Cold weather down bag...

[jorge99s]

I'm in the market for a new cold weather bag. My warm weather bag is a Zpacks 30 degree bag or I use my Jacks R Better quilt. So I was considering the Zpacks 10 degree bag or the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15. The Zpacks bag is nearly a pound lighter and I'm already familiar with their products. Does anyone have any preference or know of another option that I should consider? Thanks in advance for the advice.

[egilbe]

Using both quilts and Zpacks bag isnt an option?

[Rightfoot]

I recently purchased a Marmot Lithium 0 degree bag. I love it. The foot box shape and size was a particular draw to me. I've only tested it to 15 degrees so far but slept warm in shorts and t shirt. I found it online just under 500. It's heavier than the two options you have but a great sleep so far. My only complaint is the neck draft tube is not well thought out. Good luck with your choice.

[jorge99s]

Using both quilts and Zpacks bag isnt an option?
It would be but I would to just carry one item.

[egilbe]

How much are you willing to spend?

[bemental]

I've got a used 20degree down bag for sale on the forums if you're interested.

[Studlintsean]

Look into a Western Mountaineering Alpinelite / Ultralite or a Versalite (depending on your size and preferred sleeping bag cut). You won't be disappointed.

[jorge99s]

How much are you willing to spend?
I'm willing to pay $400-$500 for a quality bag.

[colorado_rob]

Look into a Western Mountaineering Alpinelite / Ultralite or a Versalite (depending on your size and preferred sleeping bag cut). You won't be disappointed.I would agree (as we own four WM bags between my wife and myself), that Versalite is sa-weet, 2 pounds for a conservatively rated 10 degree, I've used one comfortably at 0 (in a good 4-season tent), but it is right around $550, hard to find these puppies on sale.

[egilbe]

I was looking at a Pumalite. I'm thinking if selling my first born to finance it. I

[Gambit McCrae]

I love my Antelope MS, worth every penny when it is downright cold

[Gambit McCrae]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Mountaineering-Kodiak-GWS-0-Degree-Sleeping-Bag-/111856642953?hash=item1a0b2ceb89:g:oqkAAOSwCQNWeh3 n
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Mountaineering-Kodiak-GWS-0-Degree-Sleeping-Bag-/111856642953?hash=item1a0b2ceb89:g:oqkAAOSwCQNWeh3 n)
I would get this asap great deal

[Tipi Walter]

As others have mentioned, the WM brand is worth its weight in . . . . uh . . . 850 fill goose down . . . and it's my go-to winter bag, the Puma.

When it comes to cold weather, you have to make a decision: Do I want something I have to zip up every night to stay warm or something overkill I can use as a quilt 90% of the time?? I dislike getting zipped up tight and mummified---it's constricting--- and so my Puma rated at -15F allows me to use it as an open blanket-quilt most winter nights and yet I have the necessary option to zip up tight when temps hit 0F or -10F.

And going overkill on winter trips is very important as a 0F bag may work at Zero ambients but 6 days into the trip with high cold air humidity the bone dry at-home high lofted 0F bag won't be so dry and lofted. I need that extra -15F rating to keep me cozy and comfy at 0F.

[mountainman]

[QUOTE=Tipi Walter;2028301]As others have mentioned, the WM brand is worth its weight in . . . . uh . . . 850 fill goose down . . . and it's my go-to winter bag, the Puma.

When it comes to cold weather, you have to make a decision: Do I want something I have to zip up every night to stay warm or something overkill I can use as a quilt 90% of the time?? I dislike getting zipped up tight and mummified---it's constricting--- and so my Puma rated at -15F allows me to use it as an open blanket-quilt most winter nights and yet I have the necessary option to zip up tight when temps hit 0F or -10F.

And going overkill on winter trips is very important as a 0F bag may work at Zero ambients but 6 days into the trip with high cold air humidity the bone dry at-home high lofted 0F bag won't be so dry and lofted. I need that extra -15F rating to keep me cozy and comfy at 0F.[/QUOTE


Good point, I agree, a few days of moisture on a down bag lowers the rating.

[squeezebox]

I was looking at a Pumalite. I'm thinking if selling my first born to finance it. I


Pleased descibe your 1st born and how much you want. Would you consider a trade?

[Learn Free or Die]

I decided on a Feathered Friends Lark 10 UL over a WM Antelope, although it was a toss up since they're both killer and around the same price. Neither of them are ever sale (FF for sure, since they sell all their gear in house) and for good reason - they don't have to lure customers in.

In any case, I'd suggest getting a bag where you can 1) push the down around in continuous baffles to make it warmer (pushing down to the top) or cooler (to the bottom where you'd sleep on top of it) and 2) put on extra layers or some down clothes (I'd suggest Goosefeetgear for custom items). This will make for a bag that's good for near 0 and up to 40 degrees in comfort. Those were the two major considerations for me since these bags do cost 500+ and versatility/ultralight for a 900+ fill down bag was essential.

I'm thru-hiking the AT NOBO starting in a couple days and I really wanted a bag that would be with me the whole way before I would just use a liner and heat sheet when it gets to be early summer, as well as one that's pretty light. An experiment of sorts, yet I have my bases covered.

Good luck with your search, I know first hand how many variables there are in selecting a bag that's right for the venn-diagram of you, your trip and your budget.

[colorado_rob]

Just an FYI, though FF never seems to, WM bags do go on sale occasionally, though I see none now. Bent Gate in golden CO (bentgate.com, of course) runs them on sale occasionally, and I bought a WM Puma (Tipi's bag) on sale at Moosejaw for 25% off some years ago. If you are patient and want a WM bag, look often.

I agree, FF/WM, tossup on both quality and price. I need a good zero-bag myself (I have the WM -25 Puma and a WM +20 Alpinelite, time for something in-between!).

[Tipi Walter]

It's funny but when I got my Puma in 2005 it was not rated to -25F but instead -15F. Considering they are both the same weight, I have to wonder what happened. I would not have gotten a-25F bag.

[colorado_rob]

It's funny but when I got my Puma in 2005 it was not rated to -25F but instead -15F. Considering they are both the same weight, I have to wonder what happened. I would not have gotten a-25F bag.And also funny, when I bought mine (2007 perhaps?), it was rated -20 ! Perhaps WM simply realized that they were a tad too conservative earlier on and bumped up to be more competitive.

[Gambit McCrae]

Testing procedures could become more accurate over time, technology improvements, rating standards, who knows

[Goatgas]

Check out the never summer, 0deg bag by marmot. pretty toasty.

[Hosh]

SNC has a Marmot Helium 15 at 37% off in their gear cache

[q-tip]

WM Alpinlite-my go-to bag, I have three WM bags, heavy investment, but bags for life, just love them....

[Weather-man]

I've been playing with my cold weather sleep system and have had some good success mixing down clothing and my Z-pack 30 degree bag. My intent was to cut weight by intergrating camp colthes into my sleep system and so far, so good. I think the coldest I’ve had this “system” down to is about 15 F and it’s been toasty. 0 or a little below might be pushing it and I’m hoping to find out when I head back up the SNP in Feb.

What I'm using is as follows:

- Z-pack wide and long 30 degree bag. 17 oz
- Z-pack down hood. 2 oz
- Borah gear down vest 4 oz
- Luke's down sleeves 1.5oz
- Goose feet gear down pants (baffled with 5 oz down) about 7.5oz
- Goose feet gear down booties (over stuffed) 3 oz

This cold weather ensemble gives me some flexibility to mix and match as conditions allow. Everything packs down nice and small and I generally just jam it all into the bottom of my pack’s poly-cro liner. It’s kind of a toss up as to how much weight I’m saving. The down pants are camp wear luxury imo and normally wouldn’t carry them if I had one of my winter bags. So I guess after the pants trade off I’m saving maybe a pound but also have some pimp camp wear to hang out in at night.

I’m hoping to get some cold weather in Feb and test it all down into the low single digits. Note that I’ll bee within a days walk from the trailhead so if it gets miserable I’ll suck it up thru the night and then bail back to the vehicle for my WM Versalite.

[Casey & Gina]

I decided to go high-end for a warm bag and considered Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering, as well as some other brands. I ended up going with FF and am glad I did - they are a real pleasure to work with and the product is fantastic, though I am sure WM is good too from all I've read.

Be warned though that FF is not doing the same degree of custom work they used to be willing to do, these are recent quotes from their customer service:

"We are not really doing full custom work from scratch any more. It has become too costly for us, and we no longer have the production time and capacity to do this."

"We try to be as reasonably accommodating as we can. We are still a small family run local Seattle manufacturer. These types of custom pieces can literally cost us thousands of dollars in lost production time as we have to pull staff off of our normal production line while they work on a single item instead of many at a time. Most consumers are not willing to pay the real costs we incur to create unique items like this, and custom items often do not turn out the way people envision them. We do not do any customization of our clothing products. Sorry about that! The custom changes we do take on are ones related to fabrics, zippers, and down fill in our sleeping bags only."

I had read reviews from people who had garments customized, but apparently this is no longer possible. That said, I did end up getting the customized groundsheet ordered that I wanted (custom fabrics and extra down to match the warmth rating of my (also custom) sleeping bag, so it never hurts to talk to them and see what they are willing to do. Of course, you shouldn't order anything custom unless you are willing to wait the time it takes, pay an added cost, and accept that it cannot be returned.

I was personally most intrigued by a fully rectangular bag, not a mummy or semi-rectangular. I wanted something my wife and son and I use it as a quilt in conjunction with a groundsheet, and rectangular sleeping pads so that there was no gap between them on the ground. I figured a rectangular sleeping bag would be a great solo option as well and wouldn't feel as constricting as the mummy bag I used used previously. I got in touch and found that they make a few bags which are not advertised on their website due to low popularity - one of these was a 0-degree version of the Condor (http://featheredfriends.com/condor-20-nano.html). I guess most people interested in rectangular sleeping bags are interested in using them for a 2+ person setup, and most families or couples don't care to go winter camping together. Oh well. In any case, the 0-degree version has a neck collar that is not in the pictures of the warmer-rated bags, and I wanted them to add an extra 4oz of down to bring the rating to around -10 and use Pertex Shield outer fabric rather than the default Nanosphere. This was all done and the final product came out wonderful along with two matching hoods. My only mistake was ordering a stock groundsheet rather than a custom one, which ended up meaning our feet got a little bit cold if pushed all the way to the bottom of the bag, since there is a small down-filled footbox flap attached to the groundsheet, and that was much less insulated than the rest of the bag. Not the biggest deal and we were plenty warm enough at 17 degrees and slept as well as at home but I ended up ordering another groundsheet customized to have more down and custom materials as well - since I intend on using this setup for many years to come I want it as perfect as I can get it.

Feathered Friends has been a wonderful company to do business with and the products are top notch with excellent workmanship. I am going to order more winter-worthy garments (jackets, pants, and booties) from them soon, but as mentioned, those cannot no longer be customized. My hope is that wearing a base layer and down garments while in the bag will suffice in temperatures significantly below zero, while in warmer weather we can completely unzip the bag from the groundsheet, not use the hoods, etc. to be comfortable enough. It is hard for me to be "too warm" when at rest and I happily used a 15-degree mummy bag in mid-summer before, so I think it should work out well for me.

[LittleJimmy]

If you you have the dough, you will not be disappointed with an appropriate temperature Western Mountaineering bag. And you won't wish, years later, that you had bought all those second-rate ones, ending up spending more in the long run and seeing them stay hanging in the closet taking up space.

[QiWiz]

I'm in the market for a new cold weather bag. My warm weather bag is a Zpacks 30 degree bag or I use my Jacks R Better quilt. So I was considering the Zpacks 10 degree bag or the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 15. The Zpacks bag is nearly a pound lighter and I'm already familiar with their products. Does anyone have any preference or know of another option that I should consider? Thanks in advance for the advice.

I like a bag with lots of room so that I can wear extra layers like a puffy jacket without compressing sleeping bag loft from within. Western Mountaineering makes two you might look at. One is the MegaLite. Even warmer is the Badger, which is now my coldest weather bag. Down into mid-20s I'm now using JRB quilts; sold off the MegaLite as a result.

[Venchka]

I've been playing with my cold weather sleep system and have had some good success mixing down clothing and my Z-pack 30 degree bag. My intent was to cut weight by intergrating camp colthes into my sleep system and so far, so good. I think the coldest I’ve had this “system” down to is about 15 F and it’s been toasty. 0 or a little below might be pushing it and I’m hoping to find out when I head back up the SNP in Feb.

What I'm using is as follows:

- Z-pack wide and long 30 degree bag. 17 oz
- Z-pack down hood. 2 oz
- Borah gear down vest 4 oz
- Luke's down sleeves 1.5oz
- Goose feet gear down pants (baffled with 5 oz down) about 7.5oz
- Goose feet gear down booties (over stuffed) 3 oz

This cold weather ensemble gives me some flexibility to mix and match as conditions allow. Everything packs down nice and small and I generally just jam it all into the bottom of my pack’s poly-cro liner. It’s kind of a toss up as to how much weight I’m saving. The down pants are camp wear luxury imo and normally wouldn’t carry them if I had one of my winter bags. So I guess after the pants trade off I’m saving maybe a pound but also have some pimp camp wear to hang out in at night.

I’m hoping to get some cold weather in Feb and test it all down into the low single digits. Note that I’ll bee within a days walk from the trailhead so if it gets miserable I’ll suck it up thru the night and then bail back to the vehicle for my WM Versalite.


If I owned a WM Versalite, and I very nearly bought one before finding a WM Alpinlite at an attractive price, I would just take the Versalite for all of it's heat containing features (hood, collar, draft tube & foot box, and the Z-pack bag to layer over the Versalite and call it good. Since I never go anywhere without a Merino layer next to my skin, warm head gear, down vest, Xtherm and maybe add my 22" x 54" CCF pad, I reckon I would be comfortable into negative zero territory. But that's just me.

Wayne