Grand Canyon - Rim to River to Rim?

[somers515]

Taking my boys (ages 11 and 13) who like to hike to the Grand Canyon in late June. I'm going to put in to arrive and stay at Mather Campground at the top of the Southern rim the evening that we arrive. The question is what to do the next day . . .

My boys want to hike Rim to River to Rim. I've read this is not recommended but I've seen others who have accomplished it by starting super early. I was thinking South Kaibab Trail down, touch the Colorado River and then hike back up the Bright Angel Trail. Pros: We could carry just day backs (with lots of water obviously) and then stay back at the Mather Campground. Cons: It will be a really strenuous day - overly so?

The second option is the same route to hike down and then either stay at the Bright Angel Campground at the bottom or the Indian Garden Campground on the way back up (I know I have to apply for permits to stay there). Pros: it breaks the rim to river to rim trip up so it's a little easier. Cons: We'd have to carry full packs with sleeping gear (question could we skip on sleeping bags if it's predicted to be really hot?), I'm worried about not sleeping well in the heat - would Indian Garden be cooler than Bright Angel Campground?

Third option - talk the boys out of the Rim to River to Rim, and perhaps try South Kaibab down and cross over the Tonto trail to Bright Angel trail back up or even just South Kaibab down to Skeleton Point and then right back up.

Thoughts? Other ideas? I want to decide soon so I can put in for the permits/reservations. Thank you in advance for any assistance!

[Wil]

The problem is it's unpredictable how a specific person is going to react unless he has a history in the canyon. How is a particular body going to react? I have done it (younger, wouldn't try it now) while not at all in good shape and enjoyed it up to the last couple of miles out. But others who are in prime condition get bad headaches, nausea, cramps and other maladies and find the last 2/3 of the hike out a joyless and painful trudge, and who needs that? One of the saddest parts of a couple of my trips has been seeing the gasping, horribly uncomfortable people draped over the benches at Indian Gardens water, too sick to drink the water they desperately need, moaning about how the hell are they going to get the rest of the way out.

End of June is likely to be oppressive. It's not just the heat, it's the debilitating relentless radiance of the sun blasting at you. But a little cloud cover and a mild breeze can make all the difference in the world.

I wouldn't do it, or take anybody along to do it, without enough canyon experience to know for sure they are good with the exertion in that sun.

[MuddyWaters]

Get a permit to stay overnight, or dont do it.

[Shutterbug]

Taking my boys (ages 11 and 13) who like to hike to the Grand Canyon in late June. I'm going to put in to arrive and stay at Mather Campground at the top of the Southern rim the evening that we arrive. The question is what to do the next day . . .

My boys want to hike Rim to River to Rim. I've read this is not recommended but I've seen others who have accomplished it by starting super early. I was thinking South Kaibab Trail down, touch the Colorado River and then hike back up the Bright Angel Trail. Pros: We could carry just day backs (with lots of water obviously) and then stay back at the Mather Campground. Cons: It will be a really strenuous day - overly so?

The second option is the same route to hike down and then either stay at the Bright Angel Campground at the bottom or the Indian Garden Campground on the way back up (I know I have to apply for permits to stay there). Pros: it breaks the rim to river to rim trip up so it's a little easier. Cons: We'd have to carry full packs with sleeping gear (question could we skip on sleeping bags if it's predicted to be really hot?), I'm worried about not sleeping well in the heat - would Indian Garden be cooler than Bright Angel Campground?

Third option - talk the boys out of the Rim to River to Rim, and perhaps try South Kaibab down and cross over the Tonto trail to Bright Angel trail back up or even just South Kaibab down to Skeleton Point and then right back up.

Thoughts? Other ideas? I want to decide soon so I can put in for the permits/reservations. Thank you in advance for any assistance!

A lot of people do the rim to river to rim successfully, but quite a few get into trouble too. There are several issues:

1. The time of year. June is dreadfully hot. I have seen it over 120 degrees at Bright Angel Campground at the end of June.
2. Lightening -- In June there is a big risk of lightening strikes, particularly on the South Kaibab Trail, but sometimes on the lower portion of the Bright Angel.
3. Unlike many other hikes, there are very limited "bail out" options. One of the favorite signs in the Grand Canyon says "Up is Mandatory." Once you get down in the canyon, you have to hike out. In life-threatening emergencies, a helicopter is an option, but who wants to get into a life threatening emergency?

In November, I took three of my grandsons (12, 13 & 13) to the Grand Canyon. We made it a three day hike. On day one we hiked down the Bright Angel Trail from the South Rim to the Bright Angel Campground (9.5 miles). On day two we hiked to Ribbon Falls and back (14 miles). One day three, we hiked back to the South Rim. The boys had a great time and really enjoyed the hike. Something like that would be my recommendation.

One of the big advantages of using the Bright Angel Campground as a base is that you can use the duffle service. You can send your camping gear down on a mule so you can hike with just a day pack. It makes the hike much more enjoyable.

If you are interested, here is a link to my pictures from that hike: https://picasaweb.google.com/112968072096587968801/GrandCanyonAdventureNov2015

One of the options you mentioned was hiking down the South Kaibab Trail to the Tonto Trail then across to Indian Garden. I did that hike earlier last year. I found the Tonto Trail to be rather boring. I don't recommend it.

My usual recommendation for 1st time Grand Canyon hikers is to do a day hike from the South Rim to Indian Garden and back. For the end of June, it would be good to hike down in the morning. Lay around in the shade during the hot part of the day, then hike out late afternoon. People who have done that hike on my recommendation fall into two camps. Almost half say "never again!!" The other half love it and have to go back for longer hikes.

[somers515]

Thank you all for responding so quickly. I think with these 3 posts I'll be able to talk my boys into a more reasonable plan. : )


A lot of people do the rim to river to rim successfully, but quite a few get into trouble too. There are several issues:

1. The time of year. June is dreadfully hot. I have seen it over 120 degrees at Bright Angel Campground at the end of June.
2. Lightening -- In June there is a big risk of lightening strikes, particularly on the South Kaibab Trail, but sometimes on the lower portion of the Bright Angel.
3. Unlike many other hikes, there are very limited "bail out" options. One of the favorite signs in the Grand Canyon says "Up is Mandatory." Once you get down in the canyon, you have to hike out. In life-threatening emergencies, a helicopter is an option, but who wants to get into a life threatening emergency?

In November, I took three of my grandsons (12, 13 & 13) to the Grand Canyon. We made it a three day hike. On day one we hiked down the Bright Angel Trail from the South Rim to the Bright Angel Campground (9.5 miles). On day two we hiked to Ribbon Falls and back (14 miles). One day three, we hiked back to the South Rim. The boys had a great time and really enjoyed the hike. Something like that would be my recommendation.

One of the big advantages of using the Bright Angel Campground as a base is that you can use the duffle service. You can send your camping gear down on a mule so you can hike with just a day pack. It makes the hike much more enjoyable.

If you are interested, here is a link to my pictures from that hike: https://picasaweb.google.com/112968072096587968801/GrandCanyonAdventureNov2015

One of the options you mentioned was hiking down the South Kaibab Trail to the Tonto Trail then across to Indian Garden. I did that hike earlier last year. I found the Tonto Trail to be rather boring. I don't recommend it.

My usual recommendation for 1st time Grand Canyon hikers is to do a day hike from the South Rim to Indian Garden and back. For the end of June, it would be good to hike down in the morning. Lay around in the shade during the hot part of the day, then hike out late afternoon. People who have done that hike on my recommendation fall into two camps. Almost half say "never again!!" The other half love it and have to go back for longer hikes.

Gotcha - so if hot with no cloud cover I'll do that plan. If I get lucky and it's cooler I can do South Kaibab to Skeleton Point and back. I can make a game day decision. Thanks again!

[Dogwood]

The problem is it's unpredictable how a specific person is going to react unless he has a history in the canyon. How is a particular body going to react? I have done it (younger, wouldn't try it now) while not at all in good shape and enjoyed it up to the last couple of miles out. But others who are in prime condition get bad headaches, nausea, cramps and other maladies and find the last 2/3 of the hike out a joyless and painful trudge, and who needs that? One of the saddest parts of a couple of my trips has been seeing the gasping, horribly uncomfortable people draped over the benches at Indian Gardens water, too sick to drink the water they desperately need, moaning about how the hell are they going to get the rest of the way out.

End of June is likely to be oppressive. It's not just the heat, it's the debilitating relentless radiance of the sun blasting at you. But a little cloud cover and a mild breeze can make all the difference in the world.

I wouldn't do it, or take anybody along to do it, without enough canyon experience to know for sure they are good with the exertion in that sun.

This!


A lot of people do the rim to river to rim successfully, but quite a few get into trouble too.(I personally have noticed few enjoyably doing this and when I have it's usually a solo male or two young adult males exhibiting very good athleticism/fitness and oozing testosterone). There are several issues:

1. The time of year. June is dreadfully hot. I have seen it over 120 degrees at Bright Angel Campground at the end of June.
2. Lightening -- In June there is a big risk of lightening strikes, particularly on the South Kaibab Trail, but sometimes on the lower portion of the Bright Angel.
3. Unlike many other hikes, there are very limited "bail out" options. One of the favorite signs in the Grand Canyon says "Up is Mandatory." Once you get down in the canyon, you have to hike out...

In November, I took three of my grandsons (12, 13 & 13) to the Grand Canyon. We made it a three day hike. On day one we hiked down the Bright Angel Trail from the South Rim to the Bright Angel Campground (9.5 miles). On day two we hiked to Ribbon Falls and back (14 miles). One day three, we hiked back to the South Rim. The boys had a great time and really enjoyed the hike. Something like that would be my recommendation.

One of the big advantages of using the Bright Angel Campground as a base is that you can use the duffle service. You can send your camping gear down on a mule so you can hike with just a day pack. It makes the hike much more enjoyable.

My usual recommendation for 1st time Grand Canyon hikers is to do a day hike from the South Rim to Indian Garden and back. For the end of June, it would be good to hike down in the morning. Lay around in the shade during the hot part of the day, then hike out late afternoon. People who have done that hike on my recommendation fall into two camps. Almost half say "never again!!" The other half love it and have to go back for longer hikes.

This!

I place myself in this camp: "the other half love it and have to go back for longer hikes." Four done in a day rim to river back to the rim GC NP hikes. On the main corridor trails one done in a day S. Rim to N. Rim and two others down the S. Kaibab and either back up the S. Kaibab or BA to the S. Rim all when I was in in primo LD hiking condition and as one who actually enjoys hiking in the heat and blazing sun. I spent many yrs living in Fl working outside all yr long doing landscape installation. Only once though did I do a rim to rim done in a day in late June. I like GCNP in fall and winter more than summer. After everyone of those rim to river to rim hikes I can tell you it was a LONG day and when my head hit the sleeping bag I was quickly asleep. It's a more than 9000 ft elevation change and going down the S Kaibab isn't all rosy either as it has steps and has bone jarring steepness to it. Both the BA and SK have little shade too.

Although some succeed at doing done in a day rim to river to rim I absolutely would not advise you organize your GC NP hike that way and only after some personal inquiry would I suggest it to anyone.

THIS is the hike I'd also rec: "...We made it a three day hike. On day one we hiked down the Bright Angel Trail from the South Rim to the Bright Angel Campground (9.5 miles). On day two we hiked to Ribbon Falls and back (14 miles). One day three, we hiked back to the South Rim. The boys had a great time and really enjoyed the hike. Something like that would be my recommendation."

Ye,s Indian Garden CG is cooler in temp than BA CG. IG CG is well shaded with large Cottonwood trees and is some 1000 ft+m higher in elev.

[Hosh]

We have done it twice, both times staying at BA CG and Indian Gardens. The interesting part is most everyone thought going down S Kaibab was the most difficult part. Myself and my brother in our 50's, my daughters and friend in their early 20's.

We started down at 7:00 am in late May and it was in the low 40's on the south rim. When we reached Phantom Ranch, it was 110 deg in the sun. Even though the corridor trails are maintained, the mule trains destroy the trail especially the switch backs.

The River trail and Bright Angel trail have alot more shade, especially early in the day. Both Devil's Corkscrew and Jacob's Ladder are pretty tough, hence the biblical references. At Three Mile Rest House and above you'll run into hundreds of tourist wearing $500 Italian loafers with a pint water heading to the Colorado River. Unfortunately, the Park Service doesn't communicate "uphill hiker has the right of way" on it's signage. You will be constantly stopping, getting bumped and avoiding the downhill hikers.

We all drank 4 liters of water going down, trekking poles are very helpful, and the sun is brutal.

We saw several rim to rim to rim hikers, one guy was boinked. We gave them some electrolytes and Clif bars to re-energize them.

Rather than do it all in a day with your head down most of the way, take some time. It is indeed the 8th wonder of the world and viewing it from the rim doesn't do it justice.

As Walter Hagan the golfer said "You're only here for a short visit. Don't hurry, don't worry. And be sure to smell the flowers along the way"

A good resource: http://www.hitthetrail.com/

[swjohnsey]

Someone fit will have no problem going down Kaibab. along river and up Bright Angel. It is a long day so an early start helps. You are unlikely to get the necessary permits to camp in the canyon. At Indian Gardens you can probably stealth camp if they have a problem.

[Wil]

Someone fit will have no problem going down Kaibab. along river and up Bright Angel. It is a long day so an early start helps. You are unlikely to get the necessary permits to camp in the canyon. At Indian Gardens you can probably stealth camp if they have a problem.Very efficient post; extremely high density of bad information. Or joking maybe.

Fitness is only one element; a person's genes and the specific weather that day are far more significant than level of fitness. A permit request faxed on February one (June permit lottery day) that includes flexibility in dates and campgrounds is close to 100% likely to be successful. While its true that there might _occasionally_ be a laid back ranger checking permits at Indian Garden that is usually not the case. On one occasion, on returning in the dark from a sunset walk out to Plateau Point, we were confronted by an armed ranger with the strap off his gun and hand on it, aggressively challenging everyone. He force-marched us to our campsite to check the permit.

In general I believe smileys are cheating, but unless you really have the knack for humorous writing they really are a good idea.

[Dogwood]

Someone fit will have no problem going down Kaibab. along river and up Bright Angel. It is a long day so an early start helps. You are unlikely to get the necessary permits to camp in the canyon. At Indian Gardens you can probably stealth camp if they have a problem.

I question much of the reliability of this info as well. The OP said, "we could carry just day backs (with lots of water obviously) and then stay back at the Mather Campground." If that is the case the party is committing to a DONE in a DAY S. Rim to the CR back to the S. Rim agenda. As Shutterbug wisely said, "unlike many other hikes, there are very limited "bail out" options. One of the favorite signs in the Grand Canyon says "Up is Mandatory." Once you get down in the canyon, you have to hike out."



Very efficient post; extremely high density of bad information. Or joking maybe.

Fitness is only one element; a person's genes and the specific weather that day are far more significant than level of fitness. A permit request faxed on February one (June permit lottery day) that includes flexibility in dates and campgrounds is close to 100% likely to be successful. While its true that there might _occasionally_ be a laid back ranger checking permits at Indian Garden that is usually not the case. On one occasion, on returning in the dark from a sunset walk out to Plateau Point, we were confronted by an armed ranger with the strap off his gun and hand on it, aggressively challenging everyone. He force-marched us to our campsite to check the permit.

In general I believe smileys are cheating, but unless you really have the knack for humorous writing they really are a good idea.

NP Rangers attitudes at IG CG can vary. I too have met up with NP Rangers at IG with a very no nonsense no BS taken attitude. Then, also the most understandable easiest going NP Rangers in case of one physical emergency I had when I unexpectedly had to stay there with it not being part of my permit. IG CG, in my opinion, likely experiences the greatest degree of yahoos and human ignorance...those over estimating their capabilities and underestimating the degree of effort involved in descending and ascending thousands of feet in a single day in the hot sun. NP Rangers will work with people but that is no open door to abusing them or the NP policies.

BTW, to make it clear even though I'm capable of going down the river from the North or South Rims and back up on a variety of trails IN A DAY I've only chosen to do it on four occasions out of more than 30 times going from the rim to the river back to either of the rims.

[Hosh]

Permits will be easier in June. The hardest one is Cottonwood CG near the north rim. Bright Angel had empty sites both times we stayed for one night. They limit BA CG to 90 persons. Indian Gardens is not real large, but it doesn't have as much traffic.

As far as not following the rules, there are rangers, guides, and employees everywhere with radios on the corridor trails. On the way out, a mule train stopped at the Rest house blocking the trail. A hiker short cut a switch back to get around them and all hell broke loose. The tour guides radioed ahead his description, location and the rangers eventually caught him.

They also keep a number of walk up permits at the backcountry office. We meet a couple who arrive the same day and got a BA CG permit. Bad news is the Backcountry Office doesn't open till 8. With a shuttle ride, your getting a late first day start. Here's some statistics by month http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/permit_change.htm

Another good resource is Hikernut's Grand Canyon Companion by Brian Lane

[Shutterbug]

One more post -- http://grandcanyonnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=11335

This news story is from last season. There was similar story from the year before.

At one of the "Ask a Ranger" sessions at Phantom Ranch, I asked a Ranger to discuss why there are so many deaths. The Ranger said that people drive clear across the country or sometimes travel from other countries to hike in the Grand Canyon. They overestimate their physical ability and don't allow enough time. As a result of poor planning, they end up attempting hikes that are beyond their reasonable capability.

Let me address my concern about your alternate plan -- hike down to Skeleton Point and back. When you get to Skeleton Point and look down the black bridge and the Colorado River don't seem that far away. I have observed that a lot of people who intended to turn around at Skeleton Point get there then decide to go on. It is really hard to turn around when the river seems so close.

I suggest that a better option is to hike down the Bright Angel Trail to Indian Garden. You might even go the extra 1 1/2 miles to Plateau Point as your turn-around.

[Coffee]

I like Shutterbug's suggestion of Plateau Point as a goal for a day hike if things are looking good at Indian Garden. I was capable of much more but took three nights to hike rim to rim in 2013 staying one night each at Indian Garden, Bright Angel and Cottonwood. It was a terrific experience. It was right at the end of May/beginning of June. Hot but not oppressive yet. I really need to get back to Grand Canyon.

[Hosh]

Plateau Point is beautiful, especially with a setting sun. I do think if you're doing a day hike, the South Kaibab trail is far more scenic with excellent panoramas of the Canyon. The Bright Angel trail is in a canyon most of the time restricting views. South Kaibab is on a ridge line almost the entire time.

[HooKooDooKu]

If your boys really want to do a Rim-River-Rim hike, I would suggest trying to get a permit to camp at Indian Gardens Campground for two nights.

1. You can hike to Plateau Point and still have time to hike back out that same day if you decide the weather is just too hot to camp at that elevation for the night.
2. Your hike to the river can be a day hike with the bulk of your gear remaining in your tent at Indian Gardens. If you start early in the morning, you should be able to get down to the river and back up to Indian Gardens before the heat of they day.
3. Once you get back to Indian Garden, if you feel like you have the energy for it and the weather at that eleveation is cool enough, you an still go for a River-To_rim hike in one day. But with your camping gear at Indian Gardens, you have the option of spending another night at Indian Gardens and make your final assault on the Rim early the next morning before the heat of the day again.

[swjohnsey]

Very efficient post; extremely high density of bad information. Or joking maybe.

Fitness is only one element; a person's genes and the specific weather that day are far more significant than level of fitness. A permit request faxed on February one (June permit lottery day) that includes flexibility in dates and campgrounds is close to 100% likely to be successful. While its true that there might _occasionally_ be a laid back ranger checking permits at Indian Garden that is usually not the case. On one occasion, on returning in the dark from a sunset walk out to Plateau Point, we were confronted by an armed ranger with the strap off his gun and hand on it, aggressively challenging everyone. He force-marched us to our campsite to check the permit.

In general I believe smileys are cheating, but unless you really have the knack for humorous writing they really are a good idea.

You sound a little wimpy. The last time I did that route I didn't get started until noon.

[Coffee]

You sound a little wimpy. The last time I did that route I didn't get started until noon.
Is that relevant when applied to a 11 and 13 year old with no prior canyon experience? Also advising someone to stealth camp at Indian Garden is irresponsible. Ethics aside they almost certainly would be cited. That area is hardly wilderness.

[fiddlehead]

Take a flashlight

[HooKooDooKu]

...Also advising someone to stealth camp at Indian Garden is irresponsible. Ethics aside they almost certainly would be cited...
Not only irresponsible, but against the TOS of White Blazes...
Park rules carry the weight of law. To suggest stealth camping would be to suggest committing an illegal act, and discussions on how to commit illegal acts are against the TOS of White Blazes.

[Dogwood]

One more post -- http://grandcanyonnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=11335

This news story is from last season. There was similar story from the year before.

At one of the "Ask a Ranger" sessions at Phantom Ranch, I asked a Ranger to discuss why there are so many deaths. The Ranger said that people drive clear across the country or sometimes travel from other countries to hike in the Grand Canyon. They overestimate their physical ability and don't allow enough time. As a result of poor planning, they end up attempting hikes that are beyond their reasonable capability...

This is another wise inclusion to this thread. It applies to what I'm observing happening here!

This is a hot dry STRENUOUS hike with exposure to virtually relentless sun during late June(HOT!) in A - RI - ZO - NA by a party with two ambitious adolescents, who are to put it bluntly ignorant about several aspects, on their first time to GC NP unknowing of conditions and untested considering a r2river2r DONE IN A DAY agenda. They are not coming from southern Texas. They are coming from the Freehold NJ area. I've repeatedly seen happen exactly as the NP Ranger Shutterbug quoted... east coasters, foreigners, etc coming from somewhere else underestimating this hike and overestimating their capabilities by attempting it in a DONE IN A DAY fashion. This is not just a hike about fitness or the moderate total daily mileage. Other aspects come into play.

Even if starting early morning 6 a.m., not a time I would assume people on vacation are always gung ho about, in late June it will likely be be 70- 80* at the S Rim, great going down(it usually is), but by the time you hit the Colorado River(CR) it will be near 100*. Even after a delay at the CR, you will still be heading back up almost 5000 ft in hot afternoon sun in the 90's*. AND, in late June NO WAY would I depend on overcast skies in ARIZONA.

Based on your party, you are 97% BEST off breaking r2river2r into an overnighter.

[magic_game03]

(Slightly off topic but still somewhat related) I have hiked in many places across this beautiful country and had many different experiences, like so many others here. IMO, the Bright Angel trail is the worst trail I've ever had to experience. I hiked the GC in October and the weather was perfect, still the trail was an awful adventure. I absolutely liked the Grand Canyon and have a desire to return, but never to the Bright Angel trail again. The GC village is just as bad, too.

[Hosh]

The physical component of hiking into and out of the Grand Canyon is pretty intimidating. The trails are very steep in places, extremely irregular surfaces with some 12 to 16" steps. Brutal sun and heat conditions with little chance for shade.

One element that is often overlooked is the mental aspect. Unlike most strenuous mountain hikes where return leg is generally downhill, a GC hike is in reverse. Once you get to the bottom, the hard part is in front of you.

[Coffee]

Bright Angel is what it is, and what it is not is a wilderness trail. In fact the entire corridor isn't anything close to wilderness. Approached in that mindset, I enjoyed it. If someone expects wilderness then it would be awful.

[Wil]

the entire corridor isn't anything close to wilderness. Approached in that mindset, I enjoyed it. If someone expects wilderness then it would be awful.OK. But if you can tune out the traffic, the hike down is wonderful. And at the bottom, once you're past Phantom Ranch and out of the Box, the canyon opens up and the corridor from there north is just a beautiful walk, and relatively lightly travelled unless you hit a mass running day.

Even going down the South Kaibab Trail, seems to me about 1/2 the traffic cuts out at Cedar Ridge (only maybe 1 1/2 miles down?) and by the switchbacks it's thinned out to be reasonably unobtrusive. The Bright Angel Trail is one long slum. If a person can carry, say, 3-4 quarts of water from the bottom, I'd use the South Kaibab as an exit route as well.

[Coffee]

The entire corridor was unbelievably full of people when I was there: hikers, backpackers, runners, mules, you name it. But it was still a great hike. I want to go back and explore outside the corridor.

[Wil]

I want to go back and explore outside the corridor.Somebody in this thread said he was bored by the Tonto Trail; but I think it's a great first step off the corridor. You're walking along the canyon with a constantly changing perspective from a level about 1/2 way down so you're looking both way down and way up. The Tonto level (not just the Trail named for it on that one long stretch) exists all over and makes a great off-trail experience with usually easy walking. Lots of people pick the Hermit Trail as their first venture off the corridor, frequently combined with trips to some river beaches and a long stretch of the Tonto Trail.

[Dogwood]

(Slightly off topic but still somewhat related) I have hiked in many places across this beautiful country and had many different experiences, like so many others here. IMO, the Bright Angel trail is the worst trail I've ever had to experience. I hiked the GC in October and the weather was perfect, still the trail was an awful adventure. I absolutely liked the Grand Canyon and have a desire to return, but never to the Bright Angel trail again. The GC village is just as bad, too.



Bright Angel is what it is, and what it is not is a wilderness trail. In fact the entire corridor isn't anything close to wilderness. Approached in that mindset, I enjoyed it. If someone expects wilderness then it would be awful.



OK. But if you can tune out the traffic, the hike down is wonderful. And at the bottom, once you're past Phantom Ranch and out of the Box, the canyon opens up and the corridor from there north is just a beautiful walk, and relatively lightly travelled unless you hit a mass running day.


Even going down the South Kaibab Trail, seems to me about 1/2 the traffic cuts out at Cedar Ridge (only maybe 1 1/2 miles down?) and by the switchbacks it's thinned out to be reasonably unobtrusive. The Bright Angel Trail is one long slum. If a person can carry, say, 3-4 quarts of water from the bottom, I'd use the South Kaibab as an exit route as well.



The entire corridor was unbelievably full of people when I was there: hikers, backpackers, runners, mules, you name it. But it was still a great hike. I want to go back and explore outside the corridor.


Just as with anything we can change our perspectives of situations by changing what we do. Seems better to me to do that than expecting everything outside of us that we tend to have much less control of to change. Just like anywhere a hike down the BA can be approached NOT to coincide with the masses and certainly have elements of wilderness. A hike on the well maintained gradually graded BA can be approached as a night into gorgeous sunrise hike particularly appealing to this hiker if in GC NP in June if descending on a weekend or during other high use hottest weather scenarios which can work nicely too with getting permits. Starting down from the S. Rim can be started under starlight for a great night hike into the GC. With some awareness of footing IMHO the BA is ideal for night hiking particularly in fair weather. This beats the do as others do follow the hoard's behavior mentality. Being apprised of GC NP user stats helps. For example, last time I checked less than 5 % of all GC NP visitors descend past the rim. Of those that do descend 75+ % are choosing the corridor trails to hike with BA being the most hiked under the rim trail in GC NP. From those considerations it makes sense, at least to me, if I want a wilderness experience to not hike the BA from the S. Rim to the CR or back up to the S. Rim on the BA during periods of peak park or peak BA usage. It's not rocket science but it seems the majority of humanity has a problem approaching situations with a balanced willingness to think outside of the box and demonstrating a modicum of creativity and personal responsibility.



Somebody in this thread said he was bored by the Tonto Trail; but I think it's a great first step off the corridor. You're walking along the canyon with a constantly changing perspective from a level about 1/2 way down so you're looking both way down and way up. The Tonto level (not just the Trail named for it on that one long stretch) exists all over and makes a great off-trail experience with usually easy walking. Lots of people pick the Hermit Trail as their first venture off the corridor, frequently combined with trips to some river beaches and a long stretch of the Tonto Trail.


I personally find the Tonto Tr in its entirety particularly as one gets further away from the corridor junctions to be a great GC NP hike, that is unless one needs cookie cutter follow the masses and conveniences of the corridor trails.

[somers515]

This is a hot dry STRENUOUS hike with exposure to virtually relentless sun during late June(HOT!) in A - RI - ZO - NA by a party with two ambitious adolescents, who are to put it bluntly ignorant about several aspects, on their first time to GC NP unknowing of conditions and untested considering a r2river2r DONE IN A DAY agenda. They are not coming from southern Texas. They are coming from the Freehold NJ area. I've repeatedly seen happen exactly as the NP Ranger Shutterbug quoted... east coasters, foreigners, etc coming from somewhere else underestimating this hike and overestimating their capabilities by attempting it in a DONE IN A DAY fashion. This is not just a hike about fitness or the moderate total daily mileage. Other aspects come into play.

In case anyone is wondering - I'm convinced! Hiking in Grand Canyon National Park will not be underestimated by us. Plan is just to hike PART way down and back up day hike. Thank you all for chiming in. I've learned a lot about the trails and the risks and what to be cautious about. I really do value and appreciate all the input.

[Shutterbug]

Somebody in this thread said he was bored by the Tonto Trail; but I think it's a great first step off the corridor. .. I was the one who said I was bored by the portion of the Tonto Trail between Indian Garden and the Tip Off.

I suggest the Clear Creek Trail for those wanting to venture off the corridor. It is parallel to the Tonto Trail on the North side of the river.

[kimbur96]

In October 2103 I hiked to the bottom via SKT, it is a steeper route than BA with less water. It is a beautiful hike with some amazing huge views. We spent the night at Phantom and hike out the BA the next morning. The bottom section of BA we only saw a few other hikers heading out early, but by the time you got to the last mile near the top it was very crowded. But that's to be expected. A note about SKT a lot of it is set up as large stair steps. I found trekking poles to be a great addition here and help relieve the repeated stress on your knees. If you have knee problems (didn't read that you did but just throwing this out there) I think this could be a difficult trail for you. I saw one 20 something couple doing a Rim to Rim that day. We spoke with a couple of the rangers who were quite concerned because they were behind what the rangers thought was an acceptable time table to get down and up in daylight. I would definitely bring some kind of filtration system as there is frequently trouble with the aging water system in the canyon. We even brought a spare water bladder so that if there was a problem when we found a filterable source we could carry and extra 80oz in addition to our 60oz each to ensure we had enough to get out.

[colorado_rob]

Just one more opinion, having done a combined 40+ Kaibab/Bright Angle trail hikes to river and back: You can do this thing, and have a fantastic experience and fairly easily if:

1) you are all in decent shape and not significantly overweight
2) you leave squirrely-early, like 2-3am, not easy to do with kids, I understand, I raised a couple myself
3) you take adequate lighting for the 2-3am start, like two headlamps each, one on you head, the other held in one hand which casts shadows so you can see rocks/depressions easier. A headlamp on your head does not cast shadows (to your own eyes). If you only have one headlamp (each), I'd carry it in my hand. Good, bright (70 lumens+) headlamps are dirt cheap these days.
4) down the S. Kaibab, up the BA, of course, because of the water availability going up

Anecdotes: I did my first RrR (R=Rim, r=river) when I was 14, solo, while on a vacation with my parents, starting at first light, 3 hours down, 7 back up. It was in late May, right after school let out. I think I remember this right, because it was such a fantastic experience. Sure, I was exhausted when I topped out.

I took my two kids, son 12, daughter 10 on a Kaibab-Bright Angel loop, they did fine, it was early June. We did a first light start then as well. Both of them played soccer, so were in decent shape. We went back and did a kinda-repeat a few Junes ago. We had a blast. We swam in the CO river. Brrrrrrrr..... water is in the low 40's......

Yeah, June is NOT the ideal time, April or October is, but if June is when you gotta go, you can make it work.

A very doable itinerary might be: 2-3am start, remember, AZ does not do daylight savings, so that time of year it starts getting light at 4:30 or so, very good light by 5. Hiking in the Grand Canyon in the dark and wee hours is a fantastic, ethereal experience. I simply love it. You own it. It's quiet and beautiful, even in the pitch dark. Last year I saw a bobcat sitting right next to the trail, looking at me quizzically. Beautiful animal. Lots of wildlife out there at night. Again, the two-headlamp thing makes it easy and safe. Down the s. Kaibab, even walking very leisurely, it's only 3 hours to the river (when hiking deliberately, I do it in 2). Rather than take the trail-cutoff over to the BA trail south of the river, I would go ahead and cross the black bridge and head to the junction just east of Phantom Ranch where there is a bathroom and water spigot. You could hike into Phantom itself if you wanted, but really no need. Plenty of sitting-rocks near the bathroom/water spigot to take a nice break at.

Cross back over the Silver Bridge, and start up before the real heat of the day starts. There is a nice little swimming beach just as the trail leaves the river to start up. We've "swam" there before (waded up to our waists....). Freezing cold water. refreshing! But my least favorite mile of the trail is along the river, between the silver bridge and this beach. soft sand. goes up and down. sucks energy. Still, the river is beautiful.

The next few miles would be the toughest, heading up the switchbacks below Indian Gardens. It's starting to get really warm now, and the sun will be relentless. I'd start up from Phantom with a full belly of water and 2 quarts, and try to consume most of this before Indian gardens.

EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY: Make sure you're getting plenty of electrolytes!!!! Google up hyponatremia, probably the #1 danger hiking in these conditions.

Now you're at Indian gardens, lots of shade, take a nice break, hydrate, eat, take electrolyte supplents. Not you have three 1.5 mile hikes to get to the rim. Think of it this way. Three 1.5 mile hikes. Take a nice break after each. Sit in the shade and cool of at the 3 mile and 1.5 mile houses. I like to soak my sun hat shirt a few times on the way up (at the three water stops). Helps with cooling. The good news is that it cools off as you ascend. Yeah, there will be crowds as you get closer to the rim. But the trail is w-i-d-e. Mules are annoying, thankfully, this stretch is the only time you have to deal with them.

Break it up with a camp at BA campground? Sure, if you want. I personally don't like Phantom Ranch much, and we usually blitz through it on our GC treks. If you do camp, pack ultralight! You wont need much in terms of a tent or sleeping bags camped at the river in June. Go stoveless. who needs a hot meal in 100+ degree temps? Buy snacks at Phantom Ranch canteen. Good lemonade! But why would you want to deal with that heat by staying at the bottom in June? Get to Phantom at 5-6am, phantastic place at that time of day, and start heading back up and out before 7am, get a couple thousand feet higher and 10 degrees cooler before the real heat of the day starts setting in.

Risks? there are risks to all things adventurous outdoors. One of you could severely sprain an ankle. Be careful.

That's my take on this, obviously different from a lot of can't-dos' opinions. I probably won't check back on this thread just because I get so annoyed at the Whiteblaze-can't-do's. They don't want you to do things because they know they, themselves, cannot. I realize I'm being nasty.

[tdoczi]

similar to the above but a variant on how to approach this (if youre going to, i wouldnt, not with inexperienced kids, but who knows what they can do or not) that i would do would be to start down early, but after sunrise. around 6am or so, reaching the river (or phantom ranch) by about 9 or 10 am, then get out a good book and find a shady spot and sit there until 4pm. (the devil's corkscew should be in the shade by the time you reach it) start back up and reach the rim by 10 or 11.

somewhere on my to do list is a single day canyon traverse and if i ever get around to it thats more or less how i'd do it.

[colorado_rob]

Woops, I'm waffling about checking back because I forgot to mention one small logistics point: You cannot park at the S. Kaibab trailhead unless you have an overnight permit. There is a free shuttle to it, but it doesn't run until 5am or so (maybe later). As I said already, I would not start that late.

However, as you're heading away from the village towards the trailhead, drive just past the Yaki point road, there is a small parking lot on your right. You can park there and walk 0.3-0.4 miles to the trailhead from there. Head up the Yaki point road for a hundred yards or so, then turn left towards the trailhead. don't miss this left turn! (I did, once). I've used this little parking area at least a dozen times, parked all day.

This assumes you have no one to drive you to the trailhead at 2-3am.... when you get done at the BA trailhead, you can take a shuttle back to the S. Kaibab t/h. That kinda stinks because you then have to walk that additional 0.3-0.4 miles from the trailhead back to your car.... And your feet are sore.... Check the bus schedules, I think they run until sunset, which is rather late in June.

[Shutterbug]

I was looking through some of my pictures and came across this picture. It was taken at Bright Angel Campground in June 5 years ago.

https://scontent.fphx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/170085_10150134417785196_6733199_o.jpg

[colorado_rob]

I was looking through some of my pictures and came across this picture. It was taken at Bright Angel Campground in June 5 years ago.
The precise reason no one should consider camping anywhere near the bottom of the Grand Canyon in June. Get to the bottom before first light, enjoy that quality time bit; and first light is marvelous at the river, and start out before the heat of the day. real simple.

[CarlZ993]

I've been to the Grand Canyon many times (14 times total; 7 times w/ youth). I've been there twice in June w/ my Grandkids. I wouldn't plan a 'done in a day' rim to river to rim hike w/ an 11 & 13 yr old. The margin for error is too slim.

On one June hike, I saw a group of young kids in a school group attempt to hike out from Bright Angel Campground (river) via Bright Angel Trl. They started at night (10:30 pm?). I was with my 15 yr Granddaughter, her friend, & my wife. When we hiked out (we got a 3:30 start), we saw some of the kids at the Market up top. They were bragging that three of the kids (including the one we were talking to) were airlifted out of the canyon for heat exhaustion. One had to be flown all the way to Flagstaff for treatment.

If you had time & the permits, I'd recommend this itinerary for youngsters:
Day 1 = S. Kaibab Trl to Bright Angel Campground (7M; get the earliest start possible to view the sunrise in the canyon); no water along the trail.
Day 2 = 2nd night @ BA Campground; day-hike up to Ribbon Falls & back (12M; if one in your party had a bad 1st day; use this as a rest day); this follows Bright Angel Creek. Get wet early & often to keep your temperatures down; wear cotton shirts
Day 3 = Hike up BA Trl to Indian Gardens (~4.7M); set up camp; do a sunset hike out to Plateau Point & back (3M; maybe cook your dinner there; great view).
Day 4 = Hike out on the BA Trl (4.6M & 3,000' elevation gain). Again, get an early start. With a late June start, the 3M and 1.5M rest houses should have water (they shut off the water between Oct & Apr).

Enjoy your trip. As someone alluded to earlier, the signs at the trailheads say: 'Going down is optional, up is mandatory.' https://www.google.com/search?q=grand+canyon+signs&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=809&tbm=isch&imgil=HAWuZDt27-dn8M%253A%253BbrkD0VUKKYoQ6M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252 F%25252Fsites.gsu.edu%25252Ftechcomm-fall-2014%25252F2014%25252F10%25252F09%25252Faudience-resistance-death-injury-and-the-grand-canyon%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HAWuZDt27-dn8M%253A%252CbrkD0VUKKYoQ6M%252C_&usg=__NWOi033LATw77HLCeSLdsK4hwjk%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiEx5WTl8jKAhUjvYMKHcnGASIQyjcISA&ei=yMSnVoTDAqP6jgTJjYeQAg#imgrc=HAWuZDt27-dn8M%3A

[Carl7]

Based on your group, time of year, and lack of prior canyon experience, I suggest taking the donkey ride to the bottom and back. You can then stay at the Phantom Ranch campground or cabins at the bottom. They also feed you there if you stay in the cabins. The food is great. Reservations are required well in advance in addition to cash. You can get your fill of day hiking from Phantom Ranch after the donkey ride. This will be plenty for all with heat over 100. Take plenty of sun block, brimmed hats, sunglasses, long sleeved shirt for sun protection, and drink all the water you can. If the boys like this trip, then it can lead to a lifetime of future trips to the canyon. Remember, it's not about the miles, it's about the smiles!

[somers515]

Just in case anyone is curious we hiked down the South Kaibab past Ooh Aah point to Cedar Ridge and back up for our day hike. It was hot and we easily drank 1 liter each of water. We couldn't get as early of a start as I wanted so Skeleton Point and back was a no-go. I thought something a park ranger said to me was interesting after I resisted his gentle suggestion that we do the Bright Angel trail instead. He said "Bright Angel is the interstate and South Kaibab is like a back country road". Exactly why I was happy with our decision.

A couple of interesting moments besides the amazing views of course. At one point my wife sat down to rest in a little shade and a squirrel came up and nibbled on her camera bag (which had no food in it). At another point we moved as far out of the way as we could to avoid a donkey train coming up and the last donkey decided to stop breaking the train and causing the second to last donkey to kick wildly in our direction - kind of a close call for me and my son but certainly memorable!

All in all a great visit to the Grand Canyon and I'd love to come back and spend more time there although I personally enjoyed Zion and Arches even more. Thank you whiteblaze for all the tips.

[Shutterbug]

Just in case anyone is curious we hiked down the South Kaibab past Ooh Aah point to Cedar Ridge and back up for our day hike. It was hot and we easily drank 1 liter each of water. We couldn't get as early of a start as I wanted so Skeleton Point and back was a no-go. I thought something a park ranger said to me was interesting after I resisted his gentle suggestion that we do the Bright Angel trail instead. He said "Bright Angel is the interstate and South Kaibab is like a back country road". Exactly why I was happy with our decision.

A couple of interesting moments besides the amazing views of course. At one point my wife sat down to rest in a little shade and a squirrel came up and nibbled on her camera bag (which had no food in it). At another point we moved as far out of the way as we could to avoid a donkey train coming up and the last donkey decided to stop breaking the train and causing the second to last donkey to kick wildly in our direction - kind of a close call for me and my son but certainly memorable!

All in all a great visit to the Grand Canyon and I'd love to come back and spend more time there although I personally enjoyed Zion and Arches even more. Thank you whiteblaze for all the tips.

Thanks for reporting back.

[RockDoc]

Be careful, the Canyon is a trap. Easy to get down, hard to get back up.
I would test them first on something tough, but potentially more forgiving. Do a few tough 14ers in Colorado, for example.
If you do it, go during the shoulder season, March or October, when it is cooler but the days are still reasonably long.

There was a book about hiking/falling deaths in the Grand Canyon. Contrary to expectation, most of the deaths were very fit young people.

I've hiked the Canyon many times, and almost every time I've seen epics happening... I think you know what I mean. People who barely squeeked by dying.

[aztarheel]

Great photos!


If you are interested, here is a link to my pictures from that hike: https://picasaweb.google.com/1129680...ventureNov2015 (https://picasaweb.google.com/112968072096587968801/GrandCanyonAdventureNov2015)

[Shutterbug]

I have another Grand Canyon Adventure scheduled for October. This one will just be a rim to rim starting on the North Rim.

I was surprised that the National Park Service has become much more careful about issuing permits. After I submitted the normal permit request, the NPS sent me another more detailed form to assure them that I am aware of the difficulty of hiking from the North Rim to Bright Angel Campground in one day (14 miles).

The NPS email said, "Experience has shown that trips such as the one you requested all too often result in off-itinerary camping, injury and occasionally even death. Please don't accept this itinerary merely because it is available. Make sure it is what you really want and well within the capability of all group members... Note. Your proposed hike from the North Rim to Bright Angel Campground is considered to be a very strenuous hike and is not recommended by our office. That day of your trip would involve hiking 14 miles in one day with 6,000 feet of elevation change. We rate this as excessive and encourage you to revisit your plan..."

I applaud them for being careful. I have met many people in the Grand Canyon who had no idea how difficult it is. It is good that the NPS is warning people.

[colorado_rob]

I ... "Your proposed hike from the North Rim to Bright Angel Campground is considered to be a very strenuous hike and is not recommended by our office. That day of your trip would involve hiking 14 miles in one day with 6,000 feet of elevation change. We rate this as excessive and encourage you to revisit your plan..."

I applaud them for being careful. I have met many people in the Grand Canyon who had no idea how difficult it is. It is good that the NPS is warning people. A perfect example of this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pussification

Fourteen miles, almost all gradual downhill on a near-perfect trail, takes about 6 hours at a very modest pace, with water available most of the way. Merely 20 years ago, such a hike would probably be called by most "meh" in terms of difficulty. Now it's strongly discouraged. Very sad. Those who know me probably consider me to be very optimistic and upbeat about our society and our country, but when I see posts like this, I just want to cry.

[Dogwood]

Just in case anyone is curious we hiked down the South Kaibab past Ooh Aah point to Cedar Ridge and back up for our day hike. It was hot and we easily drank 1 liter each of water. We couldn't get as early of a start as I wanted so Skeleton Point and back was a no-go. I thought something a park ranger said to me was interesting after I resisted his gentle suggestion that we do the Bright Angel trail instead. He said "Bright Angel is the interstate and South Kaibab is like a back country road". Exactly why I was happy with our decision...

Glad you are happy with your decision. Consider you went 3 miles one way! It's H _ O _ T in June. All the hotter as you descend to the CR and then climb back out usually during daylight ending back at the S Rim in darkness. LOL. As Fiddlehead said 'bring a flashlight."


...I was surprised that the National Park Service has become much more careful about issuing permits. After I submitted the normal permit request, the NPS sent me another more detailed form to assure them that I am aware of the difficulty of hiking from the North Rim to Bright Angel Campground in one day (14 miles).

The NPS email said, "Experience has shown that trips such as the one you requested all too often result in off-itinerary camping, injury and occasionally even death. Please don't accept this itinerary merely because it is available. Make sure it is what you really want and well within the capability of all group members... Note. Your proposed hike from the North Rim to Bright Angel Campground is considered to be a very strenuous hike and is not recommended by our office. That day of your trip would involve hiking 14 miles in one day with 6,000 feet of elevation change. We rate this as excessive and encourage you to revisit your plan..."

I applaud them for being careful. I have met many people in the Grand Canyon who had no idea how difficult it is. It is good that the NPS is warning people.

It's because EVERY YR people have to be rescued and/or DIE on the well used Corridor trails as hikers. The NPS was dragging a heart attack induced death in a body bag one tine I was there. NPS gets tired of dragging bodies up to the rim! Height of the HOT season is when many of the rescues and deaths occur


A perfect example of this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pussification

Fourteen miles, almost all gradual downhill on a near-perfect trail, takes about 6 hours at a very modest pace, with water available most of the way. Merely 20 years ago, such a hike would probably be called by most "meh" in terms of difficulty. Now it's strongly discouraged. Very sad. Those who know me probably consider me to be very optimistic and upbeat about our society and our country, but when I see posts like this, I just want to cry.


CR, not everyone is in your situation. You seem like you get around, live at a high elev, regularly attain summits, etc. It pays to understand the audience you're addressing. :D

[Shutterbug]

A perfect example of this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pussification

Fourteen miles, almost all gradual downhill on a near-perfect trail, takes about 6 hours at a very modest pace, with water available most of the way. Merely 20 years ago, such a hike would probably be called by most "meh" in terms of difficulty. Now it's strongly discouraged. Very sad. Those who know me probably consider me to be very optimistic and upbeat about our society and our country, but when I see posts like this, I just want to cry.

Perhaps you won't feel such a desire to cry when you see it from the perspective of the Rangers. Every day, they are called on to assist people who have overestimated their capabilities. I agree with you that the 14 mile hike isn't excessive for a seasoned hiker, but the Rangers have no way of knowing if a person who sends in an application is seasoned or not.

Each time I hike in the Grand Canyon, I observe people who seem very unprepared for that type of hike. They tend to fall into two categories: 1)The Spur of the Moment folks -- They came to visit the Grand Canyon and decided to see what it was like to hike to the bottom -- totally unprepared. 2)The "Over prepared" -- I often see people carrying backpacks weighing 80 or more lbs. I once saw a guy with a cast iron skillet hanging off his pack. It is not unusual at all to see people camping at the Bright Angel Campground with car camping type tents big enough for a whole family.

It does not offend or discourage me to see the Rangers asking questions to determine if a person realizes what they are doing. A lot of people don't.

[colorado_rob]

..
CR, not everyone is in your situation. You seem like you get around, live at a high elev, regularly attain summits, etc. It pays to understand the audience you're addressing. :DI'm not in any way referring to my skills and fitness. Of course such a hike is trivial for me and my circles, and most of us on here for that matter.

I teach hiking, climbing and mountaineering classes. I teach complete a class with hiking rookies, sometimes twice a year. I'm not sure in 12 years of such teaching I've ever met a single person who would have any problem whatsoever with a hike from the north rim to the river, and a leisurely hike back up with a stop to camp at, say, cottonwood or Indian gardens (if going to the SR).

I stand by my statement: What the ranger said to SB is a prime example of the complete wimpification of many of us in the good old USA. I've also hike and travelled a whole lot abroad; I bet you a euro that no ranger in Europe, for example, would make such a discouraging statement. Nor anywhere else I can think of.

[Sheriff Cougar]

Shutterbug, thanks for sharing the photos. Love them.

[Shutterbug]

Shutterbug, thanks for sharing the photos. Love them.
Thanks, Sheriff, as you saw from the pictures, we have started taking our grandchildren along for Grand Canyon hikes when they are 13. For years, I had to wait on them to catch up. Now, they are waiting on me.

[tdoczi]

I stand by my statement: What the ranger said to SB is a prime example of the complete wimpification of many of us in the good old USA. I've also hike and travelled a whole lot abroad; I bet you a euro that no ranger in Europe, for example, would make such a discouraging statement. Nor anywhere else I can think of.


those kinds of warnings seem to be specific to grand canyon. i dont think ive encountered them at other NPs. no one is going around making blanket statements at yosemite that the hike to half dome and back is too strenuous to do in a day (its longer, and harder) and in glacier there are a couple somewhat popular day hikes of over 20 miles that are actively encouraged.

i think at grand canyon you have a combination of things going on that inspires the overly cautious warnings- going downhill first, the climate, the likelihood that woefully unprepared people who never hike will get it into their heads to try something beyond them, etc.

sure, that hike from north rim to bright angel is something any hiker with decent experience who knows he can cover that amount of ground in a day can do and it isnt the slightest bit dangerous. but its also something someone who has never walked more than 3 miles at once might get it into their heads that they can do, then run out of gas at the 8 mile mark, which is unlikely to end in anything tragic, but is a headache to deal with if it happens in large numbers.

[Hosh]

I also think GC is unique. We ran into a rim to rim to rim trail runner who had boinked and spent the night sleeping on a rock. He had no shelter, no food and was nearly passed out at the 3 mile rest house. I gave him a cliff bar and some electrolyte mix. He had done the hike/run several times before, but for whatever reason chunked this time.

The GC rangers have a very tough job, the heat, inverse elevation make for a tough environment. Taking extra precautions in terms of warning people about the potential hazards and pitfalls is appropriate.

[Odd Man Out]

I have not backpacked the GC but it's high on my wish list. Have been to the rims with the family a couple of times. On our last trip we were at the North Rim visitors center about 10 AM. There were a couple of young men talking to the ranger at the info desk. The were diasapointed an a bit upset to be told by the ranger that their plan to hike down to go swimming in the river and be back at the lodge in time for dinner was not going to work. They left disgruntled and I stepped up to ask my question. But first I gestured to the door and asked "were they serious?". The ranger rolled his eyes and with an exasperated look said something about it happening all the time.

[Leo L.]

We've seen about the same warnings entering Death Valley. Couldn't get a campground reservation because our car had no hookup for overnight aircondition.
Guess too many evil things are happening to stupid tourists.

When we hiked the Grand Canyon in the mid-80ies (the year, not the temp) it wasn't too bad, just a few warning words and lots of explicit pictures.

[Shutterbug]

... The ranger rolled his eyes and with an exasperated look said something about it happening all the time.

Last March, we met a man with an 8 year old son who decided to hike down to the river an back in a day. They made it to the river and were started back up, but it was already 3:30 p.m. He had no food and no light. I asked about his plans, because it was obvious that he wasn't going to make it back to the rim before dark. He said that he had a flashlight in his car on the south rim, but didn't bring it because he planned to be back before dark. The 8 year old was already exhausted and they hadn't even made it back to the Devil's Corkscrew. That kind of thing happens every day in the Grand Canyon.

I gave him my flashlight and some food and wished him well. I didn't see a rescue helicopter, so I guess they made it out.

[tdoczi]

my fav is still the woman i met about 3 miles down from the rim on the north kaibab, carrying NO gear (didnt have a pack, i didnt even see a water bottle) who asked me if i knew how much farther it was to the river. at least it was early in the morning.

something about the grand canyon just makes people try and do idiotic things.