fastest known time) your goal is to meet or exceed the guidelines of the current holder of the FKT.
In this specific case; Ward Leonard set the OKT, Matt Kirk established and set a new FKT.
The women's FKT was held by Liz (Snorkel) Thomas.
Heather Andersen then bested both efforts and now holds the FKT.
Snorkel is bumped (it is rumored that Jenny Jardine set the OKT) and Matt still holds the Men's FKT
And of course, just in case you are not fully confused yet.
These names are only in relation to the unsupported FKT and have nothing to do with the supported FKT.
:D
matthew.d.kirk
08-19-2016, 15:44
So it's been nearly a year... maybe not long enough... to be gentlemanly about it. But is getting about time I'd say.
Dang, no redbull posts to break up this infomercial. RE Why now: 'Tis the season. On FKT proboards, there's a mid-July announcement for a self-supported attempt. Not sure how it's going. Judging by what's getting copied/pasted, I'm compelled to encourage transparency. RE forged maps (MuddyWaters): intent is to spatially document splits, not truthfulness. Honor/trust remains crucial ingredient. Big Brother tech is not my cup of tea.
gpburdelljr
08-19-2016, 15:48
And as I brought it up- seems as if posting the rules set forth by the record holder should be shared:https://sub60.wikispaces.com/About
"Self-supported" guidelines followed (Mostly adapted from the writing of Scott "Bink" Williamson (http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pacific&action=display&thread=29)):
Walk into and out of resupply towns to purchase or pick up prepacked and mailed supplies.
Hike as a backpacker, carrying all food and equipment between resupply towns.
Follow the official AT route, no detours, road walks or alternates of any kind.
Do not have anyone follow, or provide support in a prearranged manner.
Do not get into a vehicle for any reason during the attempt.
Honestly and thoroughly document the attempt.
Practice Leave-No-Trace ethics.
This appears to be just one person's opinion on a set of rules, and as such is no better or worse than anyone else's opinion.
Just Bill
08-19-2016, 15:55
This appears to be just one person's opinion on a set of rules, and as such is no better or worse than anyone else's opinion.
A fine thought if discussing which piece of gear is best or simply agreeing to allow each other to Hike Your Own Hike.
However, a record attempt is not a traditional hike. It is a very specific hike, with some guidelines to follow and a ticking clock. Like any form of competition, even one with yourself, some standards are applied.
While sexist; I know of no other term that to simply call it a "gentleman's agreement". Not a RULE, but just as binding when honor and not legality is the standard applied.
Sigh... Tis my own damn fault I know.
gpburdelljr
08-19-2016, 16:57
A fine thought if discussing which piece of gear is best or simply agreeing to allow each other to Hike Your Own Hike.
However, a record attempt is not a traditional hike. It is a very specific hike, with some guidelines to follow and a ticking clock. Like any form of competition, even one with yourself, some standards are applied.
While sexist; I know of no other term that to simply call it a "gentleman's agreement". Not a RULE, but just as binding when honor and not legality is the standard applied.
Sigh... Tis my own damn fault I know.
My point is just that in many sports there are official organizations that establish a set of rules, and in some sports there may be multiple competing organizations with different sets of rules. As far as FKT hiking attempts, there don't seem to be any official organizations, yet people on this forum argue about the validity of various FKT attempts. Unless there is some official set of rules (or multiple sets if more than one organization), then there is no context to judge whether a particular FKT attempt is valid or not.
Much ado about nothing.
This appears to be just one person's opinion on a set of rules, and as such is no better or worse than anyone else's opinion.
It's a set of rules that have been generally accepted by the community of FKTers for the last few years. This is not an area dictated by an official governing body, but I submit that if you chose to deviate from them you'd find many people would choose not to acknowledge your record. This actually happened with Joey Camps a couple of years ago when he got into a car to get to a medical clinic, but got back to the trail to finish up and came in slightly under Matt's time.
MuddyWaters
08-19-2016, 17:07
My point is just that in many sports there are official organizations that establish a set of rules, and in some sports there may be multiple competing organizations with different sets of rules. As far as FKT hiking attempts, there don't seem to be any official organizations, yet people on this forum argue about the validity of various FKT attempts. Unless there is some official set of rules (or multiple sets if more than one organization), then there is no context to judge whether a particular FKT attempt is valid or not.
Much ado about nothing.
Correct that there is no governing body.
But if you go after someone else's record with their stated criteria of difficulty, you must meet or exceed it.
As such there can be many records if anyone cares to respect them. However we really have two. Anything goes fkt, and self supported by certain respected rules.
colorado_rob
08-19-2016, 17:31
My point is just that in many sports there are official organizations that establish a set of rules, and in some sports there may be multiple competing organizations with different sets of rules. As far as FKT hiking attempts, there don't seem to be any official organizations, yet people on this forum argue about the validity of various FKT attempts. Unless there is some official set of rules (or multiple sets if more than one organization), then there is no context to judge whether a particular FKT attempt is valid or not.
Much ado about nothing.+1
We might not agree on the shelf life of chlorine dioxide, but we do agree on this point!
Odd Man Out
08-19-2016, 21:40
wheres the spreadsheets guys? come on!
Sorry, I was out of town last week. I was working on completing the FKT for a NOBO hike of Main Street in Hanover NH from the the bookstore to Mollie's for pizza and beer by a chemistry professor supported by wife and Turkmen grad student. Note that if you make the rules as arcane as possible you are guaranteed to have the FKT as it will be the OKT (only known time). I also set the FKT for the yo yo hike as I had to run back to the car to feed the parking meter.
Anyway, the spread sheet only has data for days where Karl is indicating where he says he stopped for the night (as far as I can tell). I'm using milages from the 2015 ATTHC (which is what I have). The benchmark milages are calculated from the Scott's data.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/111652-Scott-Jurek-on-Appalachian-Trail?p=1987470&viewfull=1#post1987470
I calculated a target MPD for each day using Scott's MPD for the same section. Since Jurek went NOBO, his days don't align with Karl's. I used a weighted average of the two days of Scott's data that overlap with each day of Karl's.
35921
jimmyjam
08-19-2016, 22:40
Nice work OMO. And congratulations on your FKT and FKT FF.
Great update of Day 15 on the Red Bull page. Wish I could figure out how to cut and paste it. They lost Karl by parking at the wrong road. He ended up sleeping in a home by the trail and pushed the SOS button on his Spot. I would loved to have heard the conversation when the van finally arrived. ☺
They must not be using Guthooks App. :)
Odd Man Out..
Thanks for doing all the math on the spread sheet.
Love Hanover. Wish my hometown had a CoOp to shop at. Even if there selection of pop tarts was rather lacking.
George13579
08-20-2016, 09:12
Here's Week Two details (Days 8 - 14)
Day 8 - New Hampshire
Today on all levels was challenging. After a long and challenging day yesterday, Karl continued his hike but slowed his pace down. A highlight of today was that Karl reached the summit of Mt. Washington as conditions were harsh. Dense fog, cold air and gusty wind made the hike anything but easy. Karl continued after a late summit, to Crawford Notch where he had a very late arrival. Though he is pushing himself, it's important to note that getting in late also means less rest, which is critical in any situation and especially when you're trying to set a record.
Day 9 - Mt Lafayette, NH
Karl began his hike today on time, however, when reaching the knife's edge, our crew could tell from his demeanor that he is becoming even more exhausted with every step. Thankfully, Karl made a trail companion through the knife's edge that accompanied him for a while. It's important to remember that as much as this is a physical feat, it's mental too. Karl said that this hiker was important because at some points, he kept his pace steady. Karl eventually lost the hiker on the downhill but nonetheless, every person Karl runs into on this journey is important to his success. While hikers’ journeys and motivations are as diverse as the trail itself, the challenges of the trail reveal the common bonds between them.
Karl decided to stop one stop early at Flume Gorge to catch up on rest and recharge his body for another long day on the green tunnel.
Day 10 - Flume Gorge, NH
Karl finished his trek through the White Mountains at the end of Day 10. Not surprisingly, the White Mountains took a toll on both Karl’s feet and mentality. Karl is starting to form blisters around the bottom of his feet, as expected. Karl got to his final destination before sunset which provided him plenty of opportunity to eat a good meal and relax before getting sleep for Day 11.
Our crew brought Karl one of his favorite foods on the trail, ice cream, to lift his spirits with something sweet at the end of the day. (In case you’re wondering, it was chocolate chip cookie dough!) Karl’s attitude is amazing (maybe the ice cream helped). We ended the night laughing as Karl made jokes with everyone around the van.
Day 11 - Hanover, NH
Karl picked up the pace as he headed towards the city of Hanover, home of Dartmouth College. Karl arrived into Hanover before expected and instead of sitting to eat and replenish, he insisted on walking while eating to keep pace. He is an absolute machine. Karl experienced a dramatic shift in landscape as he ran through the city of Hanover - buildings and cars surrounded him as the AT guided him onwards and out of the city. While the change in scenery was welcomed, the surroundings were blurred by very severe storms in the area. A system rolled in during the morning hours and another one later in the night. Torrential rain and lightning caused Karl to arrive later than usual tonight at 9:45 PM. Though he won't be getting the normal hours of sleep to lead him into Day 12, he will have a running companion which hopefully will allow him mentally and physically to keep record speed pace.
Day 12 - Wallingford, VT
Hello Vermont! Karl had a friend come and run part of the trail with him which was instrumental in keeping good and efficient pace today. Day 12 was quick day for Karl. However, there was a gnarly swarm of bees on the part of the trail that Karl had to tackle. Eric (Karl’s Crew Chief), knowing Karl isn't too fond of bees, went in to check out the swarm and ended up getting stung himself. Thankfully for Karl, Eric must have given the bees their fill as they were not an issue as Karl ran through this given section of the trail. As the terrain flattens out from the White Mountains, Karl’s pace should pick up, allowing him to make up a little bit of time.
Day 13 - Stratton-Arlington Rd, VT
Today Karl continued his trek South. Karl is crushing pace again and carrying an amazing attitude along the way. The terrain here is still mountainous in the Green Mountain National Forest, however it's nothing like the harsh terrain of the White Mountains. Karl decided to stop at one of his aids today and shave his beard completely. This prevents flies, ticks and other bugs from catching a free ride on the trail via his facial hair. Another reason? It's cooler! Though, since it's nearing fall the temperature on the trail varies but is seasonally hot. Karl finished today early, catching the crew off guard. Even Karl Sr. was taken by surprise as Karl beat his dad to the punch by showing up as he prepared to hike in to meet him. Karl and the crew enjoyed a nice meal tonight prepared by Cheryl (Karl’s wife) and planned out the route for tomorrow. In bed and asleep by 9 PM, Karl hopefully will be getting the energy he needs to crush it come tomorrow on his route to Mt. Greylock.
Day 14 - Mt. Greylock, MA
As he continues to trek South, Karl’s morale is high. Eric (Karl’s Crew Chief) attributes this to the purchase of new iPod’s for this run, all with new music. This keeps Karl occupied and at pace while running. Karl also is pounding peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as snacks on the trail and fuel to keep him going. Today Karl experienced a bit of rain and bad weather but he pushed forward. Karl’s pace continues to surprise our crew as he's even showing up early to stops to be refueled. Tonight, Karl ended his run at the summit of Mt. Greylock (tallest point in Massachusetts), had a huge meal and a nice bed to sleep in. In previous attempts, Karl had simply run and never stopped. It was beautiful for both Karl and our crew to actually get to stay and enjoy the view.
Terrain Update: Though the trail is less mountainous, roots still remain throughout the trail. In moments of fatigue, this can be extremely tough to navigate. The view from Mt. Greylock was that of another planet. The fog was so thick you could only see 2-5 feet in front of you. Green trees surrounding the trail gave it a very eerie feeling, however when Karl arrived it made for an epic entrance.
Odd Man Out
08-20-2016, 09:24
Odd Man Out..
Thanks for doing all the math on the spread sheet.
Love Hanover. Wish my hometown had a CoOp to shop at. Even if there selection of pop tarts was rather lacking.
We shopped at the Co-op to get the ingredients for Turkmen palaw. They had a shelf marked "hiker suppliers" but there wasn't much on it. But it is a nice grocery store for resupply except at Hanover prices. I was pumping gas as the gas station and noticed someone put a cardboard sign on a stick to point hikers in the right direction.
Water Rat
08-20-2016, 10:53
Who knows, maybe I jump the gun, and a book, a report, a something is coming.
Maybe I forget my own words and if the hike was truly more important than the numbers maybe I shouldn't care at all.
A while back, Anish did mention (I think it was last winter, on Facebook) she was working on a book. I don't know if it was a book that covers her PCT hike, AT hike, or both. Perhaps she is planning on releasing information with the publishing of that book? It has been a bit since she last mentioned the book to her audience, but she has also been out having many other adventures. Maybe she plans on writing the book during winter when she isn't outdoors quite as much.
Day 17 he is South of the Dover Oak. Seems to be sleeping more than I recall Jurek sleeping at the later parts of his hike when I was following it closely.
Is a shame that the discussion sometimes focuses on tracking the hiker. We all know the trail changes each year for various reasons. We should also all know that electronics is not perfect and is subject to human error and sadly manipulation. All comes down to self-respect, honesty, and honor. My feeling is that anyone who puts in the work to reach the mental and physical state to undertake such a mind boggling endeavor is the type of individual who has self respect, honesty, and honor. Enjoy following these individuals. Let them Hike there own hike. No need for us to ruin things by having our eyes up their behind the whole way.
TJ aka Teej
08-21-2016, 18:30
Is a shame that the discussion sometimes focuses on tracking the hiker.
The tracking device was one of Jurek's sponsors, and tracking him was encouraged as a demonstration of the product.
I tuned in late, around Hanover I think, and was completely unimpressed with both the gadget and how his team was using it.
No need for us to ruin things by having our eyes up their behind the whole way.
Do you believe the folks putting on these Hey Watch Me! events are "ruining things" by inviting folks to have their eyes on them the whole way?
MuddyWaters
08-21-2016, 18:33
Is a shame that the discussion sometimes focuses on tracking the hiker. We all know the trail changes each year for various reasons. We should also all know that electronics is not perfect and is subject to human error and sadly manipulation. All comes down to self-respect, honesty, and honor. My feeling is that anyone who puts in the work to reach the mental and physical state to undertake such a mind boggling endeavor is the type of individual who has self respect, honesty, and honor. Enjoy following these individuals. Let them Hike there own hike. No need for us to ruin things by having our eyes up their behind the whole way.
I agree.
For the most part, there's two kinds of attempters
Very respected people with resumes, and dreamer/fools.
The latter is actually funner to watch.
I helped crew a fkt attempt once. I was basically only there to keep real crew member company and hike to location I could text other coordinating party from if needed. But...I saw first hand the problem that inaccurate spot track creates for everyone involved.
Odd Man Out
08-21-2016, 23:18
FYI, this is what my spreadsheet has for his daily targets. The locations are not necessarily logical stopping points. I just took the closest location from the THG for reference.
Day
Adjusted Jurek MPD
Target Total Miles
Target Location
0
0.0
0.0
Katahdin ME
1
46.4
46.4
Pemadumcook Lake ME
2
49.5
95.9
Barren Mountain ME
3
46.6
142.5
Pleasant Pond Mtn ME
4
43.2
185.7
Cranberry Stream Camp ME
5
43.9
229.6
Sabbath Day Pond Lean-to ME
6
35.8
265.4
Grafton Notch ME
7
29.7
295.1
Mt. Hayes NH
8
31.4
326.5
Mt. Madison NH
9
25.5
352.0
Zeacliff Trail NH
10
38.0
390.1
Beaver Brook Cascades NH
11
47.4
437.5
Trescott Road NH
12
49.0
486.5
Sherburne Pass Trail VT
13
50.1
536.5
Manchester Center VT
14
48.3
584.8
Roaring Branch VT
15
49.7
634.5
Finerty Pond MA
16
50.5
685.1
Brassie Brook Shelter CT
17
49.9
734.9
Leather Hill Road NY
18
50.9
785.8
Bear Mountain Inn NY
19
48.4
834.2
Glenwood NJ
20
54.5
888.7
Camp Road NJ
21
50.8
939.5
Bake Oven Knob PA
22
49.4
988.9
Shuberts Gap PA
23
56.4
1045.3
Cove Mountain Shelter PA
24
56.2
1101.5
Stillhouse Road PA
25
51.6
1153.1
White Rocks Cliff MD
26
54.3
1207.4
Manassas Gap Shelter VA
27
55.3
1262.7
Fishers Gap VA
28
52.0
1314.7
Turk Gap VA
29
49.5
1364.2
Cash Hollow Rock VA
30
49.7
1413.9
Petites Gap VA
31
48.9
1462.8
Tinker Creek VA
32
46.7
1509.6
Sarver Hollow Shelter VA
33
49.4
1559.0
Pearis Mountain VA
34
49.6
1608.6
Brushy Mountain VA
35
50.5
1659.1
Partnership Shelter VA
36
45.2
1704.3
Grassy Ridge Road VA
37
47.0
1751.3
Vandeventer Shelter TN
38
43.7
1795.0
Bear Branch Road TN
39
37.3
1832.4
Unaka Mountain TN
40
34.2
1866.6
Low Gap NC
41
43.5
1910.0
Tanyard Gap NC
42
51.6
1961.7
Snake Den Ridge Trail NC
43
50.4
2012.1
Mollies Ridge Shelter NC
44
51.0
2063.1
Copper Ridge Bald NC
45
52.8
2115.9
Bull Gap GA
46
53.0
2168.9
Ramrock Mountain GA
46.38
20.2
2189.1
Springer Mountain GA
Odd Man Out
08-21-2016, 23:24
And his progress to date:
Day
Adjusted Jurek MPD
Target Total Miles
Actual Total Miles
Deviation From Pace
Actual Location
Miles from Springer
0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0.00
Katahdin
2189.2
1
46.4
46.4
Maine
2
49.5
95.9
Maine
3
46.6
142.5
151.5
9.00
Kennebec River
2037.7
4
43.2
185.7
Maine
5
43.9
229.6
Maine
6
35.8
265.4
267.2
1.80
Grafton Notch
1922.0
7
29.7
295.1
298.3
3.23
Gorham
1890.9
8
31.4
326.5
345.4
18.89
Crawford Notch
1843.8
9
25.5
352.0
373.1
21.06
Flume Gorge
1816.1
10
38.0
390.1
New Hampshire
11
47.4
437.5
Vermont
12
49.0
486.5
512.0
25.55
Wallingford
1677.2
13
50.1
536.5
555.6
19.06
Stratton
1633.6
14
48.3
584.8
602.9
18.07
Mt Greylock
1586.3
15
49.7
634.5
654.1
19.56
Beartown Mtn Rd
1535.1
16
50.5
685.1
Connecticut
17
49.9
734.9
750.3
15.38
Depot Hill Rd
1438.9
Odd Man Out
08-21-2016, 23:26
Or if you like a graph. For the missing days I do a linear extrapolation between known points.
35959
Thanks for sharing the results of all the effort. It helps to have a visual when comparing efforts.
Just Bill
08-22-2016, 15:57
Or if you like a graph. For the missing days I do a linear extrapolation between known points.
35959
:eek: Uh-oh, no room on that graph for a negative value on the Y Axis...
Poor Karl is out already? :-?
He's definitely going to need a linear extrapolation or two between upcoming known points for sure to pull it off. ;)
brianober
08-22-2016, 21:07
Can anybody help me sync the day numbers to actual dates? For instance is "Day 18" yesterday, Aug 21? Or do you think the trail journal entries on the Red Bull site might be delayed - perhaps to throw people off. I'm a little surprised very few if any of the people on this thread have actually seen him on the trail recently. In any case, I'd like to cheer him on the day he comes through my neck of the woods - if I can figure it out.
Can anybody help me sync the day numbers to actual dates? For instance is "Day 18" yesterday, Aug 21? Or do you think the trail journal entries on the Red Bull site might be delayed - perhaps to throw people off. I'm a little surprised very few if any of the people on this thread have actually seen him on the trail recently. In any case, I'd like to cheer him on the day he comes through my neck of the woods - if I can figure it out.
He started on the 3rd, so tomorrow will be day 21. I saw him in NJ yesterday. Add around 48-50 miles per day to his latest post and you will have a pretty good guess as to his location. Iceman
Odd Man Out
08-23-2016, 10:10
BTW, I found you can use this URL to read his daily updates without having to go through that annoying high bandwidth web site:
http://view.ceros.com/redbull/notes-from-the-trail/1/p/17
Change the last number to go right to any day you want.
Odd Man Out
08-23-2016, 10:13
:eek: Uh-oh, no room on that graph for a negative value on the Y Axis...
Poor Karl is out already? :-?
He's definitely going to need a linear extrapolation or two between upcoming known points for sure to pull it off. ;)
No positive numbers means he is ahead of schedule. I'll change the scale for negative numbers if he falls behind.
Anybody following this lady's hike?
http://www.hikeforourlives.org/#!mission/ceu8
I met her friend while hiking between Hanover and Rutland and have been following their Instagram accounts for updates. She is moving along pretty fast.
Just Bill
08-23-2016, 12:03
No positive numbers means he is ahead of schedule. I'll change the scale for negative numbers if he falls behind.
:eek: oh my... I just did a quick check against linear and saw he was behind and assumed you found the same. Not so!
DOH! I should know better, lol.
Excuse the sloppiness and quick spin through via the online version of excel... (not sure about day 18 miles and trying to float in 19/20 didn't seem to work)
35972
I pulled up Jen's hike (better baseline I think and we can toss the three hour difference between her and Scott for a spreadsheet) Pretty sure that's the hike he's been pacing himself against as well.
Also saves all the flipping of Scott's hike which is where I assumed was tossing your sheet off a bit. He was pretty erratic (for him) at the beginning with his injury and towards the end.
Anywho- If I float in a few days as you did to fill his out and go
Against the linear pace- he's about a day behind.
However in the much more realistic against JPD- he's a full day ahead!
That "day" was the one he identified as the one critical spot he identified as possible through days 1-15 to improve on Jen's hike.
That takes the edge of some of her monster days on the final half that he didn't think he could better.
Fantastic news for Karl! We've got a race for sure.
So he spent Saturday night (8/20) at Arden Valley Road, 805.3. Anybody know the stats for Sunday and Monday yet?
Odd Man Out
08-23-2016, 15:53
I pulled up Jen's hike (better baseline I think and we can toss the three hour difference between her and Scott for a spreadsheet) Pretty sure that's the hike he's been pacing himself against as well.
Do you have a link for Jen's data. It would be easy to clone my spreadsheet to use her data. Against Scott, he can make up ground after VA. That is where Scott struggled. Until then he will be doing well to just stay even.
So he spent Saturday night (8/20) at Arden Valley Road, 805.3. Anybody know the stats for Sunday and Monday yet?
I have Arden Valley Rd at the end of day 18 based on the "nearly 55 miles" comment which is +19.3 on Scott. I have nothing after that other than he made it to somewhere in NJ on day 19. I choose to only use info that is publicly shared on Karl's site.
So he spent Saturday night (8/20) at Arden Valley Road, 805.3. Anybody know the stats for Sunday and Monday yet?
Where did you find out that he was at mile 805.3 Sat. night? Eric had said at Arden Valley Rd., but I wasn't sure if at mile 805.3 or 800.3.
I'm not absolutely sure. Just trying to piece together from comments.
Just Bill
08-23-2016, 16:23
Here is Jen's full sheet... been a while but IIRC;
MPD was what was reported generally or in her book.
CA-MPD was what Brew wrote down and appeared to be slightly more accurate.
Do you have a link for Jen's data. It would be easy to clone my spreadsheet to use her data. Against Scott, he can make up ground after VA. That is where Scott struggled. Until then he will be doing well to just stay even.
I have Arden Valley Rd at the end of day 18 based on the "nearly 55 miles" comment which is +19.3 on Scott. I have nothing after that other than he made it to somewhere in NJ on day 19. I choose to only use info that is publicly shared on Karl's site.
Post 135 quoted above- or if you click back to the trail running and speedhike forum page- you can click the paperclip for all the attachments on this thread.
Or I could e-mail the excel sheet to you(or already did?)... I think I got your e-mail somewhere still.
I think against Jen is the better benchmark overall- but I know you got the spreadsheet savvy to plug em all in and show them both :D
From what I gathered that was the general plan too- try to pick up that day up north on her pace and not be forced into hitting 60's to maintain it.
If the 55 mile day is accurate (and he didn't pay for it the next day) he's got that day he was looking for.
That will let him hold closer to 45-47 per day (versus her 49+ average) without any of the superhuman days She posted up. His lead may diminish against those days but if all goes well that's his most realistic shot.
You never know... but I doubt we'll see a full day shaved. I'm guessing 12 hours or less.
Odd Man Out
08-24-2016, 11:59
Post 135 quoted above- or if you click back to the trail running and speedhike forum page- you can click the paperclip for all the attachments on this thread.
Or I could e-mail the excel sheet to you(or already did?)... I think I got your e-mail somewhere still.
Thanks. Used your previous post. Finding it my e-mail is probably harder than doing an AT FKT.
They just posted updates through day 20. He had a bad day on day 20, only covering 35.2 miles, getting to the PA/NJ border. Having shin and knee problems. Not sure where he stopped on day 19. Here is the updated graph and link to the spreadsheet that now includes comparison to JPD and SJ. I scaled the JPD data from JB so the total miles add up to the current total. I know that's arbitrary but it makes the formulas work. It only changes numbers by a couple of tenths.
35986
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyivqnewtw38onr/Meltzer2.xlsx?dl=0
The Red Bull site listed 949 miles covered. That would still have him around a day ahead of JPD.
TJ aka Teej
08-24-2016, 14:02
Anybody following this lady's hike?
http://www.hikeforourlives.org/#!mission/ceu8
On August 4, 2016 after completing a Northbound hike from Georgia to Andover, ME, I will turn around and complete a Southbound thru-hike in less than 90 days,
Andover, ME?
Just Bill
08-24-2016, 14:03
Thanks. Used your previous post. Finding it my e-mail is probably harder than doing an AT FKT.
They just posted updates through day 20. He had a bad day on day 20, only covering 35.2 miles, getting to the PA/NJ border. Having shin and knee problems. Not sure where he stopped on day 19. Here is the updated graph and link to the spreadsheet that now includes comparison to JPD and SJ. I scaled the JPD data from JB so the total miles add up to the current total. I know that's arbitrary but it makes the formulas work. It only changes numbers by a couple of tenths.
35986
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyivqnewtw38onr/Meltzer2.xlsx?dl=0
Thanks! Now all is right with the world.
Just Bill
08-24-2016, 14:04
The Red Bull site listed 949 miles covered. That would still have him around a day ahead of JPD.
Things are a bit funky with that part of things... I'd stick with what gets pieced together from the daily log.
Things are a bit funky with that part of things... I'd stick with what gets pieced together from the daily log.
I agree. Not sure why they update that figure and keep the daily log a day or 2 behind with some of the updates being vague as to actual stopping points. I'm assuming 949 miles would of been where he was mid-morning today.
Hey everyone,
It's been pretty quiet on the Red Bull site for a few days now. Does anyone have a Karl sighting to report?
Just Bill
08-26-2016, 12:50
was just thinking the same...
Looks like back to back days in the 30's? Can't quite tell what's going on either.
Hopefully just some reception or low bodycount on the crew slowing down the updates.
I'll share some information on events prior to the what the Red Bull site has been reporting as distance covered since sometime Wed. morning. Saturday night he was at one of the Arden Valley road crossings. Sunday night his goal was mile 850.4, and I would assume he made it because he still had several hours of daylight and around 6 miles to go when I headed back home. Monday night he was at mile 885.3 Camp Rd. which is 10.5 miles north of PA. Late Tuesday evening I saw him briefly as he crossed a road and grabbed a sandwich and a drink from Mike and continued south to his destination for the night. Things seemed to be going better for him on Tuesday which was his 3rd week on the trail.
George13579
08-26-2016, 17:00
Thanks for the Spreadsheet work Odd Man Out (and others)
Here are Week Three details (Days 15 - 21)
Day 15 - Pittsfield, MA
Day 15 Highs: It was a long but productive day for Karl. Karl left early this morning on his route through Massachusetts. His first crew stop was in a busy and booming town near Pittsfield, MA. Karl made excellent timing all day and continues to keep record pace. Since Karl has exited the White Mountains and the terrain has become less harsh, Karl can make up mileage. As of the past week, Karl has consistently stayed in the 40 miles per day range. Attitudes are good with both Karl and our crew despite pushing him to go the extra mile every night.
Day 15 Lows: Tonight, as our crew set up for their last spot on Beartown Mountain Road, trouble hit. Karl’s spot tracker signaled SOS outside a residential building, however, our crew (Cheryl, Karl Sr. and Eric) could not receive that information due to the lack of cell reception in the area. The production crew had reception in the area they were in so they decided to trace the address of the GPS ping to try and find Karl. It was around 9:30 PM, so by that time it’s pitch black in the area and the cold weather sets in for the night. As the production crew drove by, they saw the lights on at a house but continued to drive past it to continue their eventually futile search. The production crew turned around and decided to navigate to Old Beartown Mountain Road which happened to be where our crew was. The production crew said that on their trip down, they saw our caravan speed past them and knew immediately that something was wrong. The production crew eventually drove back to where they were originally looking for Karl and miraculously, Karl appeared! So, how did this all happen? Our crew mistook Beartown Mountain Road and Old Beartown Mountain Road as one in the same so we waited for Karl at the wrong stop.
Karl ended up going to someone’s house where they offered him a jacket, a blanket and a floor to sleep on. Luckily, there were no injuries and everyone is safe. It’s important to remember the trail is off the beaten path, even on surrounding roads. From here on out, the crew is optimistic about tracking and pinpointing every crew location on the rest of the trail. It’s going to be a short night of rest for Karl but hopefully he can charge on tomorrow with the same energy and excitement he had at the start of Day 15. Even with the best technology, an experienced crew and a world class athlete, a journey on the A.T. is full of surprises and mishaps.
Terrain Update: This area of the A.T. starts to run through a lot of small towns. Classic Americana surrounds you as the trail runs through many old fields and sidewalks before you’re surrounded once again by lush green shrubbery and trees. Though we’ve traded mountains for hills, these hills are no joke.
Day 16 - Connecticut
After a long night, Karl was up and at it again this morning to make his way through Connecticut and on to New York. Initially, Karl was tired upon beginning his run but after about 10 minutes, he started to feel a burst of energy and excitement again towards running. Karl logged an impressive number of miles on Day 16 (over 48 miles today!), even after the mishaps of Day 15. Karl is starting to increase his numbers and still has a positive attitude about things. Overall, it was a routine, smooth day and Karl was in bed early again.
Day 17 - Depot Hill Road, NY
Karl began Day 17 at sunrise as expected. As our crew heads further south, the change in climate is impossible to ignore. It's beginning to get very hot and humid...which you can imagine makes Karl’s run a bit more difficult. Sadly, Cheryl (Karl’s wife) had to leave around 4:30 PM today. She waited roadside for Karl to wish him farewell as he kept his pace throughout New York.
Karl passed by Dover Oak today which is the oldest tree on the Appalachian Trail. Karl said it best as he exclaimed, “That's a big a** tree!” upon passing. As beautiful (and big) as it is, it is next to a very noisy street. Karl logged over 50 miles today and took over 100,000 steps! That is the equivalent of over 1,250 flights of stairs! That being said, it is no wonder that as Karl stopped for his final crew and sleep, he noticed a sizable blister starting to form on the tender and middle portion of his foot. As the weather gets more intense, keeping Karl's feet dry and blister-free will prove to be merely impossible. Thus far, Karl has done an incredible job managing the pain. He is a beast. Karl was in the van and in bed early again tonight, partly due to the mosquitos which were very bad at the campsite. At about 10:30 PM Karl's new crew member Mike arrived. Mike will not only assist him and the crew but he will also run the trail with him for roughly 10 days as he is also an ultra runner.
Day 18 - Bear Mountain State Park, NY
Karl logged one of the highest mileages so far on Day 18 - nearly 55 miles - that’s more than two marathons in one day! Karl ran through Bear Mountain State Park which is on the west side of the Hudson River in NY. It’s warm here and it is only going to get warmer as we continue to move south.
Sadly Karl Sr. (Karl’s dad) also had to leave the crew to go back home today so the core crew currently stands as Eric (Crew Chief) and Mike (Karl’s friend and fellow ultra runner). Thankfully Karl’s friend Lou plans on joining up with the crew on Day 19 to help and run alongside him.
Day 19 - New York + New Jersey
Today was an exciting day as Karl's other friend Lou joined the journey. Karl's crew now consists of three people - Eric, Mike and Lou. Mid-day Lou laced up and ran with Karl on the trail. Having Lou along for the trek gives Karl a nice change of pace and some company for time otherwise spent in solitude.
The weather over the past couple of days has been hot and the afternoons have consisted of heavy rainfall. Though the rain helps cool Karl down, the moisture can do more harm than good. It's vital to keep Karl's feet dry to avoid trench foot and daily rainfall makes that near impossible.
Terrain Update: This area has lots of small mountains and is full of expansive farmland. In this area, the trail changes from boardwalks to flat land to paths through farming fields and ultimately to the famous root filled green tunnel. This area also borders many towns which means more pedestrian foot traffic on the trail. Karl spent Day 19 in both New York and New Jersey and was close to Pennsylvania at times.
Day 20 - New Jersey/Pennsylvania Border
Today was an all-around rough day for Karl. Lou had to leave yesterday after his run with Karl, meaning the crew is down to only Eric and Mike. Karl started having pains in his shins early in the day which made it difficult to navigate and run. The pain also took a mental toll on Karl so Mike decided to join in on the trail for about eight miles. Mike mentioned that Karl’s knee kept buckling during their run - one can only imagine the pain that Karl must be in. Even though he was in pain, Speedgoat pressed on.
The crew iced his legs a bit longer than usual and tended to both his shins and knee. For tomorrow, Karl will have a wrap around his ankle to hopefully help make his run smoother. Though the plan was to complete 50 miles on Day 20, Karl only completed 35.2 of those miles due to the challenges. On a physical and mental journey of this magnitude, the gravity of knowing when to push yourself and when to hold back is immense. Making one wrong decision can cost you everything. Karl will be up and at it again early in the morning as he heads further South into Pennsylvania.
Terrain Update: The terrain today varied though it’s no wonder that many call Pennsylvania “Rocksylvania” - there are rocks everywhere! All shapes and sizes of rocks make up the terrain in this portion of the trail. From large rocks that challenge hikers to find clear paths to get through, to medium rocks that are seen on normal portions of the trail, to gravel that forms nearly perfect path conditions.
Day 21 - Pennsylvania
Karl started early this morning as he continued south through Pennsylvania. He felt exceptional despite his shin still being swollen. Today was one of those days that just clicked, and he was able to knock the miles out smoothly. The terrain on the trail today was a mixture of large and small rocks mixed with tree roots. Many of the larger rocks require a bit of climbing, as if bouldering. When Karl reached our planned stopping point for the day, he felt so good that he insisted on going further. Karl continued into the night into what what we would later learn was one of the “roughest sections” of the trail in Pennsylvania as described by the local section keeper. However, Karl logged his miles and ended up going further than he thought was possible which was a big boost for his morale. After 17 hours, Karl called it a day.
George13579
08-26-2016, 17:05
Add here's Day 22 (which I think was this past Wednesday August 24) as well:
Day 22 Pennsylvania
Karl’s shin continued to swell today, but his spirits are still high while he's hiking. Today was a slower and shorter day than normal, but he's still maintaining a solid pace considering his shin being as swollen as it is. Distance traveled was about 16.4 mi during seven hours. The trail terrain in this section of Pennsylvania is relatively consistent with lots of lush green forests with brown gravel and brown and grey rocks scattered throughout the trail. Karl is still scarfing down large amounts of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and his go-to sugar booster the past couple of days has been chilled, canned mandarin oranges. Though he came off the trail earlier than normal today, Karl will get the rest he needs tonight, if not more and wake up and do it all again tomorrow. The crew’s spirits are high and everyone is pushing forward with a smile on their faces.
Add here's Day 22 (which I think was this past Wednesday August 24) as well:
Day 22 Pennsylvania
Karl’s shin continued to swell today, but his spirits are still high while he's hiking. Today was a slower and shorter day than normal, but he's still maintaining a solid pace considering his shin being as swollen as it is. Distance traveled was about 16.4 mi during seven hours...
This doesn't inspire confidence. A 16.4 mile day due to what could be a significant injury will be especially hard to overcome.
Lone Wolf
08-26-2016, 21:10
This doesn't inspire confidence. A 16.4 mile day due to what could be a significant injury will be especially hard to overcome.
" 35.2 mile day in NJ followed two days later with a 16.4 mile day in PA? Karl is toast - 'chicked out' yet again." a quote from another site :)
MuddyWaters
08-26-2016, 21:45
Seems someone usually trashes people that dont ask for his advice.
But injury with swelling is cause for concern.
I actually feel bad for the guy; he has invested a huge amount of himself in the ongoing effort to achieve this goal. I'm not completely ruling out success for this attempt, but it's doubtful at this point. It shows how high the bar has been set by the likes of JPD and Jurek...everything has to go right, there's no room for even a few mediocre days.
Violent Green
08-27-2016, 20:54
'chicked out' yet again." a quote from another site :)
Sounds like that other site has their fair share of jerks.
Everyyhing he has done is unreal to someone like me. No way an I counting him out, Sure it is not the first shin swelling he has overcome.
" 35.2 mile day in NJ followed two days later with a 16.4 mile day in PA? Karl is toast - 'chicked out' yet again." a quote from another site :)
He also had a 32 mile day in PA, but don't count him out. He is one tough dude. After all it is just walking.
Odd Man Out
08-29-2016, 11:49
He is not giving a lot of details on exact locations. But he does give precise mileages for a couple days. Using the THC data, I look for road crossings in about the right locations that are the designated distances apart. With this I speculate he was at County Rd 319 on 19. Hiking 35.2 miles on day 20 puts him at Camp Road (which was also posted above). He said he had a good day on Day 21 so let's assume he did 55.2 miles to Bake Oven Knob Rd. This works since the only two road crossings that are exactly 16.4 miles apart (the distance listed for day 22) in that area are Bake Oven Knob Rd and Hawk Mtn Rd (for day 22). Based on these assumptions he is after day 22 behind SJ by 32 miles and ahead of JPD by 1.4 miles.
day
total miles
location
day miles
18
805.1
Arden Valley Rd
54.8
19
850.1
County Rd 319?
45.0
20
885.3
Camp Road?
35.2
21
940.5
Bake Oven Knob Rd?
55.2
22
956.9
Hawk Mtn Rd?
16.4
36049
Odd Man Out
08-29-2016, 11:49
Sorry, ignore the incorrect attached graph in the last post.
He also had a 32 mile day in PA, but don't count him out. He is one tough dude. After all it is just walking.
Correction...The Red Bull site reports 35.5 miles.
Correction...The Red Bull site reports 35.5 miles.
There is no correction required, you are talking about 2 different days. There was a 32 and a 35.5, in addition to the 16.4 and a 35.2 a few days ago....those 4 days combine for a net loss of almost 70 miles on Jurek's record pace. I know Karl had a cushion built, but it wasn't 70 miles of cushion and he wasn't injured. Which, according to the post on the site today, is bothering him a great deal.
Looks like he was at the gravel rd before I-81 at mile 1006.7 on Thursday night and in Duncannon Friday evening.
Scott and Jen both had to work though injury/illness that caused them to fall off pace. It was there ability to push through and recover while staying on the trail that allowed them to break the records. Jen writes wonderfully about the ability to heal while hiking. Karl is not being tested. If he can hang in there for a couple more days with out falling to far off pace, he will still has a chance. Like Scott, Karl has the ability to make a huge push at the end - he can go hundreds of miles and multiple days with little sleep. Don't rule him out yet.
MuddyWaters
08-29-2016, 22:24
Scott and Jen both had to work though injury/illness that caused them to fall off pace. It was there ability to push through and recover while staying on the trail that allowed them to break the records.
Recovery and healing ability declines precipitously with age. Karl is almost 49.
Staying healthy due to cumulative wear and tear is the challenge, and younger has the advantage. So might Jureks magic diet. Karls an incredible athlete, but so are the others.
This graph shows the slope.
36050
...Don't rule him out yet.
I haven't ruled him out at all, I've simply stated that given the information we are receiving from the website it appears to be a long-shot at this point. There is no denying Karl is a hard driven athlete, but as an endurance athlete myself (competitive cyclist and podium finisher at many running events) I can attest to the effects of age MuddyWaters pointed out. Issues I could have almost ignored in my 30s are deal breakers now that 50 has arrived...
Shippensburg Rd. on Sat. evening. Around a 54 mile day.
jersey joe
08-30-2016, 11:59
There was just a facebook post with a picture of mileage per day for Karl through day 25. I think this is what we've been waiting for?!?
Let the charts/graphs/analysis begin!
36060
Markus 4345
08-30-2016, 12:13
There was just a facebook post with a picture of mileage per day for Karl through day 25. I think this is what we've been waiting for?!?
Let the charts/graphs/analysis begin!
36060
Exactly, the coverage on the red bull website was not that great so far.
1095.3 miles in 25 days = 43.812 miles per day
Scott Jurek had an average of 47.2 miles per day
http://www.runnersworld.com/trail-racing/scott-jurek-breaks-appalachian-trail-thru-hike-record
I think the southern half of the AT is easier but with shin splints it will be difficult for Karl.
He would have to do 53 miles in the next 21 days on average.
I don't know anything about the AT but a lot about multiday running. I think the record is out of the question.
jersey joe
08-30-2016, 12:27
Exactly, the coverage on the red bull website was not that great so far.
1095.3 miles in 25 days = 43.812 miles per day
Scott Jurek had an average of 47.2 miles per day
http://www.runnersworld.com/trail-racing/scott-jurek-breaks-appalachian-trail-thru-hike-record
I think the southern half of the AT is easier but with shin splints it will be difficult for Karl.
He would have to do 53 miles in the next 21 days on average.
I don't know anything about the AT but a lot about multiday running. I think the record is out of the question.
The northern part of the trail is significantly harder than the south.
A better comparison would be with Jenn Pharr-Davis' southbound hike, which is only a few hours slower than Jurek's hike.
After 25 days Jenn completed 1102 miles which is 44.08 per day.
Karl is pretty much even with Jenn and if he can figure out this injury still has a good shot at this record.
Markus 4345
08-30-2016, 12:34
Good to know. But with shin splints it will be very difficult. That is not something that goes away while you are doing hard long running days.
TJ aka Teej
08-30-2016, 12:42
I don't know anything about the AT
Karl does.
Comparing Jurek's northbound tally to Karl's southbound miles is a fool's errand.
Markus 4345
08-30-2016, 12:57
Of course you can't exactly compare. But the record is only 21 days away and 53 miles per day is a lot when you have shin splints.
There was just a facebook post with a picture of mileage per day for Karl through day 25. I think this is what we've been waiting for?!?
Let the charts/graphs/analysis begin!
36060
If that's current, I'm putting him around Ridge Road (1099.3) last night. Does that look right to you guys?
Just Bill
08-30-2016, 14:01
Karl does.
Comparing Jurek's northbound tally to Karl's southbound miles is a fool's errand.
For our purposes... Jen and Scott are 3 hours apart... on a 46.5 day hike that is 3 hours divided by 2376 hours or .001263 difference.
So yes- for all intents and purposes Scott's dailies (even flipped) don't have a lot of bearing and Scott and Jen pretty well hiked the exact same time for pacing.
If my quickie plug in is right-
On Day 25 Karl was 5.4 miles behind Jen if I plug in the facebook screenshot shown above.
Both encountered shin splints and fell well off pace... So 5.4 miles all things considered is good for suffering an injury.
I'm looking at low 50's (51.5) as a good average to keep it close... which would beat Jen's 49.625 MPD effort for the same section.
While quite possible at this point...
1- We can't say Karl has recovered, although the 53 on day 25 is encouraging. Likely clearing north and central PA will be a big morale boost for him.
2- Assuming he recovers; now he is in a footrace with Jen's times (who was under 30 at the time) on her home turf. That is a tall order for a fella nearing fifty. Everyone agrees that the times that Jen put up on the southern half of the trail are at the limit of what is possible.
Scott, arguably just as strong if not a stronger Ultra runner was zombie walking to the finish. Point being; while both Scott and Karl are capable of ripping off a hundred mile day... it didn't happen for Scott and it's not likely for Karl. Though perhaps he can pull some strong numbers if Scott can help pace him or he smells the barn he's long been chasing and it's close. A 75 mile push in there somewhere would help quite a bit.
My fingers remain crossed for the ol' goat.
Markus 4345
08-30-2016, 14:17
Just Bill, I hope you are right.
I think, that Scott Jurek and Karl Meltzer (in his first attempt) underestimated the task of a multiday ultra. It looks a lot easier on paper than it actually is. You can't just throw in a 75 mile day in a multiday effort. Maybe on the very last day. But in the middle, it will just hurt the performance of the next day.
Slow and steady is usually the best method in multiday running (or hiking).
If that's current, I'm putting him around Ridge Road (1099.3) last night. Does that look right to you guys?
He was at mile 1095.9 Sat. Night - Shippensburg Road. I saw him at nine different locations on Sunday morning and at all but 2 of the times he was jogging along looking strong. I had to head home after that, but he was shooting for a big day.
Chair-man
08-30-2016, 14:42
Likely clearing north and central PA will be a big morale boost for him.
I have to agree 100%. Getting past the half way mark has got to be a HUUUUUUUUGE physiological lift for Karl. I believe he can now see that tiny spec of light at the end of the long green tunnel. It's all down hill from here. Well, figuratively anyway.
Markus 4345
08-30-2016, 15:27
I have to agree 100%. Getting past the half way mark has got to be a HUUUUUUUUGE physiological lift for Karl. I believe he can now see that tiny spec of light at the end of the long green tunnel. It's all down hill from here. Well, figuratively anyway.
Not really, if you have big injuries and fighting for every step. Half way on the AT is a little more than half way in a 100 miler.
Just Bill
08-30-2016, 15:57
I have to agree 100%. Getting past the half way mark has got to be a HUUUUUUUUGE physiological lift for Karl. I believe he can now see that tiny spec of light at the end of the long green tunnel. It's all down hill from here. Well, figuratively anyway.
:D
I'm more talking clearing the worst of the rocks than any mileage markers... I just meant if he got some better trail to stroll on while he healed.
Seemed from his crew reports at least that the rocks were really chewing him up this time... and the shin splints made it worse than usual for him- that or simply coming so strong out of the northwoods simply caught up to him and the rocks became the scapegoat.
Either way- fresh terrain or halfway point I hope he gets the boost that it seems some are reporting. I think Shennies are the real turning point terrain wise and he's about there.
He's is now literally going to need "the run of a lifetime"
Pretty sure I crossed paths with Karl about 5:30am near the Jim and Molly Denton Shelter. I let out a big 'good morning'... he kind of grunted something. ☺ It was dark so I didn't want to blind him with my head laml.
If it was him he probably was at Manassas Gap Monday night. Around 116 miles in 2 days. His shin must be better.
Odd Man Out
08-31-2016, 14:21
Using the daily log posted on the FB page, I confirmed or corrected my mileages and overnights for the first half of his hike. There are a couple of discrepancies between his numbers and mine around Woodstock VT. Was there a trail relocation there recently? I am using the 2015 THC so my numbers might be off, but only by a few tenths of a mile.
Day
Actual Total Miles
Actual Location
Day Miles
Deviation
From SJ
Deviation
From JPD
0
0.0
Katahdin ME
0.0
0.0
1
56.0
Jo Mary Rd ME
56.0
9.6
-0.3
2
100.2
Long Pond Stream
44.2
4.3
-0.5
3
151.2
US 201 Caratunk ME
51.0
8.7
4.5
4
188.2
ME 27 Stratton ME
37.0
2.5
-0.6
5
233.5
ME 17 Oquossoc ME
45.3
3.9
3.5
6
267.2
ME 26 Grafton Notch NH
33.7
1.8
-0.9
7
298.3
US 2 Gorham NH
31.1
3.2
-1.0
8
345.4
US 302 Crawford Notch NH
47.1
18.9
11.3
9
372.5
Flume Side Trail NH
27.1
20.5
10.4
10
408.0
Cape Moonshine Rd NH
35.5
17.9
7.5
11
464.6
VT 12 Woodstock VT
56.6
27.1
21.3
12
512.0
VT 140 Wallingford VT
47.4
25.6
32.2
13
555.6
Arlington Rd Stratton VT
43.6
19.1
33.1
14
602.9
Mt Greylock MA
47.3
18.1
36.3
15
654.1
Beartown Mtn Rd MA
51.2
19.6
39.9
16
699.5
US 7 and CT 112 CT
45.4
14.4
36.8
17
750.3
Depot Hill Rd NY
50.8
15.4
40.0
18
805.1
Arden Valley Rd NY
54.8
19.3
45.6
19
850.1
County Rd 319 NJ
45.0
15.9
41.0
20
885.3
Camp Road NJ
35.2
-3.4
31.0
21
940.5
Bake Oven Knob Rd PA
55.2
1.0
33.2
22
956.9
Hawk Mtn Rd PA
16.4
-32.0
1.4
23
1007.2
PA 72 Swatara Gap PA
50.3
-38.1
4.5
24
1042.7
US 11/15 Duncannon PA
35.5
-58.8
-14.2
25
1095.7
Shippensburg Road PA
53.0
-57.4
-13.0
36066
Odd Man Out
08-31-2016, 14:27
And now for something completely different...
It seems that Karl's web page for daily logs has space saver text on pages not yet posted. But you can view the not-yet-active log posts by typing in the URL directly. Each future day says the same thing:
http://view.ceros.com/redbull/notes-from-the-trail/p/30
Bacon ipsum dolor amet leberkas dolore andouille boudin tenderloin cow aliquip. Shankle meatloaf velit drumstick, est brisket irure. Pastrami alcatra excepteur tail, consectetur qui proident. Non excepteur sausage, ground round ham hock fatback leberkas bacon aliquip. Bacon tri-tip pork belly consectetur laboris frankfurter velit in anim ball tip occaecat. Magna brisket sunt sirloin cillum swine eu sausage beef ribs alcatra ham pancetta incididunt.
Sed kevin doner nulla irure cillum. Ham cupim labore ribeye pastrami swine. Jerky labore esse duis deserunt. Cupim leberkas duis nulla tempor, ut strip steak flank magna. Consequat shank andouille, frankfurter in ullamco short ribs dolore. Porchetta salami pastrami officia lorem alcatra, esse in pig doner ex shankle.
Typing that into Google Translate and use auto language detect, you find it translates from Latin as:
Bacon very smart residential leberkas pain andouille boudin tenderloin cow aliquip. Shankle meatloaf outdoor drumstick, the brisket cupidatat. Pastrami alcatra excepteur tail, Minneapolis who proident. Not excepteur sausage, ground round ham hock fatback bacon leberkas aliquip. Bacon, pork belly tri-tip tomato frankfurter willing to work in anim ball tip blacks. Great brisket and beef ribs sausage sirloin cillum swine football alcatra ham pancetta and vitality.
But Kevin doner no cupidatat cillum. Ham wants to work Ribeye Pastrami swine. Jerky labor duis abandon. I want leberkas duis no time to strip a large flank steak. Photography shank andouille, frankfurter in the district short ribs pain. Porchetta salami Pastrami offices lorem alcatra be in pig doner from shankle.
Perhaps the random day dreams of a non-vegan running all day???
colorado_rob
08-31-2016, 14:53
Thanks for that update, Odd Man Out, to my humble eye, this is actually encouraging, being that close to JPD (I personally don't really put much weight in the comparison to SJ because of the different direction). JPD didn't do much running, and seemingly Karl will be able to make up time with some strong running through MD/WV/VA.
I still hold out a decent hope that Karl can get the job done!
Sunday he made it to Gapland Rd.....60.1 miles
Markus 4345
08-31-2016, 16:10
Thanks for that update, Odd Man Out, to my humble eye, this is actually encouraging, being that close to JPD (I personally don't really put much weight in the comparison to SJ because of the different direction). JPD didn't do much running, and seemingly Karl will be able to make up time with some strong running through MD/WV/VA.
I still hold out a decent hope that Karl can get the job done!
Actually that JPD didn't do much running might have worked a lot in her favor. You don't have to be fast on these long distance runs. You have to be steady and don't overdo it on ANY day. Once you pushed to hard to get into an injury, you might not get out of it at all.
I think a lot of runners overestimate what the speed of a Scott Jurek or a Karl Meltzer on this trail can do. I wish there would be a way to see who much time each of them spent on the trail each day.
colorado_rob
08-31-2016, 16:50
Actually that JPD didn't do much running might have worked a lot in her favor. You don't have to be fast on these long distance runs. You have to be steady and don't overdo it on ANY day. Once you pushed to hard to get into an injury, you might not get out of it at all.Agree, I've always been amazed at the good old Tortoise vs. Hare thing, JPD being the ultimate Tortoise.
That being said, it does take some running to do his now required 53+ days, I would think, and Karl can do this effectively in the "flats" of the middle of the AT.