Wind River Range Questions

[Studlintsean]

I am hoping to get some feedback from folks who have been in the Wind River Range:

1. Food Protection
- Based on my research, most people seem to suspend their food bags from rocks when above treeline (even though this does not appear to be a legal method per the Bridger- Teton Wilderness Order (http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5351660.pdf)). I am leaning toward a BearVBault since I can pick one up at my local REI and they are relatively cheap. Has anyone fit 5 days of food in a BV450 or should I just spring for the BV500? I know everyone's food intake is different but I am looking for general terms.

2. Weather
- We are planning 5 nights in mid August next year. I have seen a report of all kinds of weather in August. I am assuming a 20 degree bag with a Ridgerest will be sufficient (I also have a 40 deg quilt)? I will also have a down jacket, beannie, and fleece gloves.

3. Campsites
-We have plenty of time to plan our route but our current plan is to hike out of Elkhart Park and Camp at the following locations:
Pole Creek Lake, Lower Jean Lake, Eastern Side of Peak Lake, somewhere in the Lower Titcomb basin area, and Barbara Lake). Can anyone very familiar with the area comment on whether any of these spots wouldn't be a good place to camp? This is basically a mostly on trail loop from Elkhart Park with a trip to Titcomb Basin and a hike up and over Knapsack Col.

4. Bugs
- We are planning Aug 15-20. What can we expect with the bugs? I am planning on using a Duomid with a bivy. Again, I know this can very but looking for general terms.

4. Other advice
- Any other advice. This will be my first real trip out west (I did a short 2 night trip in the Uinta mountains last summer).'

Thanks in advance.

[colorado_rob]

5 days in the BV 450 will be tight, but if you package very carefully, you might make it. Remember, your 1st day's worth of food you'll be eating on the trail and that evening at dinner, so that food doesn't have to be in the canister. Personally, the limited hiking I've done in the winds (3 multi-day trips), we've just hung our food in the trees, or buried in a bunch of rocks above treeline, contained in OP sacks (odor proof sack, you can get them online). there are supposedly no grizzly bears in this area, at least none have been spotted in recent years. Just those pesky, timid black bears. Double check this.

Bugs tend to go away early august, you should be fine. Take some bug repellant just in case, but you can leave the head nets at home. In July, we carry head nets.

One WR trip we climbed Gannet peak, including a stay at some fantastic places; island lake, lower and upper titcomb basins, spectacular! We went in from the pinedale trailhead for this climb. Tons of trails in that area, all gorgeous terrain. So I'm not much help on those others you mentioned.

Yes, all kids of weather in August, very similar in a way to early September in Colorado. A 20 degree is exactly what I'd take. I prefer an inflatable pad, but just my preference. UL down jacket, beanie, I'd be taking some glove liners, not full fleece, it won't get that cold.

Other advice? GREAT choice for a trip out to these parts. Colorado is getting more and more crowded, we plan on spending more time in Wyoming. We did a medicine bow loop last summer, might have been the highlight of our summer. Ours was only 35 miles or so though (2 wasy days, 2 nights), but there is a full 100 mile version in the area.

[Studlintsean]

5 days in the BV 450 will be tight, but if you package very carefully, you might make it. Remember, your 1st day's worth of food you'll be eating on the trail and that evening at dinner, so that food doesn't have to be in the canister. Personally, the limited hiking I've done in the winds (3 multi-day trips), we've just hung our food in the trees, or buried in a bunch of rocks above treeline, contained in OP sacks (odor proof sack, you can get them online). there are supposedly no grizzly bears in this area, at least none have been spotted in recent years. Just those pesky, timid black bears. Double check this.

Bugs tend to go away early august, you should be fine. Take some bug repellant just in case, but you can leave the head nets at home. In July, we carry head nets.

One WR trip we climbed Gannet peak, including a stay at some fantastic places; island lake, lower and upper titcomb basins, spectacular! We went in from the pinedale trailhead for this climb. Tons of trails in that area, all gorgeous terrain. So I'm not much help on those others you mentioned.

Yes, all kids of weather in August, very similar in a way to early September in Colorado. A 20 degree is exactly what I'd take. I prefer an inflatable pad, but just my preference. UL down jacket, beanie, I'd be taking some glove liners, not full fleece, it won't get that cold.

Other advice? GREAT choice for a trip out to these parts. Colorado is getting more and more crowded, we plan on spending more time in Wyoming. We did a medicine bow loop last summer, might have been the highlight of our summer. Ours was only 35 miles or so though (2 wasy days, 2 nights), but there is a full 100 mile version in the area.

Rob,

Thanks for the great feedback. I have never carried a canister but my thoughts are it might be easier to just bite the bullet and carry one rather than trying to find places to hang/ bury my food. It will also double as a seat (assuming I get a BV500). I have a NeoAir All season that I might carry instead of the foam pad but I am worried if it popped it would cut the trip short.

Having spent a ton of time out in this area, would you recommend a UL jacket (MB Ex light) or a warmer puffy (MB Alpine light). I will also probably take a t-shirt, REI Traveler Shirt, Cap 4, and rain jacket but I haven't thought much about clothing. The gloves a fleece liners form some old snowboarding Burton gloves I have. You think that will be overkill?

Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it.

[colorado_rob]

Rob,

Thanks for the great feedback. I have never carried a canister but my thoughts are it might be easier to just bite the bullet and carry one rather than trying to find places to hang/ bury my food. It will also double as a seat (assuming I get a BV500). I have a NeoAir All season that I might carry instead of the foam pad but I am worried if it popped it would cut the trip short.

Having spent a ton of time out in this area, would you recommend a UL jacket (MB Ex light) or a warmer puffy (MB Alpine light). I will also probably take a t-shirt, REI Traveler Shirt, Cap 4, and rain jacket but I haven't thought much about clothing. The gloves a fleece liners form some old snowboarding Burton gloves I have. You think that will be overkill?

Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it.I hear ya, Bear canisters, though heavy, are pretty darn convenient. And I also like the seat. I'm about ready to click the mouse on one of those sweet Berikade "UL" ones... over $200 though....

FWIW, I carry a 1/8" UL closed cell foam for under my neoair, 2.2 extra ounces, but it protects the neoair.

Anyway, I'd go with the UL down sweater, not the puffier one, as long as you have a good shell jacket, and a couple other thin top layers, which it sounds like you do. For that area & time of year, I go with 4 total upper layers: 1/4 zip long sleeve base layer top, 100-weight microfleece 2nd layer (also 1/4 zip), UL down sweater (mine is Mont Bell, like the Ex Lt, 7 ounces), and outer shell/rain jacket.

For bottoms, I personally would go with some UL long johns, I use the REI silks (4 ounces), zip-off quick dry pants and my Dri Duck rain suit pants (5 ounces), mostly for warmth, though I have used them in heavier rains too. so 3 layer bottoms, mostly for evening around camp and cold mornings, probably be in shorts the rest of the day.

I do think fleece gloves are overkill, glove liners are dirt cheap at REI, you might want them at night and in the mornings, I'm still fully dexterous in these as opposed to thicker fleece.

[Sarcasm the elf]

The Trail Show podcast did a decent segment about hiking in the Wind River Range, I believe it was in episode 39. If you haven't heard it yet, you might find it helpful or at least interesting.

[Studlintsean]

Thanks. All great info that I will certainly weigh heavily. I was leaning toward the UL jacket so you pretty much sealed that (unless something crazy happens with weather right before trip). I appreciate your advice on the detailed clothing you would use. This is what I really need to figure out but have plenty of time to do so. I tend to run really hot so my thoughts were the button up would provide some sun/bug protection and a little bit of warmth but better ventilation than a long sleeve quarter zip to hike in. If needed, I could always add my Marmot Precip. Then in camp I would have a dry Cap 4 and down jacket.

Thanks again. It's a long way off but I am already pumped and planning.

[Studlintsean]

The Trail Show podcast did a decent segment about hiking in the Wind River Range, I believe it was in episode 39. If you haven't heard it yet, you might find it helpful or at least interesting.

Thanks I will check it out now. Pretty much checked out of work this Friday afternoon...

[colorado_rob]

.... It's a long way off but I am already pumped and planning.Me too... I'm thinking about actually heading out your way in April
to repeat an AT section that I had lousy weather on, if you have an opinion, see other thread....

[Venchka]

If you have not found the Backcountry Post forum yet I suggest you go and sign up. Go to the Trip Report forum. Search that forum for Wind River. Have fun reading numerous trip reports. You could narrow your searches with Titcomb Basin, each of your proposed camp locations, etc.

http://backcountrypost.com/

Cal Topo can be used to prepare your own personal maps.
Have a great hike and give us a trip report please.
The Wind River Range is on my radar for 2017.

Wayne

[Studlintsean]

If you have not found the Backcountry Post forum yet I suggest you go and sign up. Go to the Trip Report forum. Search that forum for Wind River. Have fun reading numerous trip reports. You could narrow your searches with Titcomb Basin, each of your proposed camp locations, etc.

http://backcountrypost.com/

Cal Topo can be used to prepare your own personal maps.
Have a great hike and give us a trip report please.
The Wind River Range is on my radar for 2017.

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. I think I have read (at least browsed) every trip report on the internet at this point. I used Cal Topo to come up with the route. Great site.

I will most certainly provide a trip report after the trip. Working on talking the wife into purchasing a high dollar light weight camera now. That will be my next thread if I succeed.

[Spirit Walker]

The Winds are really beautiful, but that area is also really really popular. Expect crowds. Popular camping areas may be packed with tents. Trailheads will be crammed with cars. You may run into herds of sheep and pack trains. Don't expect much solitude.

[lonehiker]

My experience in the Winds has been that once you get away from those popular trailheads you can expect a great degree of solitude. It is a large area and it gobbles up the crowds pretty quickly. This may have changed, but, the last time I was up in the Green River Lakes area it was posted that grizzly bears had moved into the area. Call to verify this if it concerns you.

[QiWiz]

Food - We used unlined Ursaks, 2 per person for a 9-day trip; no problems with critters. Above tree line we just tied them around large boulders.
Trails- We hiked the so-called Wind River Crest trail; was a great trip with lots of great scenery.
Bugs - We hiked in early September and did not have any significant bug issues.

[Studlintsean]

Thanks for all the information

[Venchka]

QiWiz,
Early September, probably go in on Labor Day as all the locals and school kids are coming out, is my plan.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the Winds up close and personal. After driving past them several times, it is time to stop and go in.

Wayne

[Studlintsean]

Additional question regarding elevation:

We are coming from Northern Virginia so we will not be acclimated. My little brother has climbed a few 14000' peaks in Colorado when he worked out there one summer (so he was quite acclimated) but besides that we have pretty limited experience at elevation. Last summer I spent a day at 9500' and then hiked to ~10000' where I camped at a lake in Utah. I did not have any serious issues just a bit short of breath on the inclines.

For this trip, we plan to fly into SLC, drive to Pinedale (7,175') arriving later afternoon and getting a motel room, stay a night at the Elkhart Park Campsite (9,300') and camp night #1 at a lake at about 9,750'. Does this sound adequate to hike over a 12000' peak on day 3? I know this depends on the person as well (seems everything does). Thanks.

[mississippi_dan]

Three trips in mid-September in the Wind Rivers for me. Lowest temperture was about 15 degrees at some campground in Pinedale the night before our trip. In the mountains, we never had water freeze on that same trip. I'm not sure if it is the lower humidity or hiking in the higher elevation, but I get by with a lighter bag than in the east. I go with a 30 degree bag with the addition of long underwear on really cold nights. I have a 15 degree bag, but leave it home unless the forecast is for really cold weather.

Did Elkhart Park to Titcomb Basin a few years ago. I don't recall exactly where we camped, but will have to check with the others.

Pinedale has a awesome Aquatic and Fitness Center (http://www.pinedaleaquatic.com/#!hours-fees/c1kr9). Hot showers after a few days in the mountains can't be beat.
Dan

[redseal]

Following this post. The Wind River Range is on my list of places to go!

[Venchka]

Following this post. The Wind River Range is on my list of places to go!

Good luck. Prepare well. The best parts are above the trees. Not at all like the AT.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Venchka]

Thanks Dan! The PAC sounds great! $3.00 for all day & showers.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Studlintsean]

Three trips in mid-September in the Wind Rivers for me. Lowest temperture was about 15 degrees at some campground in Pinedale the night before our trip. In the mountains, we never had water freeze on that same trip. I'm not sure if it is the lower humidity or hiking in the higher elevation, but I get by with a lighter bag than in the east. I go with a 30 degree bag with the addition of long underwear on really cold nights. I have a 15 degree bag, but leave it home unless the forecast is for really cold weather.

Did Elkhart Park to Titcomb Basin a few years ago. I don't recall exactly where we camped, but will have to check with the others.

Pinedale has a awesome Aquatic and Fitness Center (http://www.pinedaleaquatic.com/#!hours-fees/c1kr9). Hot showers after a few days in the mountains can't be beat.
Dan


Thanks for the information Dan.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Did 3 trips to wind river range with total of 31 days on the trail. First trip Big Sandy To Elkhart pass, second trip Green River Lakes to Elkhart, third trip Big Sandy to Pyramid lake and back.

20 degree bag is a good choice,
Bring bug spray anyway
I never hung my food, never saw a Single bear but I did eat far away from campsite

[T.S.Kobzol]

Pretty much every spot is great for camping.

Great fly fishing everywhere

Do not underestimate altitude sickness and how it affects your planned mileage

[Studlintsean]

Pretty much every spot is great for camping.

Great fly fishing everywhere

Do not underestimate altitude sickness and how it affects your planned mileage

Thanks T.S Kobzol. Altitude is my greatest concern. We are planning short days (45 miles over 6 days) with some buffers to adjust accordingly.

[DuneElliot]

I live just across the valley and over the Bighorns from the Winds but the mountains are very similar in weather conditions and animals.

In August, you will experience almost no bugs. I still take bug spray on my camping trips because I have the space, but it is probably unnecessary while backpacking.

I wouldn't worry too much about bears. They are pretty spooked by people around here because of the remoteness and lack of interaction. We never hang our food and are actually really bad about coolers and totes and we've never had a problem when horse camping. Hang if you can, but if you can't it's generally not a big deal.

Even in August, Wyoming can see sub-freezing temperatures, high winds and snow especially in the high-country, and it's not uncommon. Sleeping bags should be a minimum rating of 20* but would recommend lower. My base camp bag is 0* and my backpacking/horse packing bag is 10*. We camped in mid-August at 8000ft and water froze every night. For this reason I also recommend a good base layer and warm coat. I am cold-blooded so my requirements for a down jacket will be higher than some, but nights are never warm.

Hope this helps.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Excellent advice +1

[Studlintsean]

Thanks a lot DuneElliot. Noted on the bug spray. Also on the temps. I only have a 40 degree and 20 degree bag but the 20 degree has kept me warm well into the teens and is a quality bag (Western Mountaineering). I was thinking about carrying a Thermarest Zlite Sol (I think that's the name) but based on your feedback, I'm now leaning more toward my Neoair Allseason.

As for the Bears, I am not really worried about them (I backpacking quite a bit in SNP where they are abundant) but I am worried about a hefty fine that could potentially end my trip if I don't have the ability to meet the minimum requirements. I'm still leaning toward trying to get all my food in a BV450 and suck up the 2 lbs.

[DuneElliot]

As far as I know, unless you are in Grand Teton or Yellowstone NP there are no specific requirements regarding bear canisters of any kind. I can double check with a friend of mine who lives over there just to be sure.

[T.S.Kobzol]

There were no requirements in the Winds when I hiked there

[Venchka]

There were no requirements in the Winds when I hiked there

I hope it stays that way.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Studlintsean]

According to this, food storage appears to be required (correct me if I'm wrong).

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5351660.pdf

[lonehiker]

I think when it was mentioned that there was "no requirement", they meant bear canisters were not required, which they are not. They can be used as a method of acceptable storage but simply hanging your food also fulfills that requirement.

[DuneElliot]

Checking on the websites of Yellowstone and Teton NPs where bear activity is high even they don't require canisters...just that food is hung and away from camp.

[Mags]

Looks like ursacks are allowed (recognized by the IGBC) in the Winds. This is good.

A reasonably light solution that does not require hanging (but does need to be tied off per the Ursack folks) and is not bulky like a canister.

Glad more agencies are allowing Ursack in place of bear canisters. Still a few hold outs however...

[Studlintsean]

I agree with all of the above and thanks for also looking into it. What I am not clear about (nor convinced by) is how many people state to tie to a boulder. Sure this may meet the requirements (if hanging 10 feet down and also 4 feet away from the rock face) but most pictures I have seen of "Boulder hangs" do NOT meet the 4 feet requirement.

Mags- Just to clarify on the Ursack, are you suggesting that if the Ursack is tied off, say from a boulder, it does NOT need to be 4 feet from the rock as an Ursack is an approved "bear resistant container" as identified in Exhibit A 3A?

I will try to call tomorrow to confirm some of the questions above. Again I appreciate everyone's feedback (on this and other questions). I have plenty of time to straighten it out but I am bit excited so I am jumping the gun.

[Mags]

My understanding is you don't have to hang a bear canister, so I don't believe you have to hang an Ursack as, per the IGBC, the Ursack falls into the 3a and NOT the 3c category. In other words, treat the Ursack like a canister (other than tying it securely to a branch or boulder)

3. “Acceptably stored” means:
a. Stored in bear-resistant container certified through the Interagency Grizzly Bear CommitteeCourtesy Inspection Program. A container may be certified by the local district ranger or theirdesignated representative(s) if it meets the IGBC criteria, or

A normal food bag (non-IGBC certified) has to be

c. Suspended at least 10 feet clear of the ground at all points and four feet horizontally from anysupporting tree or pole, or

3a is how the Ursack is generally used (no hangs).

The "OR" statement is the key, I think. Otherwise, we'd all have to drive our cars into the mountains and do 3b. :)

"b. Stored in a closed vehicle where the storage compartment is constructed of solid, non-pliablematerial that, when secured, will have no openings, hinges, lids, or coverings that would allow abear to gain entry by breaking, bending, tearing, biting, or pulling with its claws (any windows inthe vehicle must be closed),


Most bear bags are done poorly so I think the Ursack is a good thing.

Much like alcohol stoves though, individual ranger districts and even rangers s may have their own interpretation, however: (http://www.ursack.com/faq/)

There is no uniform testing or approval mechanism for the National Park or Forest Services. However, many areas have assigned testing to the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC). The 2014 Ursack passed the IGBC test and has been given certification number 3738. Every park has its own standards for acceptable bear and critter resistant containers. For example, Canyonlands, Glacier and Mount Rainier National Parks have all purchased Ursacks, while other National Parks restrict or ban the use. Some parks require bear-resistant containers, but do not specify any particular brands. The most accurate information is usually on their websites. Sometimes rangers do not know the current rules. For example, Inyo National Forest has, by Forest Order since about 2009, required that in certain areas “food or refuse [be] stored in a container designed to prevent access by bears.” Inyo considers Ursack to be such a container although that is not written anywhere (except in emails from officials there). There have been reports that some rangers do not always know this, and tell campers that Ursack is not allowed. Some areas, e.g. Yosemite, specifically list the allowed containers. Ursack is currently not on that list although it is being considered.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Many campsites in the Winds do not have trees or lack suitable trees for hanging

[Studlintsean]

Thanks Mags. I agree with your logic. I called the ranger station on my way home from work to clarify and she (Personnel who answered phone ) suggested I call back Monday as the person who would know for sure would be there then.

[Venchka]

SOMETIMES IT IS BEST NOT TO CALL. oops.

Big Bend N.P. recently implemented the bear proof container requirement for CACHED (unattended) food & water. They chose to recognize ANY list of bear proof containers recognized by ANY National Park. There is a glimmer of hope for the US Government. To clarify, food and water carried with you at all times does NOT need a bear proof container in Big Bend N.P. Only food and water that is cached along a trail or road for pick up during a trip requires a bear proof container. The Ursack is approved as it is on the IGBC list.

Wayne