View Full Version : Into the Wild by Krakauer
Mountain Dog
01-16-2016, 18:02
Interesting take on a boy/man that wanted to olive off the grid and eventually died in Alaska. Seen by some as romantic because he followed his dream and lived live his way. Seen as a nut by others. Regardless, it is interesting and a fast read.
4eyedbuzzard
01-16-2016, 21:11
Pretty old story. Those who actually succeed at doing things like McCandless attempted are almost always better educated as to what they are getting into, have a plan other than just wandering off, and are prepared. Going off on a "romantic" adventure can be a wonderful calling. But going off "half-cocked" will often get you killed. In the end, his death was tragic, but predictable.
In the end, his death was tragic, but predictable.
Yours and mine too. Death is very much predictable. Where there's life, death follows.
Cotton Terry
01-16-2016, 21:58
Pretty old story. Those who actually succeed at doing things like McCandless attempted are almost always better educated as to what they are getting into, have a plan other than just wandering off, and are prepared. Going off on a "romantic" adventure can be a wonderful calling. But going off "half-cocked" will often get you killed. In the end, his death was tragic, but predictable.
Richard Proenneke is nice success story. He lived in the wilderness for thirty-some years. I saw his documentary on PBS.
4eyedbuzzard
01-16-2016, 22:09
Richard Proenneke is nice success story. He lived in the wilderness for thirty-some years. I saw his documentary on PBS.Exactly...
Into Thin Air. Also a good read.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
rocketsocks
01-17-2016, 00:15
Richard Proenneke is nice success story. He lived in the wilderness for thirty-some years. I saw his documentary on PBS.
I never get tired of watching his story.
4eyedbuzzard
01-17-2016, 00:32
I never get tired of watching his story.The hand hewn door hinges, and the door latch and lock on the cabin door are just over the top. As are the perfectly straight shelves cut with a hand rip saw. And the repurposed metal cans made into flashing and pots - and that darn wooden spoon. :)
You'd like any of Calvin Rutstrum's books.
the into the wild kid had a death/ attention wish
Cotton Terry
01-17-2016, 12:26
The hand hewn door hinges, and the door latch and lock on the cabin door are just over the top. As are the perfectly straight shelves cut with a hand rip saw. And the repurposed metal cans made into flashing and pots - and that darn wooden spoon. :)
http://www.nps.gov/lacl/learn/historyculture/proennekes-cabin.htm
the into the wild kid had a death/ attention wish
An attention wish?! Wow. If that's what you obtained from the book, you might want to reread it. Or work on your reading skills.
I ask: Why would he have left society, his family, and all others he met during his travels if he craved attention? How, exactly, does one gain attention by being alone in a bus in Alaska, where no one knows where you are? (Recall: this was the pre-Internet age...he had no blog or Twitter account or Wastebook page.)
A death wish, maybe...but I'm guessing more of a life wish.
4eyedbuzzard
01-17-2016, 13:28
I don't think he had a death wish, nor an attention wish. He got in over his head skills wise and then couldn't bail out due to the nature of the place. Just the over-enthusiastic wide-eyed type that wasn't patient or grounded enough to put in the homework and preparation needed to gain the experience to succeed at what he tried.
Mr. Supertramp read a lot of Thoreau....
"As I was leaving the Irishman's roof after the rain, bending my steps again to the pond, my haste to catch pickerel, wading in retired meadows, in sloughs and bog-holes, in forlorn and savage places, appeared for an instant trivial to me who had been sent to school and college;
but as I ran down the hill toward the reddening west, with the rainbow over my shoulder, and some faint tinkling sounds borne to my ear through the cleansed air, from I know not what quarter, my Good Genius seemed to say --
Go fish and hunt far and wide day by day -- farther and wider -- and rest thee by many brooks and hearth-sides without misgiving.
Remember thy Creator in the days of thy youth. Rise free from care before the dawn, and seek adventures.
Let the noon find thee by other lakes, and the night overtake thee everywhere at home.
There are no larger fields than these, no worthier games than may here be played.
Grow wild according to thy nature, like these sedges and brakes, which will never become English hay.
Let the thunder rumble; what if it threaten ruin to farmers' crops?
That is not its errand to thee.
Take shelter under the cloud, while they flee to carts and sheds. Let not to get a living be thy trade, but thy sport.
Enjoy the land, but own it not.
Through want of enterprise and faith men are where they are, buying and selling, and spending their lives like serfs."
Henry Thoreau. from Walden, Baker Farm
rocketsocks
01-17-2016, 20:25
Thoreau was a poser.
How so????
4eyedbuzzard
01-18-2016, 02:53
Thoreau was a poser.
How so????
Yes, how so?
One of the greatest concepts that Thoreau expounds on in Walden is the value of time and its relationship to material possessions - that we pay for material possessions not directly in money, but rather in the precious time (and labor) we ultimately exchange for those items. And we pay again (in time and labor) in securing, maintaining, and simply possessing them. It's a concept that was often repeated to my children as they grew up.
He was certainly not motivated in the sense of traditional work or business success even though born in a reasonably affluent family. Nor did he conform to the norms of polite society in many ways. He was definitely a dreamer. But a poser? It wasn't like he presented his days at Walden as a death defying expedition to the wilderness. He even writes of his trips to town, visitors, the train, etc. Just a dreamer's escape to a small plot where he eked out a subsistence life for a while and contemplated the trappings of what was then modern, civilized life.
Casey & Gina
01-19-2016, 10:33
Into the Wild is perhaps the reason I am here on WhiteBlaze today. I saw the movie first, and identified with it as I had previously spent a year living outside voluntarily as I was sick of a mainstream life. It was a challenging time in many ways and I too came close to death's door, but it was also the best time of my life, and what keeps me drawn to the outdoors (and moreover, long distance hiking) through today. I'm much wiser now from it, less arrogant and more prepared, more humble and eager to learn more from others and experience.
I thought it was a great story and highly recommend it.
swisscross
01-19-2016, 11:13
I grew tired of the book about half way through it.
Seemed the author was repeating himself for the sake of adding pages.
Gave it to my BIL.
Sad story for sure.
The Richard Proenneke PBS documentary is one of my favorites.
I have always longed to live like he did.
I too was amazed with the hinges, lock and spoon.
He was so good with a saw and knife.
colorado_rob
01-19-2016, 11:45
Interesting book and movie, tragic and sad but thought provoking. I, too, am of the mind set of the "attention need" thing being prevalent. Just my take.
I haven't read a book by Krakauer that I haven't really liked, try "Eiger Dreams" sometime Venchka, if you liked "Into thin Air".
One thing is for sure (IMHO): The Eddie Vedder soundtrack from Into the Wild is fantastic.
4eyedbuzzard
01-19-2016, 13:32
The Richard Proenneke PBS documentary is one of my favorites.
I have always longed to live like he did.
I too was amazed with the hinges, lock and spoon.
He was so good with a saw and knife.
I often think (daydream) about doing something like he did. But I'm not really sure I would enjoy quite THAT much isolation. And then I think maybe a bit closer to civilization, perhaps in a more temperate climate region, with easier to work building materials, and an internet connection . . . [sigh] I probably don't have the heart for it.
swisscross
01-19-2016, 14:14
I often think (daydream) about doing something like he did. But I'm not really sure I would enjoy quite THAT much isolation. And then I think maybe a bit closer to civilization, perhaps in a more temperate climate region, with easier to work building materials, and an internet connection . . . [sigh] I probably don't have the heart for it.
I think I was most impressed with the fact he made his own fireplace.
Those things can be tricky to get the correct draft.
QHShowoman
01-19-2016, 15:33
I don't think he had a death wish, nor an attention wish. He got in over his head skills wise and then couldn't bail out due to the nature of the place. Just the over-enthusiastic wide-eyed type that wasn't patient or grounded enough to put in the homework and preparation needed to gain the experience to succeed at what he tried.
Carine McCandless, Chris' sister, recently published an expose about their family life and why Chris was driven to sever ties with everyone. Perhaps it all could just be a moneymaking ruse, but it was an interesting read:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Wild-Truth-Carine-McCandless/dp/0062325140
There's also a short documentary on PBS about it: http://www.pbs.org/program/return-to-the-wild/
cmoulder
01-19-2016, 15:56
That PBS documentary delving into the bizarre family situation with McCandless explains a lot more than did Krakauer's book because it offers a plausible rationale for the Why, which I suppose Krakauer didn't know at the time.
What is weird about Krakauer is his protracted obsession with proving that poisonous plants eaten by McCandless were the proximate cause of his death when — one way or the other — it was simple starvation, sooner or later.
What is weird about Krakauer is his protracted obsession with proving that poisonous plants eaten by McCandless were the proximate cause of his death when — one way or the other — it was simple starvation, sooner or later.
that is true, but i think it's because Krakauer lost some of his credibility with his other book "into thin air"......
a few people on everest that year didnt necessarily agree with his version of what happened and called him out on it.....
my guess (and just a guess), is that he wanted to establish that he was "right" about what happened to mccandless..........or something like that.....or at least, gain some credibility back with better research.....
4eyedbuzzard
01-19-2016, 16:30
Still, after everything is said and done regarding why he went off on his own, you're left with a very intelligent, educated young man who made a conscious decision to go off into the wilderness unprepared to survive. He was offered advice, extra supplies/gear, etc., by locals before he walked in. He pretty much refused to heed/respect advice from others who had his best interests in mind. And after 100 days or so he came to his senses and realized that he had failed and tried to walk out. But the river he had crossed was now too deep and strong. He didn't even have the map that would have showed a hand tram across the river less than a mile away, a map that would have saved his life. Arrogant? Foolhardy? Reckless? Naive? Romantic dreamer? A bit of all?
colorado_rob
01-19-2016, 16:59
... Arrogant? Foolhardy? Reckless? Naive? Romantic dreamer? A bit of all?In other words, an early 20's year old guy? I was precisely that way. How about you? From one 59 year old to another....
I think Rob and 4Eyed are both correct. As Rob was alluding to, many of us were more lucky than good.
I know I did my share of stupid things, that were harmful, when I was in my early 20s.
Granted, Chris' level of fool hardiness was far higher and/or he was less lucky. Which is what I think 4Eyed was getting to...
(In my 40s, my stupid things are more likely to make me sleep on the couch than to get killed. But that's another thread... :) )
I wrote this almost ten years ago here on WB when the movie first came out..think it still applies...it was before the movie was seen.
What kid hasn't tried to grab the Big One and nearly died trying?
What makes me worried about the movie is that it makes him look to be some action-adventure star.
McCandless' story struck a chord with many people because it did reflect a certain segment of society: Young people who are a bit idealistic and romantic who yearn for the big adventure. Like many young people, he was ill prepared and in over his head. Unlike many people who did stupid things in their early 20s (God knows I did!), his luck came up badly. "There but for the grace of God go I..."
If things were just a bit different, he probably would have survived. He would probably be one of these people you meet who talk about the crazy stuff he did in his early 20s. At the end of the book, McCandless displayed signs that he was ready to move on. Ready to enter a different stage of life.
INTO THE WILD is a good book because it does explore this pull many people have felt at some point in their life (and still feel). That is why many people related to it.
Having said that, Chris did some stupid things. No map. Not the right gear. Dying in an area that would not be considered wilderness by western US standards...much less Alaskan standards. As I said, things could have turned out much differently for him and his family.
My fear of the movie is that it will make him something he is not. And, in my opinion, the power of the book will be lost. A flawed, bright and idealistic guy he was perhaps more romantic than prepared. (like many of us at some point in our lives). An eco-adventure-warrior-poet (as the trailer seemed to show), he was not.
4eyedbuzzard
01-19-2016, 18:52
In other words, an early 20's year old guy? I was precisely that way. How about you? From one 59 year old to another....
I think Rob and 4Eyed are both correct. As Rob was alluding to, many of us were more lucky than good.
I know I did my share of stupid things, that were harmful, when I was in my early 20s.
Granted, Chris' level of fool hardiness was far higher and/or he was less lucky. Which is what I think 4Eyed was getting to...
(In my 40s, my stupid things are more likely to make me sleep on the couch than to get killed. But that's another thread... :) )
Re: Rob's reply - No, honestly, I was not that way - not in the sense nor degree that Chris was. Going off into the woods of Alaska armed with a .22 and a bag of rice and no map? Nope. Not a chance. Sure, we all possess(ed) the referenced traits in varying degrees, and I certainly took more risks in my youth, but they were definitely more measured. I was more grounded and conservative in that sense probably due to having been hiking and hunting since age 12 or so. By 18, I had hiked a lot in the Whites, GSMNP, and other parts of the eastern mountains in all 4 seasons for many years, planned and led BSA hikes, did a little climbing - opportunities for which I am eternally grateful to others and their efforts in passing on their wisdom to me. And I was lucky as well several times to be sure. By Chris's age, 24, I was working full-time and traveling a lot as a service/field engineer, which proved to be a different type of survival adventure at times. And like Mags notes, my more recent over-estimation of my abilities tend to result in long soaks in a hot tub and copious amounts of Ibuprofen to remedy.
TexasBob
01-19-2016, 19:11
.........................What is weird about Krakauer is his protracted obsession with proving that poisonous plants eaten by McCandless were the proximate cause of his death when — one way or the other — it was simple starvation, sooner or later.
IMHO the author identified with his subject and wanted to believe that the young man's death was due to more than just basic stupidity. I know that sounds harsh but what McCandless did was extremely foolish and dumb. It is very sad that he paid for his recklessness with his life and I feel sorry for him and his family.
I was gobsmacked when I got near the end of the book and learned how easily the rescue team crossed the river.
It's true. "You can't fix stupid."
Wayne
And like Mags notes, my more recent over-estimation of my abilities tend to result in long soaks in a hot tub and copious amounts of Ibuprofen to remedy.
First, my stupid stuff involved beer and "HERE! WATCH THIS!" ... Not proud of it..but how many early 20s males DON'T do something like that at least once or twice. Arguably just as dangerous, if more prosaic. You may not have been like that..highly unusual. Heck, just look at the climbing accidents in the neck wood where Rob and I live. Not ALWAYS, but often, young males in their 20s.
Now, what I was alluding to was the one-of-many stupid things I say to my wife. I often get hot tongue and cold shoulder! :)
cmoulder
01-19-2016, 20:51
>>>Re: Rob's reply - No, honestly, I was not that way - not in the sense nor degree that Chris was. Going off into the woods of Alaska armed with a .22 and a bag of rice and no map? Nope. Not a chance. Sure, we all possess(ed) the referenced traits in varying degrees, and I certainly took more risks in my youth, but they were definitely more measured. I was more grounded and conservative in that sense
Same here... I guess I missed that phase. I had my chance in the Adirondacks when I was 28 and realized very quickly I was going to kill myself if I persisted. Decided to "regroup" and think about it some more... there was no internet then so I went back to Colin Fletcher's book and re-read those chapters on winter backpacking. Best thing I had at the time.
I loved the book and the movie. I only wish I had the "go nads" to shed everything and live with only what I can carry on my back. Did he fly a little to close to the sun so to speak? Did he choke on that bone he was sucking he marrow out of?
Perhaps, but I can't help but love his wide eyed romanticism.
Isn't that what most backpackers, thru hikers think at times when out on the trails?
"What if I just kept going, do I really need that job, car, bills, wife, husband, etc...Is the beauty of this amazing planet and adventure enough to sustain me for good?
I must think that on every hike I do; but alas, I always come back to that society I love to hate. (And have a little greater appreciation for the basic comforts)
I also loved that Eddie Vedder did the soundtrack! I applaud Sean Penn for a great choice.
“A venturesome minority will always be eager to set off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for god sake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American.”
― Edward Abbey
cmoulder
01-19-2016, 21:14
>>>>Perhaps, but I can't help but love his wide eyed romanticism.
One of the last pages of his journal... not very romantic.
33302
that is true, but i think it's because Krakauer lost some of his credibility with his other book "into thin air"......
a few people on everest that year didnt necessarily agree with his version of what happened and called him out on it.....
my guess (and just a guess), is that he wanted to establish that he was "right" about what happened to mccandless..........or something like that.....or at least, gain some credibility back with better research.....
Into the Wild was published well before Into Thin Air.
QHShowoman
01-20-2016, 09:04
Into the Wild was published well before Into Thin Air.
Right, but Krakauer's updated theory/research into McCandless' true cause of death occurred well after the "Into Thin Air" debacle.
colorado_rob
01-20-2016, 09:15
Krakauer does, indeed, seem to invoke some controversy after his books come out. Not sure if its because he is so blunt, or because he frequently has bad info. I found it interesting that the latest "Everest" movie kinda disses Krakauer's role/part in the 1996 tragedy.
In any case, his books are indeed interesting. Check out some of his others, like "Under the Banner of Heaven" (about Mormons) or "Three Cups of Deceit" (about that Pakistan charity fraud).
TexasBob
01-20-2016, 09:48
Krakauer does, indeed, seem to invoke some controversy after his books come out. Not sure if its because he is so blunt, or because he frequently has bad info............
NOVA the science show on PBS had an episode where a group of climbers when to Antarctica to climb Mt. Vinson. In the group was Krakauer and Conrad Anker who is a renowned mountaineer and was the team leader. Krakauer came off as a person who had a hard time seeing other people's point of view once he had made his mind up about something. A hard head you might say.
4eyedbuzzard
01-20-2016, 10:48
Krakauer does, indeed, seem to invoke some controversy after his books come out. Not sure if its because he is so blunt, or because he frequently has bad info. I found it interesting that the latest "Everest" movie kinda disses Krakauer's role/part in the 1996 tragedy.
In any case, his books are indeed interesting. Check out some of his others, like "Under the Banner of Heaven" (about Mormons) or "Three Cups of Deceit" (about that Pakistan charity fraud).
NOVA the science show on PBS had an episode where a group of climbers when to Antarctica to climb Mt. Vinson. In the group was Krakauer and Conrad Anker who is a renowned mountaineer and was the team leader. Krakauer came off as a person who had a hard time seeing other people's point of view once he had made his mind up about something. A hard head you might say.I've read Into Thin Air and Anatoli Boukreev's "reply", The Climb, and numerous articles on the 1996 Everest disaster. I haven't seen the recent movie yet, which apparently Krakauer isn't happy with. But I always keep in mind that Krakauer is a professional writer first, amateur mountaineer second.
Alone in the Fortress of the Bears, by Buck Nelson, has some interesting thoughts on the Chris McCandless story. Buck compares what he's been eating to survive for a couple of months versus what Chris noted in his journal that he'd been able to catch and eat, and concludes that the coroner was right--starvation seems the likely cause of death. (Entry for August 25th.) In a 3-week period Chris ate 35 squirrels and a few other small animals. In 18 days Buck consumed an entire adult deer, countless crabs and salmon, and quarts a day of berries and wild greens, and still lost 15 pounds.
Casey & Gina
01-20-2016, 11:04
I loved the book and the movie. I only wish I had the "go nads" to shed everything and live with only what I can carry on my back. Did he fly a little to close to the sun so to speak? Did he choke on that bone he was sucking he marrow out of?
Perhaps, but I can't help but love his wide eyed romanticism.
Isn't that what most backpackers, thru hikers think at times when out on the trails?
"What if I just kept going, do I really need that job, car, bills, wife, husband, etc...Is the beauty of this amazing planet and adventure enough to sustain me for good?
I must think that on every hike I do; but alas, I always come back to that society I love to hate. (And have a little greater appreciation for the basic comforts)
I also loved that Eddie Vedder did the soundtrack! I applaud Sean Penn for a great choice.
“A venturesome minority will always be eager to set off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for god sake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American.”
― Edward Abbey
I agree wholeheartedly, great post - it is indeed hard to come home, but of course I always do as well. I certainly enjoy the thoughts of staying out forever when I go out! My enjoyment of the story comes from the fantasy of it. I thought it was a good story and identified with the free spirit and unrestrained (if sometimes foolhardy) choices. I am not sure why we are so inclined to fear death and call one who dies young stupid, as that great quote you posted said, it should be the respected right and privilege of everyone to do with their lives as they will. He may have died young but lived more than most before he did. Of the two extremes - those who live cautiously and don't do anything that they think might pose some danger, and those who throw caution into the wind and die early, I hope to fall somewhere in the middle, a bit more towards the latter than the former. ;)
"Under the Banner of Heaven" (about Mormons).
I found this book fascinating. Hard to comprehend American West history and culture without mentioning the LDS. Loved how the book really delved deep into the break-away branches of the LDS that practice pre-Utah statehood Mormonism.
Same here... I guess I missed that phase. I had my chance in the Adirondacks when I was 28 and realized very quickly I was going to kill myself if I persisted.
I can't speak for you, but I know I was very different at 28 vs say, 21.
TexasBob
01-20-2016, 16:16
.........................He may have died young but lived more than most before he did. ................
I respect your point of view but I wonder if you can truly say this young man lived more than most when he died in his early twenties and missing out on things like marriage, having children and watching them grow into adulthood, having a job you like and being there for your parents as they age as well as 50 or 60 more years of watching sunrises and sunsets and enjoying nature. I believe you can truly say that he had fun for a short while (except for the last weeks of his life as he slowly starved to death).
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by TNhiker http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2034194#post2034194)
that is true, but i think it's because Krakauer lost some of his credibility with his other book "into thin air"......
a few people on everest that year didnt necessarily agree with his version of what happened and called him out on it.....
my guess (and just a guess), is that he wanted to establish that he was "right" about what happened to mccandless..........or something like that.....or at least, gain some credibility back with better research.....
.
Into the Wild was published well before Into Thin Air.
yeah......i realize that.......
but he lost alot of credibility with Into Thin Air and when the "Into the Wild" controversy came up with the death and all that-----guessing he was trying to get his credibility back......
But I always keep in mind that Krakauer is a professional writer first, amateur mountaineer second.
and from my memory------that's what alot of the other players in the everest tragedy called him out for.............some of them didnt necessarily agree with his version of events on the mountain.......
Still, after everything is said and done regarding why he went off on his own, you're left with a very intelligent, educated young man who made a conscious decision to go off into the wilderness unprepared to survive. He was offered advice, extra supplies/gear, etc., by locals before he walked in. He pretty much refused to heed/respect advice from others who had his best interests in mind. And after 100 days or so he came to his senses and realized that he had failed and tried to walk out. But the river he had crossed was now too deep and strong. He didn't even have the map that would have showed a hand tram across the river less than a mile away, a map that would have saved his life. Arrogant? Foolhardy? Reckless? Naive? Romantic dreamer? A bit of all?
you put it in a milder context than my "death wish" comment on page 1
just like there is the category of crime that is "reckless homicide" (often drunk driving) - to me this was in a "reckless suicide" category
similar to after the drunk driver kills someone - this kid wished he was not as careless after it was too late
and from my memory------that's what alot of the other players in the everest tragedy called him out for.............some of them didnt necessarily agree with his version of events on the mountain.......
like a lot of people called out Bryson - the main job of a professional writer is to SELL product, not try to make everyone happy
by definition professional means you make money
T.S.Kobzol
01-20-2016, 17:57
I read 2 if krakauers books before everest. After i read his account of everest i bought zero books from krakauer. :) dude failed me. If you write books in the first person reality documentary style you better maintain respect... That will SELL your books and help you to continue being a professional writer. :)
T.S.Kobzol
01-20-2016, 17:59
... Not that it hurt him much haha but I voted with my wallet. :)
T.S.Kobzol
01-20-2016, 18:00
Same with Bryson. I voted him out after Walk In The Woods.
T.S.Kobzol
01-20-2016, 18:01
Didn't hurt him either :D
After studying Emerson and Thoreau in high school English, we watch "Into the Wild" and discuss how Chris McCandless applied their philosophies to his life. We also discuss how rationale his course of action was. It is always interesting to hear how much my students disagree with each other!
I've read very many books and articles about Himalaya things, watched slideshows and presentations of world-famous climbers, etc.
One could easily find out that all climbers are simply just "humans", and the more successful ones tend to be the more "ego" ones.
I have yet to meet one who publicly admits having done wrong, but found numerous who had put themself in a better light.
To the best of my knowledge, Krakauer in "Into Thin Air" does his very best to come as close to the truth as possible.
So having no personal knowledge about Supertramps life&death, I apprecciate Krakauers work in "Into The Wild" (and his other books, too) and believe, that he did good work to tell truth from false.
His guess about Supertramp having poisoned himself is a wild one, in his understandable intent to put him in a better position than the at this time common saying he was a complete idiot.
God only knows what had really happened, and nobody knows if he could have survived if he had avoided this plant that became poisonous in late summer.
4eyedbuzzard
01-21-2016, 09:44
I've read very many books and articles about Himalaya things, watched slideshows and presentations of world-famous climbers, etc.
One could easily find out that all climbers are simply just "humans", and the more successful ones tend to be the more "ego" ones.
I have yet to meet one who publicly admits having done wrong, but found numerous who had put themself in a better light...Done wrong willfully - or made mistakes? Because at least one, and in my mind one of the greatest, Ed Viesturs, often puts aside his ego and talks candidly about his mistakes and bad decisions. In both his book, No Shortcuts to the Top, and this article, Into Thin Error http://www.slate.com/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html I think Ed discusses several of his own bad decisions in a very objective way.
My two favorite Ed Viestur's quotes regarding mountaineering:
Getting to the top is optional. Getting down is mandatory.
...a mistake is a mistake even if you get away with it.
Trainguy
01-21-2016, 12:17
Back in 2010, late August, my son in law and I attempted to hike in to the bus. We overnighted at Earthsong Lodge. The next morning we packed up and headed off. It took us 7 hours to reach the Teklanika River. We attempted to cross it but the water was too deep and swift. It had been a fairly warm day so the water was running a bit higher than we hoped. Decided to camp out beside the river overnight and try again the next morning when we hoped the river might be a bit down after cooler temperatures. It rained overnight and the river was higher. We did try again before deciding it wasn't safe. We then walked back to the lodge which took us 8 hours.
The Stampede Trail is nothing but a rutted ATV trail. In a few places small streams have taken over. The ruts from the ATV's are filled with water and every couple hundred feet or so the trail would form a pool and we would have to wade through water....sometimes up to you knees. If it wasn't wet, it was muddy or rocky. The Savage River posed no problem at all. We actually ate lunch on a small sandbar in the middle of it.
The only large animal we saw was a moose who gave us a curious glance then headed across the Tek. We scouted up and down the river for a ways and did see the remnants of the old cable crossing. Not much activity otherwise. We had fun and that was the whole idea.
...Into Thin Error http://www.slate.com/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html ...
Very good reading, thanks!
TexasBob
01-21-2016, 20:50
Done wrong willfully - or made mistakes? Because at least one, and in my mind one of the greatest, Ed Viesturs, often puts aside his ego and talks candidly about his mistakes and bad decisions. In both his book, No Shortcuts to the Top, and this article, Into Thin Error http://www.slate.com/blogs/thewrongstuff/2010/06/14/into_thin_error_mountaineer_ed_viesturs_on_making_ mistakes.html
Very good reading, thanks!
The author hit the nail on head with:
I also wanted to test a hypothesis that I call "the paradox of error": If your goal is to avoid making mistakes, then you must constantly assume that you are about to make one. That's why fields like aviation and medicine have, at their best, a productive obsession with error.
That is my mindset developed in my profession and I guess that is why what McCandless did seems so foolish to me. It also helps me understand why other people without that mindset might be inclined to see what he did differently.
4eyedbuzzard
01-21-2016, 22:12
That is my mindset developed in my profession and I guess that is why what McCandless did seems so foolish to me. It also helps me understand why other people without that mindset might be inclined to see what he did differently.If you work or have an avocation where almost any decision, no matter how small, can potentially lead to severe and even fatal consequences, I think by nature you have to be very risk-adverse to be successful. Where the discussion seems to break down sometimes is that those who are not experienced in fields (either professionally or as an avocation) that absolutely REQUIRE such discipline see this mindset as being adverse to any and all risk. Yet nothing can be further from the truth. The best example is perhaps space exploration, where the overall risk is perhaps as high as any human endeavor, with virtually all those involved having risk adverse mindsets, yet at the same time participating in something with an incredibly high level of inherent risk.
Traveler
01-23-2016, 18:12
If you work or have an avocation where almost any decision, no matter how small, can potentially lead to severe and even fatal consequences, I think by nature you have to be very risk-adverse to be successful. Where the discussion seems to break down sometimes is that those who are not experienced in fields (either professionally or as an avocation) that absolutely REQUIRE such discipline see this mindset as being adverse to any and all risk. Yet nothing can be further from the truth. The best example is perhaps space exploration, where the overall risk is perhaps as high as any human endeavor, with virtually all those involved having risk adverse mindsets, yet at the same time participating in something with an incredibly high level of inherent risk.
I tend to agree with this. Like aviation and sailing, the air, sea, and wilderness are not necessarily dangerous in and of themselves, they are simply intolerant and unforgiving of mistakes and carelessness. Both sins together most certainly will be your undoing in any of these pursuits, which being as woefully unprepared as he was should not come as a surprise his story ended as it did.
somers515
06-19-2020, 07:37
The "Into the Wild" bus was removed . . .
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alaska-bus/into-the-wild-bus-removed-from-alaska-trail-for-safety-concerns-idUSKBN23Q09S
Alligator
06-19-2020, 09:11
Pretty awesome seeing that bus flying!
Pretty awesome seeing that bus flying!
there were a few times after some grateful dead shows that i saw busses flying..........
quote:
By Associated PressPublished YesterdayANCHORAGE, Alaska —
An abandoned bus in the Alaska wilderness where a young man documented his demise over 114 days in 1992 has been removed by officials, frustrated that the bus has become a lure for dangerous, sometimes deadly pilgrimages into treacherous backcountry.
An Alaska National Guard Chinook helicopter flew the bus out of the woods just north of Denali National Park and Preserve on Thursday.Christopher McCandless hiked to the bus located about 250 miles (402 kilometers) north of Anchorage nearly three decades ago, and the 24-year-old Virginian died from starvation when he couldn't hike back out because of the swollen Teklanika River.
He kept a journal of his plight, discovered when his body was found. McCandless' story was first documented in Jon Krakauer's 1996 book "Into the Wild," followed by Sean Penn's movie of the same name in 2007.Over the years, the bus became a magnet for those wishing to retrace McCandless' steps to the bus to pay homage. But the Teklanika River that prevented McCandless from hiking out also has caused problems for people who came later on pilgrimages.
Two women, one from Switzerland in 2010 and one from Belarus in 2019, drowned on such pilgrimages.State officials said there have been 15 other search-and-rescue operations since 2009, including one involving five Italian tourists last winter, one with severe frostbite."We encourage people to enjoy Alaska's wild areas safely, and we understand the hold this bus has had on the popular imagination,"
Department of Natural Resources Commissioner Corri A. Feige said in a statement. "However, this is an abandoned and deteriorating vehicle that was requiring dangerous and costly rescue efforts, but more importantly, was costing some visitors their lives."In Alaska, the Department of Natural Resources is responsible for protecting and preserving state land."I was stunned when Commissioner Feige informed me," Carine McCandless, Christopher's sister, said in an email to The Associated Press. "Though I am saddened by the news, the decision was made with good intentions, and was certainly theirs to make. That bus didn't belong to Chris and it doesn't belong to his family."
there were a few times after some grateful dead shows that i saw busses flying..........
Yeah I was having flash backs watching the bus flying, reminds of some old pink floyd shows...........