View Full Version : How many of you bought the wrong gear?
kimbur96
01-11-2016, 13:42
I'm brand new at this and at times the information seems over whelming. I don't want to buy the wrong thing and waste money but at the same time at some point I have to make a decision.
For instance looking to buy my first stove. Leaning towards the pocket rocket. Gets pretty decent reviews. Not to crazy expensive. I definitely want a fuel canister stove. Alcohol in a bottle scares me, goes back to drag racing days as a kid, but I digress. Then I read about another canister stove that had a better wind screen. So I started to doubt my decision.
Am I doing too much research and just need to pull the trigger knowing I will probably at some point replace parts?
Your wisdom and input encouraged, TIA
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Gambit McCrae
01-11-2016, 13:58
I have gone through 3 kits(pretty much full setups), and if money isn't the problem then everyone can give you their opinion. I am in product development as a profession, (although not in textiles), and it is very difficult to filter through all the jargon and technical reviews. I can break it down into 3 main categories for you:
1-Price
2-Durability
3-Weight
You VERY rarely find all 3 in 1 product. There is going to be a trade off along the line. That's what makes it interesting and hard to pin point on the first go because as you develop your experience as a hiker, you learn what's important to you.
As time has gone on I would say I have forfeited Durability(there is a difference in durability and quality) Batesville casket company makes the highest quality caskets on the market, but you drop a golf ball on the hood and you'll see a non durable reaction.
I have learned to take care of my stuff, and therefor durability can be sacrificed. What's the pay off in this? Its lighter, and more expensive :)
1-When I look for gear the main things I look for are:
The Company: Has the company been around for a while?
What are the reflections on their Customer Service?
2-How much am I seeing the gear used by experienced people: For Example; If I go on a hiking trip and I see 20 boy scouts all using Kelty packs but I only see 1 ridgerunner (profession Hiker of sorts) using a ULA Circuit and at the end of my trip I have to choose? Sorry Tenderfoot I'm going with the Circuit.
On another note of $$$
No one goes golfing 1 time, enjoys it and goes out to spend a couple K on golf clubs. So the question is do you know you like backpacking enough to worry about the gear that much? If you haven't put in a good many trips, having good and bad experiences, just use what you can find until you get used to that gear and say " yes sometimes this is completely miserable and I'm okay with that" Then at that point you can worry about weeding out the gear and finding what you want. Some people are do it your selfers, I personally don't 99% of the time.
In the end everyone weighs 1,2, and 3 differently to some scale, so you gotta find what works.
Studlintsean
01-11-2016, 13:59
I'm brand new at this and at times the information seems over whelming. I don't want to buy the wrong thing and waste money but at the same time at some point I have to make a decision.
For instance looking to buy my first stove. Leaning towards the pocket rocket. Gets pretty decent reviews. Not to crazy expensive. I definitely want a fuel canister stove. Alcohol in a bottle scares me, goes back to drag racing days as a kid, but I digress. Then I read about another canister stove that had a better wind screen. So I started to doubt my decision.
Am I doing too much research and just need to pull the trigger knowing I will probably at some point replace parts?
Your wisdom and input encouraged, TIA
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have no regrets buying the Pocket Rocket (or any other gear). I did buy a "heavier" set of backpacking gear when I first really got into backpacking years ago but I was able to learn with the more durable gear and once I became more experienced I moved into tarps, single wall tents, down bags, etc. I still have some of my original gear and use it as loaners when I can convince friends to tag along.
Puddlefish
01-11-2016, 14:00
I bought a few impulse purchases after minimal research that I regretted, and have already replaced. People here were very helpful in critiquing my proposed gear list. Set it up on lighterpack.com, give some info on your proposed start date, experience level, that type of thing. You'll probably still make a few mistakes, but you'll minimize them and recover.
For me, I decided that I wanted a pot with a pour spout, so I bought a lightweight titanium kettle... which is cheap, functional and light, and just flat out the wrong shape to nest with any other gear in my cook set.
I bought a sleeping bag, without checking my shoulder girth first. It's a little tight, but not unworkable.
My attempt to make my own cheap alcohol stove set me back $50 of various materials. Carrying pressurized fuel scares me more than alcohol, both are perfectly safe when treated properly, funny how we all have our own little phobias.
Sarcasm the elf
01-11-2016, 14:03
Doing research is important, but don't drive yourself nuts. There is a lot of good gear, but there is no perfect gear, everything involves tradeoffs between price, weight, functionality, durability etc. You will end up replacing stuff as your experience increases and as your personal preferences change so make peace with that. A good portion of my lightweight gear that is "perfect" for me now wouldn't have been the correct gear for me when I was first starting out, in many instances experience can replace weight as you learn better ways of doing things and become more comfortable in the woods. The good news is that high quality used gear fetches a decent price if you decide to sell something and replace it.
It reminds me of a quote I saw recently:
"If you're a hiker giving advice and you're telling people the "right way" or the "best way," you're not qualified to give advice because you haven't yet learned that there's no right way or best way." -Jester
My guiding principle: Buy quality once. It's always less expensive in the long run.
In this case, I'll add a modifier: Gambit McCrae nailed it. When you know that you are serious about backpacking, see sentence 1.
Wayne
My mistakes, with few exceptions, have always been the result of being penny wise but pound foolish. I've reconciled myself to the idea of paying up for quality. I backpack enough days per year to make this worthwhile for me. I paid up for my zPacks tent but the cost per night is now around $4.75 and will probably be under $3 before the tent's useful life is over. While looking at things in that context may be a justification to overspend if you really are doing a lot of backpacking getting quality makes sense.
Sarcasm the elf
01-11-2016, 14:11
To add another wrench inthe works, much of the best gear is made small manufacturers and you won't find it at REI or EMS. Here is just one list of many of these companies:
http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/12378/cottage-backpacking-gear-directory/
Gambit McCrae
01-11-2016, 14:16
Doing research is important, but don't drive yourself nuts. There is a lot of good gear, but there is no perfect gear, everything involves tradeoffs between price, weight, functionality, durability etc. You will end up replacing stuff as your experience increases and as your personal preferences change so make peace with that. A good portion of my lightweight gear that is "perfect" for me now wouldn't have been the correct gear for me when I was first starting out, in many instances experience can replace weight as you learn better ways of doing things and become more comfortable in the woods. The good news is that high quality used gear fetches a decent price if you decide to sell something and replace it.
It reminds me of a quote I saw recently:
"If you're a hiker giving advice and you're telling people the "right way" or the "best way," you're not qualified to give advice because you haven't yet learned that there's no right way or best way." -Jester
Why did it only take you 1 paragraph in what took me a newspaper?? :datz haha
To add another wrench inthe works, much of the best gear is made small manufacturers and you won't find it at REI or EMS. Here is just one list of many of these companies:
http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/12378/cottage-backpacking-gear-directory/
I would strangely suggest working off of this list of companies before trying the big name brands.
Example; I got tired of seeing a bunch of folks wearing these cool light ULA packs, so I called up Chris and gave him the situation:
I'm 6'4" but just cant find a pack that is right for me due to the scoliosis screwed up back issue. His response?
After talking with him about what I liked and disliked about all the packs I had previously tried, and even requested that I send him pictures of my upper body structure. And sent me a pack off of his recommendations.
Well, woops we tried and messed up, too big. His response was, "I know you wanted this pack for your final Georgia section of the AT next weekend, so I will OVERNIGHT you a new pack so that you get to go ahead and enjoy your new pack." Who does this? haha Small companies, ran and owned by backpackers. A+++ experience with Chris and love my ULA pack
fastfoxengineering
01-11-2016, 14:27
I still hammock, but the hammock I use now isn't even remotely close to the same design as the one I first bought.
I still cook, but my cookset isn't even remotely close to the same design as the one I first bought.
I still wear clothes, but my clothing system isn't even remotely close to the same system I first bought.
I still start fires, wait.... I still use a mini-bic just like the one I first bought!!!
I don't think you'll ever find a hiker who hasn't retired some gear to improve his kit. There is no end all gear list. Even people who do research and buy proper gear for a thru hike of the AT. Well sure it'll serve them well and they'll have a good kit to help them get to maine, but by the time they get to Maine and seeing everyone else's gear, they made find they like these features or don't need/want this that or whatever thingamabob. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. You'll only learn through experience.
But long live the Mini-Bic lighter ;)
Make educated choices but, be willing to make mistakes. The stove, water treatment, shelter or backpack that works for others might work for you but, ...
Anything you have or will have is a compromise with perfection. How far from perfection you are willing to tolerate will determine whether it is a "mistake" that needs corrected. Simply because a piece of gear is a compromise does not necessarily make it "the wrong gear".
Yes, buying once is ideal but I promise, "You will always find something that will work better." Does that make the initial purchase "wrong"? No, just part of the learning process.
Take risks. Make kistakes. <= punny, right?
Gambit McCrae
01-11-2016, 14:50
As well, Unless you only hike in the same seasons youll be buying gear that is more in tune with that season example sleeping bag
It was 10* this morning, if I was on the trail I would want a 0* bag, where as in June I would not
Patrickjd9
01-11-2016, 15:34
I'm generally pretty cautious in buying gear and have only made a few real mistakes in 30+ years of hiking. Two come to mind. One is a Katadyn gravity water filter that has proven hard to use with water containers and keep dirty and clean sides separated, the other is an L.L. Bean sleeping bag that was too tight on the shoulders. I still have the sleeping bag, and it has been used by my daughter and loaned to numerous kids over the years. I will replace the filter before my next trip.
I'm also willing to live with things that aren't ideal, as long as they are serviceable. I'd like a tent I can sit up in while using an air mattress, but haven't bought it in several years of thinking about it.
DuneElliot
01-11-2016, 15:50
I am also fairly new to backpacking, but not to hiking and camping, or horse packing. As such, I already knew what I liked and what worked from my other experiences. Other than a backpack, I knew that investing in light-weight gear would not be a waste because it would get used no matter what. The backpack, for me, was the biggest unknown I splurged on because I haven't done that much of it. I also did an insane amount of research, reading reviews from dozens of different places and types of users.
I don't know of too many people who don't like their pocket, canister stoves (I have two), or their Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 tent or their ZPacks or Enlightened Equipment quilts/sleeping bags or their ZPacks or ULA packs. There is a reason these are popular and you probably won't go wrong with any of them.
I bet most people here have at least 2-3 of every piece of equipment for different set-ups. I know I have 3 tents, 4 sleeping bags, 8 stoves, 3 sleeping pads...and not because I bought wrong or wasted money on something that didn't work...but I take different tents on different trips (Lunar Solo and EE sleeping quilt for BP, 6-person tent, cowboy bedroll and cot for base camp when horse camping).
I think, if you can, borrow equipment and see what you like the best.
The best way to learn about gear is to get out on the trail and figure out what works for you and talk to other hikers and see what gear they are using and why. Spring on the southern AT is a great place to do this because you will literally encounter a couple of dozen people a day, all with different gear. If you are starting from nothing, buy the lightest stuff you can afford. I try to achieve a balance between price and weight. I'm not going to spend $600 on a pack just to get one that weighs under 3 pounds...but I'm going to find the lightest pack I can in my price range. Same thing for a tent. I recently found a 3 1/2 pound tent for $37 on clearance. A couple of years ago I found a 30 degree sleeping bag that weighs 2 pounds for $39.99. If you aren't in a hurry and are willing to wait for sales you can get a lot of this stuff pretty inexpensively. You can also buy cheap crap and then replace it with better gear as you gain experience and figure out what your needs are.
Blissful
01-11-2016, 16:32
Buying the wrong gear is part of the hiking exeperience. What works for one doesn't work for another Which is why returns are good to have etc. when purchasing.
Wow, what a refreshing thread, there is discussion on trade offs. Many gear threads are "What is the perfect ______." If there was a perfect ______ then everyone would use it and there would be no competitors.
The reason you will likely go through a couple generations of gear (if you continue hiking ) is because experience will change your perspective on gear. I would never in a million years recommend a new hiker use my gear, they would likely be wet, cold and uncomfortable. It took me many years to get the knowledge to hone my gear to where it is at today.
So so given the above posts here is my reco.
1) don't worry so much about gear starting out. Just get out and hike and make sure you like it.
2) cut the items you take, it's free.
3) once you know you will be hiking for years to come, sap out your big items such as sleeping bag, pad and shelter. Notice pack is not on there.
4) you can get quality and lightweight gear second hand. You won't get it for pennies on the dollar but you will see a discount. Backpackinglight is a great place for used gear.
5) if you do 4&5 and it doesn't work out, sell it. you can often get full resale price.
6) best gear to spend money, sleeping bag or quilt. Don't skimp on this.
7) worst gear to spend money -accessories. You likely don't need it anyway.
8) when you think you have the rest of your gear sorted out then buy a quality pack.
Bonus: Gear selection is all about trade offs. gambit hit the big three: Price, durability, weight. But there are many more. A shelter has ease of setup, footprint, storm bulletproofness etc. the more you understand these trade offs the better informed your decisions will be. Experience allows you to do this.
... I'd like a tent I can sit up in while using an air mattress, but haven't bought it in several years of thinking about it.
I've been using air mattresses in tents since I started backpacking. I can always sit up in the tent while seated on the air mattress. Why? Because when I sit up my sit bones are either lightly touching the floor of the tent or just barely off the floor. Otherwise, I have too much air in the mattress.
I thought everyone knew that.
As for gear mistakes:
Backpack #1: External frame pack from REI. Their lowest priced model in the Dark Ages. Almost crippled me. Sold it.
Backpack #5: Boreas Gear Lost Coast 60. Made in China. Labeled medium. Actual size: Extra Small. Returned.
I still have and use Backpacks #2-4. Made in USA.
Sleeping Bag #4: The North Face 15 F Hightail 3S. Made in China. Where should I start. Snagging zipper. Exaggerated down weight, total weight and temperature rating. Compared side by side with my WM Antelope: No contest. Returned.
Bags 1-3 & 5: I still have 2,3 & 5. My granddaughter has #1. It's older than her mother. Made in USA.
Tent #1: Returned to The North Face for repair. They replaced it with Tent #2 which I recently sold to a friend. That may have been a mistake. Imports-not sure where.
I'm keeping and using Tent #3. Made in USA.
Updates:
NeoAir Xtherm replaced a Therm-A-Rest self-inflating pad which I still have. Made in USA.
WM Alpinlite, Bag #5, replaced the REI bag I gave to my granddaughter.
Stoves #1-#3 & Cookset #1 & #2: All in service depending on my needs & mood. Made in USA, Sweden or Switzerland.
Do you see a pattern here?
Wayne
I can tell you my experience. A year and a half ago I wanted to get into backpacking. I cared at the time and I still do care more about $$$ then I do the weight of my gear. So I bought a cheap REI Passage II on sale. With it's footprint, it was nearly 6 lbs. The weight wasn't a big issue to me. Weight rarely is, but the tent's size was a huge issue. I was struggling to get all my gear and that tent into my pack, an REI Flash 62 that someone here recommended and that I still use. My pack weight was likely 36-37 lbs. Not a big deal, but my pack felt like it was bursting at the seams. I loved the tent. Huge, 2 person tent. I loved it. I would have dealt with its weight if it were not for size. Mind you, this is a very, very, very small minority position in the hiking community.
A friend I met here had an extra tent. A Six Moon Design Scout. I used it 1 night and bought it from him. I took my REI Passage II back. I am still using that Scout 1 1/2 years later. It is about 3 1/2 lbs lighter, but SIGNIFICANTLY more importantly, it was MUCH smaller. It fits in my pack easily. I love it.
I have other examples, but I think the above story makes the point.
You kind of wont know what you like until you start using it on the trail. There are so many options. It can be overwhelming. It sounds like you are at that point. With the best information you have before you, pull the trigger. You will go nuts otherwise.
Mind you, this is a post from someone who absolutely hates talking about gear.
the only thing I still use that I started hiking with is worn out - I sure wish I could get a new one - it's my body
sliverstorm
01-11-2016, 18:50
I've made plenty of mistakes! You will too.
One thing I will argue is that while quality is worth paying for, you need to temper that with the knowledge that you're in over your head at first.
For example, my first stove was a micro rocket. Great stove! But it turned out I mostly use stoves for melting snow & making freeze dried food, neither of which it excels at.
Not to mention, I learned how to fit packs incorrectly, so my first pack was a great pack, but too big!
(I could go on)
So drag your feet. Try to put off purchases until you have a better idea what you really need.
If you can, rent first.
Wayne
JumpMaster Blaster
01-11-2016, 20:06
First off, go with the Pocket Rocket. Take it for a test drive or ten. Chances are, you'll like it (I have one), but you may wind up using a cat stove (I have one), or a Jetboil may suit you better (I have one).
As for gear, there's a tradeoff between high quality, low weight and low cost. You won't get all three in any one item, so buy what you think hits the sweet spot for you. I'd say starting out don't sweat the high end stuff yet. Get a pack that's fitted properly, pick out one of the "starter" tents, and get a sleeping bag/ mat combo that won't kill you out in the weather. If after a few times out you stil llike backpacking, invest a little more in better gear.
I, like others here who have way more experience doing this, have about 2.5 full sets of gear, all amassed in the last 4 years. It's a process. You'll get there. Keep asking questions, do some research and you'll find your answers.
Trail Designs for Weight
https://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-keg-f-stove-system
Jet Boil Flash Lite for Speed
http://www.rei.com/product/791308/jetboil-flash-cooking-system
But that being said all I do is boil water and make coffee and rehydrate food. Short trips 3-5 days alcohol. 3 week trip with altitude - Jetboil
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bigcranky
01-11-2016, 20:44
Jet Boil for fuel efficiency, too, as well as blazing fast speed. The Pocket Rocket is fine, but these days there are better stoves out there IMHO.
Do some research, but don't get so bogged down in the details that you go crazy. Buy some gear, get out and hike, take notes on what works well and what doesn't. It takes a few years to really dial in your kit. I think most hikers who've been doing it awhile can point to some really bad gear choices over the years.
That said, these days there are a lot more choices of excellent, lightweight, well designed gear. When I compare my current kit to what I started with twenty five years ago, it's really quite amazing.
lonehiker
01-11-2016, 21:27
Ya, you are over-thinking it. Do a reasonable amount of research then make the purchase. So you might end up with a stove that boils a cup of water 15 seconds slower. Will that really matter?
Vegan Packer
01-11-2016, 21:47
I do a lot of research, probably way more than most. Even with this, I still ended out ditching a bunch of gear for other pieces. Unfortunately, it is pretty hard to come up with one kit and then keep that without making changes. As you gain experience, you will find that there were things that happened that you never thought about, and you will realize that you made some mistakes with your choices.
One big thing that I have learned is that it is absolutely worth the extra money to buy the lightest and best quality in class. A big mistake that I made at first was to think that a couple of pounds, more or less, don't matter. I hated carrying the extra weight to the point that I ended out ditching the first gear and then buying what I should have bought in the first place, only to end out spending more than if I had just given in and paid full retail for everything, from the outset. Just save until you can buy what you really want, and don't try to talk yourself into anything less.
If you can rent some gear and try it out, that is a great way to find out about some of the pieces you are considering.
Don't skimp on comfort. I am not a youngster anymore, and I am not willing to sleep uncomfortably. Yes, I have the lightest gear out there for what that gear is, but it is also real gear, not sleeping in the dirt without a bug screen. Things like full size pads are night and day better than saving the weight and then getting a bad night's sleep.
Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned stoves, I bought the Micro Rocket, and it worked really well. However, in my never ending quest to lighten the load, I just purchased a BRS 3000T stove (http://www.amazon.com/BRS-Ultralight-Camping-Outdoor-Cooking/dp/B00NNMF70U) for this coming season. It is lighter, and it was very inexpensive. It has great reviews. The quest continues....
Good luck in your search.
I never purchased the wrong gear. It was the right gealr when I bought it. Sometimes, I found there was different, or better, gear that fitted my hiking style better.
Heliotrope
01-11-2016, 23:43
Your hiking style will develop with time and experience and your gear choices will reflect that. Doing lots of research can help you see what's possible. I like to see what very experienced hikers use after multiple thru hikes. Some of the best gear is made by cottage companies. One does not simply walk into REI and find this gear.
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I never purchased the wrong gear. It was the right gealr when I bought it. Sometimes, I found there was different, or better, gear that fitted my hiking style better.
I agree. It an evolutionary process.
Harrison Bergeron
01-12-2016, 13:02
Half the fun of hiking is the gear. So what's the fun of guessing right first time?
If your hike is just a check-off item on a bucket list and you never plan to set foot in the woods again after you wash out at Neels Gap, then pick any one of the dozens of gear lists on this site with a 20 pound base weight and don't worry about it -- you're planning to selling it all in a few months, anyway, right? I'd just caution you to stay around 20 pounds because an ultra-light kit could be dangerous for a newbee.
But if you're taking up hiking as a hobby, get used to reveling in the gear swaps! Think of it as the fun part that you get to do when you're not hiking.
FooFooCuddlyPoops
01-12-2016, 13:56
My experience with gear...I have bought a lot of it, but I have only wasted money once. For the gear I bought that was too heavy, I use it car camping with friends. I now have two child size sleeping bag mummy's for my nephews. (goodwill find that I didn't realize we're child size)
the he only time I wasted money...I bought a pack that ended up digging into my shoulders. I couldn't return it so I gave it to a Freind as her beginner hiking pack.
honestly, start out with other people's stuff. Experiment from there, lol.
sliverstorm
01-12-2016, 14:49
One big thing that I have learned is that it is absolutely worth the extra money to buy the lightest and best quality in class.
Sometimes? Yes. As a rule? Strongly disagree. There are items with such poor price-vs-marginal-improvement ratios that they only make sense if you are wealthy enough to not care, or if you use them hard & constantly, e.g. a working mountain professional.
I especially object given we are in a thread talking to a brand new hiker. They are most prone (I know because I used to be one) to getting completely the wrong item (Tent when he should have gone tarp. 45L pack when all he needs is 25L).
On my first trips, I had a Hollofill 2 sleeping bag, an old Eureka tent with fiberglass poles, an discount store external frame pack and one of those Coleman 1 lb propane burner stoves.
It was the "wrong" gear even 20 years ago.
But I got out there, enjoyed myself and learned some skills that went forward for all my backpacking.
Don't worry about the RIGHT gear. Get some gear that works with some input, but don't stress if one 3oz canister stove is better than another 3 oz canister stove.
One strategy (if you have the time) is to buy used things that look like they would fill a need and try them out. If they end up not working for you, I find I can often resell them them for little or no loss of $$. I would be cautious in buying insulation (sleeping bags, puffy jackets, etc) that are used, but even this can work if you are cautious and can check out the reputation of the seller. Venues to look for gear would include WB, eBay, backpackinglight, hammockgear, and other busy online forums. Can you dig it?
Don't obsess over gear. No matter how much one knows we can always know more. Happily without undue stress embrace knowing that you don't know everything. RELAX. Perfection is a highway rarely a destination. As my Navy recruiter said "be the BEST that you can be."
One Half
01-12-2016, 21:20
Buy your gear where you can return it if you don't like it. Then go USE it. Even if it's just on your back yard. Use it. And if you don't like it in the backyard you will probably hate it on the trail. It's not going to get better when you are tired, cold and wet and it's dark out.
A friend just recently bought a pack from REI and she said she has a year to return it. I loaned her mine to "test out" as it's probably a pound lighter and just a tiny bit bigger than hers. If she likes mine she will likely get the most recent version of it and return the pack she already has.
What a great thread.
I certainly picked up some stuff I wish I hadn't bothered with now (like the huge water filter - use a Sawyer Mini now), but it is all part of the fun.
Sometimes old stuff that you thought was no good can turn out to be useful years later. 20 years ago I picked up an inexpensive, locally made day pack when I lived in Eastern Europe - really basic. To narrow to even be a book bag, no structure to shift weight to the hips, to small for anything serious. I shoved it in the basement and forgot about it. A couple of years ago I found it again, an it now serves as my "UL" day pack. I love it and the pack is truly one of a kind!
One Half
01-12-2016, 21:21
If you can, rent first.
Wayne
This is a great option. It's cheaper to rent something and decide you don't like it then to buy something and not like it.
Oh dear God yes! I'm a sucker for new different gear and talked myself into buying one of the Aarn backpacks with the chest mounted bags. Some people swear by them but I wound up swearing at them. I traded it in for an Osprey at about 300 miles and never looked back.
poolskaterx
01-13-2016, 22:01
Since you asked about stoves I will tell you my experience.
Out of all my gear (98%) that I have replaced in the last few years after going light I still have my little optimus crux weekend set, it did not get replaced. For a cook set that seems to boil faster than any Jet boil, can simmer, packs down tiny, and is pretty decent in weight I have not found a better replacement for it for the cost vs oz comparison. Have used this stove for over 3 years now without issue- strong wind has to be blocked or it can be blown out or greatly affects heat output but that is the same for any stove.
v1k1ng1001
01-13-2016, 22:38
Oh, and by the way, since you mentioned stoves, I bought the Micro Rocket, and it worked really well. However, in my never ending quest to lighten the load, I just purchased a BRS 3000T stove (http://www.amazon.com/BRS-Ultralight-Camping-Outdoor-Cooking/dp/B00NNMF70U) for this coming season. It is lighter, and it was very inexpensive. It has great reviews. The quest continues....
Good luck in your search.
I just limped my way through the OML in Big Bend with this stove. Got mine for $11. I'm not sure how durable it will be over the long haul but it worked extremely well with a 500 to 750ml titanium pot of the sort we like to carry. My worry with these cheapie Chinese stoves is to what extent they will get gunked up as you use them. Then again, you can buy 4 of them for the in store price of the rocket.
The tried and true catfood can stove with windscreen was a winner for me all summer at lower altitudes. Simple reliable and cheap!
If you want to maximize efficiency over 7+ day treks then the jet boil might be an effective way to carry fewer canisters but it will cost you.
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v1k1ng1001
01-13-2016, 22:55
Additionally, there are three new to me items that have been kicking butt for me this year...light heart gear so long 6, klymit insulated static V and ula circuit. Oooh...and my prana brion and zion pants!
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Spirit Walker
01-14-2016, 00:05
I hiked before the internet. I had very little experience. I read a few books on backpacking and the AT and got conflicting advice that wasn't very helpful. So I went to the outdoor store and said I wanted the biggest pack they had because I was going for a six month hike. I got the biggest baddest leather boots they had, because I wanted them to last. I bought lightweight jeans and t-shirts, because I was used to desert hiking where cotton was what we wore. I planned 14 day food carries because I thought I wouldn't want to hitchhike.
Guess what? It didn't matter. Yes, my boots gave me blisters. My pack was huge, heavy and uncomfortable. But I still made it to Katahdin. It isn't what's on your back that ensures a good hike, it's what's in your head. Having the perfect gear is a lot less important than having a good attitude.
If you make mistakes, you can always exchange what you bought for something that works better. The AT isn't the middle of nowhere. Or you can do what I did, and just make do.
One Half
01-14-2016, 00:55
No such thing as the wrong gear. It's all just a learning experience.
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I've bought the wrong stuff. Probably everyone does. But the times when I went completely off the tracks were when I got bit by the "gotta-have" bug. Lots of that in these forums. You can find yourself lusting after the newest nmnm that weights half what yours does easily. But will it really make your hike better? That's what we learn from experience.
kimbur96
01-14-2016, 10:02
I hiked before the internet. I had very little experience. I read a few books on backpacking and the AT and got conflicting advice that wasn't very helpful. So I went to the outdoor store and said I wanted the biggest pack they had because I was going for a six month hike. I got the biggest baddest leather boots they had, because I wanted them to last. I bought lightweight jeans and t-shirts, because I was used to desert hiking where cotton was what we wore. I planned 14 day food carries because I thought I wouldn't want to hitchhike.
Guess what? It didn't matter. Yes, my boots gave me blisters. My pack was huge, heavy and uncomfortable. But I still made it to Katahdin. It isn't what's on your back that ensures a good hike, it's what's in your head. Having the perfect gear is a lot less important than having a good attitude.
If you make mistakes, you can always exchange what you bought for something that works better. The AT isn't the middle of nowhere. Or you can do what I did, and just make do.
Sounds a lot like long distance running. You can finish a race that you aren't prepared for if you can get through the pain and blisters, it's all about not quitting.
kimbur96
01-14-2016, 10:05
Thank you to everyone who has posted. I have learned a lot here and feel better about just pulling the trigger on some items knowing that this will be an evolving process. I still have a couple of big purchases to make: sleeping bag and shelter.
DuneElliot
01-14-2016, 10:29
Additionally, there are three new to me items that have been kicking butt for me this year...light heart gear so long 6, klymit insulated static V and ula circuit.
I just got the Klymit insulated static V. It had great reviews. I tried it on the concrete floor of my basement and laid down on my side...couldn't feel the floor through it. I really like it also.
squeezebox
01-14-2016, 10:51
Same thing with bicycles. When I started out with a lower quality bicycle. I improved and my bicycles did also. If I could afford it there would be a lighter faster $10K bicycle under me. Same thing with camping gear. Learning takes time. Knowledge is power.
squeezebox
01-14-2016, 10:53
If you learned something from it, it wasn't a mistake.
I'm brand new at this and at times the information seems over whelming. I don't want to buy the wrong thing and waste money but at the same time at some point I have to make a decision.
For instance looking to buy my first stove. Leaning towards the pocket rocket. Gets pretty decent reviews. Not to crazy expensive. I definitely want a fuel canister stove. Alcohol in a bottle scares me, goes back to drag racing days as a kid, but I digress. Then I read about another canister stove that had a better wind screen. So I started to doubt my decision.
Am I doing too much research and just need to pull the trigger knowing I will probably at some point replace parts?
Your wisdom and input encouraged, TIA
We've all made the same mistake ;-) It's nice to have good options :-)
Never can have too many stoves :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKAFAsPfC4s
Water Rat
01-14-2016, 12:43
Here's a new twist - Even if you come up with the "perfect" gear your first time trying, there are no guarantees it will still be perfect for you/your hiking style in the future. Gear constantly evolves. If you are just getting started, your hiking style will evolve until you find the right fit.
The only mistakes are the situations where:
- you do not learn (from your mistakes, so you keep repeating)
- you know you are doing the wrong thing, but do it anyway. Like buying something cheap as a throw away because you don't want to spend money...but you will inevitably spend the money to replace the throw away item when it fails on you.
Buying gear and then outgrowing it is not a mistake. Nor is buying gear that "might" fit your hiking style. There is only one way to know if gear will work for you and that is to buy/rent it and test it on the trail. You can research until your eyes turn blue, but there are no guarantees any gear will be the perfect fit for you until you try it. As you become more familiar with what you like/don't like, you will buy less of the stuff that absolutely does not work for you. It's all part of the process.
One Half
01-14-2016, 16:44
I think the biggest gear mistakes are really about bringing too much - stuff completely unnecessary - or too little where essentials are missed and you end up bumming stuff off others.
v1k1ng1001
01-15-2016, 00:34
We talk a lot about the big ticket items but sometimes it's all about the incidental stuff. Packing a roll of leukotape saved my hike this week. Those bio/wilderness wipes were a godsend in the desert.
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In the best of all possible world's I'd have 4 packs: Day hike, Overnight, Weekend, and Full week/10 day.
I don't. I keep 3: Day/Overnight, Weekend and Fullweek/10 day.
That's where I stumble. Far too easy to carry along another gadget cause it'll fit in the pack!
Starchild
01-15-2016, 07:58
Yes it is common to buy the wrong gear. My suggestion is start out cheap, example a decent canister stove can be had for $6-$12 and will get you going. Over time you will find out what you want and the gear you want at which time you can pull the trigger on high end gear. A alternative or combined with the above is to 'buy and try' from REI, then decide if it works for you or return it w/in the year.
I also suggest attending many group backpack events from different hiking groups and hiking clubs, this way you will get exposed to what gear is out there and if it seems like it's something that would work for you.
Agree with Blissful. Sometimes as our experience level grows our equipment needs change. Most of my mistakes have been in the sleeping bag area.
Looking back I should have gone high end WM 20 degree. However, for many years I just did not trust down because getting my bag wet was a real concern. In order to have gone to down long ago, would have had to have developed the stay dry skills long ago. Much of the keeping the bag totally dry has to do with timing.
If you learned something from it, it wasn't a mistake.
One of my goals in life has been to learn vicariously from the mistakes of others rather than learning from my own mistakes.
I just limped my way through the OML in Big Bend with this stove. Got mine for $11. I'm not sure how durable it will be over the long haul but it worked extremely well with a 500 to 750ml titanium pot of the sort we like to carry. My worry with these cheapie Chinese stoves is to what extent they will get gunked up as you use them. Then again, you can buy 4 of them for the in store price of the rocket.
The tried and true catfood can stove with windscreen was a winner for me all summer at lower altitudes. Simple reliable and cheap!
If you want to maximize efficiency over 7+ day treks then the jet boil might be an effective way to carry fewer canisters but it will cost you.
Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkI've run 3 canisters of fuel through my cheap chinese stove so far without any problems.
Five Tango
01-15-2016, 10:35
So glad to know I am not alone.Misery loves company!All the stuff I ever purchase worked,but then my tastes changed or technology improved and then I just Had To Have something else.Most changes made were weight related though.
Patrickjd9
01-15-2016, 23:24
I've been using air mattresses in tents since I started backpacking. I can always sit up in the tent while seated on the air mattress. Why? Because when I sit up my sit bones are either lightly touching the floor of the tent or just barely off the floor. Otherwise, I have too much air in the mattress.
I thought everyone knew that.
This tent, a Mountain Hardware PCT 1, is genuinely low, even with a Thermarest my head would touch the ceiling.
Since I somehow manage to both weigh a lot and have no butt or hip padding:confused:, I tend to keep more air in the mattress.
Fair enough. Everyone is different.
Good sleep on the ground is priceless. I didn't know what it was until I found the Xtherm. Good luck.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
squeezebox
01-16-2016, 16:53
I flip and flop a lot at night. I thought the Xtherm was too noisy. I turned it back in. Did I make a mistake??
Casey & Gina
02-01-2016, 16:52
I have gone through 3 kits(pretty much full setups), and if money isn't the problem then everyone can give you their opinion. I am in product development as a profession, (although not in textiles), and it is very difficult to filter through all the jargon and technical reviews. I can break it down into 3 main categories for you:
1-Price
2-Durability
3-Weight
You VERY rarely find all 3 in 1 product. There is going to be a trade off along the line. That's what makes it interesting and hard to pin point on the first go because as you develop your experience as a hiker, you learn what's important to you.
This is the essence. I've been through similar experiences but in my case I have ended up favoring durability most. I strive to take good care of my gear, but I want something that can roll with the punches when accidents or abuse end up happening. I started out with a bunch of ultralight gear and ended up swapping out most of it for heavier options that offer increased comfort or longevity, while still being conscious about weight. I have spent entirely too much money on gear but it has been over time and broken up into lots of relatively small purchases (with a couple significant exceptions).
Unfortunately, you can't really figure out what your real preferences are without getting out on the trail and relying on your gear for a while. Every time I go out I end up coming home with a list of things to change out or add. I am optimistic though because when it comes time to do a thru-hike, I will be setting out with gear that I have put to the test and proven myself happy with, and though it won't be the lightest stuff on the market, I will be okay with the weight and appreciate it when I'm in greater comfort than I would have been otherwise.
Casey & Gina
02-01-2016, 16:59
3) once you know you will be hiking for years to come, sap out your big items such as sleeping bag, pad and shelter. Notice pack is not on there.
[...]
8) when you think you have the rest of your gear sorted out then buy a quality pack.
Haha, this is great advice. The pack was the first thing I bought. I returned the first two packs I bought and have another one to sell... Fourth one worked out great! Of course the first two were great with the gear I had at the time, but not the gear I have now.
For instance looking to buy my first stove. Leaning towards the pocket rocket. Gets pretty decent reviews. Not to crazy expensive. I definitely want a fuel canister stove. Alcohol in a bottle scares me, goes back to drag racing days as a kid, but I digress. Then I read about another canister stove that had a better wind screen. So I started to doubt my decision.
Am I doing too much research and just need to pull the trigger knowing I will probably at some point replace parts?
Don't sweat the small stuff. MSR Pocket Rocket is widely used, a known entity. Windscreens can be improvised. Possibly you're thinking of the Jetboil stove, with integrated heat exchanger and windscreen -- it's also widely used, though you pay a small penalty weight-wise. I own and have used both. The Jetboil mostly stays at home.
Yes, if you stick with hiking, you'll end up buying a lot of key items over and over again. Compared to some hobbies, hiking is still dirt cheap.
Ashepabst
02-02-2016, 11:40
my first backpacking tent was a four season tent because my then GF wanted some extra warmth. doh! :datz
Ashepabst
02-02-2016, 11:41
on the Pocket Rocket... mine's still going strong after 13 years, though I don't suppose there's much to go wrong.
kimbur96
02-02-2016, 11:45
Yes, if you stick with hiking, you'll end up buying a lot of key items over and over again. Compared to some hobbies, hiking is still dirt cheap.
So true. I used to do a lot technical diving (deeper than 200' and caves) that was a crazy expensive hobby. So the fact that I have accumulated most of my gear for about $1k is awesome.
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Casey & Gina
02-02-2016, 12:49
my first backpacking tent was a four season tent because my then GF wanted some extra warmth. doh! :datz
No harm in that - now you guys can get out and do some winter packpacking! It's a blast!
Casey & Gina
02-02-2016, 12:51
So true. I used to do a lot technical diving (deeper than 200' and caves) that was a crazy expensive hobby. So the fact that I have accumulated most of my gear for about $1k is awesome.
Well I've spent well over $1k, but I have a lot to show for it. Last night I was feeling a little down about how much money I've spent over the course of the past several months being picky and buying far more than I "need". Then I realized that my laptop cost me significantly more when I bought it new than all of our nice gear combined. And I can tell you the gear brings me a lot more enjoyment than the laptop, and will probably last far longer too!
LIhikers
02-02-2016, 14:40
We all make mistakes. For example, I'm on my 3rd 3 season sleeping bag.
With each change I got closer to having one that is really good for me.
Ashepabst
02-02-2016, 14:42
No harm in that - now you guys can get out and do some winter packpacking! It's a blast!
the harm is that carried an overkill tent for like eight years based on a false premise that a tent's function is to keep you warm. it didn't ventilate as well as an appropriate tent would have, and weighed a pound or so more than what I should have purchased.
Sometimes it's good to have extra gear. For example...
About ten years ago (!!) I bought a Granite Gear Vapor Trail pack hoping it to use it on a long section hike. After trying it out on a couple of short hikes I decided it was too small and lightweight for the job. I bought a Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone which turned out to be "the one". But I kept the smaller pack.
Since then I've refined my kit and hiking style so that the Vapor Trail now works well on short (up to 3 or 4 day) sections in summer and on day hikes in the White Mountains in winter. I continue to use the larger pack on those occasions when I'm wanting to haul a bigger load, eg. on the recent MLK IV gathering in Harriman State Park.
It's a nice feeling walking through REI these days (I still do that once or twice a year) and not actually needing or even wanting any of their hiking gear.
Casey & Gina
02-02-2016, 14:56
the harm is that carried an overkill tent for like eight years based on a false premise that a tent's function is to keep you warm. it didn't ventilate as well as an appropriate tent would have, and weighed a pound or so more than what I should have purchased.
Oof, 8 years! Well, an extra pound is not so awful but poor ventilation is no fun. That said some ultralight 3-season tents have awful ventilation too. Hard to really know until you sit up in the morning and get your head covered in condensation as a result. :rolleyes:
poolskaterx
02-02-2016, 18:15
LOVE my xtherm! Maybe a little crinkly the first couple of nights but not really too bad. Never had any of my fellow hiker/campers complain.
dudeijuststarted
02-02-2016, 18:20
Just buy the value option of everything because you'll be shopping at Walasi-Yi for sure.
poolskaterx
02-02-2016, 19:01
LOVE my xtherm! Maybe a little crinkly the first couple of nights but not really too bad. Never had any of my fellow hiker/campers complain.
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
I flip and flop a lot at night. I thought the Xtherm was too noisy. I turned it back in. Did I make a mistake??
Meant to reply to this:)
I'm going thru my kit prepping for an April 70 miler. Looking at my "stuff" and up-rezzing it here and there and surprised at how many different (insert noun here) I've managed to accumulate.
I think that there's something very different between wish-booking (Internet wish-surfing?) and having the thing right here in my hand.
That's as goood an excuse as any for being a gear junkie 😀😀😀.
Yup. I've been hiking as an adult for about 10 years now. I've slowly adapted my gear based on my experiences (used to be an external frame and rag wool socks guy toting a white gas stove). I don't think anyone gets it right the first time out, plus there's always something out there a bit better. Oldest piece of gear I have now is my tent, a Wanderlust hand made by Kurt Russell. It was one of the first silnylon-use your-hiking-sticks-for-tent-poles units out there. It's not bad, but by no means bomb proof, I'll probably upgrade in a year or two.
Cosmo
This is the essence. I've been through similar experiences but in my case I have ended up favoring durability most. I strive to take good care of my gear, but I want something that can roll with the punches when accidents or abuse end up happening. I started out with a bunch of ultralight gear and ended up swapping out most of it for heavier options that offer increased comfort or longevity, while still being conscious about weight. I have spent entirely too much money on gear but it has been over time and broken up into lots of relatively small purchases (with a couple significant exceptions).
Unfortunately, you can't really figure out what your real preferences are without getting out on the trail and relying on your gear for a while. Every time I go out I end up coming home with a list of things to change out or add. I am optimistic though because when it comes time to do a thru-hike, I will be setting out with gear that I have put to the test and proven myself happy with, and though it won't be the lightest stuff on the market, I will be okay with the weight and appreciate it when I'm in greater comfort than I would have been otherwise.
I'm brand new at this and at times the information seems over whelming. I don't want to buy the wrong thing and waste money but at the same time at some point I have to make a decision.
For instance looking to buy my first stove. Leaning towards the pocket rocket. Gets pretty decent reviews. Not to crazy expensive. I definitely want a fuel canister stove. Alcohol in a bottle scares me, goes back to drag racing days as a kid, but I digress. Then I read about another canister stove that had a better wind screen. So I started to doubt my decision.
Am I doing too much research and just need to pull the trigger knowing I will probably at some point replace parts?
Your wisdom and input encouraged, TIA
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Interesting thread. Get the pocketrocket, it's fine. As you move forward maybe your needs will change.
Happy Trails.