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Just Bill
12-31-2015, 16:22
http://www.eathomas.com/2015/12/23/the-thru-hiking-101-online-course-im-developing-with-backpacker-magazine/


Snorkel- (Liz Thomas) has teamed up with BP magazine to produce a class that may be of great value to those considering a LD hike.
If nothing else- likely the class will pay for itself when you avoid dumping a few hundred at Mountain Crossings or wading through a bucket of threads.

For those (like me) little impressed with BP magazine's content over the last few years- this really popped out;


"I have total control over the content: within the hiking community, there has been a full range of passionate emotions about BP. One condition I had for putting together this course is veto power on everything."

"No gear ads/weird product placement: All the products in the video are things I actually use. The business model is 100% tuition based—so you’re not going to see an oddly out of place 7 pound pack and 10 pound tent anywhere in this class."

So looks like a great marriage of all the publishing and professional resources of BP and the thousands of miles of experience Liz brings to the table. Looks like she may have even brought a few friends to the table as well.

Dogwood
12-31-2015, 16:34
G R E A T thread topic! Liz will have some timely information to share!

Lyle
12-31-2015, 17:20
Unfortunately, she will be indoctrinating a new generation of backpackers to "speed hiking". Great.

rickb
12-31-2015, 18:07
The cost is $299.00

Just Bill
12-31-2015, 18:50
Fortunately, she will be indoctrinating a new generation of backpackers to hiking. Great!

Turn that frown upside-down.

Dogwood
12-31-2015, 23:46
Liz has much more going for her than speed hiking! And, although she is an experienced hiker she brings much more to the table than trail experience. She's quite intelligent, can address female issues, does more than speed or teach speed hiking, reaches a larger audience than just ULers or speed hikers, supports backpacking/hiking, supports a variety of trails, is involved with college hiking clubs, is an adventurer, explorer, out of the box thinker..... She's rather soft spoken, humble, tolerant, considerate of others, patient, and not pushy of an agenda other than empowering a very wide range of people to get outside to appreciate Nature and be considerate of a larger whole.

She didn't attain her resume just because she's all about speed hiking! http://www.eathomas.com/about/

For a 6 wk On Line Backpacking Class that, as Just Bill stated seems like a "great marriage of all the publishing and professional resources of BP and the thousands of miles of experience Liz brings to the table(plus all the other attributes and achievements Liz brings to the class!); looks like she may have even brought a few friends to the table as well", doesn't seem all that expensive. I'm about to spend nearly $200 alone for a weekend Wilderness First Aid recertification class that does not including traveling and room expenses.

Malto
01-01-2016, 09:55
Unfortunately, she will be indoctrinating a new generation of backpackers to "speed hiking". Great.

That is a crock of crap. There is a lot more to her than just speed hiking, in fact with the exception of the AT hike she is not at all the poster child for speed hiking.

Of of all of the classes or consulting that I have seen pitched, I would give the combination of Snorkle and BP magazine the best chance of success. While I don't believe there is a substitute for getting out and learning on your own, a lass like this could actually save the average thru hiker attempted money.

coach lou
01-01-2016, 10:25
As I sit sewing and surfing........my mind wandered to walking, places, people....somehow to Jack T.......thinking how I haven't seen a post from him anywhere lately....thinking that with the WItW hype, Jack and those pillars of LD hiking may just be busy teaching all these folks that are now going out to Conquer the AT!

Mr. Malto and Bill.....are you fella's going to make MLK IV? LI Hikers has posted are nitely camps, here....and elsewhere.:)

coach lou
01-01-2016, 10:26
"OUR" camps..........duh!

Slo-go'en
01-01-2016, 12:13
I'm not so sure an online course is going to be that helpful.

I've meet a few people who had taken Warren Doyle's AT course and said it helped them a lot. But with Doyle's course, there are a few days of classroom instruction, then a 3 day trip on the AT to get the practical experience. That's something you can't get online and it's that lack of practical camping experience which causes a lot of newbie, wannabe thru hikers to fail in the first couple weeks.

Tipi Walter
01-01-2016, 13:32
Don't see the point in paying cash money to learn how to live like a neanderthal. Just grab some blankets and a tarp and go sleep in the backyard for a week or two. Then take whatever kit you can scrounge up and go find a foot trail. Cost? 0.

Sarcasm the elf
01-01-2016, 13:48
Liz has much more going for her than speed hiking! And, although she is an experienced hiker she brings much more to the table than trail experience. She's quite intelligent, can address female issues, does more than speed or teach speed hiking, reaches a larger audience than just ULers or speed hikers, supports backpacking/hiking, supports a variety of trails, is involved with college hiking clubs, is an adventurer, explorer, out of the box thinker..... She's rather soft spoken, humble, tolerant, considerate of others, patient, and not pushy of an agenda other than empowering a very wide range of people to get outside to appreciate Nature and be considerate of a larger whole.

She didn't attain her resume just because she's all about speed hiking! http://www.eathomas.com/about/

For a 6 wk On Line Backpacking Class that, as Just Bill stated seems like a "great marriage of all the publishing and professional resources of BP and the thousands of miles of experience Liz brings to the table(plus all the other attributes and achievements Liz brings to the class!); looks like she may have even brought a few friends to the table as well", doesn't seem all that expensive. I'm about to spend nearly $200 alone for a weekend Wilderness First Aid recertification class that does not including traveling and room expenses.


What Dogwood said.

coach lou
01-01-2016, 18:30
Don't see the point in paying cash money to learn how to live like a neanderthal. Just grab some blankets and a tarp and go sleep in the backyard for a week or two. Then take whatever kit you can scrounge up and go find a foot trail. Cost? 0.


What Tipi said!

Dogwood
01-01-2016, 19:23
What the great movers and shakers in the backpacking/hiking/outdoors educating community have in common is they go beyond educating just the logistical and technical aspects of backpacking/hiking..."living in the woods"...going into the outdoors! They intertwine into their teaching other aspects like safety, environmental, trail, trail community, etc stewardship. Teaching this BEFORE and AS one aspires to backpack/hike/head off into the Natural non man made world is paramount particularly among trail communities like the AT/AT thru-hiking community. Continuing this "education" AND APPLYING IT while on trail is what is sorely lacking in some! It's what ohhh so many of us complain about but don't offer many concrete solutions for. HERE IS A SOLUTION!

Whether it be Josh and Leigh Saint, Jack T, Bob Peoples, JPD, Andrew Skurka, Backpacker, GSM and S NP Rangers, AT Ridgerunners, Jensen Bissel(YES!), The Sierra Club, NOLS, Boy Scouts?, Nature Conservancy, LIZ THOMAS, etc etc etc they ALL communicate this broader perspective. THIS is one VALUABLE aspect that can be attained with taking a class with Backpacker/Liz Thomas. It is GOOD to be influenced by these considerate wise people! It ALSO factors into why she is VP of ALDHA West, an ambassador for the American Hiking Society, is a recipient of a Doris Duke Conservation Fellowship, works with the Continental Divide Trail Coalition, is by many accounts a GOOD trail ambassador, written up so often, and WHY Backpacker decided to link up with Mrs Thomas to offer the class.

You want to address entitled self absorbed a holes with a "the rules don't apply to me, I'll do as I want and screw everyone else" attitude here's one way to avoid/decrease that issue.... promote learning from people like Liz Thomas in a 6 wk on line course rather than PERHAPS coming to that wider perspective through long term trial and error PERHAPS leaving a long term wake of destruction and negative consequences in the process.

Lone Wolf
01-01-2016, 19:48
Don't see the point in paying cash money to learn how to live like a neanderthal. Just grab some blankets and a tarp and go sleep in the backyard for a week or two. Then take whatever kit you can scrounge up and go find a foot trail. Cost? 0.


What Tipi said!

agree. the AT is easy logistically. everything one needs to know is here on this website. not much planning is needed at all to walk the trail. it really is just walkin'

Singletrack
01-01-2016, 22:49
Prefer to learn things by myself. More fun! And figure things out myself. Life is full of failures, which provide teachable moments. And like someone said, it's just walking.

Feral Bill
01-01-2016, 23:36
For a lot of people (the less experienced), I expect that the cost of the course would be less than the cost of a couple logistical errors.

Tipi Walter
01-02-2016, 00:06
For a lot of people (the less experienced), I expect that the cost of the course would be less than the cost of a couple logistical errors.

We were all less experienced at one time. You can't buy heart---and it's heart which motivates people to live outdoors. And even the most experienced like Kate Matrosova make logistical errors. It's still called Wilderness for a reason.

Dogwood
01-02-2016, 01:38
Don't see the point in paying cash money to learn how to live like a neanderthal. Just grab some blankets and a tarp and go sleep in the backyard for a week or two. Then take whatever kit you can scrounge up and go find a foot trail. Cost? 0.


We were all less experienced at one time. You can't buy heart---and it's heart which motivates people to live outdoors. And even the most experienced like Kate Matrosova make logistical errors. It's still called Wilderness for a reason.

What people can learn is NOT just how to live like a Neanderthal. They can learn how to live like more responsible Neanderthals. :) They might learn some trail and environmental stewardship. What is the very great costs -what is at stake - if they don't? They might learn to be aware of more than just themselves as you have BUT IN A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME! If there has ever been a needed time for this IT IS NOW! MAYBE, just maybe, then you will not come across so much hiker/survivalist trash you so graciously haul out, campfire rings loaded with intentionally left behind trash, and actually might have more offers to assist in trail maintenance in the areas you frequently hike and camp. MAYBE, just maybe, if people were more influenced from BEFORE they first stepped into the Wilderness we would see more caring for it, respecting it, actions demonstrating a greater environmental awareness, and more flow with it AND there would be more cherishing of Nature and Wilderness that we all so enjoy!

Can't we all appreciate more responsible trail behavior and see a greater need for it??? Let's not fight other people who promote this very premise especially when they have a very public platform to influence a large audience? You do it in your way. Others are doing it in their way. Don't cut their throat because you took a different path to get where you're currently at in your greater awarness. You're on the same team with the same goals as Backpacker/Liz Thomas.


agree. the AT is easy logistically. everything one needs to know is here on this website. not much planning is needed at all to walk the trail. it really is just walkin'

Perhaps it is "jus walkin" but isn't it damn nice when hikers act responsibly with some admirable character in Damascus? Isn't it nice when you find a great campsite and someone has decided to not leave behind a fresh dump and TP blossom in the middle of it? Isn't it nice when you find an established campsite where you don't find fresh living trees having been cut down for a fire? Isn't it NICE when someone wants to open a Hostel in Front Royal and not be greeted by the town's people having a poor image of the AT hiking community that the Hostel permits are denied? Isn't it nice when you DO NOT see a sign in a restaurant window saying NO HIKERS! Wouldn't it be commendable that AT thru-hikers exhibited such exemplary considerate behavior other than just being so AT and self absorbed in BSP that BSP no longer felt compelled to send a letter to the ATC and AT community regarding this community's behavior?

Of course, you don't necessarily need to pay for a class to learn these things, but sure is nice to allow others to spread these attitudes who have amply demonstrated this ability personally in their actions? MAYBE, just maybe, it is more than "jus walkin?" MAYBE, just maybe, it's about demonstrating some more talent and a greater conscientiousness than the ability to "jus walk?":confused::-?:rolleyes:

cmoulder
01-02-2016, 09:09
Very well put, Dogwood.https://www.emojibase.com/resources/img/emojis/symbola/1f44d.png

rickb
01-02-2016, 09:26
Courses serve all sorts of good purposes-- not the least of which might be to give some the confidence to move forward with thier hikes.

Others help insure success.

That can be measured, too. Those taking Warren Doyle's course enjoy a tremendously high completion rate, for example.

While it is a high bar to reach, Snorkle has the hiking experience to achieve similar results over the coming years. If she does, that would be another remarkable feather in her cap.

Slo-go'en
01-02-2016, 13:10
That can be measured, too. Those taking Warren Doyle's course enjoy a tremendously high completion rate, for example.

I believe the success of Doyle's course is the hands on experience. Can that be duplicated by an online course? I suppose time will tell.

Mags
01-02-2016, 16:16
Unfortunately, she will be indoctrinating a new generation of backpackers to "speed hiking". Great.

I know Liz very well (she's been in my living room a few times now. Think that qualifies) . While she can be a speedy hiker, I sincerely doubt she will "indoctrinate" that her way is the one, true way to hike. If anything, students will catch her enthusiasm for the outdoors.


And, yes, it is $299..but some people want a class, instruction, etc. As others pointed out, it may save money. I paid $250 for my EMS 5500 back in 1996 (or $380 in today' dollar...yowsers) as just one example. :)

I am excited for her and for those who think it is something they want.

Also, the reach is more than the AT. The lessons will apply to any long trail.

Mountain Bluebird
01-02-2016, 18:52
This is:

+3

what Tipi said.

in closing
"You search out my paths and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways." Ps 139

colorado_rob
01-02-2016, 19:03
Hah! Seemingly a correlation of age and shunning of such courses.... but this old fart thinks such instruction is fantastic for building enthusiasm for these endeavors. The real learning comes from experience, but such courses are a great jump start.

Our colorado mountain club teaches a fantastic suite of courses from trekking to ice climbing to high altitude mountaineering and our club members response to these courses has always been very positive. Same principle; the actual courses provide the jump start.

garlic08
01-02-2016, 21:34
I wish Snorkel well in this endeavor. If you meet Liz, hear her talk, see her smile, see her around other hikers, you know her heart is in a good place. There's no evil indoctrination plot going on!

As far as taking newbie courses go, I'm all for it and it's great to see the availability. Coincident with the start of my backpacking career, I took a survival course in Boulder from this guy (http://www.wisesurvival.com/InMemoriam.shtml) (may he RIP). I took courses in avalanche safety from the CAIC (http://avalanche.state.co.us/). A few years ago I was involved with the Arizona Trail Assn and helped give free classes at Phoenix REI stores for AZT wanna-bes. They were all packed, energetic, and lots of fun (and patently non-commercial, since REI sells practically none of the stuff in my pack).

It's nice to think everyone can self-develop the skills to walk out into the woods and walk out safely again a week or so later. But many can't or won't and have no way of gaining them without paying for tuition. If you get the hiking bug and nobody else in your family or community has it, where do you learn? If we could all learn stuff on our own, there would be no schools. I like the example of reading a book about swimming then jumping in the water.

Dogwood
01-03-2016, 00:17
I believe the success of Doyle's course is the hands on experience. Can that be duplicated by an online course? I suppose time will tell.

Well, Warren's ATI class success has something to do with him having romped up and down the AT from end to end some 16 times too!!!

Warren's $300 class(donation) is focused on LD backpacking on the AT not backpacking in general. Lots of carry over but still AT focused.

Just Bill
01-03-2016, 22:52
Thankfully fer Liz, I don't think grumpy farts with a few decades of hiking experience are the target audience. :)

Some learn by readin, some by doing, some only honor edumacation earned from the school of hard knocks, some folks are just stubborn and ain't learned much at all really...

Fer those who don't learn that way...

An IPhone costs $600+ and at best lasts you two years.
If a $300 class can get you out on a long trail successfully, you'll have a lifetime of enjoyment from it.

More importantly the trail may get more hikers from a generation who generally lacks the opportunities and avenues that most of us took when we got started.

I'll gladly thank and respect any who have come before me, and care only slightly if you got here as an Eagle Scout, slugging beer, running on a crew, or sittin in a slightly mobile tipi.
My children will heartily appreciate those folks who find their way on the trail now, and likely won't give a damn how they got there truth be told, they'll just care that they stuck around.

If you got a better plan to pass on your knowledge please step up and do so.

All our trails need lifelong friends, not unprepared dreamers who run back to town after a week.
I think it's a shame so many show up at the door looking to get in and end up going back to town for lack of little more than a couple of days of basic education that most here could share if they cared to do so.

An if'n you value your time on the trail so much, why would you get in the way of any looking to do the same?

xMagnolia
01-03-2016, 23:16
Some people had the unfortunate birth circumstances of being born to city folk. They haven't been exposed to what you might consider "common" in your sense and would like to learn a little more before they run willy nilly into the wilderness so that they and those around them can enjoy it more on their first tries instead of spending it all learning lessons the hard way. We didn't all get grow up being Boy Scouts or living off the land, gathering knowledge from our forefathers.

I think it's a great idea.

Scrum
01-04-2016, 00:08
If a $300 class can get you out on a long trail successfully, you'll have a lifetime of enjoyment from it.

Well said Just Bill. The sentence quoted above is me. I did some peak bagging in my youth out in Colorado, but when middle age settled in, and family responsibilities took over, the most we did was the occasional day hike or a weekend at an AMC lodge. I felt intimidated by the idea of going out into the woods overnight.

So I took a class though my local chapter of the AMC on hiking and backpacking that included a group hike of my first 4000 footer in NH, and was hooked. I did some hiking on my own and as my confidence grew began to do overnights to AMC huts with my daughters.

Next I took a Wilderness First Aid class, which gave me the confidence to do multi night hut-to-hut hikes with the entire family.

After that I did a seminar with JPD (my wife and daughters also did the class). That got us comfortable with staying in a tent or shelter. This had a huge impact on all of us, both the information Jen provided and her enthusaiam for hiking (it is infectious).

Now, my teenage daughters like nothing more than to grab the tent and head out with me for a hike on the AT in the Whites. My wife will even stay in a tent. I have taken up winter hiking, with I do with a growing group of friends who had little experience hiking before I dragged them along. Our family summer vacations are planned around a week of hiking at the AMC's Cold River Camp (http://www.amccoldrivercamp.org). I serve as a hike leader at CRC which, in part, involves helping others get more comfortable with and knowledgable about hiking.

Most importantly, hiking has become a passion that keeps me in shape, keeps me positive, keeps me balanced, and has provided wonderful moments with my wife and daughters.

All because my wife got me to sign up for an AMC hiking class.

We need more people who care about the trails and know how to hike in a way that is respectful to fellow hikers and the environment. Classes, if done right, will only help with this goal. I am living proof of it. I really don't understand why others would be critical of Snorkel doing an online class that will only encourage others to join the ranks of those who love the AT and other trails. Maybe it will not help you, but it will certainly be very useful to others.