View Full Version : Calendar Year Triple Crown - Speedstick
*Please note which sub-forum this is in and please don't turn this into rant on speed or miles.
Speedstick started her Triple Crown Attempt Monday Jan 11th NOBO on the AT. Will be interesting to see how this compares with Flyin Brian's journey.
http://marriedtothetrail.com/2016/01/13/smooth-start/
Lone Wolf
01-13-2016, 09:14
hmmmm. lookin' for $$$ and food
hmmmm. lookin' for $$$ and food
Aren't we all?
Triple Crown in one year sounds like a reasonable way to get publicity to sell books about hiking the Triple Crown... It does get a little circular though. Good Luck!
She hasn't seen cold yet.
29 pound pack with 4 days of food? I got that. Maybe less. No need for me to buy anything new.
Her gear list is interesting. No Cubens were harmed in the making of my gear. I do own one piece of Patagonia gear.
All the best to her.
Wayne
Lone Wolf
01-13-2016, 09:37
Aren't we all?
no. most of us fund our own vacations
Traveler
01-13-2016, 09:49
A triple crown dash is ambitious, but I wonder how winter conditions in the AT will impact this, especially north of MA.
Slo-go'en
01-13-2016, 12:10
A triple crown dash is ambitious, but I wonder how winter conditions in the AT will impact this, especially north of MA.
We *finally* got some snow here in the Whites last night/today and that's sitting on a pretty good layer of ice. While we haven't gotten much snow in NH, it's been snowing in central Maine pretty good. Even though winter was slow to start this year, it's still quite possible we will have a good snow pack by the end of March which will last into April, which makes the trials in Maine pretty much unpassable until into May.
Of course, she can't climb Katahdin until they open the park, which is no earlier then May 15th. The only way to climb Katahdin before then would be in winter conditions with a winter climbers permit. No one is let in during mud season, which is late April until they decide to open the trails. So, if she can't finish the AT until almost June, that doesn't leave much time to do the other 6,000 miles.
The only way she can pull this off is by bouncing back and forth between the different trails. I don't see how it can be done any other way, given a Jan AT start.
BobTheBuilder
01-13-2016, 12:25
Back in 2005 Squeaky did all three trails in a calendar year. He started surprisingly late, like maybe April (?) and did the AT SOBO last. I passed him on his last day, I think it was December 29th, as he was approaching Springer. He struck me as a very nice guy, and obviously an incredible hiker.
no. most of us fund our own vacations
I agree, but this doesn't look like a vacation. I think she is treating it like a job. I could be wrong though.
rocketsocks
01-13-2016, 12:42
I agree, but this doesn't look like a vacation. I think she is treating it like a job. I could be wrong though....a dream job.
A triple crown dash is ambitious, but I wonder how winter conditions in the AT will impact this, especially north of MA.
There is at least one other hiker that, as of now, is attempting a Calendar year TC this year. he will be doing PCT, CDT and AT&T like Squeaky and Swami did. depending on the snow levels in the PNW this may or not be the year to do an AT first sequence. If the PNW gets a lot of snow or the snow stays late you risk having snow from the Sierra north. Swami ran into some of this north of Castle Crags on his trek.
4eyedbuzzard
01-13-2016, 17:23
I agree, but this doesn't look like a vacation. I think she is treating it like a job. I could be wrong though.Maybe not exactly a vacation. But definitely not a job either. One half of the equation is missing - an employer (that pays people to hike.) More likely is that she views it as a promotional achievement to capitalize on later through books, endorsements, speaking, etc. - especially given that she has already written a book and has a webpage, etc. Nothing wrong with all that. There are a few who manage to make a living at it. Maybe she'll be the next one. Not having everything funded isn't exactly professional though.
Isn't this a bad year to try this? The snowpack is already well above average in CA. Unless that changes, it's going to be really difficult to do the PCT NOBO on an early schedule and make big miles. IIRC, Bryan had to do the NM CDT before he could start the PCT for the same reason. This year, though, even NM has above average so snow far.
Obviously she's a few months away from heading west, but she'd better hope that the rest of the winter is warm and dry in CA.
Transportation back and forth across the country will be a major part of the cost for an endeavor like this.
I assume a person would knock out the no to low sections of the PCT & CDT while waiting for the rest of all 3 trails to free up.
Pick your spots and go where the snow isn't.
Wayne
We *finally* got some snow here in the Whites last night/today and that's sitting on a pretty good layer of ice. While we haven't gotten much snow in NH, it's been snowing in central Maine pretty good. Even though winter was slow to start this year, it's still quite possible we will have a good snow pack by the end of March which will last into April, which makes the trials in Maine pretty much unpassable until into May.
Of course, she can't climb Katahdin until they open the park, which is no earlier then May 15th. The only way to climb Katahdin before then would be in winter conditions with a winter climbers permit. No one is let in during mud season, which is late April until they decide to open the trails. So, if she can't finish the AT until almost June, that doesn't leave much time to do the other 6,000 miles.
The only way she can pull this off is by bouncing back and forth between the different trails. I don't see how it can be done any other way, given a Jan AT start.
I believe her plan is to be done in April.
Slo-go'en
01-13-2016, 18:33
I believe her plan is to be done in April.
Good luck with that. I guess she hasn't been in the woods of Maine in April before. Even if it doesn't snow that much this winter, that is still a very, very bad idea.
colorado_rob
01-13-2016, 19:15
Perhaps a dumb question: Can one flip flop among the three trails during the calendar year and still get "credit" for the one-calendar-year triple? I would think so, but I imagine lots of folks would say no....
If this is kosher, or even if not and she doesn't care about arbitrary rules, perhaps she'll get as far north as possible on the AT, then head to the CA desert PCT for a while, then back to finish AT, then back to PCT (or southern CDT, or whatever).
Perhaps a dumb question: Can one flip flop among the three trails during the calendar year and still get "credit" for the one-calendar-year triple? I would think so, but I imagine lots of folks would say no....
Brian Robinson did a non-continuous 3C. Much in the way you described: He hiked up to VT, flipped to New Mexico on the CDT and made it to Cumbres Pass, did the PCT, flipped around back to the CDT to finish and completed the AT on Katahdin. Three others (Matthew Hazley, Justin Lichter, Cam Honan) did it in linear fashion with the exception of connecting to the different trailheads. Justin Lichter also did the entire the Eastern Continental Trail (Key West, FT, Pinhoti, part of the BMT, AT, IAT) that same year.
Having said all that, Brian, being the first gets credit. Based on what the other three did since then however, I suspect Mary Monihan (sp?) would want to follow the same criteria as the latter three hikers.
Much how traditional thru-hike record attempts have no hitching into town because of the standard set by Scott Williamson on the PCT.
Brian Robinson did a non-continuous 3C. Much in the way you described: He hiked up to VT, flipped to New Mexico on the CDT and made it to Cumbres Pass, did the PCT, flipped around back to the CDT to finish and completed the AT on Katahdin. Three others (Matthew Hazley, Justin Lichter, Cam Honan) did it in linear fashion with the exception of connecting to the different trailheads. Justin Lichter also did the entire the Eastern Continental Trail (Key West, FT, Pinhoti, part of the BMT, AT, IAT) that same year.
Having said all that, Brian, being the first gets credit. Based on what the other three did since then however, I suspect Mary Monihan (sp?) would want to follow the same criteria as the latter three hikers.
Much how traditional thru-hike record attempts have no hitching into town because of the standard set by Scott Williamson on the PCT.
i would think she would get "credit" for a calendar year triple crown regardless of flips or the she did it as long as it was in a calender year. (I don't believe Trauma actually did a calendar year, though he did the three trails in 12 months.). Muxh as flip floppers are still given credit for a thru hike, as they should.
Lone Wolf
01-13-2016, 20:27
Muxh as flip floppers are still given credit for a thru hike, as they should.
nah. it's just a complete AT hike
i would think she would get "credit" for a calendar year triple crown regardless of flips or the she did it as long as it was in a calender year. (I don't believe Trauma actually did a calendar year, though he did the three trails in 12 months.). Muxh as flip floppers are still given credit for a thru hike, as they should.
Fair enough with the "calendar year" vs 12 month difference..But it does show how the whole FKT/record thing can get rather, ah, peculiar.
I really can't comment on the whole "should they be given credit or not" thing. I have no dog in that fight...
I just noticed once a baseline is established, most other record holders/attempts seem to follow it. Again, see the Scott Williamson example
There is no governing body of course (Thank God!) just baselines people adhere to for these records.
As Rob alluded to, a flip-flop hike may have an asterisk next to it for the very few people who care about this stuff. *
In the end, to paraphrase a quote (wrongly?) attributed to Abe Lincoln " To those who care about that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they will care about".
* I am not one of them... :)
My gf wondered if anyone did a through hike in Winter. I would imagine that most hikers, at least in the NE, would seriously need to worry about avalanches. Some of the AT in Carrabasset Valley is all avalanche prone area.
Sarcasm the elf
01-13-2016, 22:23
My gf wondered if anyone did a through hike in Winter. I would imagine that most hikers, at least in the NE, would seriously need to worry about avalanches. Some of the AT in Carrabasset Valley is all avalanche prone area.
A gentleman named The Real Hiking Viking is doing a Winter Sobo at the moment. I've been loosely following him on Facebook as he's posting some great photos of the trip.
His blog is below:
http://therealhikingviking.com/blog/
Fair enough with the "calendar year" vs 12 month difference..But it does show how the whole FKT/record thing can get rather, ah, peculiar.
I really can't comment on the whole "should they be given credit or not" thing. I have no dog in that fight...
I just noticed once a baseline is established, most other record holders/attempts seem to follow it. Again, see the Scott Williamson example
There is no governing body of course (Thank God!) just baselines people adhere to for these records.
As Rob alluded to, a flip-flop hike may have an asterisk next to it for the very few people who care about this stuff. *
In the end, to paraphrase a quote (wrongly?) attributed to Abe Lincoln " To those who care about that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they will care about".
* I am not one of them... :)
I see this a bit different in that it's not a record attempt. If she was looking to break Swami's time "record" then agree with you, she would like follow the rules of the previous record holder.
In other news...... it could be that the Hiking Viking did a better plan. It is possible that he could be done with the AT early enough to do the other two trails. Wonder if he's thought of that. :)
My gf wondered if anyone did a through hike in Winter. I would imagine that most hikers, at least in the NE, would seriously need to worry about avalanches. Some of the AT in Carrabasset Valley is all avalanche prone area.
when Brian did the TC starting in Jan he had to knock off in vermont as the trail basically does not exist in places (above the snow)
besides baxter access being limited the 90 some days of winter would be too short of a window
She's been a consistent little beaver developing as a hiking since I last saw her on the AT in 2006. Wish her well. Logistics are daunting to my mind doing a CY TC.
Tis the season to quote a friend of mine...
http://freeoutside.com/planning-for-the-big-one/
March and early April through New England could be...interesting.
March and early April through New England could be...interesting.
LOL, ain't dat right.
Must have been fun doing the North Country Tr in snowshoes and on skis for Skurka in winter. he's a mutant Coloradan though.
Slo-go'en
01-16-2016, 14:56
March and early April through New England could be...interesting.
LOL, ain't dat right.
If not down right impossible, it will be very, very slow. We're only on our second snow storm here in the Whites and it was a glancing blow, but it's been piling up in the mountains of central Maine which has been getting all the heavy snow fall. Even on a low snow year, the snowmobilers are still out riding in Maine well into April and that is prime skiing time for Tucks on Mt Washington.
Mary was at the SoRuck on Sat (NOC) and is through the Great Smokies. She seemed happy and determined, and barring any injuries should prevail one way or another.
To say alternate hikes and flip-flops aren't thru-hikes is old school purism. In order to help assure a better experience the ATC (as well as many others) is suggesting them. They're certainly better than hiking/camping with 100 others.
To be fair, I don't think anyone on this thread thinks that way. But, let's face it, there is always a vocal minority who is very loud. I guess my main point was, most people now try to do a traditional style hike when setting a record or a first and the people who care about this sort of thing will pipe up.
No idea if journey will happen as a flip or not.
Doesn't really matter in the end. Pretty cool no matter how it is done.
SpoonsMcgoo
01-26-2016, 16:14
Squeaky's hike was an impressive hike. He did it in a big snow pack year in the Sierras and was left with a brutal fall on the AT in New England. I wish her luck. I think she is doing the miles backwards but she is a Triple Crowner already so who am I to judge. I like the real long distance hike as compared to the speed hikes. Squeaky, Flyin Brian, Trauma, and Skurka had real adventures.
The Cleaner
01-28-2016, 20:03
I met her on Monday evening at Hurricane Gap.That's where the deep snow started with drifts up to 3'.If that doesn't slow her down maybe a few miles of broken off rhododendron blocking the trail.I had to crawl on my knees a few times.I wanted to hike over to Hot Springs for a beer.The 3.5 miles from Allen Gap to Spring Mtn shelter took me 5 hours.It's usually a 2 hour hike.:eek:3343833439334403344133442
From her most recent blog post (Feb. 6), she was 24 days in and had covered 469 miles. That is a pace of 19.54 miles a day, which if maintained would, by my calculation, have her finishing on May 4. I know there are a lot a variables, faster days in March, the Whites in April, access to Baxter in early spring. It will be interesting to see how she handles it.
The Cleaner
02-07-2016, 14:40
From her most recent blog post (Feb. 6), she was 24 days in and had covered 469 miles. That is a pace of 19.54 miles a day, which if maintained would, by my calculation, have her finishing on May 4. I know there are a lot a variables, faster days in March, the Whites in April, access to Baxter in early spring. It will be interesting to see how she handles it. When I met her I asked her about this and she said she could leave the AT if conditions force her off the trail.She said she'd then probably head for the southern end of the PCT.
Slo-go'en
02-07-2016, 16:54
I was skeptical that anyone could get through NH and Maine in March/April but with the lack of snow this year it just might be doable. It's possible we could get some big storms then, but it's not looking too likely. Getting permission to climb Kathadin at the end of April or early May, that might be a problem as that could be in the middle of mud season.
all triple crowns end on top of katahdin
My gf wondered if anyone did a through hike in Winter. I would imagine that most hikers, at least in the NE, would seriously need to worry about avalanches. Some of the AT in Carrabasset Valley is all avalanche prone area.
It is certainly possible as the PCT has seen a SOBO winter thru hike. Of course it was done by two of the best. Note they both suffered frost bite and some pretty tough conditions. It is standard on the PCT and CDT in the spring to use crampons, ice axes and snowshoes so their adding in ski's seems legit.
"Justin “Trauma” Lichter and Shawn “Pepper” Forry completed a winter thru-hike of the Pacific Crest Trail today. They generously sent us this video. They started their hike on October 21, 2014 and finished March 1, 2015 for a total of 132 days."
http://www.pcta.org/2015/winter-thru-hike-pacific-crest-trail-video-27730/
all triple crowns end on top of katahdin
of the "in calendar year" category this has not happened, nor would it be a practical plan
colorado_rob
04-25-2016, 11:27
all triple crowns end on top of katahdin????? Never, ever heard of that one, in fact, has it ever even been done? A calendar year TC ending on Katahdin?
????? Never, ever heard of that one, in fact, has it ever even been done? A calendar year TC ending on Katahdin?
Flyin Brian.
*Please note which sub-forum this is in and please don't turn this into rant on speed or miles.
Speedstick started her Triple Crown Attempt Monday Jan 11th NOBO on the AT. Will be interesting to see how this compares with Flyin Brian's journey.
http://marriedtothetrail.com/2016/01/13/smooth-start/
Going back to the OP.
I looked up the link and she was at mile 1889 (Rattle River Shelter, NH) on the 24th of Apr. So about an 18 mpd pace and a finish of the AT about 10 May (assuming the same pace).
I would assume (if she is still intending to keep going) that she would hit the PCT then about 12 May and head north. This is adequate timing for hitting the high Sierra as early as reasonably possible. Once again assuming she will ramp the mpd up into some pretty high numbers. Which is required if this attempt is to succeed. Which I hope it does.
For reference Flying Brian started Jan 1 and made it to Mount Greylock by 25 March and then went to NM to start the CDT. He went from Cumbres Pass to the Mexican border between March 30 and Apr 20. He started the PCT on Apr 29.
So, roughly speaking, Brian had a total of about 770 miles of the CDT and 1575 miles of the AT in by Apr 24th. Or about 450 miles more than Speedstick by the same date. But the different start dates means Brian had 10 more days of hiking in by Apr 24th also.
Brian started the PCT on Apr 28 and finished on July 21. 84 days.
and started the CDT on July 24th and finished the CDT on Sept 27th. 88 days.
and finished the AT on Oct 27th.
meanwhile "Legend" is rapidly wrapping up the AT. Crossed into the 100 mile wilderness yesterday or today. He is cruising and will finish in about 84 days.
http://freeoutside.com/day-79-moose-munch-and-the-river/
rocketsocks
04-27-2016, 17:58
Cool blog and a nice moose picture, thanks for the link.
On on another note I give this young girl props for running a 1/2 marathon by mistake. Can't help but think what barriers she just set herself up for to overcome the rest of here life...I wonder what if at all any of these FKT hikers had a similar experience when young that told 'em "I think I can, I think I can" good stuff when we push ourselves.
rocketsocks
04-27-2016, 17:58
Cool blog and a nice moose picture, thanks for the link.
On on another note I give this young girl props for running a 1/2 marathon by mistake. Can't help but think what barriers she just set herself up for to overcome the rest of here life...I wonder what if at all any of these FKT hikers had a similar experience when young that told 'em "I think I can, I think I can" good stuff when we push ourselves.http://www.cbsnews.com/news/12-year-old-girl-runs-ny-half-marathon-by-mistake/
Cool blog and a nice moose picture, thanks for the link.
On on another note I give this young girl props for running a 1/2 marathon by mistake. Can't help but think what barriers she just set herself up for to overcome the rest of here life...I wonder what if at all any of these FKT hikers had a similar experience when young that told 'em "I think I can, I think I can" good stuff when we push ourselves.
legend certainly had a bit of challenging LD hiking. He was a fellow 2011 PCT hiker so he several (hundred) miles of snow. I suspect that experienced has served him well so far on this trek.
cool story on the girl.
meanwhile "Legend" is rapidly wrapping up the AT. Crossed into the 100 mile wilderness yesterday or today. He is cruising and will finish in about 84 days.
http://freeoutside.com/day-79-moose-munch-and-the-river/
Nice! I did not know about him. Let's look at his stats so far too.
Assuming he finishes as you project then he has averaged approximately 25.5 mpd. Not bad for winter conditions (this being a deliberate understatement I think).
Based off his blog though he is over about 2 1/2 weeks behind his desired schedule as he planned on starting the PCT mid-April.
But assuming he starts the PCT circa May 3 he is fine for finishing it. The faster he goes the better of course. But if he goes the speed he planned on he would finish circa 7 Aug due to being a couple weeks behind schedule - his blog gets the result that he planned on 30mpd on the PCT). If he can recover the time on the PCT (seems quite possible looking at his times so far) and get back on schedule (i.e. 35 mpd average) then he originally planned on starting the CDT late July. On the positive side, if he had actually kept his schedule he would really have hit bad snow and maybe lost the time anyway.
At his planned pace for the CDT (assuming he does get started late July) he will be exiting the San Juan's circa 9 Oct. Somewhat pushing it. If he is running 2 weeks late then he is really pushing it. (these numbers are figured off the 'official' CDT trail mileage - which no one to date has followed while doing a calendar year TC hike to my knowledge). He needs to speed up on this section a bit too if he can.
An interesting note here is route choice. Speedstick intends to do the CDT 2nd vice the PCT and Legend is the other way around. It is likely that the PCT choice is the better one. While BOTH trails have lots of snow this year, and still will, when these two hit the mountains, it is more likely that the PCT will yield higher daily mileage than the CDT will. Currently the PCT trail itself (from Kennedy Meadows to Tuoloumne) is above average to average snow pack and the weather is nasty and snowing as we speak. This does not make for the recently common early entry into the Sierras we have seen the last few years. Getting in early might be a bit tough, but the amount of snow travel is much less than what is likely on the CDT.
However when it comes to snow this year the CDT is even worse. As of today the snowpack at the Wolf Creek ski resort in the middle of the San Juan's is roughly 12 feet and they are at 439 inches for the year. This is above normal and it is snowing there now and, being only 30 Apr, it is going to get a lot more snow this year still. Getting into the San Juan's early will require extensive snow travel and thus slow going.
It would be fun to read about their travels (travails?) during the season but I leave for the PCT myself in a few days so I will have to read about most of it after I crawl back home. Best of luck to both of them and I might even run across one of them.