Would you use this to secure your gear?

[reefcroaker]

Full disclosure - I'm not much of a hiker, I'm a sailor. But I made the Cinch-N-Clinch to help me secure my gear in rough weather, while diving my hull and while climbing the mast. I would LOVE to get opinions from hikers and backpackers on whether this is the type of thing you'd consider using to secure your gear!

bit.ly/cinchNclinch

[TNhiker]

careful....

since this is your first post-----most people will interpret it as spam.........

[TNhiker]

especially since link directs to a fund raising page......

[scrabbler]

I love SPAM cooked over an open fire.

[brotheral]

Spam ! Spam ! :-?

[jimmyjam]

spam and eggs!!!

[reefcroaker]

Well thank you all *so* much for the helpful comments. Yes, I do have a kickstarter for this project. I created it because people kept asking me to make these for them. The point of crowdfunding is to see if an idea appeals to a target population. My target audience is people who are regularly engaged in outdoor activities. Seems like a trail forum would be full of such people!

I want feedback and opinions, but if all you have is kneejerk reactions, I guess you're not open minded enough to even consider a new design let alone provide a reasoned opinion.

If anyone does actually want to take the time to let me know whether my invention seems like something they'd actually use and why or why not I really do welcome the input!

[reefcroaker]

I was open about the fact that I am NOT someone who is likely to frequent this forum, but I'm looking for the feedback of those who are. Thanks for the warning.

[skater]

Hmmm... would I use it if I had one? Yeah, probably so, but in a limited fashion. I don't want to hang a lot of items outside my pack, and most of what I would hang would just clip on a carabiner easily anyway. Still, it's a clever little gadget I wouldn't mind having.

[reefcroaker]

Thanks for the input skater!

[damskipi]

Well thank you all *so* much for the helpful comments. Yes, I do have a kickstarter for this project. I created it because people kept asking me to make these for them. The point of crowdfunding is to see if an idea appeals to a target population. My target audience is people who are regularly engaged in outdoor activities. Seems like a trail forum would be full of such people!

I want feedback and opinions, but if all you have is kneejerk reactions, I guess you're not open minded enough to even consider a new design let alone provide a reasoned opinion.

If anyone does actually want to take the time to let me know whether my invention seems like something they'd actually use and why or why not I really do welcome the input!


I'll bite.

I looked up the Cinch N Clinch when you first posted, before anybody had responded. I say that to tell you that my thoughts were formed before the "SPAM" posts, so they aren't affecting my opinion.

Right off the bat, my feedback is that I don't click on links from unknown users so I used Google to find your Kickstarter page. I work with a lot of cyber experts and that is their rule #1 - no blind clicks!

Regarding the product, no I would not use it. In general hikers who know what they are doing aim to have their gear contained within a pocket, not hanging off the side of the pack. Having things hanging loose affects balance and seems like a good way to lose them. The video you have with hikers carrying packs with multiple objects hanging outside...that's not really recommended here.

I also want to avoid extra weight. So for instance one of the example uses was hanging a water bottle from a carabiner on my pack. I have a NiteIze product that does the same thing but weighs 8 grams counting a carabiner. I don't know how much your product weighs, but I'm guessing the answer is "more than 8 grams." Heck, your carabiner alone must weigh more than that.

If you are looking for people who would use this, I'd first look at your friends who have been asking about it. What hobbies are they into? What forums do they use? You might also want to market this to preppers. I'm not joking. They don't seem to care about weight at all, and they are very concerned with carrying as much as they can. They might LOVE this product.

[MuddyWaters]

No.
It appears to be a piece of cord with two slipping overhand knots covered by heat shrink

Do you really think people cant figure out how to make one of these for 0.50 if they want it?

If it has a future, its as useless doo-dads that well meaning spouses or friend purchase for others

Of course, i thought the same about ugly plastic sandals...

What did PT Barnum say?

He said a lot of things, this was one:

“No man has a right to expect to succeed in life unless he understands his business, and nobody can understand his business thoroughly unless he learns it by personal application and experience.”

[Kaptainkriz]

? It's just a pair of knots under shrink wrap....you could have at least used a pair of splices onto itself.

[SWODaddy]

If you want honest feedback - it doesn't look like something I would use. But if it was something I'd use, it looks like it would just take some 550 cord, two slip knots, and some heat shrink tubing. That said, I agree with those above; your post was a solicitation.

[rocketsocks]

I kinda Pride myself on using rope and the many knots I've learned over the years, so it wouldn't be for me. Good luck though.

[RangerZ]

As soon as I saw it I made one out of suspension line, without the shrink wrap. Then I simplified the idea by making it a round turn and clove hitches with a bowline on the other end.

I'm with the others, I don't hang things off my pack.


[Those of us who have been suspended by it know its called suspension line.]

[upstream]

Grapevine knot on a loop. I've seen this somewhere before, maybe in a climbing book. Not as neat as a jug sling.

[Malto]

No, I would not use this. no serious backpacker would ever have a full bottle of water swinging wildly off a pack. As others have said, hang at your own peril. If I were to hang, there are very simple knots that do the same job. Not sure why I would buy something that I can make myself. In fact, a week ago I made a similiar functioning device to hold an umbrella off my shoulder strap. Not hard to do, I had the materials and my version was lighter and easier to use. But other than that good luck in your endevour.

[Puddlefish]

I'm also a sailor, I like tying my own knots. It would drive me nuts having the knot hidden under a bit of shrink wrap, never being able to check on it for fraying or slippage. I know a lot of people who don't tie knots, and they tend to use cord locks and carabiners.

[Slo-go'en]

Yep, definitely the wrong market here. Not something a real backpacker would need, want or use.

[reefcroaker]

Thanks you all for your thoughts and opinions. I got some good takeaways and learned a few things about your passion!

damskipi, Thank you for the helpful comments. The things you point out are exactly the type of concerns I am unaware of when it comes to hiking and was hoping to learn more about here. As far as the carabiner, we do show later in the video how it's just as easy to attach it without one. Hadn't thought about the preppers... definitely something to consider!


MuddyWaters - Oh no you figured out the secret! But in all seriousness, there is a little bit more going on. I built several dozen before I settled on a design that I felt comfortable trusting my gear with. Can you make one yourself? Absolutely. Not for 50 cents. Buying the supplies retail (because what individual is going to need/want to purchase bulk quantities of these supplies?) it was costing me about $2-3 to build these for myself and my friends. We are offering them right now to backers of of campaign for $3-5 per unit. If I could have picked up a few of these for 5 bucks a pop at West Marine rather than building them myself, I probably would have! I've found this "doo-dad" to be quite useful in my "personal application and experience." Thank you for the speculation on how it might fare in yours.


SWODaddy, I was soliciting your thoughts and opinions and was entirely transparent about that (from the title of my post to its content). Based on the cost of raw materials compared to what I hope these will sell for, the DIY route might be cheaper if you don't value you time very highly.


rocketsocks; Everyone should have a handful of knots that they can tie blindfolded with one hand behind their back. Where I find the Cinch-N-Clinch to be most important is when I'm underway during a squall, heeling at 25 degrees with a wind chill below freezing. Tying knots with wet line and frozen fingers while hanging sideways off deck is not one of my favorite things. But with this, I can secure something quickly without even having to remove a pair of heavy gloves. Again, I wouldn't know whether there are any similar situations in hiking where this could be of use but was hoping this was something you all would shed some light on.


RangerZ, boaters love strapping anything and everything to the sides of our vessels, so to learn that hikers are wary of having things attached to their pack is a helpful takeaway. Thanks!

[4eyedbuzzard]

I'm with most of the others here. From a hiking/backpacking standpoint anything hanging loose and moving/bouncing around would be a distraction. If I do just tie or pin something on my pack, it is likely only socks to dry. If anything of more importance it must be secured with flat webbing and hardware and pulled tight. I'm sure others here can attest to finding a tent, pad, or other gear lost on the trail due to not being secured properly or being knocked off by an overhanging limb or something. 30 - 40 years ago when external frame packs were more common it was normal to secure a sleeping bag under the pack or a tent or sleeping pad above, but again, those in the know even back then tended to use webbing straps, and pulled the bag or tent very tight to the frame - and you rarely see this setup anymore anyway. The risk of losing a tent or pad or anything else miles back on the trail is just too great.

Damskipi's idea regarding marketing to preppers is interesting. They're off in their own little private Idaho and will buy a lot of stuff that most from other walks of life wouldn't consider, because they are prepping, for something... Your boating market deserves attention as you found these items useful in that setting. Handyman/tool/home and garden/DIY market would also be a possibility.

Climbers will very likely not be interested. Their lives depend upon rope and knots and securing gear. They are experts with knots and rope anyway, very picky about the type of rope used for any purpose, how and by whom any pre-made slings are manufactured, etc.

You state this item is patent pending. I think it's going to be tough to get a utility patent granted on it. It's just rope, known/existing knots, and shrink wrap - what is the inventive step, why is it non-obvious, or is it just skill in the art?

Overall it seems more like an invention/solution in search of problems. Established solutions already exist in the marketplace for all of the uses you showed in the video. Then, consider how quickly this will get knocked-offed if it proves successful in a test market. The knock-offs will literally be on the shelves before yours. It's not a difficult nor expensive product to duplicate - someone here made one already with scrap. It's an interesting little thing, and I kind of like it, but I don't honestly have any use for it. Just an honest assessment of why I think it's a tough one to sell. And therefore, a tough one to fund.